Raising Our Kids Thai Style Is Driving Me Insane

[StreetCowboy]

" I am not stating either way is better than the other but based on what I have seen after 10 years here if you had to look at the overall evidence you would have to think that a child stands a better chance of success with a European style upbringing which is what I am basing the above on."

Lol! youre not saying which is better, youre just saying you think the european style is better!!

He's not saying a priori which is better, but to the extent that the child is father to the man, the European educated children appear to generate more successful adults.

Our Marky was sent to Eton. I don't see the converse happening, No judgement intended, merely observation. My judgement I retain for the education of my own children

SC

[benalibina]

2 yr old kid.

"and they would say "it's his fault for falling off of a table/wall/motorbike""

Lolocaust.

and people wonder why there's 'Thai bashing'.

This post reminded me of something i witnessed. A 2/3 year old girl in a restaurant with her mother suddenly ran, 20 mtr, towards the road whilst her mother was chatting away with her friends. I have never seen a kid so being bullied by a parent. I was shocked to see the mothers behaviour. Says enough about parenting from the careless 1s. Which btw is not restricted to LOS.

[Andrew Hicks]

Your problem is that you are trying to swim against the tidal flow of a whole culture. In what I have written about living in Isaan I describe in a light hearted way that the only way to be happy there is to learn to 'go with the flow'.

This is fine except when it comes to raising ones own child whose interests are of paramount importance. Perhaps if they are to spend their life in Thailand it is fair enough to let them be brought up according to their own culture which certainly succeeds in producing the most delightful people. The Thais perhaps even have the work/life balance better calibrated than in the West. Nonetheless it is hard to see one's child being brought up badly.

There were specific things though that I found intolerable, such as diet. I found it totally impossible to protect my child from an inevitable slide towards obesity and diabetes. All the family would ply him with sweets and ice cream on demand and I was seen as the mad despicable farang when I tried to deny them. There was no solution to this, only frustration and tension.

There in fact was only one way. We moved to and have settled in the UK where he is now thriving and will be given much greater opportunities for his future life.

Andrew.

PS This is no criticism of 'my Thai girl' who is well aware of the different ways of bringing a child up and is keen and effective in giving him the necessary structures and disciplines that her own culture lacks.

[puukao]

Once again, life boils down to common sense. I'm sure you knew there was a problem a long time ago, but used some work excuse to avoid the obvious. In America, there are so many obese who say "oh, i work all the time, no time to exercise." "oh, i got a divorce but i had to work all the time." "sure, i drink all the time, but work is stressful." way to play the sheep in life and simply become a defeatist.

get respect, be a friend, role-model, and do what you know will help. take full responsibility; it's not your wife's or employer's fault. we are talking about your child's future here. take it seriously.

[Thai at Heart]

Your problem is that you are trying to swim against the tidal flow of a whole culture. In what I have written about living in Isaan I describe in a light hearted way that the only way to be happy there is to learn to 'go with the flow'.

This is fine except when it comes to raising ones own child whose interests are of paramount importance. Perhaps if they are to spend their life in Thailand it is fair enough to let them be brought up according to their own culture which certainly succeeds in producing the most delightful people. The Thais perhaps even have the work/life balance better calibrated than in the West. Nonetheless it is hard to see one's child being brought up badly.

There were specific things though that I found intolerable, such as diet. I found it totally impossible to protect my child from an inevitable slide towards obesity and diabetes. All the family would ply him with sweets and ice cream on demand and I was seen as the mad despicable farang when I tried to deny them. There was no solution to this, only frustration and tension.

There in fact was only one way. We moved to and have settled in the UK where he is now thriving and will be given much greater opportunities for his future life.

Andrew.

PS This is no criticism of 'my Thai girl' who is well aware of the different ways of bringing a child up and is keen and effective in giving him the necessary structures and disciplines that her own culture lacks.

I brought my kids up in Isaan for 12 years but my missus was a trained teacher . she understood the concept of limits, routine, diet and the rest.

We left recently, but the kids were fine. I have however been privy to seeing others struggling to get it right and it is a struggle to watch. The indulgence and lack of control and discipline afforded to some kids can be painful to watch.

But then Einstein wasn't born in Isaan either.

[KunMatt]

2 yr old kid.

"and they would say "it's his fault for falling off of a table/wall/motorbike""

Lolocaust.

and people wonder why there's 'Thai bashing'.

This post reminded me of something i witnessed. A 2/3 year old girl in a restaurant with her mother suddenly ran, 20 mtr, towards the road whilst her mother was chatting away with her friends. I have never seen a kid so being bullied by a parent. I was shocked to see the mothers behaviour. Says enough about parenting from the careless 1s. Which btw is not restricted to LOS.

So here's another one for you. I didn't go into too much detail on that post because I don't want to disparage my Thai family because I love and respect them a lot, they are awesome people, they are just dangerous for my kids to be around. However, my wife has a lot of cousins in BKK, so this is the next generation of the people who we lived with in Isaan. Last month we were all having dinner together and the 6 year son of my wife's cousin starts to choke on his food. I'm one of the furthest sat away from him but I think I was the one who realised and raised the alarm, I can see that he cannot breathe at all, he has several adults right next to him including his mother. Two of the adults just stand up and go into a panic, screaming and flapping their arms but the mother takes the boy rubs his back and blows on his head. Now this instantly takes me back to every time my son was choking on some milk as a baby and somebody just blew on his head until I picked him up and put him into a position where he could clear his airway, so I jump into action and grab the boy, put him over my knee and smack him on the back as hard as I can three times and then chain this into a modified Heimlich as the boy is limp so I'm just kinda heaving him up making sure my hands pound into his diaphragm as hard as I can until, luckily, he finally vomits up the blockage.

As soon as the boy seems OK the mother berates him and smacks him round the back of the head, and then everyone starts talking about how the boy is to blame for scoffing his food too quickly or whatever just having a big discussion about what just happened while ignoring the boy, not one person consoles the poor kid who has gone back to his food and is hunched over shaking trying his hardest not to cry, I go and put my arm around him and tell him that it's OK that he is scared cuz I was scared too and that he doesn't have to feel bad or upset about what happened as it's not his fault. To me this is a normal way of caring for someone and yet at a table of about 20 people not one person did this.

I'm not saying that it doesn't exist here, but I rarely see any compassion here in the way which I think is right.

[poweratradio]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Breadwinner. As in most families any where in the world I am working 8 to 6pm to get the money to feed my family, provide for the future and educate my children.

Yes of course I am leaving the bulk of it to the wife...by necessity....as is done almost everywhere in the world (not just Thailand).

So did our fathers work those hours but he made time for us on reading evenings,sports & outdoor entertainment weekends and holidays AND YES "he occasionally put his foot down or up or in or on as the case needed". Your excuses are not valid OP

Edited April 27, 2014 by poweratradio

[poweratradio]

I am at work all day long so whatever I suggest will almost certainly not be implemented and I have no way to know what happens during the day.

How about taking some time off to help out with the upbringing of your child, I feel sure the wife and MIL would welcome the break, that way you can have your own input.

If you dont like the situation do something about it, change your ways coz you sure as heck wont change theirs.

You should re-read the OP's post. He did do something about it............!

[HooHaa]

If I had 1000 baht and gave it to Lady Pla she would buy 3 or 4 ice creams for the kids that were around,she would by me a 100 baht shirt I do not want another shirt I have got more shirts than the shirt factory.She would buy something for Granma,she would buy some make up for her self she would have plenty left and she would be straight off to that shop and spend the rest on Baby Eye that just how they are let them go or the will do your head in

what?

[maprao]

I have done it both ways (western) UK and Thai

The Thai way is frustrating at times.

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children. I feel really guilty about the structured way we brought our daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders everyday.Strict rules sometimes rules just for rules sake. Scheduled eating times, bed times etc. Putting them in a room alone at 3 months old, with a baby monitor, is verging on "criminal" in my opinion, now. My UK daughter even comments on the differences when she visits us.

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

my two cents worth.

Edited April 27, 2014 by maprao

[KunMatt]

I have done it both ways (western) UK and Thai

The Thai way is frustrating at times.

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children. I feel really guilty about the structured way we brought our daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders everyday.Strict rules sometimes rules just for rules sake. Scheduled eating times, bed times etc. Putting them in a room alone at 3 months months old, with a baby monitor, is verging on "criminal" in my opinion, now. My UK daughter even comments on the differences when she visits us.

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

my two cents worth.

Are you serious or are you deliberately being sarcastic for trolling points?

Either way I guess I will bite;

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children.

Not once have a I ever seen my wife's parents hug, kiss or tell her that they love her, literally not one time have I seen them have any physical contact with any of their three children. It always sticks in my mind the first time we went to stay in their vilage and they had not seen her for about a year, and were meeting me for the very first time. We turn up in a taxi from the airport and both of them are sat outside talking to each other and act like we have just come back from the shops from 10 minutes ago. I was really thrown by how uncaring they were to their daughter who they had not seem for so long. A few months later we went to the UK for my partner to meet my parents for the first time and even though we got back at 2am my folks waiting up and showered my partner with kisses, hugs and welcomes which she really appreciated.

Tell me again how this bond thing works in Thailand?

Actually you have already answered my question;

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home[/b][/u] and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

THIS is really what the brainwashing since birth is all about and why parents teach their children that the parents are their nuber 1 priority, because the kids are their social security and need to look after them when they are elderly. If they weren't brainwashed to idolise their parents then their parents would have a very hard time when they retired. If there was any social security here or any care homes for the elderly then I am sure that things would be very different here.

[maprao]

Hi KunMatt You are entitled to your opinion. I am just stating what I have experienced and observed. This is based on the way I was brought up and the way I brought my first daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders was because we both had to work. Now I can afford for my wife to stay at home as a homemaker and take care of the family unit I am much happier.

One question to you is have you tried and experienced the two very different ways of bringing up children?

I have and my opinion is the way we are doing it now is best. I can not explain the bond thing to you as you have to live it to understand. I take your social security statement but we will not be relying on that as I have adequately catered for our retirement.

My biggest issue will be to give him western work ethics values and integrity to achieve his career ambitions. While at the same time retaining his mother's family values.

Edited April 27, 2014 by maprao

[KunMatt]

Hi KunMatt You are entitled to your opinion. I am just stating what I have experienced and observed. This is based on the way I was brought up and the way I brought my first daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders was because we both had to work. Now I can afford for my wife to stay at home as a homemaker and take care of the family unit I am much happier.

One question to you is have you tried and experienced the two very different ways of bringing up children?

I have and my opinion is the way we are doing it now is best. I can not explain the bond thing to you as you have to live it to understand.

My biggest issue will be to give him western work ethics values and integrity to achieve his career ambitions. While at the same time retaining his mother's family values.

I spent 2 years with the extended family in Isaan, now in BKK just me, the mother and kids, next year we will move to the UK.

The love, compassion and closeness my son has with MY parents is much greater than what he has with his Thai grandparents, and he has only spent a few months with my folks on 3 visits in his life and daily video Skype calls. I can see how my son changes after spending a few weeks with my folks compared to how he is after a few weeks with his Thai Grandparents and if you read my other posts in this thread I think I have more than covered the outcome.

Maybe my experience is different from yours, maybe my Thai family is totally different from yours, whose family is the norm here I cannot say but love, closeness and compassion are some of the last words I would use to describe the Thai people that I have met since living here. They are awesome people but they show they love and feelings in a very different way to what I am used to, you know like with words and actions and the like.

[maprao]

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Hi KunMatt You are entitled to your opinion. I am just stating what I have experienced and observed. This is based on the way I was brought up and the way I brought my first daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders was because we both had to work. Now I can afford for my wife to stay at home as a homemaker and take care of the family unit I am much happier.

One question to you is have you tried and experienced the two very different ways of bringing up children?

I have and my opinion is the way we are doing it now is best. I can not explain the bond thing to you as you have to live it to understand.

My biggest issue will be to give him western work ethics values and integrity to achieve his career ambitions. While at the same time retaining his mother's family values. alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20>

I spent 2 years with the extended family in Isaan, now in BKK just me, the mother and kids, next year we will move to the UK.

The love, compassion and closeness my son has with MY parents is much greater than what he has with his Thai grandparents, and he has only spent a few months with my folks on 3 visits in his life and daily video Skype calls. I can see how my son changes after spending a few weeks with my folks compared to how he is after a few weeks with his Thai Grandparents and if you read my other posts in this thread I think I have more than covered the outcome.

Maybe my experience is different from yours, maybe my Thai family is totally different from yours, whose family is the norm here I cannot say but love, closeness and compassion are some of the last words I would use to describe the Thai people that I have met since living here. They are awesome people but they show they love and feelings in a very different way to what I am used to, you know like with words and actions and the like.

I only talk about my inner circle family i.e. my wife & son and the manner in which we bring him up and the differences in our family to my my experiences in the UK.

I agree with your comments about extended family and their expressions of motions. Although I have never experienced Isaan.

I wish you luck returning to the UK. The country has changed so much since I was last there I doubt i will ever return. I however will continue being an expatriate until I retire in Thailand.

Edited April 27, 2014 by maprao

[benalibina]

Hi KunMatt You are entitled to your opinion. I am just stating what I have experienced and observed. This is based on the way I was brought up and the way I brought my first daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders was because we both had to work. Now I can afford for my wife to stay at home as a homemaker and take care of the family unit I am much happier.

One question to you is have you tried and experienced the two very different ways of bringing up children?

I have and my opinion is the way we are doing it now is best. I can not explain the bond thing to you as you have to live it to understand.

My biggest issue will be to give him western work ethics values and integrity to achieve his career ambitions. While at the same time retaining his mother's family values.

I spent 2 years with the extended family in Isaan, now in BKK just me, the mother and kids, next year we will move to the UK.

The love, compassion and closeness my son has with MY parents is much greater than what he has with his Thai grandparents, and he has only spent a few months with my folks on 3 visits in his life and daily video Skype calls. I can see how my son changes after spending a few weeks with my folks compared to how he is after a few weeks with his Thai Grandparents and if you read my other posts in this thread I think I have more than covered the outcome.

Maybe my experience is different from yours, maybe my Thai family is totally different from yours, whose family is the norm here I cannot say but love, closeness and compassion are some of the last words I would use to describe the Thai people that I have met since living here. They are awesome people but they show they love and feelings in a very different way to what I am used to, you know like with words and actions and the like.

Grandparents. I had to tell my wife that, as her mother is the only grandparent the kids have, it would be nice to see that she shows some interest in them, when she came every fridayevening before to sleep in her house.

I was telling my wife that and not directly to her mother. Ofcourse my wife was not happy about it.....2 weeks later i saw though that her mother paid attention to the kids......once only though.......kids are the means to an aim for many poor thais.....sadly enough.....grandkids are...never mind.

[Patsycat]

Can you adopt me?

I'm 50, i don't have an i pad or an i phone, or a games thingy. I can swim, with my hello kitty armbands.

I'm very good at sleeping, and eat all my food by myself. Not keen on spinach.

Get the boy to a play group or kindergarten or whatever, so he can interact with other kids and have fun. like kids should.

If you are out all day earning money you should be able to afford it. And then look at his wee face light up when he sees you and he babbles away about his day.

It must be morbidly boring for a mother to have to entertain a two year old all day with the same games over and over again.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Patsycat

[Thai at Heart]

I have done it both ways (western) UK and Thai

The Thai way is frustrating at times.

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children. I feel really guilty about the structured way we brought our daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders everyday.Strict rules sometimes rules just for rules sake. Scheduled eating times, bed times etc. Putting them in a room alone at 3 months months old, with a baby monitor, is verging on "criminal" in my opinion, now. My UK daughter even comments on the differences when she visits us.

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

my two cents worth.

Are you serious or are you deliberately being sarcastic for trolling points?

Either way I guess I will bite;

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children.

Not once have a I ever seen my wife's parents hug, kiss or tell her that they love her, literally not one time have I seen them have any physical contact with any of their three children. It always sticks in my mind the first time we went to stay in their vilage and they had not seen her for about a year, and were meeting me for the very first time. We turn up in a taxi from the airport and both of them are sat outside talking to each other and act like we have just come back from the shops from 10 minutes ago. I was really thrown by how uncaring they were to their daughter who they had not seem for so long. A few months later we went to the UK for my partner to meet my parents for the first time and even though we got back at 2am my folks waiting up and showered my partner with kisses, hugs and welcomes which she really appreciated.

Tell me again how this bond thing works in Thailand?

Actually you have already answered my question;

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home[/b][/u] and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

THIS is really what the brainwashing since birth is all about and why parents teach their children that the parents are their nuber 1 priority, because the kids are their social security and need to look after them when they are elderly. If they weren't brainwashed to idolise their parents then their parents would have a very hard time when they retired. If there was any social security here or any care homes for the elderly then I am sure that things would be very different here.

Indeed I am sick of.hearing this blatent idea that the Thai way is inherently better. Yes indeed, from.my experience, the kids don't put the parents in a home waiting for an inheritance.

The parents are extremely busy trying to lever every baht they can out of their kids.

[hgma]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Not trying to be rude, but ever heard of role modeling when there needs to be at least 1 income to live off.

and bringing up children untill the age of around 5 is the wifes/mothers job......dad works remember.?

Its a pain in the ass if people/women have a 'up to you' attitude when pointing out, NOT pointing fingers and explain that children need supervising 24/7 at least untill its safe (due to a good upbringing) to let them go on their own.

[JenniferSG]

The three solutions I can think of are:

1) have more input - spend weekends with your son, do activities, write daily schedules, get involved.

2) ask the mother to take the son to childcare centers for structure - Bambi is very popular in Bangkok, they organize songs, games, play sessions, all very structured and controlled, just google them.

3) International schools cater for kids as young as 2 - send your son there for the activities and structure you think he's missing. He'll have set meal times, nap times, play times etc which you think he needs.

Thanks for this.

Options 2 and or 3 are EXACTLY what I am thinking. He just turned 2 yesterday and whilst i think this is too young I do feel it is far better than what is happening at home and what he needs is structure and routines in his day. He loves other kids and playing and so I am thinking this is the perfect solution.

Mother is not so keen on doing it so young (I see her point) but I will definietly put my foot down and insist. It seems the best solution when all things are considered.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

If money isn't an issue why not get a nanny and also send the child to part-time child care? He'd have the structure at childcare without yet going full time, and you could insist the nanny - who you pay - have structured activities at home as well with a set schedule (no more than 1 hour per day of any glowing screen, reading books together daily, nap times so he learns to go to sleep when scheduled, educational interaction, play dates with other children, swim lessons, etc.). I found that when my kids were little and full of energy if someone else had been available to take them to swim, etc. every once in a while so I could have a shower and a nap or just read a book the break would have made me a better parent. My mother was there often, too, but did none of the child care. Just watched me do it. It wears you out to do childcare 24/7 and adults need breaks to be alone or just be with other adults. That down time can revive her to be a more involved parent the rest of the time.

[thaibeachlovers]

I am a working dad but I still make time for my kids. Yes I am the breadwinner but to have that ancient Neanderthal opinion that the wife takes care of the kids is your first and biggest mistake. My eldest(4yr old) has at least 30 minutes with me after work no matter how tired I am. We play or talk about what she did today and then we put her to bed and I read her a story. She loves the fairy tales and it gets her excited about going to bed. She gets a quota every day of iPhone games or tv and when that's done she gets Lego or other items that work her brain.

No way we would let her be a couch potatoe. My wife is a typical Thai that loves her tv and iPhone but she knows the kids come first. Our newborn will be brought up the same way.

It's not easy believe me there are tantrums at times when tv has to go off but that's the nature of being a family.

If your mother in law is making things difficult then tell your wife to step in. Good luck

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TV is one of the worst things possible for young people because of the addictive factor. I was lucky in that there wasn't any TV when I was a child.

When I was in a relationship with a woman with children I got so PO with the kid just watching TV all his spare time that I only allowed him 2 shows a day and then the tv was off. Also, he couldn't use it at all from after school till 5 pm. Even if he went round to his friends to watch, at least he was with someone else, and not just on his own.

These days of course, it's the computer- even worse for a young developing mind.

Kids should be playing, not stuck to a screen.

[Andre0720]

If you are not in the OP's situation it will be easy for you to say it's his fault. Truth is, if you did a survey in this country about the definition of parenting, you would be shocked by the difference between Thais and the west. I would go as far to say that parenting, as a concept, does not even exist here (at least among the masses) beyond the idea of meeting basic needs and getting the kids into the system. Sure there will be exceptions, but the amount of times I have seen people turn everyday events into learning experiences here, I could count on one hand. Always the path of least resistance is chosen. If the OP's missus is not on the same page with him on this, he has years of frustration coming up. The best thing to do is to get her out west to spend a little time with western moms and kids. Sure the moms are paranoid and obsessive, but a lot of those kids are absolutely brilliant.

Hmmmmm

As an old single dude, let me tell you my perspective looking in from the outside.

In the US, street gangs abound, and kids often make rude comments or gestures as you pass.

In Thailand, kids are extremely polite, smile and say hello as I pass.

Which countries parents do I think are more successful?

You are comparing ''street gangs' in america, to perhaps normal kids in Thailand.

The members of street gangs in america might never had an upbringing at all...

The nice kids in Thailand, polite and smiling, might end up on Yah Bah, damage your property, and not take responsibility for it,

And politely walk away with a big smile...

[Andre0720]

Children need love, not structure.

Your wife and MIL are going a good job, from what I read.

Thailand is a great place for kids to grow up, much more freedom and less fear.

Providing 'LOVE' is probably the most meaningless word linked to raising children.

No definition for it...

In some countries, kids are beaten because parents love them, and want them to be better children.

In some countries, some kids are thrown acid in their face, because parents love them and want them to adhere to cultural values.

In some countries, some kids are allowed to do what they want at any time, because parents want to show that they love them.

In some countries, (fill-in the blank)

Kids need structure

Kids need an environment where they can learn to socialise with other kids

Kids need an environment where they can learn to find solutions to their own problems

Kids need parents to be attentive to their needs

Kids need an environment conducive to becoming responsible adults...

The number of irresponsible actions by Thais in Thailand are just multiple daily occurrences..

And are free to do it with no consequences.

[bowerboy]

Thanks for the thoughts on this and I can totally relate...

OP you know what is best for your kids and you have to do what you know is right so you do it your way.

We lived in Isaan in my wife's village for 2 years, from when my son was 6 months old, we had a daughter last year too. I tried to make the most of living in the village and raising him with his extended Isaan family but in the end I decided that for the good of my children to move away to Bangkok before one of my kid's got seriously injured or worse. His family are good people and would never do anything to intentionally hurt my kids who they completely adore, however my son was getting hurt and injured every single time he went and spent any time with them and it got to the point where I would worry whenever he was in their care.

In the beginning I think I made a lot of concessions letting his grandparents do things their way a few times, this lead to my son developing some behavioural problems which I believe can be directly attributed to their style of discipline and care. The most serious problem was that they would never discipline him when he was naughty, so he would hurt one of them and they all would laugh and cheer, so he would go around and punch them each in the face and they would all laugh and clap, this then got to the point where whenever he was with anyone he would punch them in the face; we would walk down the street and he would take a swing at any stranger who was within reach, it is very hard to unteach a child something like this once he has got a lot of attention for it before so I tried to put a stop to it as soon as I could. I told all of them to not laugh at him when he was naughty and to tell him off and put him in the naughty corner when he did so, but they all said it was cruel to do that to him and nothing at all changed. Apply this mindset to every aspect of my child's upbringing with them and he developed a lot of problems which I found very difficult to correct even to this day. We've been living in BKK now for 4 months and my son is so much better than when we first moved here, he goes to an international play-school every day and the teachers are commenting that they don't understand why my son will be happy and playing with another kid and then out of the blue punch him in the face and carry on playing like it's normal.

The behavioural side was a big factor but even worse was that I feared for the safety for my son. He would get injured every single time he spent any time with his Isaan family, coming home after just 1 hour away with a huge bruise over his face or body, or a gash on a leg or arm, and they would say "it's his fault for falling off of a table/wall/motorbike", like their supervision doesn't cover stopping him from climbing onto a wall or motorbike. Of course my son would get the occasional knock with me too but I can count on one hand in 3 years the sort of injuries he has received under my care that he would get every single day in Isaan. I work in an industry where health and safety is paramount and if there is a pattern of repeating incidents then the job would be shut down and the conditions and the mindset of all involved would have to be changed because statistics have shown that repeating small incidents always lead up to a catastrophe if nothing is changed, and I could not change the mindset of my Isaan family to stop my son getting hurt every time she was in their care and a serious incident was looming if I did nothing.

It was a very harsh step moving away from his loving Isaan family but it is for the best and he is doing so much better here in Bangkok now with just his parents. Health and safety is nothing here and people think it is funny to take a huge risk with life, the same people will be screaming in disbelief when something horrible happens because of their negligence, but nothing will change after that.

Do what is best for your kids. Which is worse; offending your Thai family or having something horrible happen to your kids because you didn't step in when you needed to?

[bowerboy]

I must admit I do see it exactly the same way as this ie: much of the brainwashing is done to ensure someone takes care of them when they are old....

The utter dedication and unquestioning devotion to the parents is a but disturbing in my view...they are almost putting themsleves back by a generation in their thinking.

I have done it both ways (western) UK and Thai

The Thai way is frustrating at times.

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children. I feel really guilty about the structured way we brought our daughter up in the UK. Palming her off to childminders everyday.Strict rules sometimes rules just for rules sake. Scheduled eating times, bed times etc. Putting them in a room alone at 3 months months old, with a baby monitor, is verging on "criminal" in my opinion, now. My UK daughter even comments on the differences when she visits us.

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

my two cents worth.

Are you serious or are you deliberately being sarcastic for trolling points?

Either way I guess I will bite;

But the Thai way is best. There is a closer bond between parents and children.

Not once have a I ever seen my wife's parents hug, kiss or tell her that they love her, literally not one time have I seen them have any physical contact with any of their three children. It always sticks in my mind the first time we went to stay in their vilage and they had not seen her for about a year, and were meeting me for the very first time. We turn up in a taxi from the airport and both of them are sat outside talking to each other and act like we have just come back from the shops from 10 minutes ago. I was really thrown by how uncaring they were to their daughter who they had not seem for so long. A few months later we went to the UK for my partner to meet my parents for the first time and even though we got back at 2am my folks waiting up and showered my partner with kisses, hugs and welcomes which she really appreciated.

Tell me again how this bond thing works in Thailand?

Actually you have already answered my question;

Thai kids (or 50/50) will not put you in an old peoples home[/b][/u] and wait for you to die and inherit what you have. They by the nature of their upbringing want to take care of their parents because of the bond and love.

THIS is really what the brainwashing since birth is all about and why parents teach their children that the parents are their nuber 1 priority, because the kids are their social security and need to look after them when they are elderly. If they weren't brainwashed to idolise their parents then their parents would have a very hard time when they retired. If there was any social security here or any care homes for the elderly then I am sure that things would be very different here.

[bowerboy]

Can you adopt me?

I'm 50, i don't have an i pad or an i phone, or a games thingy. I can swim, with my hello kitty armbands.

I'm very good at sleeping, and eat all my food by myself. Not keen on spinach.

Get the boy to a play group or kindergarten or whatever, so he can interact with other kids and have fun. like kids should.

If you are out all day earning money you should be able to afford it. And then look at his wee face light up when he sees you and he babbles away about his day.

It must be morbidly boring for a mother to have to entertain a two year old all day with the same games over and over again.

Hahaha...its the "morbidly boring" but that made me laugh...i would of thought so too but you know how the Thai's are, biredom just doesnt seem to be a concept that they understand!!! Their capacity for what we would call boredom always astonishes me!!

[bowerboy]

Another concern I have with the parenting is the absolute rubbish that they feed them..

Our son often eats "street food" such as the barbecue skewers and such like...those I dont mind so much as it probably wont hurt to build up some resistance to commun stoamch bugs etc.

But its the things like those disgusting hot dog sausages at 7/11 (full of lips and anuses and spinal cords) and other overly processed foods that concerns me...and the complete shock when I ask them if they have thought about what they might be feeding our child....just absolutely no thought whatsoever goes into what they feed them....its just rice, rice, rice and more rice and then they are surprised when the kid wont eat.....i have to remind them that we are not in 1970's Issan!! There are other foods available in Bangkok other than rice!

[canuckamuck]

Yes my kids are clearly quite sick of rice, It is quite an effort to get them to eat, particularly in the morning. They love my western food, but my wife doesn't want them to get used to it. They need to understand that rice is what they really love, they just don't know it yet.

Sick of rice? that's ridiculous.

[soalbundy]

I sympathize. I have an almost 7 year old son. Before he goes to school i make him breakfast otherwise his mother will just just give him noodles from a packet or a plate off rice,so i make him bacon and eggs with toast or chicken and rice. He is a lazy eater so i feed him otherwise he will just watch television and forget to eat.When he comes home from school his mother would let him use the computer for as long as he wants, i compromise,he has to learn to read English with me on the computer first, after which, instead of computer games he has to watch English speaking cartoons on Youtube for an hour ( unfortunately he has started to acquire a slight American accent due to this which i am trying to drum out of him ) I let him play games for an hour and then insist he goes out to play with the other boys in the village. I make sure he is in bed at 8 o'clock, seems to work well. You can't just rely on your wife, you have to correct certain things yourself ( without argument )

[KunMatt]

Children need love, not structure.

Your wife and MIL are going a good job, from what I read.

Thailand is a great place for kids to grow up, much more freedom and less fear.

It always confuses me when somebody writes something that completely contradicts my own experience from living here. One of my biggest irks is how FEAR was used as a tool to make my son do anything. My son's Isaan family have made him afraid of everything, even things that no rational person should be scared of. Sometimes there was a reason behind i.e. to make him do something like "There's a very bad man outside, you should eat all your food now or I'll tell the bad man to come and get you", or "there is a big spider under the bed, you need to go to sleep now or the spider will bite you". This might not sound too bad to an adult but these things made my son terrified of just about everything. Then there were things that they made him scared of for no reason, I guess for their own fun "look there's the moon, are you scared? you should be scared". And then there was induced fear with no foresight which was completely unhelpful later on "if you don't do this then I will take you to the doctor and he will hurt you", so when we actually did need to visit a doctor for a vaccination he was already terrified.

Irrational fear was used routinely to bully my son or force him to do things, and I hated it. I can also see the effect it has had on my wife as she has irrational fears of totally normal things which I assume is bred from this style of upbringing. There's nothing you can tell me which is going to convince me that this is a good method for raising kids cuz I've seen the effect it has on them when young and old.

Also, as per your first point. Children totally need a routine and structure to their day. I thought that this was obvious and widely accepted.

[Stradavarius37]

Children need love, not structure.

Your wife and MIL are going a good job, from what I read.

Thailand is a great place for kids to grow up, much more freedom and less fear.

Children need love AND structure.

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