Thai Commerce Minister says govt needs 180 billion baht to pay rice farmers

[Thait Spot]

"The commerce minister begged the EC to understand the need of the government to pay farmers who are suffering from late payment."

Government speak for "we will lose all our votesrs"

"He said if the EC is “cruel” and rejects its request, the government a contingency plan to cope with."

The EC is cruel and horrid because it play by the rules. I will scream and scream - but screw them, we have some other devious scheme we can use

[Prbkk]

..a drop in the ocean relative to reserves ( not that I support the scheme as structured)

So why bother commenting?..........The fact is that this Government swore blind they had the money to pay the farmers, but the truth is they did not/have not, hence the panic to try and borrow $6 Billion, an amount that is not to be considered small. We were told by the same Ministry two weeks ago that the 'BAAC had the "liquidity" to pay the Farmers', or has everyone forgotten that blatant lie as well. The Government are desperate to divert all attention away from themselves in some wicked attempt to try and absolve themselves of their sins against the Thai people. Heads should roll.

Under the current situation everyone should really stop worrying about a Military coup, in fact it would be a blessing to have one, because the predicament Thailand now finds itself in is the stuff of revolution! Fill your cupboards with rice and canned fish folks!

Filling every cupboard with rice? That would solve the liquidity issue in a flash. Wouldn't go for the fish unless you have a cat or 2. the world is not going to end over this...there will be a negotiated solution in the next couple of weeks (IMHO)

[RubbaJohnny]

Psst

New marketing campaign from Land of Hubs LOH

Wanna buy some stale rotting rice special double price for falang

[Tatsujin]

..a drop in the ocean relative to reserves ( not that I support the scheme as structured)

So why bother commenting?..........The fact is that this Government swore blind they had the money to pay the farmers, but the truth is they did not/have not, hence the panic to try and borrow $6 Billion, an amount that is not to be considered small. We were told by the same Ministry two weeks ago that the 'BAAC had the "liquidity" to pay the Farmers', or has everyone forgotten that blatant lie as well. The Government are desperate to divert all attention away from themselves in some wicked attempt to try and absolve themselves of their sins against the Thai people. Heads should roll.

Under the current situation everyone should really stop worrying about a Military coup, in fact it would be a blessing to have one, because the predicament Thailand now finds itself in is the stuff of revolution! Fill your cupboards with rice and canned fish folks!

Filling every cupboard with rice? That would solve the liquidity issue in a flash. Wouldn't go for the fish unless you have a cat or 2. the world is not going to end over this...there will be a negotiated solution in the next couple of weeks (IMHO)

The world won't end, no, but neither will any of this be resolved in the next couple of weeks.

You've got a Govt blatantly lying about pretty much everything, the Police making things up also, and Army and Navy getting pissed off at them both. Violence is escalating and the Police seem uninterested to do anything about it, and in fact seem to be helping facilitate it.

The elections "might" just go ahead as planned but I doubt that also. If they do try to force them through, there's going to be more blood in the street.

At this point in time, whether the current Govt was elected with a "majority" or not, they've proven time and time again that they do nothing but blatantly lie, cheat and steal and most of them will be indicted for this. Time to step down, the Monarchy to choose an impartial interim Govt, and reforms made. Then this country might get back on track instead of heading down the road to anarchy.

It's going to get much worse before it gets any better if things don't change soon.

[Tatsujin]

Psst

New marketing campaign from Land of Hubs LOH

Wanna buy some stale rotting rice special double price for falang

Weren't TAT going to give a bag of Premium Quality Thai Rice to every visitor at one point?

[Smokemachine]

What is that guy talking?

Asking people to throw in money into the rice scheme while the corruption investigation is ongoing?

Still got the cheek to blame others when all the rice money has gone to somewhere else?

Ser Jok Jin Jin!!

[casualbiker]

..a drop in the ocean relative to reserves ( not that I support the scheme as structured)

So why bother commenting?..........The fact is that this Government swore blind they had the money to pay the farmers, but the truth is they did not/have not, hence the panic to try and borrow $6 Billion, an amount that is not to be considered small. We were told by the same Ministry two weeks ago that the 'BAAC had the "liquidity" to pay the Farmers', or has everyone forgotten that blatant lie as well. The Government are desperate to divert all attention away from themselves in some wicked attempt to try and absolve themselves of their sins against the Thai people. Heads should roll.

Under the current situation everyone should really stop worrying about a Military coup, in fact it would be a blessing to have one, because the predicament Thailand now finds itself in is the stuff of revolution! Fill your cupboards with rice and canned fish folks!

Filling every cupboard with rice? That would solve the liquidity issue in a flash. Wouldn't go for the fish unless you have a cat or 2. the world is not going to end over this...there will be a negotiated solution in the next couple of weeks (IMHO)

More Rodeo riding!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[RubbaJohnny]

Seriously Thailand has a unique opportunity to take the High moral ground.Feed the hungry.

The fact this relatively wealthy nation is still a beggar rather than donor says alot about compassion and application of the sufficiency economy.

The rice scheme to be wound down or administered by a non political agency e.g. UN

Of course no skims,scams or rake offs will ensure this fails.

In the long run if growing surplus rice does not provide necessary income, either diversification, or become productive in other areas. I doubt if young Thais want a wages rae to the bottom with Indian Vietnamese or Lao peasants.

Today very few natives pick crops in UK or USA because its too hard work for an obese urban welfare recipients.

Sadly low no-brain nations often find wars to distract young fit males from the failures of their fathers.

We will know when this a succesful economy when Thais go to Australia for pleasure and farmers daughters no longer service foreigners,

As a recurrent agrricultural policy it is madness and there are many other ways to boost rural income,productivity for example removing the money lenders midle men and illegal lotteries,usurers and gambling that are the curse of villages nationwide.Sinsod the chicken fight yabba scourge etc.

Fact 1 .See University of Queensland Video below in link

Published on 26 Dec 2013

Over the past six weeks the UN has reported food riots in Egypt, Yemen, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cote d'Ivoire, Mauritania, Mozambique and Senegal. In the worst case in Haiti, five people died and prime minister Jacques-Edouard Alexis was forced from office.

Rice shortages have led to Cambodia and Egypt banning rice exports, China imposing heavy export taxes and many other countries including Malaysia, Singapore, Sri Lanka and the Philippines begin stockpiling.

Manila has also asked fast-food multinationals such as McDonald's to serve half-portions of rice, while Pakistan and Russia have raised wheat export taxes by 35 per cent and 40 per cent respectively.

Other countries with new restrictions on grain exports include Brazil, Argentina and Vietnam. India has blocked export of all rice except premium basmati, while Guinea has banned the export of all foodstuffs.

According to the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the price of rice over the past 12 months has soared a staggering 122 per cent. For wheat, the increase has been 95 per cent, for soybeans 83 per cent and corn 66 per cent. The World Bank estimates that prices for all foods have risen 83 per cent in the past three years.

This week, UN food envoy Jean Ziegler blamed these price explosions on Wall Street, saying a herd of market traders, speculators and financial bandits had "turned wild and constructed a world of inequality and horror". But greed and opportunism on financial markets is only part of the story.

Food inflation is also about recent droughts in Australia and Russia; changing eating patterns in China and India, where the burgeoning middle classes want to eat more grain-fed meat and dairy products; the chronically weak US dollar; flawed alternative energy policies in the US and EU; and the blowout in the cost of fuel and fertiliser.

Above all else, food inflation is about the hunger of the poor, and if there's one anecdote that drives home the desperate suffering, it's the story of mothers in Haitian slums who have been feeding their children mud pies mixed with oil and sugar to try to make their hunger pangs go away.

"There's something really massively wrong when people are forced to eat mud," says Seton Hall University law professor and freedom from hunger activist Frank Pasquale. "The world simply cannot sit and watch this happen. People like (Indian economist) Amartya Sen might say there has never been a famine in a democracy but what we're seeing here could be a world first.

"I mean, we've had food riots in relatively well-ordered societies like Egypt and Malaysia. That tells us there could be a huge challenge just ahead."

Treasurer Wayne Swan was struck by the same realisation at the International Monetary Fund's recent meeting in Washington. Expecting conversations away from the formal agenda to revolve around the troubles in the US housing and credit markets, Swan was surprised to find food inflation the dominant topic.

When he sat next to Indian Finance Minister Shri Chidambaram at lunch on the final day, the subject was rice shortages, not Australian uranium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY7unqi2miE

[Prbkk]

..a drop in the ocean relative to reserves ( not that I support the scheme as structured)

So why bother commenting?..........The fact is that this Government swore blind they had the money to pay the farmers, but the truth is they did not/have not, hence the panic to try and borrow $6 Billion, an amount that is not to be considered small. We were told by the same Ministry two weeks ago that the 'BAAC had the "liquidity" to pay the Farmers', or has everyone forgotten that blatant lie as well. The Government are desperate to divert all attention away from themselves in some wicked attempt to try and absolve themselves of their sins against the Thai people. Heads should roll.

Under the current situation everyone should really stop worrying about a Military coup, in fact it would be a blessing to have one, because the predicament Thailand now finds itself in is the stuff of revolution! Fill your cupboards with rice and canned fish folks!

Filling every cupboard with rice? That would solve the liquidity issue in a flash. Wouldn't go for the fish unless you have a cat or 2. the world is not going to end over this...there will be a negotiated solution in the next couple of weeks (IMHO)

More Rodeo riding!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

yeah, they know when they are beat..so I'll give 'em a break

[scorecard]

Why didn't the government organise the money for payments BEFORE they called an election? It's not like they didn't know they would need it. A lot of it was due in October.

If they pay the farmers now, so close to Feb 2nd, it would be deemed as vote buying.

yes, damned if they do or don't. I think it has to be paid but the issue is politicized it could be difficult to negotiate. ..well, clearly is already

'Politicized' - what rubbish. The basic details of the current situation show:

- It's totally wrong

- A sever lack of any sort of planning

- Numerous and continuing blatant lies by many ministers

- A severe lack of professionalism

- A severe lack of morals

- A severe lack of even basic integrity to try to get the bank to use general depositors funds, with the possibility of causing a run on this and other Thai banks, and possibly causing a severe downgrade of Thailand's credit rating by the international credit rating agencies

- etc.

All of the above in your face. Where does the word politicized fit? It doesn't!

Edited January 21, 2014 by scorecard

[kevinsan]

How do you short rice futures?

[Sunisalom]

..a drop in the ocean relative to reserves ( not that I support the scheme as structured)

So you agree that reserves have also been raped, for once?

-mel.

[AleG]

"The commerce minister begged the EC to understand the need of the government to pay farmers who are suffering from late payment."

Government speak for "we will lose all our votesrs"

"He said if the EC is “cruel” and rejects its request, the government a contingency plan to cope with."

The EC is cruel and horrid because it play by the rules. I will scream and scream - but screw them, we have some other devious scheme we can use

If the EC is cruel for not paying the farmers... what about PTP for not paying the farmers in the months before the EC entered the picture?

PTP, respect your voters...

[cmiuc]

"Some where over the rainbow" Thai land going for Broke!

Maybe that Rainbow comes in the color of a red flag with a yellow star... they have money to thow around as long as its not in china...

[AleG]

Seriously Thailand has a unique opportunity to take the High moral ground.Feed the hungry.

The fact this relatively wealthy nation is still a beggar rather than donor says alot about compassion and application of the sufficiency economy.

The rice scheme to be wound down or administered by a non political agency e.g. UN

Of course no skims,scams or rake offs will ensure this fails.

In the long run if growing surplus rice does not provide necessary income, either diversification, or become productive in other areas. I doubt if young Thais want a wages rae to the bottom with Indian Vietnamese or Lao peasants.

Today very few natives pick crops in UK or USA because its too hard work for an obese urban welfare recipients.

Sadly low no-brain nations often find wars to distract young fit males from the failures of their fathers.

We will know when this a succesful economy when Thais go to Australia for pleasure and farmers daughters no longer service foreigners,

As a recurrent agrricultural policy it is madness and there are many other ways to boost rural income,productivity for example removing the money lenders midle men and illegal lotteries,usurers and gambling that are the curse of villages nationwide.Sinsod the chicken fight yabba scourge etc.

Fact 1 .See University of Queensland Video below in link

Published on 26 Dec 2013

Over the past six weeks the UN has reported food riots in Egypt, Yemen, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cote d'Ivoire, Mauritania, Mozambique and Senegal. In the worst case in Haiti, five people died and prime minister Jacques-Edouard Alexis was forced from office.

Rice shortages have led to Cambodia and Egypt banning rice exports, China imposing heavy export taxes and many other countries including Malaysia, Singapore, Sri Lanka and the Philippines begin stockpiling.

Manila has also asked fast-food multinationals such as McDonald's to serve half-portions of rice, while Pakistan and Russia have raised wheat export taxes by 35 per cent and 40 per cent respectively.

Other countries with new restrictions on grain exports include Brazil, Argentina and Vietnam. India has blocked export of all rice except premium basmati, while Guinea has banned the export of all foodstuffs.

According to the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the price of rice over the past 12 months has soared a staggering 122 per cent. For wheat, the increase has been 95 per cent, for soybeans 83 per cent and corn 66 per cent. The World Bank estimates that prices for all foods have risen 83 per cent in the past three years.

This week, UN food envoy Jean Ziegler blamed these price explosions on Wall Street, saying a herd of market traders, speculators and financial bandits had "turned wild and constructed a world of inequality and horror". But greed and opportunism on financial markets is only part of the story.

Food inflation is also about recent droughts in Australia and Russia; changing eating patterns in China and India, where the burgeoning middle classes want to eat more grain-fed meat and dairy products; the chronically weak US dollar; flawed alternative energy policies in the US and EU; and the blowout in the cost of fuel and fertiliser.

Above all else, food inflation is about the hunger of the poor, and if there's one anecdote that drives home the desperate suffering, it's the story of mothers in Haitian slums who have been feeding their children mud pies mixed with oil and sugar to try to make their hunger pangs go away.

"There's something really massively wrong when people are forced to eat mud," says Seton Hall University law professor and freedom from hunger activist Frank Pasquale. "The world simply cannot sit and watch this happen. People like (Indian economist) Amartya Sen might say there has never been a famine in a democracy but what we're seeing here could be a world first.

"I mean, we've had food riots in relatively well-ordered societies like Egypt and Malaysia. That tells us there could be a huge challenge just ahead."

Treasurer Wayne Swan was struck by the same realisation at the International Monetary Fund's recent meeting in Washington. Expecting conversations away from the formal agenda to revolve around the troubles in the US housing and credit markets, Swan was surprised to find food inflation the dominant topic.

When he sat next to Indian Finance Minister Shri Chidambaram at lunch on the final day, the subject was rice shortages, not Australian uranium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY7unqi2miE

Keeping in mind that the plan was to hoard rice to reduce the supply thus increasing the price (which of course would increase the food crisis) and also try and benefit from a global catastrophe to peddle their overpriced rice, I don't think any humanitarian thoughts ever passed through Thaksin's head, morals just don't get into it.

He'd sooner nail his ##ck to a tree and set the tree on fire than giving away "his" rice for free.

[cmiuc]

oh... this mornings TV article said there are 40,000 foreign illegals here... maybe they can pay for it... along with the thousands going to the borders of NE Thailand... that they are going to crack down on... ah... money falling out of the foriegners pockets at the border...

[Sunisalom]

oh... this mornings TV article said there are 40,000 foreign illegals here... maybe they can pay for it... along with the thousands going to the borders of NE Thailand... that they are going to crack down on... ah... money falling out of the foriegners pockets at the border...

You didn't get paid for last night?

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Obviously, the most important thing is that the farmers get paid for selling their rice. If it was a private company that purchased the rice, and the company defaulted as Yingluck's government had, they would be sued for damages. I'm glad to see that the farmers are now going to take legal action against the government.

Even without the inevitable corruption and fraudulent Chinese rice export agreements, this scheme was doomed for failure. Yingluck, and her administration, should have pulled the plug a long time ago on the scheme and provided quick payments to the farmers to alleviate their hardships.

The three economic factors that led to the failure of the rice scheme (ignoring the corruption issue):

1. Worldwide rice production is increasing. Improved technology has lifted countries such as China, India and Vietnam above Thailand in total rice exports.

2. Worldwide rice demand is declining, especially in the Philippines and Nigeria.

3. Thai farmers overproduced rice relying upon the price guaranteed by the rice pledging scheme.

So, while the market price was declining for rice, due to increased supply and decreased demand, the Thai government encouraged its farmers to overproduce and sell to the government. A recipe for catastrophe, so that even if there was no corruption in the scheme, it would have failed.

[Jeremy50]

Speak English and stop using acronyms. You people have a serious issue with commanding the English language.

Oh dear. Should be written: You people have a serious problem with your command of the English Language. PS, nobody is speaking here.

[RubbaJohnny]

Large long time distortion of markets has been tried and usually with predictable results.

Communist dual price economies (USSR Cuba etc) EU wine lakes butter Mouhtains and of course UK Corn Laws,you don't need a crystal ball IF you read the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws

Hungry,angry agro-culturalist descending from the wastes of Esan

Palmy Oily rubbahubbers + southern insurgents from the nether regions

I am gald I do not live in Bangkok.

[Robby nz]

And from page 4 of todays news :

RT@tulsathit: Ex TDRI head Ammar Siamwalla: I've seen nothing as bad as rice scheme. Nothing but lies and boasting. RT @kanatpn pic.twitter.com/gdSCvvwvPT

And :

RT@Juarawee:BAAC executives said they won’t lend govt depositors’ money of 1.3 hundred billion baht to pay farmers.

And :

Drought crisis looms as off-season rice exceeds target

BANGKOK, 21 January 2014 (NNT) – The Royal Irrigation Department (RID) has voiced concerns over severe water shortages in the Chao Phraya River Basin as the amount of off-season rice being cultivated has exceeded the target by a large margin.

According to the RID’s Water Watch and Monitoring System for Warning Center, the combined amount of water stored at all major dams within the Chao Phraya River Basin now stands at 13.61 billion cubic meters, approximately 55% of the total capacity. These dams consist of the Bhumibol Dam in Tak province, Sirikit Dam in Uttaradit, Khwae Noi Bamrung Daen Dam in Phitsanulok and Pa Sak Jolasid Dam in Lop Buri.

Out of the usable portion of 6.91 billion cubic meters, the RID plans to discharge 5.3 billion cubic meters to the residents of the Central Plains for the current drought season, which runs from November 2013 to April 2014. However, over 2.65 billion cubic meters or 50% has already been used thus far.

To make the matter worse, the RID reported that the cultivation of off-season crops across the Chao Phraya River Basin this drought season had covered an area of 7.66 million rai, over 7.4 million of which was being used to grow rice, surpassing the initially planned area by 56%. Therefore, the RID is asking for cooperation from agriculturists to refrain from planting more crops during this time as doing so would increase the possibility of a severe water shortage in the region.


-- NNT 2014-01-21

Gets worse all the time.

[Rosco911]

Perfect time for the elite to start purchasing land from the cash strapped farmers who have debt to pay.

Very sad.

[kurtgruen]

And from page 4 of todays news :

RT@tulsathit: Ex TDRI head Ammar Siamwalla: I've seen nothing as bad as rice scheme. Nothing but lies and boasting. RT @kanatpn pic.twitter.com/gdSCvvwvPT

And :

RT@Juarawee:BAAC executives said they won’t lend govt depositors’ money of 1.3 hundred billion baht to pay farmers.

And :

Drought crisis looms as off-season rice exceeds target

BANGKOK, 21 January 2014 (NNT) – The Royal Irrigation Department (RID) has voiced concerns over severe water shortages in the Chao Phraya River Basin as the amount of off-season rice being cultivated has exceeded the target by a large margin.

According to the RID’s Water Watch and Monitoring System for Warning Center, the combined amount of water stored at all major dams within the Chao Phraya River Basin now stands at 13.61 billion cubic meters, approximately 55% of the total capacity. These dams consist of the Bhumibol Dam in Tak province, Sirikit Dam in Uttaradit, Khwae Noi Bamrung Daen Dam in Phitsanulok and Pa Sak Jolasid Dam in Lop Buri.

Out of the usable portion of 6.91 billion cubic meters, the RID plans to discharge 5.3 billion cubic meters to the residents of the Central Plains for the current drought season, which runs from November 2013 to April 2014. However, over 2.65 billion cubic meters or 50% has already been used thus far.

To make the matter worse, the RID reported that the cultivation of off-season crops across the Chao Phraya River Basin this drought season had covered an area of 7.66 million rai, over 7.4 million of which was being used to grow rice, surpassing the initially planned area by 56%. Therefore, the RID is asking for cooperation from agriculturists to refrain from planting more crops during this time as doing so would increase the possibility of a severe water shortage in the region.

-- NNT 2014-01-21

Gets worse all the time.

Do I hear the Fat Lady sing?

[yasorab]

Well what a surprise !! This Government is, was and always has been inept at everything they have done. False promises about school kids computers that never arrived, paying grossly inflated prices to farmers for rice that is now too expensive to sell ! The list goes on and on. Even a junior school kid would know that if you buy something for 'lets say' 100 Baht and sell it for 70 Baht that is not a good business prospect. And they expect to be re-elected in February ! What a mess Taksin's people have made of this Country. Very much a time to change the whole way this place is run I think.

[Robby nz]

Perfect time for the elite to start purchasing land from the cash strapped farmers who have debt to pay.

Perfect time for the PT elite and their agents to start purchasing land from the cash strapped farmers who have debt to pay.

I suspect they thought of that long time ago.

[Baerboxer]

..a drop in the ocean relative to reserves ( not that I support the scheme as structured)

Maybe they'd like to show the EC where all the money paid out so far has gone. Some 480 billion unaccounted for. (Openly and transparently that is).

Hardly a drop in the ocean if you think how much good could have been done with that amount of money for the people of Thailand.

The government would get more sympathy if they told the truth - they're broke, been robbing Peter to pay Paul and have creamed off far to much enriching themselves and their cronies. Obviously the can't admit this so look to blame anyone else and simply lie as usual.

Still, as you said on another thread, Yingluck has got it all in hand.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Baerboxer

[mijan24]

Thai Commerce Minister says govt needs 180 billion baht to pay rice farmers

If they behave, they can borrow it from my hi-so chinese wife.

You may have hit the nail right on the head 180 or 130 who cares lets round it out to 200 small change for CHINA they have bought the USA and now what an opportunity to land a plum piece of real estate - here they come brush up on your Chinese you will need it.

Some will dismiss this as claptrap but just cast your mind back a few years to when the Chinese government sent their teachers here "Free of Charge" to teach chinese not so silly these "market gardeners" aye

[fleeing]

Why didn't the government organise the money for payments BEFORE they called an election? It's not like they didn't know they would need it. A lot of it was due in October.

If they pay the farmers now, so close to Feb 2nd, it would be deemed as vote buying.

Yes. So why didn't the organise it BEFORE they called an election?

one would guess that they didn't realise there would be an issue with trying to pay while in caretaker mode..speculation

Your guess may be correct. But if so this caretaker government is shockingly incompetent and should surely step down.

That's without giving any credence to the charges of corruption and vote manipulation (in parliament) that some have already been charged with.

[kurtgruen]

Why didn't the government organise the money for payments BEFORE they called an election? It's not like they didn't know they would need it. A lot of it was due in October.

Exactly!

These are the pictures, that are circulating on Facebook, in Thailand...

[DLock]

The PTP have created a Ponzi scheme of massive proportions...and this loan will only fix short term problems.

What about next harvest, or the harvest after that?

...and what about when the scam ends and there is no longer any demand for Thai rice? The Thai farmers will suffer more than they are now.

The PTP must go...but even then, the problems still persist.

I feel for the Farmers. Although they voted for a scam that was too good to be true...they deserve to be paid as promised.