LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling banned for life

[lungbing]

I wonder, do all black people sit at home saying how wonderful all white people are?

[lomatopo]

She'd Been Recording Conversations With Sterling at Sterling's Request

One of the biggest questions to emerge in the immediate aftermath of the tape was whether Sterling knew he was being taped during his conversation with Stiviano.

TMZ answers that question as follows: Sterling not only knew he was being taped, he actually asked Stiviano to tape him, and he did so frequently, in part because he would often forget pieces of conversations and use the tapes to refresh his memory.

http://www.heavy.com/news/2014/04/v-stiviano-donald-sterlings-girlfriend-racist-comments-tape/

Mrs. S appears to be a real gem as well...

She Was Accused of Posing as a Health Inspector & Discriminating Against Blacks & Hispanics

http://www.heavy.com/news/2014/04/donald-sterling-wife-rochelle-shelly-sterling-stein/

Magic Johnson is poised to lead a buy-out bid. I can just hear Mr. Sterling saying "I ain't sellin' to no ne**o."

[zydeco]

She'd Been Recording Conversations With Sterling at Sterling's Request

One of the biggest questions to emerge in the immediate aftermath of the tape was whether Sterling knew he was being taped during his conversation with Stiviano.

TMZ answers that question as follows: Sterling not only knew he was being taped, he actually asked Stiviano to tape him, and he did so frequently, in part because he would often forget pieces of conversations and use the tapes to refresh his memory.

http://www.heavy.com/news/2014/04/v-stiviano-donald-sterlings-girlfriend-racist-comments-tape/

Mrs. S appears to be a real gem as well...

She Was Accused of Posing as a Health Inspector & Discriminating Against Blacks & Hispanics

http://www.heavy.com/news/2014/04/donald-sterling-wife-rochelle-shelly-sterling-stein/

Magic Johnson is poised to lead a buy-out bid. I can just hear Mr. Sterling saying "I ain't sellin' to no ne**o."

Magic Johnson appears to be the front man for the Guggenheim Partnership, which the Wall Street Journal revealed just might have Michael Milken pulling the strings behind the curtain. Donald Stirling versus Michael Milken? Milken is a REAL criminal.

[ClutchClark]

Can you show me where his black players make less money than white players or have suffered some type of loss by the color of their skin?

He did win an ugly, protracted case brought against him by NBA great, and longtime Clippers GM, Elgin Baylor, for unfair termination and discrimination.

quotes:

Baylor also claimed that his salary had been frozen at $350,000 a year since 2003 while the Caucasian head coach was given a four-year, $22-million contract.

That coach was Mike Dunleavy, who became the teams general manager when Baylor left. Dunleavy, too, became embroiled in litigation with the Clippers to collect the remainder of the money owed on the contract after the team fired him in 2010. The Clippers accused Dunleavy of defrauding the team; an arbitrator awarded the former coach and general manager $13 million in 2011.

Mr. Sterling has also paid a lot of fines related to his treatment of minorities in the properties he rents.

In 2009, Sterling paid a $2.725 million settlement in a lawsuit brought by the Justice Department accusing him of systematically driving African-Americans, Latinos and families with children out of apartment buildings he owned.

They don't call him Slum-Lord Billionaire for nothing.

------------------

Hughes wanted to postpone surgery. The disease ran in the family, usually slowly. But after Coach Mike Dunleavy encouraged Hughes to get another opinion, the second doctor urged Hughes to have surgery quickly. When Hughes contacted the Clippers about his health insurance coverage, he was told the surgery was not covered. If they made an exception for him, they would have to do so for everyone.

You only answered one part of a number of questions I presented but thanks for even that.

And thankyou for a detailed response with supporting articles but none show that his black team members receive a lower salary due to the color of their skin.

GM Elgin Baylor: As you indicated, Baylor lost in court.

Coach Dunleavy: Dunleavy is white and got screwed, which suggests Sterling is a ruthless businessman against all races, he is an equal opportunity scumbag, which is different from a racist scumbag.

Slumlord discriminating against Blacks & Hispanics: Lost that in court so there is validity to it but it has nothing to do with his team. Also, Sterling got in trouble for renting only to Koreans. If I was an inner-city landlord I would want to rent to Koreans also. They are responsible and employed...so even though Sterling is a racist, his landlord policies could be equally based on good business.

Coach Hughes surgery: Purely a business decision and one that 95% of US employers make daily. If its not covered by insurance then its not covered by insurance--it is not the responsibility of the employer to pay. Something is missing from this news article, more research would show the insurance company considered it elective surgery. Insurance companies are scum.

No doubt Donald Sterling is a scumbag attorney and landlord but has his racism caused any black team members to suffer financial loss? None that has ever been proven.

Society now destroys people because they don't like his thoughts. What happens when they don't like yours?

[lomatopo]

Coach Dunleavy: Dunleavy is white and got screwed

OK, if by "screwed" you mean he was "awarded 13 million dollars by an arbitrator", then yes, he was "screwed".

I did say that Mr. Sterling "won" a somewhat pyrrhic victory against Mr. Baylor, the details of which revealed fairly obvious racism, discrimination and generally boorish behavior on his part towards a legend.

I do agree that turning down an employee's cancer treatment, when one is a billionaire, is indicative of savvy business principals. Having your own employees kick in for the payment for the treatment must have made Mr. Sterling very proud.

You have not shown that his black team members receive a lower salary due to the color of their skin.

Given the salary controls in the NBA this would be impossible to prove, and would be dumb on his part assuming he wanted to have a winning team. Attracting quality free agents like Chris Paul and a top-flight coach like Doc Rivers illustrates to me that he did not discriminate, for the Clippers, in the recent past.

[chooka]

Some of the best footballers in the Australian Football League (AFL) have been aboriginal players, Recently many Aboriginal players have put themselves in the National Draft and clubs have used high picks to draft them. These players in themselves alone failed to assimilate into the rigors of A class football and walked out on their clubs.

Many clubs are now privately reconsidering drafting aboriginal players. There has been some outcry of racism if they do not even tho they throw away draft picks and large salary caps.

Before people jump on me I am aboriginal.

[DP25]

I did say that Mr. Sterling "won" a somewhat pyrrhic victory against Mr. Baylor, the details of which revealed fairly obvious racism, discrimination and generally boorish behavior on his part towards a legend.

A legend on the court. As a GM he is widely regarded as one of, if not THE, worst in NBA history. Possibly the worst in any sport. Seems like there might be a reasons other than racism for the pay disparity between him and Mike

[Showbags]

Some of the best footballers in the Australian Football League (AFL) have been aboriginal players, Recently many Aboriginal players have put themselves in the National Draft and clubs have used high picks to draft them. These players in themselves alone failed to assimilate into the rigors of A class football and walked out on their clubs.

Many clubs are now privately reconsidering drafting aboriginal players. There has been some outcry of racism if they do not even tho they throw away draft picks and large salary caps.

Before people jump on me I am aboriginal.

They just wanna go walkabout bloke....

[chooka]

Some of the best footballers in the Australian Football League (AFL) have been aboriginal players, Recently many Aboriginal players have put themselves in the National Draft and clubs have used high picks to draft them. These players in themselves alone failed to assimilate into the rigors of A class football and walked out on their clubs.

Many clubs are now privately reconsidering drafting aboriginal players. There has been some outcry of racism if they do not even tho they throw away draft picks and large salary caps.

Before people jump on me I am aboriginal.

They just wanna go walkabout bloke....

Maybe true my friend and I see nothing racist in your post.

Some may but I do not.

[Fookhaht]

I must disagree. This recorded conversation shows his true feelings on race. He is a racist plain and simple and his views has no place in todays society.

Should all racists be rounded up and put in camps?

No, but anyone in a position of wealth, power, authority, and influence should be hounded out of their positions of influence over such a scene as in the sports world. Too many innocent lives to influence (thinking of sports-minded young people).

To have views like this toward any human because of their race......all I can say is that the man is morally bankrupt.

[spidermike007]

Can you show me where his black players make less money than white players or have suffered some type of loss by the color of their skin?

He did win an ugly, protracted case brought against him by NBA great, and longtime Clippers GM, Elgin Baylor, for unfair termination and discrimination.

quotes:

Baylor also claimed that his salary had been frozen at $350,000 a year since 2003 while the Caucasian head coach was given a four-year, $22-million contract.

That coach was Mike Dunleavy, who became the teams general manager when Baylor left. Dunleavy, too, became embroiled in litigation with the Clippers to collect the remainder of the money owed on the contract after the team fired him in 2010. The Clippers accused Dunleavy of defrauding the team; an arbitrator awarded the former coach and general manager $13 million in 2011.

Mr. Sterling has also paid a lot of fines related to his treatment of minorities in the properties he rents.

In 2009, Sterling paid a $2.725 million settlement in a lawsuit brought by the Justice Department accusing him of systematically driving African-Americans, Latinos and families with children out of apartment buildings he owned.

They don't call him Slum-Lord Billionaire for nothing.

Vortex of Outrage Has Long Trailed Clippers Owner

Donald Sterling Has a Public Record of Bad Behavior

LOS ANGELES When Kim Hughes, then an assistant coach for the Los Angeles Clippers, was found to have prostate cancer on the eve of training camp in 2004, he learned what it was like to work in Donald Sterlings world.

Hughes wanted to postpone surgery. The disease ran in the family, usually slowly. But after Coach Mike Dunleavy encouraged Hughes to get another opinion, the second doctor urged Hughes to have surgery quickly. When Hughes contacted the Clippers about his health insurance coverage, he was told the surgery was not covered. If they made an exception for him, they would have to do so for everyone.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-elgin-baylor-donald-sterling-20140426,0,877251.story

Thank you. Yes, it is true. I do hate bigots. Even when that crap it uttered in the privacy of ones home. Yes, I do hold him to a high standard. And I think NBA owners should be held to a higher standard than most others. This is consistent behavior, and not a one off event. He needs to go. Plain and simple.

[Credo]

May he long watch the games in the comfort of his own home, with his own TV in the company of whatever color people he wishes to invite.

[lomatopo]

I did say that Mr. Sterling "won" a somewhat pyrrhic victory against Mr. Baylor, the details of which revealed fairly obvious racism, discrimination and generally boorish behavior on his part towards a legend.

A legend on the court. As a GM he is widely regarded as one of, if not THE, worst in NBA history. Possibly the worst in any sport. Seems like there might be a reasons other than racism for the pay disparity between him and Mike

And Mr. Sterling continued to employ Mr. Baylor for twenty-two years because he was "...widely regarded as one of, if not THE, worst in NBA history. Possibly the worst in any sport."

I bet you're going to have some logical explanation?

(By the way, Mr. Baylor was let go because of age discrimination, in my opinion. There were conversations and documents which clearly mentioned this, but the jury evidently felt that Mr. Baylor's termination was justified based on "At-Will Employment" contract law/precedent which is very clear.)

They did make the playoffs fours times in that period, and Mr. Sterling pretty much second-guessed Mr. Baylor at nearly every turn, dictating draft, trade, contract issues.

I would encourage you to read Jeff Perlman's nugget about the Clippers trying to recruit Rollie Massimino as coach in 1983.

It is interesting that, save for a few yahoos on anonymous internet forums and The Donald, no one is publicly defending or standing up for Mr. Sterling.

[DP25]

He was GM for 22 years. During his 22 years leading the team, he amassed a record of 607 wins and 1153 loses. He had a grand total of TWO winning seasons during his time at helm.

He was let go because he was a failure.

I'm hardly alone in considering him one of the worst NBA GMs of all time.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keri/080925

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/777078-nba-power-rankings-isiah-thomas-and-the-10-worst-gms-in-league-history/page/11

Maybe there are a few that were worse, it's arguable. Isiah Thomas and Kevin McHale were also NBA legends there were complete disasters as GM. Great players aren't always great managers.

[lomatopo]

He was GM for 22 years. During his 22 years leading the team, he amassed a record of 607 wins and 1153 loses. He had a grand total of TWO winning seasons during his time at helm.

He was let go because he was a failure.

I'm hardly alone in considering him one of the worst NBA GMs of all time.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keri/080925

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/777078-nba-power-rankings-isiah-thomas-and-the-10-worst-gms-in-league-history/page/11

Maybe there are a few that were worse, it's arguable. Isiah Thomas and Kevin McHale were also NBA legends there were complete disasters as GM. Great players aren't always great managers.

And Mr. Sterling continued to employ Mr. Baylor for twenty-two years because he was such a horrible GM?

Does that honestly make any sense to you?

It is widely acknowledged that Mr. Sterling interfered in the daily running of the club, changing his mind constantly and over-riding most of Mr. Baylor's efforts. Heck, he even tried to overturn the Chris Paul "gift/trade" at the last second.

[DP25]

He was kept because he was cheap and provided a famous face for the franchise. Sterling didn't care if the Clippers had a horrible GM and lost every season, he cared about his own profit. I'm not absolving him for the Clippers poor performance either, he is a cheap b****** who wouldn't put in the funds to build a good team. No other owner would have kept Baylor on for so long, Sterling is responsible for this too. But it was not racism or ageism that resulted in his dismissal. No team would put up with a GM like Baylor. It's not like you see Baylor getting any offers from other teams.

[lomatopo]

It's not like you see Baylor getting any offers from other teams.

Well he was 74 years old when he was let go by the Clippers, so the fact that he didn't get any other offers of employment shouldn't be all that surprising.

I know it is impossible to support, but I am fairly certain Mr. Baylor would have had a much better record had he been allowed to run the team without the constant interference of Mr. Sterling.

At-will Employment pretty much means you can be let go immediately, and without reason. But there were some documents, and conversations, which indicated the Clippers felt Mr. Baylor was too old to continue. This could be construed to be age discrimination. Obviously, a normal owner would have worked out a favorable termination package for such a long-term employee, and allowed him to retire with grace and dignity.

I agree that it is the owner's prerogative to manage the team, GM and all aspects of the club, if he wants, just as it is his right to dictate to his paramour(s) who they should be allowed to be photographed with.

[canman]

If Magic Johnson was caught in a similar position, that is to say a recording made public of him telling his GF not to show up at Dodgers game with a white guy would there be such a public out cry? Would there be calls to ban him from baseball and would he be forced to sell the team?

[lomatopo]

If Magic Johnson was caught in a similar position, that is to say a recording made public of him telling his GF not to show up at Dodgers game with a white guy would there be such a public out cry? Would there be calls to ban him from baseball and would he be forced to sell the team?

Is this some sort of hypothetical question? Or are you implying the Magic Johnson has a GF who may be what, black? white?, and this GF hangs out with white guys?

Assuming it's a hypothetical question I'm not sure it can be answered, without massive conjecture and room for huge error.

I assume that if Magic Johnson say had a black girlfriend, and if this fictional GF routinely hung out with white men, and Magic was recorded saying that he didn't want her to be photographed in the company of white men, that yes, there would be significant negative public response. I think his stake in the Dodgers is microscopic ( 1% ~ 4 % ). I think he sold his small stake in the Lakers a few years ago.

But it's a nutty question, about as likely as Mr. Sterling regaining a full head of hair, or his treating all minorities with decency and respect.

[Jingthing]

It's an interesting case.

The man's private words show he is a bigot. A weird kind of bigot, but a bigot nonetheless. A strong element of his feelings seem to be about his face and not seen to be cuckolded by black men specifically PUBLICLY. He doesn't care about privately.

But they were private comments. He never meant to make them public. There is no evidence his public policies or actions have been motivated by bias against black people.

So is what happened to him fair? I don't know. Frankly, I really don't care. It's a sports league. They can make their own rules and they do.

Another interesting part of this is to directly COMPARE this case to the recent incident at Mozilla with the CEO who was internally pressured to resign due to anti-gay civil rights ACTIONS, not private speech. That item attracted a MASSIVE right wing backlash against gay people, blaming the gays for what happened to this straight man, calling gays the GAYSTAPO.

Now in this incident, the right wing is not attacking black people, is not using it as fuel for an anti-black civil rights BACKLASH, not calling black power, the Black Mafia.

Conclusion -- African Americans are MUCH FURTHER along in their civil rights struggle than gay Americans. And they've got the PRESIDENT!

[pmugghc]

Is it even legal to secretly record conversations? Where I come from the woman would be prosecuted.

Edit: just saw the guy had asked her to do it.

[lomatopo]

Is it even legal to secretly record conversations? Where I come from the woman would be prosecuted.

It has been reported that Ms. V. Stiviano routinely records conversations at the specific request of Mr. Sterling as he is becoming more forgetful in his golden years.

Note that the conflict appears to be between Mrs. Sterling and Ms. V. Staviano, at the present time.

So it is probably legal.

There are incredibly significant tax implications, to the tune of ~ $300 million, for the Sterlings, if forced to sell before his death: Capital Gains Tax vs. Estate Tax. I would expect the team would remain in the family until after his death, unless the other owners, or a buyer, agrees to cover that nut.

Was it legal to record and release Sterling's racist rant?

Sterling has confirmed it is his voice expressing racist views on audio of a private conversation that was leaked to the media. Some who have followed Sterling over the years say he had shown this side before and the leaked audio led to public outcry too loud for the NBA commissioner to ignore.

Stiviano's lawyer, however, told the Los Angeles Times that Sterling knew he was being recorded. The lawyer, Mac Nehoray, declined to tell the Times why Stiviano recorded the conversation, but said it was "by mutual agreement," he told the Times.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/30/us/nba-sterling-legality/

[jamhar]

I'm not a lawyer (yea! ) but after a quick glance, I couldnt find a justification for forcing Sterling to sell the clips in the following posted NBA Document.

http://fansided.com/2014/04/29/read-nba-constitution-laws-online/#!G8dXR

I'm only casually interested so i didnt spend more than 5 mins on it.

Interesting reading tho.

If the doc is genuine.

[canman]

It's an interesting case.

The man's private words show he is a bigot. A weird kind of bigot, but a bigot nonetheless. A strong element of his feelings seem to be about his face and not seen to be cuckolded by black men specifically PUBLICLY. He doesn't care about privately.

But they were private comments. He never meant to make them public. There is no evidence his public policies or actions have been motivated by bias against black people.

So is what happened to him fair? I don't know. Frankly, I really don't care. It's a sports league. They can make their own rules and they do.

Another interesting part of this is to directly COMPARE this case to the recent incident at Mozilla with the CEO who was internally pressured to resign due to anti-gay civil rights ACTIONS, not private speech. That item attracted a MASSIVE right wing backlash against gay people, blaming the gays for what happened to this straight man, calling gays the GAYSTAPO.

Now in this incident, the right wing is not attacking black people, is not using it as fuel for an anti-black civil rights BACKLASH, not calling black power, the Black Mafia.

Conclusion -- African Americans are MUCH FURTHER along in their civil rights struggle than gay Americans. And they've got the PRESIDENT!

Hey, you guys have the prez as well; he just hasn't come out yet

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, he has done a lot more to help gays than black people.

[jamhar]

Sterling is going to make a ton of money!

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-perfect-storm--why-the-sale-of-the-clippers-will-likely-surpass-1-billion-2014-5

And i recall Cuban being open to forcing Sterling out initially. But now it sounds like he's backtracking.... again! lol

http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-cuban-on-donald-sterling-2014-4

[lomatopo]

I'm not a lawyer (yea! ) but after a quick glance, I couldnt find a justification for forcing Sterling to sell the clips in the following posted NBA Document.

Yes, this is being debated, and I didn't read the entire "Constitution" and "By-laws" either, but believe the owners can force another owner to sell based on a 3/4's vote, presumably based on specific and general issues, including damage to the league/brand.

"I don't think Mr. Sterling has any basis for a legal claim, period. The decision by Adam Silver is grounded in the NBA's constitution and its bylaws — which Mr. Sterling agreed to and signed — and any challenge would be considered as an arbitration decision and not by the courts," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/04/29/column-new-nba-boss-vows-to-rip-not-for-sale-sign-off-sterling-clippers/

I can only assume that the NBA, commish, owners are hoping for a Marge Schott-like outcome?

Game 6, Clippers vs. Warriors is on live now, TrueVisions NBA HD Ch. 674.

In an interview with Fox, Mr. Sterling said that the Clippers are not for sale.

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/29/5665710/donald-sterling-la-clippers-sale-punishment

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3520643610001/jim-gray-donald-sterling-says-clippers-not-for-sale/#sp=show-clips

[Jingthing]

Actually, he has done a lot more to help gays than black people.

That's an incredibly deceptive comment. African Americans already enjoy equal civil rights under U.S. laws (federal and states) and also legal protection from discrimination. Gay Americans do not enjoy either of those.

This connecting of the African American and gay issues might be more relevant even than I originally thought.

A potential buyer for the Clippers, DAVID GEFFEN, the richest and most powerful American gay man in history. If he buys it he would be the first (out) gay owner of a major American sports team:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/david-geffen-interested-buying-l-clippers-source-054933656--nba.html

[jamhar]

I'm not a lawyer (yea! ) but after a quick glance, I couldnt find a justification for forcing Sterling to sell the clips in the following posted NBA Document.

Yes, this is being debated, and I didn't read the entire "Constitution" and "By-laws" either, but believe the owners can force another owner to sell based on a 3/4's vote, presumably based on specific and general issues, including damage to the league/brand.

"I don't think Mr. Sterling has any basis for a legal claim, period. The decision by Adam Silver is grounded in the NBA's constitution and its bylaws — which Mr. Sterling agreed to and signed — and any challenge would be considered as an arbitration decision and not by the courts," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/04/29/column-new-nba-boss-vows-to-rip-not-for-sale-sign-off-sterling-clippers/

I can only assume that the NBA, commish, owners are hoping for a Marge Schott-like outcome?

Game 6, Clippers vs. Warriors is on live now, TrueVisions NBA HD Ch. 674.

In an interview with Fox, Mr. Sterling said that the Clippers are not for sale.

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/29/5665710/donald-sterling-la-clippers-sale-punishment

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3520643610001/jim-gray-donald-sterling-says-clippers-not-for-sale/#sp=show-clips

Actually the "3/4 rule" for ousting an owner is very specific. and I didnt see anything that could be interpreted as "misconduct" as in this case.

"The Membership of a Member or the interest of any Owner

may be terminated by a vote of three fourths (3/4) of the Board of

Governors if the Member or Owner shall do or suffer any of the

following:

(a) Willfully violate any of the provisions of the

Constitution and By-Laws, resolutions, or agreements of the

Association.

(b )Transfer or attempt to transfer a Membership or an

interest in a Member without complying with the provisions of Article 5.

( c) Fail to pay any dues or other indebtedness owing to

the Association within thirty (30) days after Written Notice from the

Commissioner of default in such payment.

(d) Fail or refuse to fulfill its contractual obligations to

the Association, its Members, Players, or any other third party in such a

way as to affect the Association or its Members adversely.

(e) Wager or countenance wagering by its officers or

employees on any game in which a Team operated by a Member of the

Association participates.

(f) bla bla bla

..."

This language starts on page 26 i believe.

I dont see a mechenasim for ousting yet.

But I see one hell of a sh*tstorm developing!

and a bunch of happy lawyers!

PS thanks for the links on the interview.

[lomatopo]

((d) Fail or refuse to fulfill its contractual obligations to

the Association, its Members, Players, or any other third party in such a

way as to affect the Association or its Members adversely.

There are a lot of legal analyses out there which have highlighted this section, specifically the bolded/italics wording. One could argue that Mr/ Sterling's comments have adversely affected the "Association"?

Who knows, I'm not a lawyer.

Unless Mr. Sterling sells, the Clippers will lose fans, season ticket holders, sponsors; no players or coaches will want to work for them and they'll become the equivalent of the Washington Generals, and the value of the franchise will drop precipitously.

I think if the capital gains tax issue can be ameliorated, then a sale might go through. I understand Mr. Sterling is also battling cancer, so his death would remove the capital gain issue, making it a much smaller estate tax issue.

There is no shortage of interested buyers.

FWIW, the Clippers lost game 6 100-99 to the Warriors, so will have to try and win a game 7 at the Staples Center on Saturday.