Passport check on the road

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed another abusive reply to a post. This must stop or a warning will be given. Please lets keep it cival.

[MikeandDow]

MikeandDow, on 19 Apr 2014 - 09:38, said:

Mangkhut, on 19 Apr 2014 - 09:22, said:

MikeandDow, on 18 Apr 2014 - 19:41, said:

There is no law stating that you must carry your passport,the law states that you must provide ID with a photo within a ‘reasonable’ time frame, so a DL would be ok

According to the Lawyer of this forum is certainly is.....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712871-carrying-original-passport/

That is his opinion, it is not based on LAW, there is no Thai LAW which states that you must carry your passport.

Try telling this to the Police Officer who is requesting to have a look at your passport.

read post 114, and I have no problem standing up for my rights.

[Maestro]

On 20/04/2014 at 7:01 AM, MikeandDow said:

read post 114, and I have no problem standing up for my rights.

Paraphrasing your rights and the police officer's rights from post #114:

You have the right not to carry your passport with you at all times.

A law enforcement officer has the right to detain you on suspicion of being illegally in Thailand until you can prove that you are legally in the country. For a specified limited period he can detain you without a warrant, after that he needs to get a court order to detain you further if necessary for the investigation.

[bina]

Maestro it seems that u have stidied in rabbinical court...coming from a country where u must carry your id card often a dl will do as well but if they want to be sticklers u can be detained...and if u r an alien than u must also have pp on person even though regular police r not border police so stands to reason thailand is similar. Just a shame pp r so bulky

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Coppernicussing]

Not happening in my area. No one checking ferang at all. But I live in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. All you ferengs are cool to cross our borders. Checking you for ID is banned by our current government.

[nookiebear]

After reading the comments by various members who are stating, they never will carry their passports with them,....as you don't need to....I know the Thai law etc,etc!!!!

It will be good to see what one of them would do if they actually encounter this highly mobile Korat based Police crew who despite having a Thai driving licence will still want to look at YOUR Passport.

[maphraw]

I drive upcountry quite a bit and only on a few occasions have I been asked for my passport. When asked, I show them my Thai drivers license and they always wave me through the check point with no questions asked. This is not to say you don't need to carry your passport with you.

[JDGRUEN]

Not happening in my area. No one checking ferang at all. But I live in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. All you ferengs are cool to cross our borders. Checking you for ID is banned by our current government.

Thailand is an amazing contrast with other countries when it comes to immigration and visas, etc. especially when compared to the U.S.A. Right now despite the acknowledgment by Federal elected officials and bureaucrats that there are eleven million illegal aliens in the U.S. the number is actually closer to being beyond twenty million. In the past five years the enforcement of U.S. Border entry laws and Visa overstay laws has gone to near zero. I only wish the United States had the same type of laws as Thailand when it comes to immigration and illegal immigration and they were enforced. In the U.S. an American citizen is more likely to be detained by police for traffic infractions than are illegal aliens who may have no ID allowing them entry or stay in the U.S. - or may have fake ones. We live in an Alice in Wonderland 'up is down and down is up' - down the rabbit hole world in America. I feel more like an American citizen in Thailand than I do in my home state of Texas surrounded by millions of Spanish speaking people - a large part of which refuse to speak English. If there are TVF members out there that are looking for an easier place to stay ... even work and own property just fly to Mexico City ... work your way north. Don a little make up - speak only rehearsed Spanish phrases - sneak across the Arizona border and you are good to go. Go file for benefits speaking only Spanish or maybe a little very broken English. Go to California get a real drivers license. File Federal income tax returns and get a refund based on no earnings... Actually as an American I would be happy to be stopped by the Thai BiB and would proudly show my real American Passport with Visa Stamps...

[harrry]

Maestro you have included and summarised the law regarding the Immigration act and passports very well. Could you also look at and check the laws relating to carrying of the Official ID Card by people in Thailand and see if this does not apply to non citizens who could be required to substitute a passport? Generally laws apply to all people in a country unless otherwise specified.

[culicine]

Try section 13 of the Immigration_Act_EN.pdf and a few others that come close.

There is no law stating that you must carry your passport,the law states that you must provide ID with a photo within a ‘reasonable’ time frame, so a DL would be ok

That is not exactly correct. Any other ID you have than the passport does not have any proof that you are legally in the country. The immigration act states that if you don't have that you can be considered to be in the country illegally until such time you can show it.

Most embassies recognize the need for having your passport as an ID. That is why they make exceptions (in example the UK) when applying for a new one so that you can keep it.

please point me to the law stating you have to carry a passport ???? there is no such law, this has been posted many times in the past go look it up.

try again no where does it state that you are required to carry your passport go look at the past posts on this subject also go look at the lawyers forum YOU do not have to carry you passport end of story.

You do like to post in an arrogant and confrontational style, don't you.

I can't refer you to the Criminal Code either but I am happy to be guided by this entry from the GOV.UK website:-

Local laws and customs

Don’t become involved with drugs of any kind. Possession of even very small quantities can lead to imprisonment. If you are found guilty of being in possession of marijuana you are likely to receive a long prison sentence and a heavy fine. Amphetamines and ecstasy are regarded as Class A drugs and possession or trafficking carries the same penalties as heroin. If you are found guilty of being in possession of 20 grams of a Class A drug at a point of exit from Thailand you will probably be sentenced to death.

It’s a criminal offence to make critical or defamatory comments about the King or other members of the Royal family in Thailand. This is known as Lèse Majesté and is punishable by a prison sentence of 3 to 15 years, or longer. Foreign nationals have been convicted of Lèse Majesté.

It is illegal to import more than 200 cigarettes per person into Thailand and this is enforced at customs at the airport on arrival; those who exceed the limit may be fined ten times the value of the items and face confiscation of the cigarettes.

By law, you must carry your passport with you at all times in Thailand. Tourists have been arrested because they were unable to produce their passport on request. Make sure you complete the next of kin details section in the back of your passport.

Personally, I have no intention of asking a highway policeman to show me the relevant legal reference before showing him my passport.

TOURISTS have been arrested. What about the rest of us? One would think a valid work permit would also suffice, as a valid passport is required to get a work permit. I can tell you I never carry my passport anywhere. I'd rather deal with the police at that time rather than risk losing my passport or having it stolen. And how many of us report to the police when we leave our province for more than 24 hours? More stupid rules.

And do police have the power to ask to see a passport, and act on it, or only immigration officials? In the OP's case, it sounded like a crackdown to shake money out of tourists. I would suspect 95% of foreigners living here rarely carry their passport on them.

[Old Croc]

Saw this on a tourist information site "Know Phuket" Sums it up for me.

Passports

All people in Thailand are required to carry a recognised form of ID. For most foreign visitors, this will mean their passport. It is not really practicable to carry your passport at all times and most people do not do it. In normal circumstances, it will be very unusual for the police to ask to see your passport. If you can show some other form of ID, such as an international driving license, this may suffice. Some people carry a photocopy of their passport photo page and entry stamp page.

We recommend you store your passport in a safe place such as the hotel safe. The likelihood of having problems because you are not carrying your passport is less than having problems because you are carrying your passport and it gets lost or damaged.

[Maestro]

...And do police have the power to ask to see a passport, and act on it, or only immigration officials? In the OP's case, it sounded like a crackdown to shake money out of tourists...

Yes, police officers have the power and the right to ask to see a foreigner's passport.

The case mentioned by the OP looks to me like a field training exercise.

[Maestro]

I drive upcountry quite a bit and only on a few occasions have I been asked for my passport. When asked, I show them my Thai drivers license and they always wave me through the check point with no questions asked. This is not to say you don't need to carry your passport with you.

Not every time a police officer asks a foreigner for his passport does he really mean passport, but it is easier for him to say "passport" than "an identification document with your photo" and it probably has been his experience that most foreigners use a passport to identify themselves. Unless the officer has been assigned to check whether foreigners are illegally in Thailand a passport is not the only document that may serve the purpose of his identity check.

There may be times when a passport is in fact be useless for the purpose of a police check, for example when the assignment is to check for drivers without a valid driving licence.

[djayz]

I was stopped by Immigration and the police on the main BKK/Korat motorway approx. 1 km before The Mall in Korat last August/September. Friendly and professional Immigration Officer, checked my passport, wanted to know where I was going and then bid me farewell.

[Mencken]

Some of you are so hilarious. Your Thai is so fantastic that you are going to debate finer points of Thai law with some street cop.

You do what gets you by here, not what is technically legal or makes sense.

I live in Bangkok and even a trip more than walking distance, I take my pp. I also have a us drivers lic, ppid card (# not same). Cops dint understand that stuff, they want a pp and inpart will want to be checking if you are here legally. Just makes sense. Wow what bad advice.

I esp carry my pp into tourist areas like Chatachak or near Sukhumvhit.

Doing visa runs to Aran, many minivan stops, looking for Lao, Khmer overstayers. Never even a glace, but I do take out my pp and not sit there like a rube. On buses to from south, looking for Burmese. Only had my pp seriously looked at once in many years.

Yeah, so don't carry a pp. Hope you have someone at home to deliver it to you at the police station. I'm sure if police need to escort you to your place its all drama and $$. I guarantee.

Wow, such strident, bad advice.

Yes, a THAI drivers lic even if not driving would be fine (imo)*

Edited April 21, 2014 by Mencken

[bkkjames]

Some of you are so hilarious. Your Thai is so fantastic that you are going to debate finer points of Thai law with some street cop.

You do what gets you by here, not what is technically legal or makes sense.

I live in Bangkok and even a trip more than walking distance, I take my pp. I also have a us drivers lic, ppid card (# not same). Cops dint understand that stuff, they want a pp and inpart will want to be checking if you are here legally. Just makes sense. Wow what bad advice.

I esp carry my pp into tourist areas like Chatachak or near Sukhumvhit.

Doing visa runs to Aran, many minivan stops, looking for Lao, Khmer overstayers. Never even a glace, but I do take out my pp and not sit there like a rube. On buses to from south, looking for Burmese. Only had my pp seriously looked at once in many years.

Yeah, so don't carry a pp. Hope you have someone at home to deliver it to you at the police station. I'm sure if police need to escort you to your place its all drama and $$. I guarantee.

Wow, such strident, bad advice.

Yes, a THAI drivers lic even if not driving would be fine (imo)*

I carry mine and my wp with me during weekdays for obvious reasons. I don't carry either on weekends. Had my wallet taken off me a few years back near pantip - glad it wasn't my pp. What's easier, getting someone to retrieve it from home or replacing it?

Have been stopped a few times over the years on Sukhumvit in my social days (long past)...never carried my pp but produced tax ID, Thai Health Insurance thingy, drivers license.

[robblok]

Some of you are so hilarious. Your Thai is so fantastic that you are going to debate finer points of Thai law with some street cop.

You do what gets you by here, not what is technically legal or makes sense.

I live in Bangkok and even a trip more than walking distance, I take my pp. I also have a us drivers lic, ppid card (# not same). Cops dint understand that stuff, they want a pp and inpart will want to be checking if you are here legally. Just makes sense. Wow what bad advice.

I esp carry my pp into tourist areas like Chatachak or near Sukhumvhit.

Doing visa runs to Aran, many minivan stops, looking for Lao, Khmer overstayers. Never even a glace, but I do take out my pp and not sit there like a rube. On buses to from south, looking for Burmese. Only had my pp seriously looked at once in many years.

Yeah, so don't carry a pp. Hope you have someone at home to deliver it to you at the police station. I'm sure if police need to escort you to your place its all drama and $$. I guarantee.

Wow, such strident, bad advice.

Yes, a THAI drivers lic even if not driving would be fine (imo)*

I carry mine and my wp with me during weekdays for obvious reasons. I don't carry either on weekends. Had my wallet taken off me a few years back near pantip - glad it wasn't my pp. What's easier, getting someone to retrieve it from home or replacing it?

Have been stopped a few times over the years on Sukhumvit in my social days (long past)...never carried my pp but produced tax ID, Thai Health Insurance thingy, drivers license.

James,

That is the point that i made before its easier to send someone for it then to replace a passport. I have scans on the phone and a drivers license with me (thai) If that is not enough so be it but I rather keep my passport safe. I might have a problem but in in all my time I have not had a single problem with cops and my drivers license. I know that is not always the case but prefer it this way.

As for debating with cops, they are always right they have guns.

[Mencken]

Valid point although I don't carry my pp in my pocket.

You know what, after all these years, I'm changing my position on this (being married and having someone to get the pp has much to do with it though).

Sold! I'm going to laminate my visa/pp and copy the tm.

I'd be sitting in the pokey till ten pm or later by time wife got home from work, grabbed the pp and came after me.

[Crossy]

I do carry my passport and work permit at all times when working, they ride around in my backpack along with my laptop and other work related items.

At weekends they stay safely at home except when I'm on a long trip away, when the backpack comes with me anyway.

When out and about in BKK (no late nights mind) I carry only my Thai and UK licences, my phone does have scans of the relevant pages of both passport and work permit, but more for hassle reduced replacement when lost than as a form of ID.

I've never been asked for ID when on foot. When driving the Thai licence is usually enough to keep the cop happy, next comes the vehicle registration and insurance (both in my name), I have never been asked for my passport.

Famous last words I expect, bound to get stopped this evening.

[Sutty]

Realy cant see what all the hype is simple carry your passport at all times sure will still get fined no doubt but rather 200 to 500 than locked up.

[IMA_FARANG]

As I reported before, this often happens if you do a run to the Cambodian border from Bangkok.

Normally it is the police doing a vehicle check, but if foreigners are in

the van there is often an immigration officer with them and he or she will

then look at the foreigner's visas

[tgeezer]

It is of some interest to enquire on matters of identification but the part missing is The Registration of Aliens Act it seems to me. Identification most likely requires a legal document.  

 That is certainly an Identity Card for Thai citizens, there may well be other acceptable documents but those would be listed in another Act probably. 

The legal document which the act stipulates that every foreigner must have is a Passport or a Residents Certificate and if you carry one of those then you are safe as houses from the Identification point of view. 

By safe as houses I mean that there is no opportunity given to any official to take advantage of your situation. 

I am surprised at item 4, I have never in all my years, not had a “permission to stay until stamp” in my passport. I carry a photocopy of my passport and the page with that stamp I consider the most important. 

I am taking a chance by not carrying my passport but I have never been asked to prove my status casually and when I expect to encounter authority, I usually take my passport with me. 

So, as I say it is interesting to speculate on laws but important to remember that if you are not doing anything unacceptable they are only a technicality. 

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

It is of some interest to enquire on matters of identification but the part missing is The Registration of Aliens Act it seems to me. Identification most likely requires a legal document.  

 That is certainly an Identity Card for Thai citizens, there may well be other acceptable documents but those would be listed in another Act probably. 

The legal document which the act stipulates that every foreigner must have is a Passport or a Residents Certificate and if you carry one of those then you are safe as houses from the Identification point of view. 

By safe as houses I mean that there is no opportunity given to any official to take advantage of your situation. 

I am surprised at item 4, I have never in all my years, not had a “permission to stay until stamp” in my passport. I carry a photocopy of my passport and the page with that stamp I consider the most important. 

I am taking a chance by not carrying my passport but I have never been asked to prove my status casually and when I expect to encounter authority, I usually take my passport with me. 

So, as I say it is interesting to speculate on laws but important to remember that if you are not doing anything unacceptable they are only a technicality. 

Interesting! I wonder whether we can finally put to bed the seemingly endless debates which have raged on here over the years about the basis of the legal obligation on us to carry our passports with us at all times, in view of what you have said.

 

For ease and reference, an unofficial translation of the 1950 Act to which you have referred can be downloaded from:

 

http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/outsitedata/outsite21/file/Alien_Registration_Act,_B.E._2493_(1950).pdf

 

Section 17 appears to be the relevant provision. Although it refers to an "identity certificate", I suspect that, in practice, it means our passports in most (if not all) cases, despite the definition contained in section 4.

 

And I wonder whether section 12 might be the original legal basis of the TM28 and TM30 requirements which are being enforced with increasing zeal and vigour these days?

Edited January 24, 2018 by OJAS

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, OJAS said:

nteresting! I wonder whether we can finally put to bed the seemingly endless debates which have raged on here over the years about the basis of the legal obligation on us to carry our passports with us at all times, in view of what you have said.

Well this almost four year old one is now ended. Topic