Village Justice?

[Crossy]

Hi Guys.

Wasn't sure where to put this, but since it involves 'livestock' I thought here.

On Saturday evening / Sunday morning a dog got into our garden area, it's pretty secure and dog proof but this fairly small pooch got in.

Within a few minutes it had killed six geese, mum and dad died protecting their goslings which were then dismembered, the creature then moved on to the chooks, killing two roosters and half a dozen hens including one girl who was on eggs, the only poultry to escape unscathed were the guinea fowl who roost on the power lines.

We know where the dog lives, it's not a soi dog it is 'owned'.

Wifey contacted the village head whose daughter just happens to be married to her son He came round to survey the damage and agreed there was a problem.

Anyway, the whole village knows that the dog entered 'Baan Farang', but of course nobody will lay claim to said creature.

Grrr.

Anyway, my question. Where do I stand should I catch said animal on our property in future? Can I capture it, what would be the position if it met an 'accident' with Wifey's razor sharp machete?

[I Like Thai]

Depends on who owns the dog.

[Crossy]

Depends on who owns the dog.

'Owner' is a normal village member (shack residence), in this instance we're the ones with the 'connection' (minor, but still a connection).

I'm not looking for compensation, certainly no begging for forgiveness from the owner (a size-11 toe 'tector would meet his mush if he tried that), I just want the beast out of circulation, permanently!

[Skint]

Issues like this are usually resolved with payment from the dog owner

[Crossy]

Issues like this are usually resolved with payment from the dog owner

The 'owner' is (obviously) denying that his dog would do this (wouldn't you?)!

I'm more looking at catching it red handed (mouthed?) and what I can actually do to it when I do.

The means of ingress it used has been closed by the way (but is easily re-opened if a honey-trap is in order).

[thepool]

If no one admits to owning the beast it must be feral.

Dispatch it !

Edited April 7, 2014 by thepool

[cdmtdm]

catch it and take it for a long ride , to another village, at least 30 to 40 km away .....release it and say nothing ... they will deal with it as it will have no owner ...

[fatdrunkandstupid]

What is the dollar (THB) value of your loss?

[MBChai]

Marked as read...

[Crossy]

Marked as read...

Thank-you for your clever, useful and insightful response!

[cornishcarlos]

I sympathize with your feelings but just wondering about the living arrangements for your poultry !!

You say the Guineas escaped untouched as they roost on the power lines, which leads me to believe this occurred at night ?

Wouldn't you house your birds in secure pens at night ??

All my pens are snake proof and mutt proof, plus I will never give birds to anyone that doesn't have adequate pens for them.

The dog is just being a dog, up to you to protect your livestock.

If it happened during the day when the birds were free ranging, then shoot the bugger..

[Crossy]

What is the dollar (THB) value of your loss?

Probably about 10k Baht, but that's not the point, like I noted earlier I'm not looking for compensation, I want the beast out of circulation before it kills someone's livelihood.

The geese were my grand daughters pets, the gander was nearly 9 years old, all show and not enough go

[Thaddeus]

Generally speaking, once a dog has tasted blood, it is hooked, so there is a very good chance it will do it again.

Your choice is a tough one, poison it yourself now, or wait, if it does do it again I doubt the other villagers will show any compassion.

[dave_boo]

Up where we live there is NO question what happens. Often, as suggested by the OP, it's simply a machete but occasionally you'll here the odd shot ring out followed by a lot of whimpering (and occasionally a second shot). Nobody bats an eye. If you are willing to swallow the loss, you will get no complaints from the owner if their dog is killed on YOUR family's land as not confronting the owner does not cause loss of face.

Using a machete could be hazardous to your health, but failing having a better way (and posion is not better because you do not know what else you could hurt), could be the only way to keep him away from you and yours.

[IsaanAussie]

Lost some ten piglets to a pack of village dogs some time back. Apparently our "local law" says you have to catch them in the act before you can exact revenge. The norm in our village is to lay baits indiscriminately. Strangely little is said or done even if half the village dogs are suddenly gone.

Realistically? Improve your fencing etc., not much else will help.

[Crossy]

Cornishcarlos and IsaanAussie, comments on security well received, yes, this was a night attack.

Those who have been to our place will know that we have a 2m wall around all the property and water on nearly 4 sides (ok the wall is 1m on the main canal side), there are very few opportunities for ingress that we don't know about. The animals also live in a 'secure' area within the outer perimeter, chooks have a house but they don't have a closed door at night (tried that once, didn't sleep, Rooo [yes his name], made too much noise).

But, the creature in question found the chink in the armour (there is always one). It even got into the cage where the girl was on eggs, I have trouble opening that door sometimes

We have closed the chink he found, but most of the other villagers who have a few chooks for eggs have nothing like the enclosure we do, why it chose us I don't know.

Since it is 99.9% certain that it will try again I want to know what I can legally do when I find it on my (OK the wife's') property. Puyai Baan is 100% on our side, but like IA notes, you have to catch it in the act Even the (heartbreaking) footage from our security cameras is not enough.

I will NOT lay indiscriminate poison, too many pets around.

[Showbags]

Shoot the mongrel then hang it on the owners front gate.

[BritManToo]

Having delt with a problem like this before, you have two three choices.

1. Stop keeping poultry. Dogs like this will repeat attack again and again, nothing will stop them.

2. Kill the dog.

3. Buy a vicious dog that you train to kill other dogs but now fowl.

Sorry, but that's about it.

Edited April 7, 2014 by BritManToo

[Canada]

I understand that you know which dog it is from your opening post.

I'd demand satisfaction from the owner, either in cash for the birds, or a dead dog.

[cornishcarlos]

Crossy, I believe from reading several of your other posts (good posts btw) that you are an electrician or at least a very knowledgeable DIYer.

Therefore, why don't you rig up some form of electric perimeter protection, just switch it on at night once all your little ones are safely in bed ??

My Grandad did something similar to try an stop badgers digging up his lawn, but he wired his fence to the mains.. He then left little notes all around the place in case he popped his clogs during the night

[Chicken George]

Actually having a doģ of your own may help.. I stopped keeping and breeding chickens because of ferral cats.. lost a fortune. House chickens seem to be the only ones that thrieve here and feed themseves mostly.. miss my own eggs big time

[curtklay]

I think Cornishcarlos' suggestion of an electric fence is a good one, and should be a piece of cake for you, Crossy.

You might also try the new "Ask a Lawyer" feature about the legality of whacking the dog.

[tingtong]

Our dog killed chicken in the "neighborhood"; we live on a farm, and neither our, nor any near by farms has perimeter fence, maybe some barbed wire if any.

We paid voluntarily for the loss...

I am sorry to say, but if I were you, and the dog is unclaimed, Buddha save that dog crossing my way again, not to mention our land border...just say it wouldnt have the luck to be traded for a plastic bowl.

Someone was referring cost of damage...

Sometimes it is not the monetary amount of the loss only, it is about the the way you lose it. Suddenly it is no ones dog? Then it matters just as much as the rats trying to eat our rice, and whatever else they find...many dies in the traps, and i dont have a second thought about that for a moment! That dog is a pest, deserve the same threatment!

[bina]

crossy , as an owner of pet chickens and expensive thai gai shon, i sympethize however i dont think methods of dispatching dogs is appropriate here.

in most countries, if u catch a dog in your livestock doing damage, first time money , second time you can 'take care of the animal'...

here on kibbutz all dogs run free, and my coop is not well built, and if the dogs get in, well, my problem since we arent considered agri area but residential.

however, hubby , being thai, has a different method. a kept a huge metal pole piece/pipe in the area, and sevarl dogs have almost got it on their heads. one fox got it on the skull but managed to leave with rananan (the hen) in his mouth. most kibbutz dogs are very afraid of my hsuband and most have learned not to come near our coops (and the gai shon are now in a thai compund, not roaming our back yard). a good chicken dog would do well. or a better more secure coop.

unfortunately once a dog has enjoyed the fun of chasing squawking flapping chickens, its hard to stop them (its not the blood its the chase).

my own pups dared to eat several thai chicks (saw the legs hanging out of lhasa puppy mouths) and they get ot from hubby. not my preferred method of training but , his chicks.

[tingtongfarang]

catch it and take it for a long ride , to another village, at least 30 to 40 km away .....release it and say nothing ... they will deal with it as it will have no owner ...

40k aint far enough...tried that,

My problem did,nt involve chickens...a stray dog moved in with me and all was well till some familys dog about 1km away came on heat, he destroyed their front door trying to get in the house at the bitch on heat,

I tried locking him up but he just damaged my door then jumped off a terrace with a drop of 6 meters and chewed the families door down again, i took him 40k and he came back and did the same again,

A trip of 70k in the car and he really looked like he needed a pee

Edited April 7, 2014 by tingtongfarang

[Jotham79]

I understand your quandary, what might be done by a local may not go over well for a farang and this can be different depending on the village. A lot will have to do with your position in the village and how you are viewed. It sounds like you have video so if you can catch the offending dog on your property then kill it. Since no one claims ownership, nothing will be said without the dogs new owner taking responsibility for your loss. Indiscriminate poisoning of non target dogs could come back on you. I have chickens which could easily be gotten by a determined pooch, but in our village anyone could seriously hurt or kill a dog for even chasing their chickens. Almost everyone has chickens and none of us would tolerate a bad dog. No one has lost a chicken to a dog in several years (but a few to pythons) and then my wife's aunt set out poison that killed half the village dogs. It is amazing what a 70 year old woman can get away with.

[I Like Thai]

crossy , as an owner of pet chickens and expensive thai gai shon, i sympethize however i dont think methods of dispatching dogs is appropriate here.

in most countries, if u catch a dog in your livestock doing damage, first time money , second time you can 'take care of the animal'...

here on kibbutz all dogs run free, and my coop is not well built, and if the dogs get in, well, my problem since we arent considered agri area but residential.

however, hubby , being thai, has a different method. a kept a huge metal pole piece/pipe in the area, and sevarl dogs have almost got it on their heads. one fox got it on the skull but managed to leave with rananan (the hen) in his mouth. most kibbutz dogs are very afraid of my hsuband and most have learned not to come near our coops (and the gai shon are now in a thai compund, not roaming our back yard). a good chicken dog would do well. or a better more secure coop.

unfortunately once a dog has enjoyed the fun of chasing squawking flapping chickens, its hard to stop them (its not the blood its the chase).

my own pups dared to eat several thai chicks (saw the legs hanging out of lhasa puppy mouths) and they get ot from hubby. not my preferred method of training but , his chicks.

When the dogs are pups, place them in the chicken coup with a hen sitting on eggs. The hen will give the dogs a thrashing that they will never forget. Take them out and you will never have a problem with those dogs chasing chickens.

[cdmtdm]

the idea of setting baits is a stupid , lazy and cruel suggestion ..... anyone who has had a dog, that has taken a bait set for some other creature ,will testify its a terrible death .... dont do it ...

[cooked]

Money. If you take ฿30 or 40 000.- off the dog's owner. he won't want his dog to do it again. You can always give the money to the temple.

[stickylies]

OP: could you kill a dog with a machete? brrr...