Hmmm... Having Second Thoughts About BMW After Reading This Article

[RubberSideDown]

^^

I want performance combined with reliability- I want my bike to start every time, I don't want to hear new, worrying noises at regular intervals, and I want everything to line up and run perfectly from the factory, especially if I'm spending about twice (in LOS) what the bike costs in other countries.

Unless it's a classic or a highly-modified machine (like a race bike), I don't think there's any 'cool factor' in hoping your bike holds together.

You mentioned price not being a big factor- I would probably try to come up with the additional money for the 899 Panigale if I wanted Italian exotica (the one I saw at sat on looked great).

[ktm jeff]

Yes RSD the Panigale 899 (IMO) would be an even better choice than a Benelli TNT.You make a valid point about reliability , noises or even recall issues , but ive found my Italian bikes to be just as good as my Japanese ones , although im well on top of the servicing. Some people still perceive Italian as problematic (just as some dislike "Chinese" products -without factoring in the price).I can only give my experience of my bikes , and the reasons i bought them.I do accept some finer details on my "almost hand-built , race bikes for the road" needs improving. Some people think all Japanese bikes are reliable , which they arent (RE: Honda). BTW when i said your Kawasaki was more common than any Benelli , i meant common , as in more sold/popular - not common , as in cheap/common!. I assume/hope no offence was taken.

[RubberSideDown]

Offense? Are you kidding? This forum is for shooting the sh!t about bikes- I might react to some of your points with a counterpoint, but nothing you posted was in any way offensive.

I'm still mulling over the HP4- to me, it's the best current sportbike for the road (though probably not the track with the DDC suspension)- what's keeping me from a final decision is potential reliability issues- this is why I like Japanese bikes- they rarely give me trouble- in over twenty years of owning many, I've had so few problems it's tough for me to consider a switch.

[ll2]

Yes RSD the Panigale 899 (IMO) would be an even better choice than a Benelli TNT.You make a valid point about reliability , noises or even recall issues , but ive found my Italian bikes to be just as good as my Japanese ones , although im well on top of the servicing. Some people still perceive Italian as problematic (just as some dislike "Chinese" products -without factoring in the price).I can only give my experience of my bikes , and the reasons i bought them.I do accept some finer details on my "almost hand-built , race bikes for the road" needs improving. Some people think all Japanese bikes are reliable , which they arent (RE: Honda). BTW when i said your Kawasaki was more common than any Benelli , i meant common , as in more sold/popular - not common , as in cheap/common!. I assume/hope no offence was taken.

i use honda bikes for long years and no problems.

i felt pity for all my crying friends with italian bikes constantly have problems. and all my friends with japanese bikes have very less problems.

this is my experience too!

italian bikes are sexy and nice but with a price to pay - both high price and reliability.

i dont even want to talk about a chinese italian bike!

[ktm jeff]

RSD i think the HP4 will be reliable , and a terrific machine. Dont understand why it faired so badly in the reliability /satisfaction report!.Havent heard of any significant problems. Personally , i take these reports with a large pinch of salt , other-wise id have never bought my first Italian bike!.If you think the DDC suspension may give problems on track and you prefer Japanese , then have a look at the new Kawasaki ZX 10 R super bike.By all accounts an absolute stunning machine(proberly the best 1000cc superbike out there)with ,184 BHP but a very advanced traction/anti-wheelie control system that is very tune-able and does not mess with the riding experience that some systems do.As your already a big K fan , its worth a look/test-ride , yes?.

[mania]

then have a look at the new Kawasaki ZX 10 R super bike.By all accounts an absolute stunning machine

.....As your already a big K fan , its worth a look/test-ride , yes?.

afaik ZX10R is not officially available in Thailand. I imagine someone like Red Baron could get one?

But then your really up against no mechanic trained or experienced with it or its new gadgets

Edited February 24, 2014 by mania

[RubberSideDown]

^

RB gets US-spec ZX-10Rs, which are down about 20hp to the European version (due to emissions requirements) and require an ECU flash to bring them up to par. It's a nice bike, but holds no real interest for me as I already have a very similar electronics package in my 14R (which doesn't even approach the BMW system), and I want to try the current cutting edge.

I don't plan on riding on the track much- I brought up the DDC suspension (which is actually a major selling point for me) as I think it's the best current street suspension, in contrast to Italian superbikes, which tend to be built more for the track and less for the street.

The fact it's a very complicated bike is what has me concerned- I can see service possibly being a problem, and I'm still mulling it over.

[ktm jeff]

I dont think there will be any reliability issues with the BMW , but you need to be confident there is a 100% suitable mechanic available for any work you cant do yourself(without invalidating the warranty).I didnt know the ZX 10 wasnt officially available yet - are Kawasaki planning on bringing it over?.

[RubberSideDown]

^

Kawasaki had huge problems a few years ago when the brought in the restricted model and sold it as top-spec- I don't think they have any plans to bring it in again in the near future- it's not coming in 2014 at any rate.

[ll2]

^

RB gets US-spec ZX-10Rs, which are down about 20hp to the European version (due to emissions requirements) and require an ECU flash to bring them up to par. It's a nice bike, but holds no real interest for me as I already have a very similar electronics package in my 14R (which doesn't even approach the BMW system), and I want to try the current cutting edge.

I don't plan on riding on the track much- I brought up the DDC suspension (which is actually a major selling point for me) as I think it's the best current street suspension, in contrast to Italian superbikes, which tend to be built more for the track and less for the street.

The fact it's a very complicated bike is what has me concerned- I can see service possibly being a problem, and I'm still mulling it over.

DDC suspension is top notch. Be it in the street, highway or on the track, the fact that it will adjust itself automatically is really confidence inspiring. It makes the bike firm or comfy in milliseconds!

i dont think so you will ever regret your decision on buying a bmw hp4. You dont need to think to much about as long as you can afford one.

it is one of the best bikes in the market globally now!

[newf]

^

RB gets US-spec ZX-10Rs, which are down about 20hp to the European version (due to emissions requirements) and require an ECU flash to bring them up to par. It's a nice bike, but holds no real interest for me as I already have a very similar electronics package in my 14R (which doesn't even approach the BMW system), and I want to try the current cutting edge.

I don't plan on riding on the track much- I brought up the DDC suspension (which is actually a major selling point for me) as I think it's the best current street suspension, in contrast to Italian superbikes, which tend to be built more for the track and less for the street.

The fact it's a very complicated bike is what has me concerned- I can see service possibly being a problem, and I'm still mulling it over.

My experience so far with the BMW is that as long as you have some electronic knowledge it's easier to work on then any other bike (CBR1000, R6, ER6, GSXR) that i've owned. Just buy the diagonistic tool GS-911 and get yourself the service manual and any issues are easily found because everything is electronic. For the DDC, I've heard it handles trackday pace very well but conversional race suspension will be better for race pace.

As for the US spec zx10, the ECU can be changed to full spec very easy.

[RubberSideDown]

^

I'm actually more concerned with something physically failing or burning out, and having to deal with replacement parts and service- with the DDC suspension being so new and uncommon (though that will change- it's an option on the new S1000R naked bike and should be offered on the S1000RR as soon as the HP4 is discontinued) the techs might not have a handle on it yet.

I've read pretty much everything on the S1000RR forum, and I realize it's not terribly likely, but a friend recently had some issues with his BMW automobile, and it took forever to get it right.

I'm starting to think I'd be better off going with a Japanese literbike- the Kawi would be on the list. I believe the problem is that I've had too much time to think about it, and I'm starting to feel like dropping 1.4m + a couple hundred in accessories might be a little silly in light of the fact the bike is so much better than my skills, and maybe it's biting off more than I can chew.

[ktm jeff]

RSD - bike so much better than your skills! I think that may apply to most people with a bike over 600cc LOL. Heres an idea - if you fancy track riding (and with good instruction/guidance) theres no better way to improve your skills - not that their lacking - why not get a track bike (a 600 will be fine depending on the track - Buriam?), just for racing , not road legal , and spend a year or two pushing the/your limits in relative safety (you will be amazed what you can do on a track)- no traffic/potholes/u-turning trucks etc , then the bikes your interested in will have proved themselves and there will be more people familiar with DDC suspension and with a better stock of spares. You wont hold back as much on a track bike as they are meant to be raced/crashed and are not your pride and joy road bike.May be a far safer option than pushing too much on the road seeing the driving standards of others. PS - disclaimer : dont blame me if you become hooked on track riding. It can get expensive. VERY.

[RubberSideDown]

I've done my share of track days in the US- I don't want a track bike as a closed-course doesn't interest me as much these days (though I'd happily do a few instructional days per year, even on my 14R)- I want a great sportbike that's geared more for the street, and I like the the idea of the 'bleeding edge', but I'm not so sure how happy I'll be actually living with it.

I only brought up the track earlier in reference to the DDC suspension- due to the consistency of a decent track, a properly set-up race suspension geared toward a particular track would be a better choice than a self-adjusting suspension made for varying road surfaces (as newf mentioned).

I can ride pretty well and I'm no newbie, and I've owned smaller bikes- I just want to make sure I'm not buying something I won't be able to really ring out (I don't treat the street like a track), even though it would be great for posing and bragging rights.

[mania]

I just want to make sure I'm not buying something I won't be able to really ring out

I think if street riding that rules out the HP4

Although I am sure you would appreciate the technology & sheer quickness

even below rung out levels

[RubberSideDown]

I just want to make sure I'm not buying something I won't be able to really ring out

I think if street riding that rules out the HP4

Although I am sure you would appreciate the technology & sheer quickness

even below rung out levels

This is true.

I can use the acceleration of the 14R almost anytime I want, even from a low speed, but I try to be careful around corners as I never know what I'll find in one (sand, oil, a buffalo, etc)- I'm also thinking about the new S1000R- at first I dismissed it, but the reviews have been stellar and it would be better for me ergonomically (though, again, there might be a quality issue)

It's also difficult explaining to the wife why I need a second pricey motorcycle...

I need to go look at the bike again- maybe next week if they have it on the floor- I've got 50K down on it, and will need to make a decision soon.

[ktm jeff]

RE : the wife/boss wont know you have a new/another bike , if you buy the next one the same colour/color as the ZX 1400, HA HA.Now i have more of an idea what you will be using the bike for , how about a naked bike - proper wheelie machines and great fun at lower speeds (and girls love wheelies - real knicker melters)!(Joke , i know your married).If this appeals , i would also look at Triumph and Ducati (and now im thinking Benelli - buts thats just me , and theres no hope). Would sit well next to the ZX.

[ll2]

I just want to make sure I'm not buying something I won't be able to really ring out

I think if street riding that rules out the HP4

Although I am sure you would appreciate the technology & sheer quickness

even below rung out levels

This is true.

I can use the acceleration of the 14R almost anytime I want, even from a low speed, but I try to be careful around corners as I never know what I'll find in one (sand, oil, a buffalo, etc)- I'm also thinking about the new S1000R- at first I dismissed it, but the reviews have been stellar and it would be better for me ergonomically (though, again, there might be a quality issue)

It's also difficult explaining to the wife why I need a second pricey motorcycle...

I need to go look at the bike again- maybe next week if they have it on the floor- I've got 50K down on it, and will need to make a decision soon.

yep, HP4 is a track monster and a high speed machine.

a standard spec BMW s1000rr might be a better idea as reviews say good things about its ease of use in the city plus it is 400 k cheaper which is easier to explain the wife like you are compromising

Riding a BMW HP4 on the potholes and metro constructions in Bangkok or shitty highways is like throwing strawberries to the pigs besides pity for that expensive and sensitive components on the bike mostly modified for smooth track use.

BMW s1000r naked is also a good bike if you can live with the looks of course - it looks like it is punched from the face and have swollen eyes.

But, it is giving a lot torque low down and mid ranges than an s1000rr so possibly acceleration will be better and it is easier to use around the town.

I am sure 630 k thb honda cbr1000rr 20th anniversary special additions makes a lot of sense for you now as i feel bad not buying it for that great price now but another part of mine is happy not buying it is just plain excessive for my needs especially for my city commutes and rides and had doubts about derestricting it. Anyway, it is 830 k thb now:(

But, BMW s1000rr, what a bike man!

Super cool looking plus super fast and looks superb quality. Brings lots of prestige and bragging right to the owner as default and no one ever mistaken your bike with another supersport.

Edited February 26, 2014 by ll2

[mania]

New 2015 is as beautiful as ever...

[JonnyF]

Not 100% sure about the new design, I think I preferred the old exhaust and front end. But 6 extra hp and it's lost a bit of weight as well so no doubt it's going to be a great bike.

Wonder when they'll hit the Thai dealerships?

[mania]

Agree exhaust is not as nice

But overall I think this & the Panigale ( both 1199 & 899 ) are the

top of the chain

http://www.gizmag.com/2015-bmw-s1000rr-s-1000-rr-cruise-control/34052/pictures#4

Edited October 2, 2014 by mania

[Nickymaster]

Not 100% sure about the new design, I think I preferred the old exhaust and front end. But 6 extra hp and it's lost a bit of weight as well so no doubt it's going to be a great bike.

Wonder when they'll hit the Thai dealerships?

Never really got used to its asymmetrical front headlight design. Exhaust will be swapped for a sexy akra on a bike like this I suppose.

[mania]

Just saw a large gallery here

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2015-bmw-s1000rr-mega-gallery/#comment-413593

Like mentioned Exhaust is not good but has the Akro option

but now I see the taillight is also odd at best

Edited October 2, 2014 by mania

[ll2]

It gets ugly and that pipe is horrible.

But technically, it gets a lot better.

Dream bike to have:)