Advocates of separatism warned by army chief

[edwinchester]

Thailand's constitution, Section 1: Thailand is one and indivisible Kingdom.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And constitutions can be rewritten.

[mrtoad]

The army is a big part of why Thailand is in this mess in the first place. The reason this movement exists in the first place is because people in the North / NE are desperate to be able to elect governments without having them removed by coups (like the one Prayuth participated in in 2006, or the impending one that he has repeatedly "refused to rule out").

And now Prayuth continues to drag the country towards civil war by refusing to support negotiations with the "separatists" (who made it clear in their speeches that they are only asking for autonomy as opposed to full independence). If he cracks down on the Red Shirts, then many moderates who would have only wanted decentralisation will instead think "in for a penny, in for a pound" and start supporting full-blown secession.

Because of Prayuth's blindness in his drive to support yellow groups to bring dictatorship to the country, Thailand is missing what may well be its last chance to avoid following a Syria-like path.

To be honest, irrespective or Red or Yellow, I don't think Prayuth can be criticized. So far he has been pretty diplomatic, he is in a very delicate position, dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't. If anyone comes out of this whole mess with any credibility , it is him, IMO.

The politicians Red, Yellow and whatever have a lot of growing up to do,

[mrtoad]

Thailand's constitution, Section 1: Thailand is one and indivisible Kingdom.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And constitutions can be rewritten.

Constantly.

[kratiam]

Shows how pathetic this government is. Red traitors want to secede and form their republic and raise their own army and Poo and her brother's cronies are all quiet about it. It takes the General to speak up against these people. Well done sir!

Maybe the 'cronies' are not all worked up, like you, because they know talk is cheap. And a revolution isn't.

But, if ranting and raving (and sucking up to the General) makes you feel relevant...

Then, have a nice day.

You two deserve each other....pathetiic

[ianf]

If there is one person who needs to be removed completely from attempts to influence the political situation in Thailand, it is this very unpleasant, arrogant man. Exactly who is his boss?

I presume you are referring to Thaksin?

[edwinchester]

Thinking differently is illegal now is it?

No, but advocating separatism is...

What is illegal about merely supporting secession?

[ianf]

The army is a big part of why Thailand is in this mess in the first place. The reason this movement exists in the first place is because people in the North / NE are desperate to be able to elect governments without having them removed by coups (like the one Prayuth participated in in 2006, or the impending one that he has repeatedly "refused to rule out").

And now Prayuth continues to drag the country towards civil war by refusing to support negotiations with the "separatists" (who made it clear in their speeches that they are only asking for autonomy as opposed to full independence). If he cracks down on the Red Shirts, then many moderates who would have only wanted decentralisation will instead think "in for a penny, in for a pound" and start supporting full-blown secession.

Because of Prayuth's blindness in his drive to support yellow groups to bring dictatorship to the country, Thailand is missing what may well be its last chance to avoid following a Syria-like path.

What a strange analysis!

[Loles]

That's clear as the sun. The army doesn't want to fight in two fronts, enough for them South.

[jennywren]

Thinking differently is illegal now is it?

He may be privy to intelligence that points to the group going past the 'Thinking' stage. There has been some real strong dialogue coming out of the pro separatist group. It would have any military commander anywhere in the world concerned.

there is a way, and he seems to be seriously trying to take it this time. I do belive he does not want to get involved. He'd have couped by now.

The protection of the protesters also keeps the violence below a level where he can be pressured to come in and coup. So UDD accuse him of sideing with them, I think he maybe protecting them in order to give the Army breathing space.

There is a big change going on now, and many on the elite side do not see it possible to cling onto power for ever. They have most of the power already due to the constitution and the laws they left in place.

[bigbamboo]

There is nothing wrong with talking about secession. The Scots have been doing it in the UK for years, so have the Welsh. Even Cornwall has it's own dreams of independence.

Of course what is often overlooked is that whilst the separatists often fail to muster a majority in favour of independence (as with the Scots) the rest of the country is actually in favour of getting shot of them (as with the Scots).

The same may well be true in Thailand. Whilst there may be many people from the north who support breaking away there may be even more from the south who'd like to see them go.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Other than a few extremists which both sides seem to have, the talk is more of maintaining and upholding Democracy in the Country.

The clear message to the Courts and Army is... Do not try and Coup us again. Ever.

They're reporting 56 battallions have been assigned by Prayuth to guard Bangkok. = 16800 troops. Far more than the 500-2000 PDRC we've been seeing. Far more than is needed to protect the 2000 PDRC. Weapons are the wrong type too, fixed heavy machine gun implacements are for mowing down large numbers of people indescriminately, bunkers for defending against a militia attack. Intimidation more than anything.

IMHO, better that you don't take this mob into Bangkok. There's no purpose to it, you could surround the independent agencies, but those are just buildings. You equally just ignore their decisions. Civil disobedience* cannot be shot at!

Khon Khen below don't have an estimate yet.

Udon Thani was 20-30k people

* added, you know down here in the south, a lot of council ran the elections anyway. They closed offices and so on, but actually, the party lists were done in secret, and elections could have gone ahead if PDRC hadn't also also captured the ballots.

Civil disobedience in this case, is actually obeying the laws of the land when the powers-that-be wanted those laws subverted! It sort of shows you how illegitimate the PDRCs lot are.

Edited March 2, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[rreddin]

Thinking differently is illegal now is it?

Apparently it is. And that is very worrying.

However, the General has already lost before he gets started. This was a non-issue in the North. It was no more than a wild dream by a very few with practically no popular or political support. Left alone it would have fizzled out. However, it could develop its own momentum, and not only in the former Lanna Kingdom, if the General makes good on his threat to take legal action. It is called the law of unintended consequences.

It might be prudent for the military to quickly find a face saving way out before this non-issue gets a chance to become serious enough to drive political agenda. I will credit the general with being smart enough to have realised this and already be searching for an acceptable way out.

[moe666]

"The government did not want people to know about their ethnicity, they wanted a unified, centralised, Thailand; it's the policy of the government to teach one country, one flag. We used to see signs saying 'This area is free from local dialect.' We were supposed to speak Central Thai only. Not many people in the north were even aware of their cultural background, they didn't know that they were Tai Daeng, Tai Dam, Tai Laos or Tai Lue."

from The Lanna Deception (http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=2727)

The Suthepistas have opened a very old and very sore wound - well done, now reap the consequences.

Well it didn't work as many people in Northern Thailand speak Northern Thai and Tai Yai. My girlfriend is from the Mae Hong Song area and speaks all three central Thai, Thai Yai, and Northern Thai and there is a Lanna Cultural Center In Chiang Mai.

Edited March 2, 2014 by moe666

[nong38]

Thinking differently is illegal now is it?

Depends how you interpret what Prayuth said. He was talking about people who want to break the country up which would likely be done through a civil war as I cannot see the 2 or more sides agreeing to anything in Thailand. Prayuth does not want a civil war and dont think Thailand does, just some extreme people who have their own agenda.

Having differing views is ok but splitting the country up is another issue altogether different view.

I have time for this man, he is calm and says the right things and has Thailand's best interests at heart.

[MobileContent]

The army is great in meddling in politics also they should just secure the border which after almost 10 years they have not been able to do in the deep South of Thailand. They can't even secure peace in the Deep South, so it shows that they sit on a fat budget and surely don't spend the money wisely. I am sure their budget is even higher as what Yingluck spends on the farmer in her rice scam.

Thailand looks like it is becoming a failed state or at least will be unstable for the years to come thanks to the family from Surat Thani and Chiang Mai.

Will the North or Isaan split from Thailand followed by all those provinces that voted the red shirts in? Surely it will not happen but it's time for the Bangkok elite and the thousands of generals that get paid for doing nothing to accept the vote of the people's otherwise this problem will be around in the next 10 years and Thailand will suffer.

[seajae]

Other than a few extremists which both sides seem to have, the talk is more of maintaining and upholding Democracy in the Country.

The clear message to the Courts and Army is... Do not try and Coup us again. Ever.

actually what these idots are saying is. 'we will only agree with the courts if they do what we want, anyone not doing what we want will be either shot or blown up". They are total morons as are those that support them. Pcad are protesting legally, these buffoons want to start a new state plus their own armed force which is against the law(especially inciting it), suggest you try reading the constitution before putting your feet in your mouth.

[zydeco]

I still say all this talk of a great Northern Rebellion is nonsense. Again, few people except for a handful of nutbars are willing to die for the Shins. And most people, poor as they may be, still have too much to lose in any separatist movement. And, frankly, I simply cannot imagine what the Thai version of Valley Forge would look like. But I know the great mass of Thais are unwilling to go through anything like that. It. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. This is mostly some Red Farang fantasy.

[Dogmatix]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..let them go there own way thaksin will drop them like a stone..he wants all not just a northern dust bowl where all there is to eat is rice..carry on kwai brains..

All there is to eat is rotten rice.

[Smiles]

Yingluck where are you?

Seems like she is running out of LUCK lately!

[SamMunich]

I guess this separatism trump card is one of the very last trump cards they have up their sleeves. It smells of desperation, red shirt syle.

And I also wonder, if this is - again - only being discussed among the top echelon of the red shirts. The interest and intentions of the regular red shirts and their leaders are rarely identical nowadays...

[seajae]

And I would argue their right to promote the idea of secession despite disagreeing with it.
Until they try to force secession of the north I personally see nothing illegal with discussion or desire.

ok by your logic, a group gets together and starts talking about how they are going to blow up certain buildings and kill as many people as possible, going by you the police etc should do absolutely nothing until it happens, now that is really showing a lack of intelligence and why planning a secession is illegal, suggest you check the law, this is not your country and you have no idea what the laws are obviously but lets just go with your gut feeling

Edited March 2, 2014 by seajae

[Crushdepth]

This 'Lanna' rubbish is just posturing ahead of various deadlines, investigations and court cases likely to knock large holes in the government. Ramping up the rhetoric ahead of negotiations using (as usual) 'independent' puppet groups to do the dirty work.

It's no coincidence this has emerged *now*.

Sent from the Peoples Democratic Republic of Lannawatra using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Mobile App

Edited March 2, 2014 by Crushdepth

[The Deerhunter]

Could someone please tell me the difference between clear acts of sedition by the PDRC and acts advocating secession by some of the UDD? Aren't they both equally treasonous and unconstitutional? Except, of course, when seen through the glasses of the self-righteous!

Simple. One is legally defined as lawful demonstration and is being copied by your red mates outside the NAAC. The other action is legally defined as sedition and rigidly prosecuted in most countries. They are even (ridiculously) trying to recruit an army!!! If you cannot tell the difference maybe you shouldn't be posting on grown up's websites. ( His reply to this will be a doozey.)

[ThailandNoob]

The army is a big part of why Thailand is in this mess in the first place. The reason this movement exists in the first place is because people in the North / NE are desperate to be able to elect governments without having them removed by coups (like the one Prayuth participated in in 2006, or the impending one that he has repeatedly "refused to rule out").

And now Prayuth continues to drag the country towards civil war by refusing to support negotiations with the "separatists" (who made it clear in their speeches that they are only asking for autonomy as opposed to full independence). If he cracks down on the Red Shirts, then many moderates who would have only wanted decentralisation will instead think "in for a penny, in for a pound" and start supporting full-blown secession.

Because of Prayuth's blindness in his drive to support yellow groups to bring dictatorship to the country, Thailand is missing what may well be its last chance to avoid following a Syria-like path.

Well that is one way of looking at it.

And now Prayuth continues to drag the country towards civil war by refusing to support negotiations with the "separatists" (who made it clear in their speeches that they are only asking for autonomy as opposed to full independence). If he cracks down on the Red Shirts, then many moderates who would have only wanted decentralisation will instead think "in for a penny, in for a pound" and start supporting full-blown secession

On the other hand the moderates might say thank you for putting an end to those nuts.

By the way if they have autonomy why are they trying to create an army?

Just a question.

The speakers who Prayuth is referring to made it clear that they only wanted to keep "Lanna-Isan" within Thailand as a whole. If we define "moderates" as people who would be happy with decentralisation as opposed to secession, then these people are moderates.

But by being lumped together with those that do advocate actual secession, then the moderates are going to feel that they might as well become extremists.

And to answer your question, I can see a pretty obvious reason. They fear that Prayuth is going to send in the troops against them merely for wanting autonomy. The Reds mistrust him deeply due to his role in the 2006 coup and the 2010 crackdown, viewing him as a trigger happy pineapple soldier (green on the outside, yellow on the inside), itching for an excuse to launch another coup.

[Dogmatix]

I still say all this talk of a great Northern Rebellion is nonsense. Again, few people except for a handful of nutbars are willing to die for the Shins. And most people, poor as they may be, still have too much to lose in any separatist movement. And, frankly, I simply cannot imagine what the Thai version of Valley Forge would look like. But I know the great mass of Thais are unwilling to go through anything like that. It. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. This is mostly some Red Farang fantasy.

Actually the trendy lefty Australian Thai studies academics who post on New Mandala used to advocate a Peoples Democratic Republic of Lanna when Abhisit was PM. Now that there beloved red shirts are openly pushing for it, they are silent.

It is interesting to think how the partition would be done. All the Northerners and Isaan people working below the Mason Dixie line would try to claim Thai nationality and there would also be an uncontrollable influx of others coming in to try to claim it. Only fanatic red buffalo brains would want to be Lannanians. Later on they would realise there was no money for a rice pledging scheme, tablets for their kids, free healthcare, road building, hi-speed rail, flood management or the pooyai baan's salary.

[Baerboxer]

Thinking differently is illegal now is it?

Where does it say that?

Is says inciting people to support an illegal breakaway republic is illegal. Go and try that in other countries and see what happens to you.

[JAG]

Up to now the General has been pictured in uniform. Now just what looks like an open necked shirt. I wonder why?

Combat suit in the wash? Dress down Friday? Long weekend? Urgent business on the golf course? I doubt if it had any significance.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rijb]

I still say all this talk of a great Northern Rebellion is nonsense. Again, few people except for a handful of nutbars are willing to die for the Shins. And most people, poor as they may be, still have too much to lose in any separatist movement. And, frankly, I simply cannot imagine what the Thai version of Valley Forge would look like. But I know the great mass of Thais are unwilling to go through anything like that. It. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. This is mostly some Red Farang fantasy.

While not having access to "the great mass of Thais" that you enjoy, I also think the separatist movement is just hot air.

However, if you think the separatist talk is about "some Red Farang fantasy", then you are more looney than they are!

[seajae]

The army is a big part of why Thailand is in this mess in the first place. The reason this movement exists in the first place is because people in the North / NE are desperate to be able to elect governments without having them removed by coups (like the one Prayuth participated in in 2006, or the impending one that he has repeatedly "refused to rule out").

And now Prayuth continues to drag the country towards civil war by refusing to support negotiations with the "separatists" (who made it clear in their speeches that they are only asking for autonomy as opposed to full independence). If he cracks down on the Red Shirts, then many moderates who would have only wanted decentralisation will instead think "in for a penny, in for a pound" and start supporting full-blown secession.

Because of Prayuth's blindness in his drive to support yellow groups to bring dictatorship to the country, Thailand is missing what may well be its last chance to avoid following a Syria-like path.

Well that is one way of looking at it.

And now Prayuth continues to drag the country towards civil war by refusing to support negotiations with the "separatists" (who made it clear in their speeches that they are only asking for autonomy as opposed to full independence). If he cracks down on the Red Shirts, then many moderates who would have only wanted decentralisation will instead think "in for a penny, in for a pound" and start supporting full-blown secession

On the other hand the moderates might say thank you for putting an end to those nuts.

By the way if they have autonomy why are they trying to create an army?

Just a question.

The speakers who Prayuth is referring to made it clear that they only wanted to keep "Lanna-Isan" within Thailand as a whole. If we define "moderates" as people who would be happy with decentralisation as opposed to secession, then these people are moderates.

But by being lumped together with those that do advocate actual secession, then the moderates are going to feel that they might as well become extremists.

And to answer your question, I can see a pretty obvious reason. They fear that Prayuth is going to send in the troops against them merely for wanting autonomy. The Reds mistrust him deeply due to his role in the 2006 coup and the 2010 crackdown, viewing him as a trigger happy pineapple soldier (green on the outside, yellow on the inside), itching for an excuse to launch another coup.

you mean unlike the reds who set fire to and blew up Bangkok as well as started the shooting etc, yes, we can all see how much you really thought about this. All those advocating this sucession crap really need to engage their brains before putting their mouths into gear as it is illegal under the Thailand constitutiuon and that includes talking about setting it up .

Edited March 2, 2014 by seajae

[zydeco]

I still say all this talk of a great Northern Rebellion is nonsense. Again, few people except for a handful of nutbars are willing to die for the Shins. And most people, poor as they may be, still have too much to lose in any separatist movement. And, frankly, I simply cannot imagine what the Thai version of Valley Forge would look like. But I know the great mass of Thais are unwilling to go through anything like that. It. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. This is mostly some Red Farang fantasy.

While not having access to "the great mass of Thais" that you enjoy, I also think the separatist movement is just hot air.

However, if you think the separatist talk is about "some Red Farang fantasy", then you are more looney than they are!

Mere bar talk. People who just want more goodies don't risk the goodies they have to get more. And getting more goodies is what all of this is about, except for the Shin financed nutbars.