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Posted

Note -

- Yingluk is not up on any Criminal Charges. lets all be clear of this. This is simply an issue of whether or not she did her job properly. No criminal charges.

- She is charged with failure to take action when told that there MAY be mismanagment of the Rice Scheme.

- She is charged with improper firing of an employee.

- The PDRC folks stands in the streets in honor of a man that is up on Insurrection charges.

- The Dem's Leader is up on Murder Charges.

I suppose you get the point.

the de facto leader of the government is a convicted criminal on the run

I suppose YOU get the point

The defacto leader lives in Bangkok not Dubai. If Thaksin was so powerful why is he 'on the run' as you put it?

Who is this mysterious Bangkokian?

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Posted

The PM doesn't even oversee the Rice Scheme. The GOVERMENT set it up so that the Commerce Dept. oversees the Rice Scheme Administration.

So why isn't the head of Commerce Dept. being removed?

This is all just politics. Let it be in Thailand.

Of course the acting PM didn't oversee the Rice scheme.,..... as she never attended a meeting of the board even though she appointed herself as the Chairperson.

Why do you think she has been summoned to the NACC ???? Have you just arrived in Thailand ??? If not, I suggest you catch up on things before making ill informed posts.

  • Like 2
Posted

Go ahead and lodge the complaint with the Dems/PDRC....we all know that they setup the NACC and the NACC works for them. Its truly a job.

A few farmers complain of improprieties...(Since they haven't been paid)..and now, they try to unseat the PM. ONLY IN THAILAND!!

"A few farmers complain" blink.png

There were surely several hundred thousand farmers, who were late-paid, or are still waiting !

While the person who is supposed to chair the committee fails-to-show, not just once or twice due to other pressing-duties, but every time it meets ? facepalm.gif

'Negligent' is a kind description IMO, for the way she's been treating the poor rice-farmers, who helped vote her party into-power.

  • Like 1
Posted

Bkk Post has an article where Transparency International is urging the government to stop intimidating the NACC.

For people thinking that report are BP propaganda you can read the statement on International Transparency webpages. They urged Government and Their supporter to stop intimidating NACC

NACC is recognize as one of world anti-graft agency. IT report is very difficult in Thailand to investigated on important political figure in graft allegation.

IT support work of NACC in this case.....

Mr SURAPONG a comment ?

Posted

Amazing how everyone bitches about Yingluck wanting more witnesses, time, rice checks and call it intimidation. What about Suthep completely defying the court by not turning up because he is busy inciting insurrection?

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off topic

this is about yingluck

Your opinion. So I guess now you want me thrown out of Thailand as well. Or jailed as a minimum.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

?

Why should I?

neither democratic style nor integrity style

Posted

National Anti-Corruption Commission has already been categorically clear on the subject:

More witnesses? Not allowed.

We already have the necessary information...(to convict YS?)

To deny witnesses to a defendant shows bias.

So much for impartiality.

The NACC are clearly not on the side of blind justice. Then again, TIT

What exactly do PTP think - a show of hands will not win their case neither will setting the dogs loose or the daily threats of violence, the sooner this matter is dealt with the better then the missing billions can be investigated properly and the PTP/red thieves locked up

Posted (edited)

The lawyer is quite correct as the NACC, Constitutional Court etc regularly defy PTP law.

I think that the laws in most democratic countries would allow the defendant to call any witness they need. By denying Yinluck the chance to call witnesses to prove her lack of guilt, the NACC are showing themselves to be biased.

In Taksin's trial there were prosicution witnesses called who gave evidence when Taksin's lawyer was not allowed to be present.

The courts in Thailand need reform.

I don't believe that is correct. I think there is a limit to how many witnesses and possibly whether they are relevant, otherwise some trial could go on until the defense has called a few billion witnesses. Having said that, I think that the NACC has made a mistake. Even if the witnesses are totally irrelevant, they should have allowed them to avoid the appearance of doing anything incorrectly. Of course, this is the NACC. It's up to the Senate to decide what to do with the recommendation of the NACC.

If there is enough evidence already yo convict,

then larding in hundreds of witness to stall the conviction would be a logical defence move.

One that should be cut off at the past by the NACC.

Edited by animatic
  • Like 1
Posted

Note -

- Yingluk is not up on any Criminal Charges. lets all be clear of this. This is simply an issue of whether or not she did her job properly. No criminal charges.

- She is charged with failure to take action when told that there MAY be mismanagment of the Rice Scheme.

- She is charged with improper firing of an employee.

- The PDRC folks stands in the streets in honor of a man that is up on Insurrection charges.

- The Dem's Leader is up on Murder Charges.

I suppose you get the point.

the de facto leader of the government is a convicted criminal on the run

I suppose YOU get the point

The defacto leader lives in Bangkok not Dubai. If Thaksin was so powerful why is he 'on the run' as you put it?

on the run...because a guilty spineless coward you even know that...and other charges awaiting his return ...hence the amnesty bill....yay get it now...

  • Like 1
Posted

The PM doesn't even oversee the Rice Scheme. The GOVERMENT set it up so that the Commerce Dept. oversees the Rice Scheme Administration.

So why isn't the head of Commerce Dept. being removed?

This is all just politics. Let it be in Thailand.

She is the chairperson of the Rice scam so is responsible for the B600bt that has disappeared.

Just because she didn't attend most of the meetings doesn't mean she didn't know what was going on as her brother set the whole scam up so as to fleece Thailand.

The fact that she didn't attend many of the meeting is proof of her incompetence and therefore she will be found guilty

B600bt that has disappeared. Not true, money has not 'disappeared' and your number is just some exaggerated propganda.

if it hasnt disappeared why have the farmers not been paid since october 2013...waiting for the funny spin on this....suphep perhaps yes...

  • Like 1
Posted

The PM doesn't even oversee the Rice Scheme. The GOVERMENT set it up so that the Commerce Dept. oversees the Rice Scheme Administration.

So why isn't the head of Commerce Dept. being removed?

This is all just politics. Let it be in Thailand.

She is the chairperson of the Rice scam so is responsible for the B600bt that has disappeared.

Just because she didn't attend most of the meetings doesn't mean she didn't know what was going on as her brother set the whole scam up so as to fleece Thailand.

The fact that she didn't attend many of the meeting is proof of her incompetence and therefore she will be found guilty

B600bt that has disappeared. Not true, money has not 'disappeared' and your number is just some exaggerated propganda.

So the rice pledging scheme was working as planned after all?

Thought the government denies loses, then denied the scope of loses, then couldn't decide between two lose estimates, then had trouble presenting budget and figures to the NACC.

If the scheme was supposed to lose money, allowances should have been made in the budget to cover predicted loses.

If by "not true" you mean "my dog ate it", fine. Otherwise, where's the money?

Posted

The lawyer is quite correct as the NACC, Constitutional Court etc regularly defy PTP law.

I think that the laws in most democratic countries would allow the defendant to call any witness they need. By denying Yinluck the chance to call witnesses to prove her lack of guilt, the NACC are showing themselves to be biased.

In Taksin's trial there were prosicution witnesses called who gave evidence when Taksin's lawyer was not allowed to be present.

The courts in Thailand need reform.

No difference between the NACC and a Kangaroo Court. It is all a farce and rigged to bring down a democratically elected gov't.

  • Like 2
Posted

The PM doesn't even oversee the Rice Scheme. The GOVERMENT set it up so that the Commerce Dept. oversees the Rice Scheme Administration.

So why isn't the head of Commerce Dept. being removed?

This is all just politics. Let it be in Thailand.

She is the chairperson of the Rice scam so is responsible for the B600bt that has disappeared.

Just because she didn't attend most of the meetings doesn't mean she didn't know what was going on as her brother set the whole scam up so as to fleece Thailand.

The fact that she didn't attend many of the meeting is proof of her incompetence and therefore she will be found guilty

B600bt that has disappeared. Not true, money has not 'disappeared' and your number is just some exaggerated propganda.

The entire program was budgeted and designed to lose money! And, again, the Commerce Dept. administered the program.

There was never a day that this program was funded to be positive cashflow. It was always funded to lose money. Its just a fact.

Of coures much rice is waiting to be sold, so for this year, there is an excess of cash being used to supplement temporarily..but negative cashflow for the program is part of the design.

The government denied, at the time, that there were losses.

It was based on a silly premise that Thailand could control rice prices globally.

There were a lot of warnings that this would be unattainable and backfire on the country. The government went ahead with the scheme anyway.

The quality of the rice in government stock isn't improving, and it's value is quickly declines. This without considering other global effects on rice prices.

Apparently the government did not bother to reserve enough money to cover such "expected" losses. This could be attributed either to incompetence and negligence or to plain graft.

If you wish to claim this was planned, than by all means, lets point a finger on who set up this ridiculous notion in the first place.

Posted

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Note -

- Yingluk is not up on any Criminal Charges. lets all be clear of this. This is simply an issue of whether or not she did her job properly. No criminal charges.

- She is charged with failure to take action when told that there MAY be mismanagment of the Rice Scheme.

- She is charged with improper firing of an employee.

- The PDRC folks stands in the streets in honor of a man that is up on Insurrection charges.

- The Dem's Leader is up on Murder Charges.

I suppose you get the point.

NO, what's your point?

Are you suggesting that because other people are on charges then yingluck should just not be investigated?

What's your point?

No, I agree that its fine that Yingluk is being investigated.

but investigations for mismanagement (Non Criminal) and investigations for Criminal acts are 2 very different situations.

For all the Nay sayers.. Yingluk has never been accused or investigated by any goverment authorities for criminal acts.

Never mind criminal or not. It is all part of a maneuver and create similar circumstances to "convict" her as her brother was.

1- resign en mass and parallel to that a street protest to drum up the mantra of "Shin clan and regime" bad.

2- resignation en mass by the Dems would make of YS a caretaker PM and tie the hands of the government to seek financing for the rice subsidy.

3- unrest amongst the farmers who are yet to be paid. and... so, the "sympathetic" courts and NACC would be tipped in favor of the protestors garnering prestige in the public eye.

4- the final stage will be a) a judicial coup or, B) an army coup if, there is civil unrest and clashes between the Suthepistas and Reds.

Meanwhile, the image of Thailand not being a stable country for foreign investment becomes obvious.

Do courts and Suthepistas care what is that doing to the country's economy? Losses in tourism revenue alone.

Do they for a second ponder that in the South there may be a worsening of unrest that can hit Bangkok?

Do Democrats are in favor of the Rule of Law? Or, they are more in favor the Golden Rule? Those with the Gold rule.

  • Like 1
Posted

When Pheu Thai wins the next election collection aka vote rigging, it can indeed be game over for the NACC, the constitutional court and the rest of the independent agencies, because the ruling party will by ALL MEANS abuse their power with a vengeance and hunt Thawil and any other political rebel down like dogs...

... wanna bet?

Posted

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Bkk Post has an article where Transparency International is urging the government to stop intimidating the NACC.

Every good member of TV has also been conveying that message , it borders on contempt of court.

Have you not noticed the PTP and their hired goons the ThaiRouge base their principles on intimidation ? Anyone who is not aware of this fact is not even trying.

This is nowhere near contempt of court, it is stark reality. Anyone who does not co-operate with the Shin regime cops the same treatment. Ask any of the opposition parties who dared to campaign in red areas. Well, you cannot ask some of them as they are dead. thumbsup.gif

Posted

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I hope the NACC is going to take into account the complete barrage of threats and intimidation that are coming from PT boot lickers daily and tack those charges on to the rest. Every person involved in PT should be banned from politics for life, no questions, no ifs, ands or buts. BUlly boy tactics have no place in a real properly functioning 'democracy'. T%his is why we need reforms NOW ! PT = Detritus of the worst sort !

Yes, I suppose the Suthep / PDRC team has not intimidated any public citizen, any goverment office, any nation over the past 6 months?

Damn..that Yingluk is so terrible! Its almost comical when you have a person with arrest warrantes walking the streets, stopping traffic, shutting down commerce, costing the nations billions..and shutting down goverments. That Yingluk is sooo bad.

Fab4?

Fabio is only a troll, not in the same ballpark. biggrin.png

  • Like 2
Posted

Maybe people are confused. Yingluck Sae Khu has been trying to slow the process at every step of the way, in order to stay in her illigitimate office. She asked for more tine twice. And came up with a first batch of witnesses to slow it even further. And then came up with these witnesses when proceedings were actually finished. Let s keep things straight. You can t keep on putting off a decision of the obvious. Its a SCAM to enrich her Amart friends. The slaves are the poor farmers. They have been cheated long enough.

  • Like 2
Posted

I read in the BP that the NACC said that the reason the extra witnesses for Yingluk were not allowed was because they ( the NACC ) had all the evidence they needed.

So much for being innocent until proven guilty. coffee1.gif

Perhaps a better explanation is that they now have all the evidence that can possibly be presented to them, both for and against Yingluck and the PTP, and they now feel that it's now time to put an end to all of these delaying tactics and consider all of the evidence that they have.

Its all very well to talk about delaying tactics in the case against Yingluk , but the fact is that similar cases against the previous administration appear to have been swept under the carpet altogether since absolutely no progress or sense of urgency seems to have been attached to those cases.

One of the real reforms Thailand does need is for the law to be applied equally to everyone. Yinglucks case has leapfrogged

others , which many people deem to be an example of outside interference in the work of the NACC.

Neither Abhisit nor Suthep gave any specific orders for soldiers to go out there and kill people,

Actually, I was not referring to the 2010 protest deaths but rather the outstanding graft cases against the Democrat party.

However since you have bought it up I will point out your choice of words :

' Neither Abhisit nor Suthep gave any specific orders for soldiers to go out there and kill people '

This is basically the defense that Yingluk is using, that although her administration were responsible for the rice pledging scheme it was not Yingluk or any senior people who implemented it.

At no time was Yingluk seen at rice warehouses piling bags of rice into her Merc at the back door any more than Abhisit or Suthep were doing the same or sneaking out at night dressed in black bumping of red shirt protesters.

If we are to accept that the buck stops at the top, and personally , I think it should, it is only fair to apply the same rule to everyone rather than being selective about it. Abhisit has called upon Yingluk to accept responsibility for all sorts of things and yet he himself has not admitted personal responsibility either for the graft under the Democrat administration or the 2010 deaths.

Cleaning up Thai politics does not only mean ridding the country of Thaksin and his proxies ( which is the only definite reform Suthep has so far proposed ) . It means that everybody should be under the law and treated in the same way . Clearly, in Thailand, this is never going to happen.

  • Like 2
Posted

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Lets be clear. The Rice Scheme Committee was a committed that organized and proposed the Rice Schedule to Congress.

Once the Goverment approved the Rice Scheme, the Commerce Dept. was assigned the responsibility to manage/administer the rice scheme.

Committees only prepare the bills. They do not approve or manage the programs.

This is the difference.

We'll see how the NCAA deals with this. Interesting situation actually.

So you attempt to make some case that she was not involved in any way, she had no need or in fact any responsibility to monitor the program and it's implementation. and it's therefore unfair to investigate her.

How many people do you think you will convince? My guess - zero.

You seem to think that everybody is unaware and stupid. I suggest you need to get up a bit earlier.

  • Like 1
Posted

Hurry up and lodge your complaint to the courts so it can be instantly thrown out and they can get on with the job of cutting this cancer out of the nation before any more damage is done.... Just ask where the 600 Bn baht is... not the rice.... THE MONEY!!!!!

The rice scheme is CORRUPT from end to end, so stop standing there threatening to sue the agencies and show us where the 600 Bn went.

Sadly for you no it's not corrupt.

The money your Democrat MP claimed had been stolen to Hong Kong, total lie. NACC could find no evidence of stolen money and the MP didn't have any when they asked him, he was just telling porkies.

The smuggling claim (claims that large amounts of rice are smuggled across the border and sold to the rice pledge scheme) fails the basic maths test.

The rice you claimed was being resold many times to the rice pledge scheme, was not true, NACC first tried to prove missing stocks, and couldn't prove any missing stocks. It then switched to pretending that it's failure to do a full stock take to prove complete stocks constituted evidence of missing stock. Which is a reversed logic. Lack of proof of positive is not proof of negative.

"I can't prove the dog is white, hence the dog is black."

Is also true for a white dog, if you refuse to open your eyes and look at the color of the dog.

Likewise NACC is trying to substitute "we can't prove the G2G deal was authorised by the Chinese govt at the time" into "G2G was really G2B+corruption".

The negligence in not stopping corruption claim that NACC hasn't found and proved. Well if NACC can't find and prove corruption and its their job, how can she be more negligent than they?

Normally to make a logic mistake like this would be negligence, but to actually state this as the basis for a prosectution would raise that to malfeasance, since the mistake has been pointed out to them and they have declined to fix the mistake.

As I've mentioned before these problems with the independent agencies stem from the way they're chosen. The senate was made half unelected by the coup changes of 2006. The Senate chooses the Independent agencies commissioners and a committee of independent agencies chooses the appointed half of the senate!

Yingluk tried to reform this, by making the Senate fully elected, and the elected senate would wead out any apparachiks over time, while an appointed senate appointed by apparachiks would itself be stuff full of apparachiks and in turn appoint yet more apparachiks to the independent agencies. The democrats blocked that reform.

And sadly, the initial seeding of these was chosen by a coup general, and he apparently kept control of the senate appointments in the background, making the whole process basically a front for the coup.

A huge tome in response to Woopy Doo, but one which simply fails to answer the very basic question that he asked ... where's the money gone?

...and your assessment of the Shin attempt to take over control of the Senate is just mind-boggling...!!

You walk into Tesco, buy rice, you come out with rice. "where's the money gone!" Perhaps you can answer your own question?

And reforming the Senate to make it elected, is not a Shin take over of the Senate. It's a democratic peoples senate, as was the case before the coup general interfered with it.

I buy rice at Tesco, so that's where the missing billions have gone...?! That, old chap, must go down as the most pathetic rebuttal ever of a serious question on this forum...!!

And the whole raison detre for the Shin clan to have the senate elected was so they could take over complete control of it and force through any bill that they wished; that is why the case is being investigated. There is nothing democratic about a government which has a majority of seats in the house wanting to change things so that they become reliant on a majority vote by parliamentary members...!!

  • Like 1
Posted

Perhaps a better explanation is that they now have all the evidence that can possibly be presented to them, both for and against Yingluck and the PTP, and they now feel that it's now time to put an end to all of these delaying tactics and consider all of the evidence that they have.

Its all very well to talk about delaying tactics in the case against Yingluk , but the fact is that similar cases against the previous administration appear to have been swept under the carpet altogether since absolutely no progress or sense of urgency seems to have been attached to those cases.

One of the real reforms Thailand does need is for the law to be applied equally to everyone. Yinglucks case has leapfrogged

others , which many people deem to be an example of outside interference in the work of the NACC.

Neither Abhisit nor Suthep gave any specific orders for soldiers to go out there and kill people,

Actually, I was not referring to the 2010 protest deaths but rather the outstanding graft cases against the Democrat party.

However since you have bought it up I will point out your choice of words :

' Neither Abhisit nor Suthep gave any specific orders for soldiers to go out there and kill people '

This is basically the defense that Yingluk is using, that although her administration were responsible for the rice pledging scheme it was not Yingluk or any senior people who implemented it.

At no time was Yingluk seen at rice warehouses piling bags of rice into her Merc at the back door any more than Abhisit or Suthep were doing the same or sneaking out at night dressed in black bumping of red shirt protesters.

If we are to accept that the buck stops at the top, and personally , I think it should, it is only fair to apply the same rule to everyone rather than being selective about it. Abhisit has called upon Yingluk to accept responsibility for all sorts of things and yet he himself has not admitted personal responsibility either for the graft under the Democrat administration or the 2010 deaths.

Cleaning up Thai politics does not only mean ridding the country of Thaksin and his proxies ( which is the only definite reform Suthep has so far proposed ) . It means that everybody should be under the law and treated in the same way . Clearly, in Thailand, this is never going to happen.

...she was the Chairperson of the Rice Committee forchrisake...!!! How does the chairperson not shoulder responsibility for the implementation of the scam scheme and indeed, not even bother to oversee it..??!!!!

  • Like 2
Posted

Bkk Post has an article where Transparency International is urging the government to stop intimidating the NACC.

Source please. How is this intimidation? It seems it is the NACC that is intimidating the PM by not allowing the PM to defend herself. Perhaps they have long ago made up their minds on this case.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Google is your wise friend:

http://www.transparency.org/news/feature/fighting_corruption_the_role_of_the_anti_corruption_commission

Flickr_kitty_chirapongse_620b.jpg

  • Like 1
Posted

The PM doesn't even oversee the Rice Scheme. The GOVERMENT set it up so that the Commerce Dept. oversees the Rice Scheme Administration.

So why isn't the head of Commerce Dept. being removed?

This is all just politics. Let it be in Thailand.

Mark Twain said, "It is better to remain silent and let people think you are ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". Ms Yingluck, as PM, appointed herself as Chairwoman of the Rice Pledging Scheme, which means she, herself, assumed hands-on responsibility of administering the program. Please don't write on subjects you don't know about. It reflects poorly on you and people who do keep up with the facts won't take you seriously. Of course, if you were just being a Thaksin troll, then jolly good, I took the bait; you were a successful troll.

  • Like 2

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