Thai-born British citizen accused of lese majeste by her own parents

[marcosss]

I don't understand why people compare Thai law, culture & custom to British or American or any other. If your in Thailand as an expat, you either accept the way they choose to do things, or if you find it so unpalatable, you should pack your bags and go back to where you came from. Simple really.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[baboon]

I don't understand why people compare Thai law, culture & custom to British or American or any other. If your in Thailand as an expat, you either accept the way they choose to do things, or if you find it so unpalatable, you should pack your bags and go back to where you came from. Simple really.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What is wrong with making such comparisons? It is a forum after all.

As for the 'if you don't like it, go home' part, well, that is a two way street.

[marcosss]

Making the comparisons, expecting the Thais to accommodate the norms of another culture is a pointless exercise. Why should they changed to suit a bunch of winning fringe of temporary immigrants. Sure make a comparison, but don't whine about the way they choose to run their country. Again I say, if people find it so intolerable, they should leave.

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[Morch]

Making the comparisons, expecting the Thais to accommodate the norms of another culture is a pointless exercise. Why should they changed to suit a bunch of winning fringe of temporary immigrants. Sure make a comparison, but don't whine about the way they choose to run their country. Again I say, if people find it so intolerable, they should leave.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually the other way around - seems like Thai authorities expect Thai rules to apply in the UK.

There are quite a few Thais which aren't too happy with the current LM laws - do you think they ought to leave the country

as well?

[Thai at Heart]

Her parents are getting attacked from people in Thailand, due to her actions. basically the parents are protecting themselves. we dont know what threats they have had against them but im pretty sure its ugly. some of these people can get fanatical. sad all round

Exactly. What a horrible, ungrateful daughter! That's what you get when you westernize people, you get horrible, arrogant, selfish people that defame everyone no matter who it hurts because of so called "freedom of speech". Freedom to not care about others and be completely full of oneself... that's what it really is.

Do you find your uniform uncomfortable?

[marcosss]

Ah, you mean like the Americans extradition of UK citizens for hacking, or going after an Australian for releasing leaked diplomatic communique. Why should the Thai authorities not expect to be able to do the same for a breach of their respective laws in cyberspace?

As for the Thais that are not happy about the status quo, that is for them to deal with & ultimately decide. I have no issue with the Thais doing what they want in THEIR COUNTRY. I do have a problem it seems with the opinions of some expats who see themselves as coming from a superior culture and wanting for the trappings of that culture while in Thailand. If the Thais want to initiate change, that is exclusively their prerogative, for us as guests of the country, to bitch & moan about the way that their culture operates makes the place sound like an imperialist boys club. Comments like "if they were my parents...." only shows how little some in this place understand the custom & culture of the country. I'm sure that if a group of temporary immigrants in the in your home country made constant hostile remarks about its government and culture, they to would be given the opportunity to leave.

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[jayboy]

However, Rose isn't out of the woods just yet, the Thai police and foreign ministry are joining forces to arrest Rose.

"Sek Wannamethee, Director-General of the Department of Information of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told journalists on Thursday that the foreign ministry, the Royal Thai Police and the Office of the Attorney General are currently working on legal provisions to bring Chatwadee Amornpat, aka Rose, back from London to face lese majeste charges in Thailand for insulting the Thai royal family on Facebook and YouTube.

Sek Wannamethi said Thailand has an extradition treaty with the United Kingdom, but Thai officials need to look into the details of the treaty, as Ms Amornpat has British nationality, before any further action is taken.

The Royal Thai Embassy in London, in the meantime, will cooperate by verifying the addresses of Ms Amornpat and other lese majeste offenders in the United Kingdom."

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=53a2b1f2be0470b7598b456c#.U6L3iLEVeSp

Sounds like they're making this one of their top priorities.

They can make it whatever priority they wish, not even a remote chance of this happening.

Perhaps not officially, but remember that the UK has a lot of vested interests in Thailand, including commercial and as allied countries.

I am not suggesting anything illegal here, but underhanded agreements can be made behind closed doors between Governments and this woman could receive an unofficial warning to either take a schtum powder or face the consequences, as has happened in the past to those considered as enemies of a State or bad for International relations between countries and in risk of creating such International incidents. Also considering that if in the events of problems with China or North Korea in the future, Thailand is the allies friendly base in South East Asia and there is no way the allies would want to jeopardise that, something similar to Israel being the allies unofficial base in the middle east. Then of course there are the fanatics and the loons who may have other ideas on how to shut this woman up.

In my opinion, this woman is in a no win situation whatever her intentions and has made her point. She would be wise to cease and desist her public activities now, falling out of the limelight while the going is good.

The British Ambassador has made it clear that LM is not an offence in the UK, and thus extradition is impossible.The Thai officials concerned know this but will continue with their efforts to show they are loyal servants of the Junta.

The whole affair is utterly trivial and unimportant, and no great significance is really given to it by either side (despite the IQ lowering theatrics in Bangkok).

The Junta is desperate for international understanding and it is inconceivable it would jeapardise relations with a country like the UK (and by extension the EU) over the antics of a (unbalanced?) woman.

Your comments on her "no win situation" and advice she 'cease and desist" are nonsense .She can continue with her tomfoolery as long as she likes.Those who physically threaten or intimidate her will be punished under UK law.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Ah, you mean like the Americans extradition of UK citizens for hacking, or going after an Australian for releasing leaked diplomatic communique. Why should the Thai authorities not expect to be able to do the same for a breach of their respective laws in cyberspace?

Hacking and spying are criminal acts in both countries.

Saying you don't like someone very much, isn't a crime in the western world.

[jayboy]

However, Rose isn't out of the woods just yet, the Thai police and foreign ministry are joining forces to arrest Rose.

"Sek Wannamethee, Director-General of the Department of Information of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told journalists on Thursday that the foreign ministry, the Royal Thai Police and the Office of the Attorney General are currently working on legal provisions to bring Chatwadee Amornpat, aka Rose, back from London to face lese majeste charges in Thailand for insulting the Thai royal family on Facebook and YouTube.

Sek Wannamethi said Thailand has an extradition treaty with the United Kingdom, but Thai officials need to look into the details of the treaty, as Ms Amornpat has British nationality, before any further action is taken.

The Royal Thai Embassy in London, in the meantime, will cooperate by verifying the addresses of Ms Amornpat and other lese majeste offenders in the United Kingdom."

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=53a2b1f2be0470b7598b456c#.U6L3iLEVeSp

Sounds like they're making this one of their top priorities.

They can make it whatever priority they wish, not even a remote chance of this happening.

Perhaps not officially, but remember that the UK has a lot of vested interests in Thailand, including commercial and as allied countries.

I am not suggesting anything illegal here, but underhanded agreements can be made behind closed doors between Governments and this woman could receive an unofficial warning to either take a schtum powder or face the consequences, as has happened in the past to those considered as enemies of a State or bad for International relations between countries and in risk of creating such International incidents. Also considering that if in the events of problems with China or North Korea in the future, Thailand is the allies friendly base in South East Asia and there is no way the allies would want to jeopardise that, something similar to Israel being the allies unofficial base in the middle east. Then of course there are the fanatics and the loons who may have other ideas on how to shut this woman up.

In my opinion, this woman is in a no win situation whatever her intentions and has made her point. She would be wise to cease and desist her public activities now, falling out of the limelight while the going is good.

They maybe, possibly, somehow get some UK official to pay her a visit and ask her nicely to stop making a fuss.

Thing is she's got a citizenship, and therefore rights - and she could make a media circus if such a request is made.

In fact, the best course of action would be to let her vent, and ignore her - each time something like extradition and

pressing charges comes up, she gets more exposure.

I don't think whatever she says or do will effect UK-Thai relationship much. There are similar people saying similar

things in other countries, no one hushes them up.

"Get some UK official to pay her a visit". You simply don't get it. All over the UK and other free countries many naturalised citizens are campaigning against regimes in their country of origin, some with far more sinister intent than this apparently simple minded woman.The appropriate reaction to any UK official who suggested to a British citizen not to commit an offence (which was not actually an offence at all under British law) would be to tell him to take a flying leap.

[Smurkster]

Ah, you mean like the Americans extradition of UK citizens for hacking, or going after an Australian for releasing leaked diplomatic communique. Why should the Thai authorities not expect to be able to do the same for a breach of their respective laws in cyberspace?

Hacking and spying are criminal acts in both countries.

Saying you don't like someone very much, isn't a crime in the western world.

yes hacking and spying are two very different acts than speaking your mind about someone/something in a possible controversial manner...

comparing espionage and speaking ill of a leader of a country isn't really comparing apples to apples...don't get me wrong, I support all that Assange or Snowden are doing, but there is a much stronger case to be made that their behavior constitutes "criminal" behavior or a threat to "national security." speaking one's mind about the monarchy in Thailand, doesn't really compromise national security in any serious manner...just a purely political, antiquated and outdated/third world "law" ...

At the end of the day, it is really sad the people don't have the ability to discuss these sort of subjects, no opportunity for discourse with this topic....and we on this forum must check and watch what we say very carefully, that in itself, is truly a shame and honestly makes me damn proud to say I am come from a country where not only is discussing and debating topics like these allowed, it is also very often encouraged....lot of expats like to trash their own countries in favor of Thailand, but at the end of the day, most likely, speaking up as Rose did, would be a non issue in most of our native countries......

Edited June 20, 2014 by Smurkster

[EBlair48]

Google stuff and it comes up blocked, The Smithsonian Magazine a security risk ? At times Forbes, The Economist?

L I E L A N D

[EBlair48]

Making the comparisons, expecting the Thais to accommodate the norms of another culture is a pointless exercise. Why should they changed to suit a bunch of winning fringe of temporary immigrants. Sure make a comparison, but don't whine about the way they choose to run their country. Again I say, if people find it so intolerable, they should leave.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Isn't the they way " they choose" or really just the elite Royalists choose- beyond the parameters of the most conservative definition of freedom? Why not critisize it? It screams for criticism. Isn't attempting to stifle opinion really about keeping foreigners, and Thais ignorant?

It's a mockable law, absurd and lessens my respect-- and I wish to make it known....

Edited June 20, 2014 by EBlair48

[Smurkster]

Making the comparisons, expecting the Thais to accommodate the norms of another culture is a pointless exercise. Why should they changed to suit a bunch of winning fringe of temporary immigrants. Sure make a comparison, but don't whine about the way they choose to run their country. Again I say, if people find it so intolerable, they should leave.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Isn't the they way " they choose" or really just the elite Royalists choose- beyond the parameters of the most conservative definition of freedom? Why not critisize it? It screams for criticism. Isn't attempting to stifle opinion really about keeping foreigners, and Thais ignorant?

It's a mockable law, absurd and lessens my respect-- and I wish to make it known....

i actually partially agree with saying "thailand for thais" it is their country and they can do whatever the hell they want to do with it, that being said, they shouldn't expect the rest of the world to go out of their way to accommodate their silly little law of lese

majeste (you know filing extradition claims and what not, childish, dark ages king of thing anyway)...especially when there actually might be some legitimate stuff worry about based on things that are happening in the world at this very moment.....

Edited June 20, 2014 by Smurkster

[doctorproc156]

Making the comparisons, expecting the Thais to accommodate the norms of another culture is a pointless exercise. Why should they changed to suit a bunch of winning fringe of temporary immigrants. Sure make a comparison, but don't whine about the way they choose to run their country. Again I say, if people find it so intolerable, they should leave.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Because borders are artificial, all humans share the earth equally and when others see that a certain group of people is being clearly brainwashed and oppressed then we will continue to say something. All this about how foriengers shouldn't comment on local politics is total nonsense, a lot of us here have Thai spouses / children as well. And anyway it is the other way around in this instance, the Thai culture of lese majeste is being imposed on to British citizens residing in the UK. Feel free to keep quiet and Thailand will never progress from where it is now.

Edited June 20, 2014 by anantha92

[marcosss]

Ah, you mean like the Americans extradition of UK citizens for hacking, or going after an Australian for releasing leaked diplomatic communique. Why should the Thai authorities not expect to be able to do the same for a breach of their respective laws in cyberspace?

Hacking and spying are criminal acts in both countries.

Saying you don't like someone very much, isn't a crime in the western world.

yes hacking and spying are two very different acts than speaking your mind about someone/something in a possible controversial manner...

comparing espionage and speaking ill of a leader of a country isn't really comparing apples to apples...don't get me wrong, I support all that Assange or Snowden are doing, but there is a much stronger case to be made that their behavior constitutes "criminal" behavior or a threat to "national security." speaking one's mind about the monarchy in Thailand, doesn't really compromise national security in any serious manner...just a purely political, antiquated and outdated/third world "law" ...

At the end of the day, it is really sad the people don't have the ability to discuss these sort of subjects, no opportunity for discourse with this topic....and we on this forum must check and watch what we say very carefully, that in itself, is truly a shame and honestly makes me damn proud to say I am come from a country where not only is discussing and debating topics like these allowed, it is also very often encouraged....lot of expats like to trash their own countries in favor of Thailand, but at the end of the day, most likely, speaking up as Rose did, would be a non issue in most of our native countries......

I agree with you in full, the point I wanted to make is that ultimately it is an issue for the Thai people & for us to make some of the scathing comments about the way that they deal with their country, their customs or their laws for that matter is unwarranted, even if we consider them outdated. I'm sure that the Thai people will find a normality that is uniquely Thai and satisfactory to the majority eventually.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[marcosss]

Ah, you mean like the Americans extradition of UK citizens for hacking, or going after an Australian for releasing leaked diplomatic communique. Why should the Thai authorities not expect to be able to do the same for a breach of their respective laws in cyberspace?

Hacking and spying are criminal acts in both countries.

Saying you don't like someone very much, isn't a crime in the western world.

& insulting the royals in Thailand is taken seriously, where hacking & ip law is not. Last time I looked, Thailand was not part of the western world, therefore western rules and norms do not apply. The point is that the Thai people must find their own way in the world.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[shadmo63]

I don't know if it's been mentioned - too many posts to read - one of her 'exercise' videos had her doing 'step ups' on Paul Handley's book.

'

LM laws are simply a means of avoiding the truth. This goes against Buddhist teachings. Libel and Slander laws are good enough to protect free speech and each and every citizen in nearly every western country. "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon and the truth." - Buddha. Rose's day will come, hopefully sooner than later.

[kriswillems]

Actually, if you look at her facebook page, you can see that some of her claims can't possibly be the truth.

I can't repeat them here, so find it out yourself. She's very extreme in her claims. Her opinion is very unbalanced.

She's writes Thai like a native. She has probably decided for herself she never wants to return to Thailand even though she is very Thai.

It's quiet a big sacrifice to make.

Having said that, I think freedom of speech is one of the basic rights of a democracy. And in the end I hope Thailand will become a democracy.

[Emptyset]

I notice some royalists on Facebook are worried the extradition of Rose won't take place. Whilst they're going to be steadfast in pushing for extradition as hard as they can, they're beginning to suspect the UK isn't sensitive enough to the problem and may be determined to provide a haven to this formidable enemy of state. I fear they may be right about that. So they're discussing whether there are any "other methods" they could use to ensure she's returned to Thailand to face justice for her crimes.

I was wondering if they were considering something like kidnapping her and flying her back in a private plane, similar to the way Israel captured Eichmann when he was hiding in Argentina in the early 60s. That action posed a dilemma at the time over whether Israel had acted properly in disregarding local laws, even though the trial was undoubtedly for the greater good. This was famously discussed in Arendt's classic 'Eichmann in Jerusalem'. Of course, Eichmann was implicated in the murder of millions of people. Some would argue that what Rose has done is worse, but I'm not so sure.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Emptyset

[apetley]

I talked with my wife about this woman a couple of times and all she said was 'waste of time, best just to ignore her'.

I would have thought Thailand has much more pressing issues that require fixing than to expend so much effort on an obviously disturbed character.

When I was a kid we used to sing 'sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never harm me'. Is there such a verse in Thai?

[AGareth2]

^ probably

they sue them for criminal d

Edited June 21, 2014 by AGareth2

[Morch]

Perhaps not officially, but remember that the UK has a lot of vested interests in Thailand, including commercial and as allied countries.

I am not suggesting anything illegal here, but underhanded agreements can be made behind closed doors between Governments and this woman could receive an unofficial warning to either take a schtum powder or face the consequences, as has happened in the past to those considered as enemies of a State or bad for International relations between countries and in risk of creating such International incidents. Also considering that if in the events of problems with China or North Korea in the future, Thailand is the allies friendly base in South East Asia and there is no way the allies would want to jeopardise that, something similar to Israel being the allies unofficial base in the middle east. Then of course there are the fanatics and the loons who may have other ideas on how to shut this woman up.

In my opinion, this woman is in a no win situation whatever her intentions and has made her point. She would be wise to cease and desist her public activities now, falling out of the limelight while the going is good.

They maybe, possibly, somehow get some UK official to pay her a visit and ask her nicely to stop making a fuss.

Thing is she's got a citizenship, and therefore rights - and she could make a media circus if such a request is made.

In fact, the best course of action would be to let her vent, and ignore her - each time something like extradition and

pressing charges comes up, she gets more exposure.

I don't think whatever she says or do will effect UK-Thai relationship much. There are similar people saying similar

things in other countries, no one hushes them up.

"Get some UK official to pay her a visit". You simply don't get it. All over the UK and other free countries many naturalised citizens are campaigning against regimes in their country of origin, some with far more sinister intent than this apparently simple minded woman.The appropriate reaction to any UK official who suggested to a British citizen not to commit an offence (which was not actually an offence at all under British law) would be to tell him to take a flying leap.

Seems like you took a part of a sentence in my post out of context and interpreted it the wrong way.

Perhaps a different way of putting things, but not actually very far from your opinion.

[harrry]

She had better not go to Germany. Lese Majesty, or criticising the Head of State of a foreign power is an offence there.

Edited June 21, 2014 by harrry

[cmsally]

Well just to make things a little more interesting it seems there are now posts on Facebook insulting the British queen. Some nice colourful language because she won't send this woman back to Thailand. Then going on about how if she refuses to send her back to Thailand the Thai army will invade England . Oh my god , made my day, good job I finished my coffee as it would have gone all over the keyboard.

Can just imagine some of my UK army friends knocking the ... out of the Thai army.

Now I suppose someone should go to this persons house with a spray can and install the union jack on their door? Any takers.?

Irony, irony, irony.

Looks like the post has now been removed with an apology!

Edited June 21, 2014 by cmsally

[harrry]

Well just to make things a little more interesting it seems there are now posts on Facebook insulting the British queen. Some nice colourful language because she won't send this woman back to Thailand. Then going on about how if she refuses to send her back to Thailand the Thai army will invade England . Oh my god , made my day, good job I finished my coffee as it would have gone all over the keyboard.

Can just imagine some of my UK army friends knocking the ... out of the Thai army.

Now I suppose someone should go to this persons house with a spray can and install the union jack on their door? Any takers.?

Irony, irony, irony.

Looks like the post has now been removed with an apology!

If they areThai they have to remember the rule covers all heads of state and successors and consorts.....some members here may need to remember that too sometimes.

Edited June 21, 2014 by harrry

[maxme]

Well just to make things a little more interesting it seems there are now posts on Facebook insulting the British queen. Some nice colourful language because she won't send this woman back to Thailand. Then going on about how if she refuses to send her back to Thailand the Thai army will invade England . Oh my god , made my day, good job I finished my coffee as it would have gone all over the keyboard.

Can just imagine some of my UK army friends knocking the ... out of the Thai army.

Now I suppose someone should go to this persons house with a spray can and install the union jack on their door? Any takers.?

Irony, irony, irony.

Looks like the post has now been removed with an apology!

If they areThai they have to remember the rule covers all heads of state and successors and consorts.....some members here may need to remember that too sometimes.

Then what's the point with citizenship if all citizens fly under one banner and the same rules?

I wonder if the people supporting the extradition are even living here.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

I notice some royalists on Facebook are worried the extradition of Rose won't take place. Whilst they're going to be steadfast in pushing for extradition as hard as they can, they're beginning to suspect the UK isn't sensitive enough to the problem and may be determined to provide a haven to this formidable enemy of state. I fear they may be right about that. So they're discussing whether there are any "other methods" they could use to ensure she's returned to Thailand to face justice for her crimes.

I was wondering if they were considering something like kidnapping her and flying her back in a private plane, similar to the way Israel captured Eichmann when he was hiding in Argentina in the early 60s. That action posed a dilemma at the time over whether Israel had acted properly in disregarding local laws, even though the trial was undoubtedly for the greater good. This was famously discussed in Arendt's classic 'Eichmann in Jerusalem'. Of course, Eichmann was implicated in the murder of millions of people. Some would argue that what Rose has done is worse, but I'm not so sure.

Well this would be an extremely stupid thing to do. If they claim love and devotion to the monarchy, launching some half arswd vigilante act in London would be very stupid.

If anything it would probably give people in bangkok pause for thought about whether encouraging this type of behaviour verges on brain washing.

[Thai at Heart]

Well just to make things a little more interesting it seems there are now posts on Facebook insulting the British queen. Some nice colourful language because she won't send this woman back to Thailand. Then going on about how if she refuses to send her back to Thailand the Thai army will invade England . Oh my god , made my day, good job I finished my coffee as it would have gone all over the keyboard.

Can just imagine some of my UK army friends knocking the ... out of the Thai army.

Now I suppose someone should go to this persons house with a spray can and install the union jack on their door? Any takers.?

Irony, irony, irony.

Looks like the post has now been removed with an apology!

Well.someone should go down to the cop shop in Thailand and lodge a lese majeste complaint of insulting the queen of England.

If the offence/post was committed in Thailand the police would investigate. One way for a.farang to show how stupid the lese mandate law in Thailand is.

[Smurkster]

As mentioned before, this isn't the rest of the world telling Thailand how they should conduct their business within their borders...no this is actually Thailand trying to impose their laws on a woman who is no longer a Thai citizen and is making these statements from a foreign country of which she is a citizen

[catweazle]

I wouldn't be amazed if this naive, spoiled little pottymouth gets extradited to Thailand and made an example of by receiving the maximum sentence without possibilty for pardon... She certainly would deserve it, because the vulgar images and words she used were far over the top and had absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech, but were meant to have a maximum insulting effect. Even the sluttiest Soi Cowboy Mama San would not use such phrases in day to day life. What a stupid low-life scum brat... I feel sorry for her parents.

Edited June 21, 2014 by catweazle