Russian denied entry at Phuket International Airport over 'visa' crackdown

[moonwolf]

Mariia Sgibneva. Assistant Manager, Sea bees diving just wondering

[ATF]

We checked Mariias information, it showed that she had frequently gone to Ranong for visa runs. This is often a sign of someone illegally working in Phuket, Prapansak Prasansuk, chief of Immigration at the airport.

Good point. So how does this woman financially support herself while staying in Thailand?

The one thing I learned over my many years here, is not to ask another farang what they do in Thailand? But now it seems they will have to prove and justify what they do in the country and why they are here.

At last the Thai authorities have begun showing their teeth and no longer is it the case of idle threats. It begins.

Better becareful BJ, could be you next

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yeah the way you carry on I wouldn't be surprised if the cops found a suspicious package in your car or your in-laws just clubbed you to death.

[simon43]

So that's say, 1200 baht an hour the school gets, and what does the teacher get? If a Thai, about 200 baht an hour ...

He is running a business, not a charity.

Whilst I'm waiting on the registration of my new Thai company, (and the docs that I need to get a B visa and WP), I am signing up to study conversational Chinese for 3 months, (private lessons), which will give me an ED visa to 'fill the gap' so that I don't need to do back-to-back visa-runs.

The language school that provides these lessons has a good reputation, but even they asked me 'do you really want to attend lessons or do you just need the ED visa?'

I suspect that the lure of easy money has tempted many language schools to offer ED visas and not be concerned whether or not the student actually attends the lessons.

Now if I need to extend my ED visa after 3 months, the test of my Chinese language abilities should be fun at Phuket Immigration office...

[ExpatOilWorker]

I am flying back to Thailand today and I bet you I have more stamps than Mariia in my passport. Lets see what will happen.

Wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, got another 30 days and not an eyebrow was raised.

[JoeLing]

She's probably quite good at her job, which means the flow on effect went to many Thai's that profited from her working and translating.

Once again, Thai's can't speak Russian, and Russians can't speak English - so how can a Thai sell a product, tour or service to a Russian tourist?

The Thai authorities say she is taking a job off a Thai - a job that a Thai does not have the ability to do, but profits from her doing the job, because she has the skills to do it.

Stop every Russian from working on Phuket and that's a lot of baht lost, and they are only doing jobs that Thai's can't, particularly in relation to the language barrier.

I don't think her working in Thailand is a problem but she's doing it without work permit, that's the problem.

If she would have the appropriate documentation, permits and visa, I'm sure she wouldn't have had any

problems at immigration and she could have been back in Phuket translating all day long but as you said,

Thai's can't speak Russian, Russians can't speak English - nor Thai, so just wonder what irreplaceable job

she was doing to so greatly contribute to Thailand's economy?

I have not read anywhere that Thai authorities claimed she was taking away a job off a Thai person. Thai

authorities assumed [with right] that she was working without the appropriate permits, that's all. If she had

them, or any other foreigner, then I can not see why she would have problems entering the country, even

if she would cross borders every week.

Now I suppose, as she's not the owner or shareholder of that dive company she said she's working for,

she was not creating any jobs for Thai people but possibly took away a job for some other, tax paying

Russian with the appropriate qualification, documentation and visa.

One doesn't have to stop every Russian from working in Phuket (or anywhere else in Thailand), just the

ones who are doing it illegally and so not really contributing towards Thailand's economy but rather for

their own economy and NO, it's not just valid for Russians.

[VocalNeal]

all that's happening is that Thai immigration is now enforcing the rules

Let this be a lesson to all the foreigners living here who complain about mini buses, soi dogs, litter, road condition, traffic rules, police don't do this, police don't do that ad naseum. This is just one step towards getting the the Thailand you all want to live in.

Edited May 13, 2014 by VocalNeal

[Coppernicussing]

I believe the shit may well hit the fan over this incident and the inevitable others which will follow.

I hope she's already notified the Russian Embassy about this as I believe she was singled out for being a Russian. If she wasn't a russian it wouldn't have happened.

Note to Mariia when you read this - please contact your Embassy to make an official complaint about this incident.

She needs to contact her boss, and arrange for a work visa.

Note to Maria, the entire point of the visa and visa crack down is to stop people from breaking the immigration laws. Maybe if you stopped doing that, they wouldn't "single yo out for being another Russian law-breaker? Just a thought.

[NamKangMan]

She's probably quite good at her job, which means the flow on effect went to many Thai's that profited from her working and translating.

Once again, Thai's can't speak Russian, and Russians can't speak English - so how can a Thai sell a product, tour or service to a Russian tourist?

The Thai authorities say she is taking a job off a Thai - a job that a Thai does not have the ability to do, but profits from her doing the job, because she has the skills to do it.

Stop every Russian from working on Phuket and that's a lot of baht lost, and they are only doing jobs that Thai's can't, particularly in relation to the language barrier.

I don't think her working in Thailand is a problem but she's doing it without work permit, that's the problem.

If she would have the appropriate documentation, permits and visa, I'm sure she wouldn't have had any

problems at immigration and she could have been back in Phuket translating all day long but as you said,

Thai's can't speak Russian, Russians can't speak English - nor Thai, so just wonder what irreplaceable job

she was doing to so greatly contribute to Thailand's economy?

I have not read anywhere that Thai authorities claimed she was taking away a job off a Thai person. Thai

authorities assumed [with right] that she was working without the appropriate permits, that's all. If she had

them, or any other foreigner, then I can not see why she would have problems entering the country, even

if she would cross borders every week.

Now I suppose, as she's not the owner or shareholder of that dive company she said she's working for,

she was not creating any jobs for Thai people but possibly took away a job for some other, tax paying

Russian with the appropriate qualification, documentation and visa.

One doesn't have to stop every Russian from working in Phuket (or anywhere else in Thailand), just the

ones who are doing it illegally and so not really contributing towards Thailand's economy but rather for

their own economy and NO, it's not just valid for Russians.

The way I see it is, as mentioned, Thai's can't speak Russian, and Russian's can't speak English, that means a Russian working in Thailand, mainly in the tourist areas, are using their English language skills to speak Russian to Russian tourists, and then English to other Thai staff, to actually sell a product, tour or service to a Russian.

This clearly put's them in a sales role, which is an occupation reserved for Thai's only.

Below are two occupations reserved for Thai's only. If she was directly conversing with Russian tourists in a sales role, she breached the first one. If she was an "assistant manager" as her internet profile claims, she was most likely in breach of the second one. In fact, she was probably in breach of both.

Either way, she would not have got a work permit for what she was doing because they are both occupations reserved for Thai's only. I strongly suspect she was mainly breaching the first one - working in sales, due to her language skills.

1) Front shop sale.

2) Clerical or secretarial work.

So, the Thai authorities have deported her and See Bees Diving now loses a lot, if not all, Russian customers. Now Sea Bees loses business and may have to lay off a couple of Thai staff.

On my last trip to Pattaya, I saw a Russian man sitting outside a massage shop, working illegally. He was not doing massages, his job was to talk to Russian tourists, in Russian, and then speak in English to the Thai massage girls about what sort of massage the Russian tourists wanted. Eg. Thai massage, swedish massage, oil or no oil etc etc. For all I know, it wasn't even his business and was being paid by the Thai's so they could get more business. Say he was to be deported, that massage shop loses a lot of business.

To the letter of the law, these Russians can not get a work permit for them to give what is required by the Russian tourists coming to Thiland.

Thailand wants the Russian's money, but they will not allow a Russian to work in sales in order to turn that Russian money over into the Thai economy.

So, as you can see, deporting an illegal Russian worker, because they can not be legal even if they wanted to, has a flow on effect of a loss of sales, which effects Thai's being employed and putting food on Thai tables.

It really is simply the language barrier.

Picture this. A Russian walks up to a Thai girl on a tour desk and wants to go to James Bond Island. He can't ask questions about the tour, a tour that gets sold thousands of times to native English speakers, because of the language barrier.

He can't ask her "What time is the pick up? Where is the pick up?" "How long is the tour?" "Is lunch included?" "What time will we be back to Phuket?" So, he doesn't buy a James Bond Island tour.

Then, he walks past a Russian girl sitting on a tour desk, working illegally. Asks all the questions and buys the tour. Has that Russian girl done the other Thai girl out of a job, or put two or more Russians on Somchai's boat out to James Bond Island which employs deckhands, cooks, cleaners etc?

This Russian girl would not have been earning a lot of money. She would have been like many backpackers on a 1 year overseas working holiday for countries that allow bar work and fruit picking etc.

I suggest the local Phuket economy got more out of her working illegally, than she would have taken from the local Phuket economy. I don't think she was here earning huge money so she could go back to Russian and buy a big house and a sports car.

[hanno]

44 pages about a lady that was breaking the law.

I went on a dive trip a couple of weeks ago. We were stopped by the navy and all the dive instructors told us to tell the officer they were fellow divers if asked. Seems like a lot of the dive shops are not exactly following the law.

[NamKangMan]

44 pages about a lady that was breaking the law.

I went on a dive trip a couple of weeks ago. We were stopped by the navy and all the dive instructors told us to tell the officer they were fellow divers if asked. Seems like a lot of the dive shops are not exactly following the law.

I would suggest the dive industry on Phuket has the most illegal foreigner workers than any other industry on Phuket, not to mention those in the dive industry that do have a work permit that work outside the boundaries of that work permit.

[BritManToo]

These rules are going to effect a lot of genuine people. For example people that work in the oil and gas industry. Friends I know work 6 months on 6 months off, under enforcement of the rules these people can no longer enjoy there time off work in Thailand even though they have condo's or rented houses. What are their options ?

These people are effectively living in Thailand. They are not tourists, and should have the correct visa.

Edited May 13, 2014 by BritManToo

[Genericnic]

These rules are going to effect a lot of genuine people. For example people that work in the oil and gas industry. Friends I know work 6 months on 6 months off, under enforcement of the rules these people can no longer enjoy there time off work in Thailand even though they have condo's or rented houses. What are their options ?

These people are effectively living in Thailand. They are not tourists, and should have the correct visa.

Rosco911, I would say that their options are to follow the rules. As BritManToo noted, they are not tourists and should not be using the rules for tourists to stay in Thailand. While the rules may not have been enforced in the past, they were still in place. If those folks are not able to stay in Thailand by following the rules rather than having to do things to skirt the rules, then they will most likely not be staying in Thailand now that the rules are being enforced. That was a chance they took. Choices have consequences.

David

[MILT]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

“I think for some people who want to do a visa run, the biggest problem is that they can deport you without any reason"

Once in Malaysia she was told the official reason was “not clear reason to visit Phuket”.

“The first question they asked was if I had a departing ticket from Thailand"

A visa doesn't guarantee entry into a country, and yes immigration can refuse entry to someone if they believe a person is not in accordance with the terms of their visa or reason for visa waiver...this is same in any country in the world, and once in country if an immigration department deems your are no complying with the T&C's of your entry they can kick you out

These are not new rules, all that's happening is that Thai immigration is now enforcing the rules and its been a long time coming

Seems to me immigration acted correctly in terms of the posted laws/rules for entry and even offered to try and help the lady with a ticket purchase (how many other immigration departments in other countries would offer help)

Very true! Laws are meant for creating inconvenience.

Follow the law and life goes on! Simple really.

The system in Thailand is broken and visitors can and do take advantage

of the cracks thus implementing the laws will only have positive results in the long term.

This has been a funny Haha message from the "Council of who gives a..............."

[LivinginKata]

removing all the off topic inflammatory posts

[Beetlejuice]

We checked Mariias information, it showed that she had frequently gone to Ranong for visa runs. This is often a sign of someone illegally working in Phuket, Prapansak Prasansuk, chief of Immigration at the airport.

Good point. So how does this woman financially support herself while staying in Thailand?

The one thing I learned over my many years here, is not to ask another farang what they do in Thailand? But now it seems they will have to prove and justify what they do in the country and why they are here.

At last the Thai authorities have begun showing their teeth and no longer is it the case of idle threats. It begins.

Better becareful BJ, could be you next

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yeah the way you carry on I wouldn't be surprised if the cops found a suspicious package in your car or your in-laws just clubbed you to death.

Both my son and my wife`s nephew are cops in Chiang Mai, I have another son who is a lawyer here, which I have no doubts will inspire you to make another post about the corrupt police force in Thailand or to make some more personal attacks against me or my family. Those of low intellects and who begin losing their arguments will always revert to personal attack tactics when they feel boxed up in a corner.

Whatever, it will not change your situation and guess that these new border restrictions will decrease the over stay farang hangers on here by at least 70%, perhaps more. The solution being, obtain your visas via the Immigration Departments like many of us do and if you can`t, then you have no valid reasons to remain in the country, otherwise what else would you prefer to hear? Because that`s the way it is.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[ATF]

Both my son and my wife`s nephew are cops in Chiang Mai, I have another son who is a lawyer here, which I have no doubts will inspire you to make another post about the corrupt police force in Thailand or to make some more personal attacks against me or my family. Those of low intellects and who begin losing their arguments will always revert to personal attack tactics when they feel boxed up in a corner.

Whatever, it will not change your situation and guess that these new border restrictions will decrease the over stay farang hangers on here by at least 70%, perhaps more. The solution being, obtain your visas via the Immigration Departments like many of us do and if you can`t, then you have no valid reasons to remain in the country, otherwise what else would you prefer to hear? Because that`s the way it is.

Well you can't say I'm not a pretty good judge of character? I mentioned in previous post I expected you were a retired cop. Kudos to me! Look man live and let live, get down off you high horse for a moment and consider that you are hurting peoples feelings. We are not talking Drug Lords here we are talking about people who come to Thailand, don't have a lot of money. Need a part-time job to support themselves. It's what growing up is all about. I am financially independent and have no need to leave Thailand unless I choose to. However I respect the younger generations who come here because I was one of them a long time ago. It was people like me and the people before me who paved the way for your comfortable retirement. God Bless.

[mrtoad]

BJ, even with your Cop and Lawyer family doesn't mean that visa laws may change and effect you. Interesting the comment about low intellects. Care to define that?

[Beetlejuice]

BJ, even with your Cop and Lawyer family doesn't mean that visa laws may change and effect you. Interesting the comment about low intellects. Care to define that?

mrtoad Sir, I have given my views regarding the restrictions of visas across the borders. Those of low intellect are the people who feel a need to become insulting and abusive but seem unable to make good valid points as to why they believe these cross border visa restrictions are wrong. Or in other words put up a good argument. I believe the easy extending of visas across borders is flawed because it allows easy entry and exiting of the country by criminals, possibly terrorists, it`s a threat to the national security. I also believe that the majority of forever tourists are probably working in Thailand illegally to enable them to financial support themselves here, the authorities know about this and will therefore have the knock on affect of tightening up the visa regulations even more for all of us. So as far as I am concerned, the actions of these people can indirectly affect me and my future in Thailand.

Regardless as to whether or not the long stay situation may or may not go pear shaped for everyone, this is about the border crossings. I have no doubts that there are many decent and law abiding people that make the border crossings, but it`s a case of the good, the bad and the ugly and how if these people are not vetted and registered as living in Thailand can the law breakers, those abusing the system and other undesirables be weeded out if not going via the correct channels as imposed by the Immigration Departments?

I am sorry if my opinions are not popular with some, this is nothing personal on my part, only for me it`s just common sense and logic.

So I`ll throw this at you, if you were one of the main decision makers in Thailand regarding the Immigration situation, how would you deal with this situation considering all the points I have made above?

Edited May 13, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[ATF]

So I`ll throw this at you, if you were one of the main decision makers in Thailand regarding the Immigration situation, how would you deal with this situation considering all the points I have made above?

While you are waiting for Mr.Toad to give you his 2c worth. I can tell you that what you are saying is completely right and correct. It's just the way you say it gets one's goat. All these people that have been affected should plan ahead better, but of course they are young and foolish with money. Which is completely normal. I am not completely up to speed on which visas they use now but I believe Thailand should issue a normal 6 month visa like Hong Kong. The Hong Kong visa is not a Tourist Visa it's just permission to stay for 6 months. You can go to Macau and get another 6 months. The HK Government doesn't bother concerning itself with people working because they have bigger fish to fry.

Passports are like guns. You're not going to use a properly registered one to commit a crime and the borders are so porous around Thailand that anyone can enter and leave as they please. The only reason to use a checkpoint is to get stamped in and out thus abiding by the law.

Big changes are coming soon with the enforcement of the Asean labor laws and Thailand will be inundated with well educated English speaking workers from all over Asean. So I suggest the visa system is overhauled to the benefit of everyone.

[Yahooka]

These rules are going to effect a lot of genuine people. For example people that work in the oil and gas industry. Friends I know work 6 months on 6 months off, under enforcement of the rules these people can no longer enjoy there time off work in Thailand even though they have condo's or rented houses. What are their options ?

These people are effectively living in Thailand. They are not tourists, and should have the correct visa.

Rosco911, I would say that their options are to follow the rules. As BritManToo noted, they are not tourists and should not be using the rules for tourists to stay in Thailand. While the rules may not have been enforced in the past, they were still in place. If those folks are not able to stay in Thailand by following the rules rather than having to do things to skirt the rules, then they will most likely not be staying in Thailand now that the rules are being enforced. That was a chance they took. Choices have consequences.

David

I wouldn`t be surprised if a crackdown will affect the ones on a 1 month in and out of Thailand(like the regulation that was scrapped years ago),but as long as we can get stamped in there 6 times a year I cannot see that we are exploiting the system.If Im told to get a visa in the future fair enough,but where do you draw the line ? If a tourist decides to go home for a month and then come back 4 times on a visa excempt is that person living in Thailand ?

[attento]

You cannot imagine any Russian immigration staff being so unkind and rude, especially to someone not speaking Russian, can you ?

[surfinglife]

Never enforced until now unless passenger = obvious pennyless hippy which is not the case there by the looks of it.

Proof of funds = trip to ATM

Onward ticket - hardly anyone does that and it can be booked in minutes on a phone if required.

There are no ATM's airside.

I have been asked to show my return ticket on many ocassions at Suvarnabhumi (and I look nothing like a penniless hippie).

Just normal immigration rules worldwide. Don't know what the fuss is all about,

[ukrules]

These rules are going to effect a lot of genuine people. For example people that work in the oil and gas industry. Friends I know work 6 months on 6 months off, under enforcement of the rules these people can no longer enjoy there time off work in Thailand even though they have condo's or rented houses. What are their options ?

These people are effectively living in Thailand. They are not tourists, and should have the correct visa.

I agree, there should be a new visa created for people who like to spend their time and money in Thailand but who don't work for a Thai company so are unable to get long term visas.

To qualify for this visa I would say something along the lines of 'Working for a foreign company not located in Thailand whilst earning more than xxx,xxx Baht per month' - Multiple unlimited 90 day entires 12 month O visa.

That should do the trick.

[hkt83100]

Mariia Sgibneva. Assistant Manager, Sea bees diving just wondering

Some of the profiles, for example Twitter and Linkedln, are deleted, but google does not forget too quickly. Just search for the name...

[ATF]

Never enforced until now unless passenger = obvious pennyless hippy which is not the case there by the looks of it.

Proof of funds = trip to ATM

Onward ticket - hardly anyone does that and it can be booked in minutes on a phone if required.

There are no ATM's airside.

I have been asked to show my return ticket on many ocassions at Suvarnabhumi (and I look nothing like a penniless hippie).

Just normal immigration rules worldwide. Don't know what the fuss is all about,

There are plenty of ATM's airside near the duty free shops at BKK, not sure about Phuket. An outward ticket is not required only the ability to show enough funds that you can buy one if necessary. Showing a credit card is probably enough but I've never been asked for one in Thailand. Last but one time I was flying out of HKG last year Cathay were worried that I didn't have an outward ticket so there must have been a lot of people who have encountered this problem.

Edited May 13, 2014 by ATF

[stevenl]

Never enforced until now unless passenger = obvious pennyless hippy which is not the case there by the looks of it.

Proof of funds = trip to ATM

Onward ticket - hardly anyone does that and it can be booked in minutes on a phone if required.

There are no ATM's airside.

I have been asked to show my return ticket on many ocassions at Suvarnabhumi (and I look nothing like a penniless hippie).

Just normal immigration rules worldwide. Don't know what the fuss is all about,

There are plenty of ATM's airside near the duty free shops at BKK, not sure about Phuket. An outward ticket is not required only the ability to show enough funds that you can but one if necessary. Showing a credit card is probably enough but I've never been asked for one in Thailand. Last but one time I was flying out of HKG last year Cathay were worried that I didn't have an outward ticket so there must have been a lot of people who have encountered this problem.

For visa exempt entry onward or return ticket is one of the official requirements.

[ATF]

For visa exempt entry onward or return ticket is one of the official requirements.

Thanks duly noted. Used to be proof of funds but I'm a dinosaur.

[oldsailor35]

"Maybe they hate me because i am Russian" Perhaps she has heard some rumours !

[oldsailor35]

After arriving in Phuket in October, Ms Sgibneva left to get a three-month tourist visa in November. She then completed a visa run in February. Subsequently, she left the country on March 21 for a visa run, then again to visit friends in Kuala Lumpur on March 30 and April 18.

Despite the article using the term "visa run," what it looks like she did was make/attempt four or five pretty much back-to-back visa-exempt entries in a 6-7 month period of time - separated by only one actual tourist visa.

That does seem to be the kind of behavior that the new crackdown on consecutive visa exempt entries is aimed at.

The article says she didn't want to go back to her home country, Russia. So what exactly has she been doing in Thailand for all these months???

No question of working i don't suppose ?

[iSabai]

Good riddance to yet another visa scofflaw. If she had no respect for the laws and regs required for her to stay legally in the country, then she's just another undesirable leeching on the backs of those making the effort to do it the right way.

Far too many undesirables here already.