Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[george]

BORDER RUN CRACKDOWN

Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

PHUKET: -- Tourists who can prove that they are genuinely staying only short-term while travelling in Thailand will be allowed to leave on “visa-runs” and re-enter the country, Immigration Commissioner Pharnu Kerdlarpphon confirmed to the Phuket Gazette.

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday.

“Then they will be allowed to re-enter the country.”

Gen Pharnu clarified the focus of the new immigration regulation, which allows most foreigners to enter the country only once using visa-exempt status.

“The crackdown is all about preventing foreigners from using visa-exemptions and tourist visas to stay in Thailand and work,” Gen Pharnu said.

“We should have done this a long time ago. We have let foreigners work illegally in Thailand on tourist visas for too long. It’s time to stop them.”

The new regulation has nothing to do with ill-fated Malaysian Airlines Flight MH 370 and the passports from Phuket that were used to board the flight, the general added.

The immigration chief was clear that from August 13 any foreigners who fail to prove that they are tourists will not be allowed to re-enter the country on visa exemption status (story here), as explained in a formal notice posted on Bangkok Immigration’s website on May 8.

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

“This is what we have been doing for years with foreigners who have been deported, and any foreigner who is added to our blacklist is issued a formal notice explaining what they have done wrong.”

Gen Pharnu noted that immigration officers were ordered to give special attention to Russians, South Koreans, Vietnamese and Chinese attempting to extend their stays by completing visa runs.

Ranong Immigration Superintendent Ekkorn Bussababordin confirmed to the Gazette on May 12 that foreigners will continue to be allowed to re-enter Thailand on three consecutive “walk-in” visas until August 12.

As reported in the Gazette last week, after August 12, such foreigners risk being stranded in Myanmar (story here).

The May 8 order, posted in Thai, stated that the new rule is to come into effect at all immigration checkpoints, including airports.

“Thailand is open to all tourists,” Gen Pharnu said, “but we will not allow illegal workers. If you want to work here please do the right thing. Apply for a business visa and live here legally.”

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Tourist-visa-runs-not-dead-Immigration-boss/29460


-- Phuket Gazette 2014-05-16

[Pralaad]

It is a good and a fair policy, HOWEVER the problems will arise with immigration officers, especially at land border crossings and it will create more opportunity for corruption and bribes at the land border crossings

[Som wat]

The immigration chief was clear that from August 13 any foreigners who fail to prove that they are tourists will not be allowed to re-enter the country on visa exemption status (story here), as explained in a formal notice posted on Bangkok Immigration’s website on May 8.

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

“This is what we have been doing for years with foreigners who have been deported, and any foreigner who is added to our blacklist is issued a formal notice explaining what they have done wrong.”

While I'm all for this in theory.... that's a lot of power to give a, ahem, fine standing and completely competent immigration official who has abosultely no xenophobic, racist, emotional, resentment, or ego issues to deal with.

[Som wat]

5 year ban for attempting a VoA border run, hey.

What the ban for overstaying?

[Suradit69]

Those dastardly foreigners again.

You don't think it's the foreigners who abuse the system who have brought this all on? Each of these changes in rules or stricter implementation of existing rules, has a connection to those who think they're too clever with the serial border crossings and such. It's too bad for them that they're having the loopholes closed, but it also impacts people who have done nothing wrong. None of it affects me, but it's causing some grief for others who got caught up in the same net as the problem children.

5 year ban for attempting a VoA border run, hey.

What the ban for overstaying?

"5 year ban for attempting a VoA border run, hey."

It has nothing to do with Visas on Arrival. Try to keep up.

[lazygourmet]

How can you deport someone who has not yet entered the country?

Or did I missed something...

[biggles45]

If they want to encourage tourists to get a visa to enter the country then how about making it easier to get one in adjoining countries. Many complaints on the internet about the difficulties in getting visas in some places.

[Nautilus05]

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

[malcoml]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

[ronthai]

“Thailand is open to all tourists,” Gen Pharnu said, “but we will not allow illegal workers. If you want to work here please do the right thing. Apply for a business visa and live here legally.”

Not all business are or have 2 million and/or need 4 Thai employees.

How many 1 man businesses are there here, now operating without a workpermit and/or business visa?

Guess most of them have other visa anyway, so therefore will not impact them yet.

Yes, these 1 man-businesses won't make Thailand much richer, but they do no harm also. Just not given the oppertunity to run the business legal.

[naanaa]

I am sure there will be more updates from "big guy" soon! They just keep changing all the time, and it is so confusing about even a "tourist" has never done visa run before and they may subjected to be deported due to immigration staff's suspicion? So about visa exempt now, does it mean it doesn't matter how many days leave the kingdom and back by air, and based on the immigration staff's judgement?

[malcoml]

I am sure there will be more updates from "big guy" soon! They just keep changing all the time, and it is so confusing about even a "tourist" has never done visa run before and they may subjected to be deported due to immigration staff's suspicion? So about visa exempt now, does it mean it doesn't matter how many days leave the kingdom and back by air, and based on the immigration staff's judgement?

That seems to be correct as of the 12th of August.

[Som wat]

5 year ban for attempting a VoA border run, hey.

What the ban for overstaying?

"5 year ban for attempting a VoA border run, hey."

It has nothing to do with Visas on Arrival. Try to keep up.

Yes, you'll have to pardon my gutter-trash colloquialism.

'Visa Exemption' dear, of course.

[hotrod4098]

a passport dont lie...so if you have many border stamps in it..over a period of time..then i expect some questioning to see how

you have funded your stay...i think you would have to have some very good proof to stay..if the IO.. dont believe you...

i think for some it is game over...they will just be on over stay...

[brubakertx]

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“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

This almost happened to me this week. I did about 4 visa runs to Myanmar, when I first came to Thailand 4 years ago as a tourist. Since then, I been working as a teacher, and being a good boy. I finally went home for a visit, and when I returned they saw those stamps from 4 years ago, and they started talking about not letting me enter at the BKK airport. So luckily I had my work permit, which did not seem too impressed with, until I showed pay stubs, my work contacts etc. I was lucky I had all those documents with me.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

It is clear that the are targetting people working illegally and not necessarily people who choose to stay in Thailand long term. If you are not working or doing something illegal, have some evidence to show that you are not. They are doing their jobs and you should do yours.

I don't have any sense that they are discouraging people from visiting and even staying in Thailand. So.... don't panic.

[SWW]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

[cronus]

"The crackdown is all about preventing foreigners from using visa-exemptions and tourist visas to stay in Thailand and work,” Gen Pharnu said."

No more back to back Tourist Visa's!

[Pralaad]

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

It is clear that the are targetting people working illegally and not necessarily people who choose to stay in Thailand long term. If you are not working or doing something illegal, have some evidence to show that you are not. They are doing their jobs and you should do yours.

I don't have any sense that they are discouraging people from visiting and even staying in Thailand. So.... don't panic.

Far from being this easy.

So if you are staying long time, how exactly do you prove you are NOT working? and how do you prove its 4th year straight holiday for you?

They are targeting ANYONE with back to back visa.

If you are a genuine tourist, you will have stamp into Thailand, then off to neighboring country or countries and back to Thailand with ticket to return home or onto next destination, as well as hotel booked.

If you are not a genuine tourist, the only stamps you have is same day in/out, living in a condo with no return ticket.

[culicine]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

At this time I think the AEC is a distant dream for Thailand given the political situation. Perhaps the other countries should push ahead with AEC and leave the Thais to sort out their mess before they join.

[madox66]

I have friends coming for 3 weeks next november. They plan to go to Laos to visit Paksé and surroundings for a couple of days. Will they be able to come back to Thailand ?

[DrTuner]

If I have to guess, next thing they'll do is to introduce proof of income from outside of Thailand for getting a tourist visa. That would quite effectively kill the option for those illegally working here.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I have friends coming for 3 weeks next november. They plan to go to Laos to visit Paksé and surroundings for a couple of days. Will they be able to come back to Thailand ?

Yes, of course. Just have evidence of their credible travel plans ready for a worse case scenario.

[DLP]

With all these new rules coming in i think there will be a lot more people on overstay.

And that will be the next thing they will be targeting.

Either way i dont care. none of this affects me.

[samran]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

Dunno where you got the idea that the AEC is about free movement of peoples. It isn't.

[MoTheo]

“Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine,” Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.

As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

[Triglav]

If I have to guess, next thing they'll do is to introduce proof of income from outside of Thailand for getting a tourist visa. That would quite effectively kill the option for those illegally working here.

Bank statement is quite easy to fake, and the people working illegally are obviously not averse to breaking the law. Then there're ED visas, too, which I'm sure can be found at discount prices for high-volume (as in, whole company) purchases.

Walking into the businesses obviously employing foreign labor and carrying out the law is, of course, too much work (plus it's hot outside!)

[Jiu-Jitsu]

“From August 13, if we suspect any foreigner of working illegally in Thailand on a tourist visa, that person will be detained and deported, even if the foreigner has not previously completed even a single visa run,” he said.

“People who are deported will be banned from re-entering Thailand for five years, not forever. After that, the foreigner may appeal to re-enter the country.

Hmmm... so say someone has a bunch of VISA exempt stamps / tourist VISAs in their passport and/or an overstay, then leaves Thailand via BKK airport. If the immigration officer decides you've been here too long, they're now going to officially detain and deport you, meaning a few days in the IDC while it goes through a judge and gets processed?

Or are they just going to blacklist you for 5 years on the stop then & there, and still let you get on your flight?

It is clear that the are targetting people working illegally and not necessarily people who choose to stay in Thailand long term. If you are not working or doing something illegal, have some evidence to show that you are not. They are doing their jobs and you should do yours.

I don't have any sense that they are discouraging people from visiting and even staying in Thailand. So.... don't panic.

Far from being this easy.

So if you are staying long time, how exactly do you prove you are NOT working? and how do you prove its 4th year straight holiday for you?

They are targeting ANYONE with back to back visa.

If you are a genuine tourist, you will have stamp into Thailand, then off to neighboring country or countries and back to Thailand with ticket to return home or onto next destination, as well as hotel booked.

If you are not a genuine tourist, the only stamps you have is same day in/out, living in a condo with no return ticket.

That is your opinion. But it is just one indicator. You can stay for many months on Tourist Visa with no problems at all. If you have enough of an income to support yourself and can show it, they won't likely give you undue problems. But if they suspect that you are working illegally and that is how you are supporting your stay, you should think about how you can disprove their supposition.

Obviously the Russian woman who was stopped in Phuket could not. In fact she was working in Phuket. So her story illustrated exactly the kind of person targetted in this 'crackdown'.

So, get yourselves together.

[DrTuner]

If I have to guess, next thing they'll do is to introduce proof of income from outside of Thailand for getting a tourist visa. That would quite effectively kill the option for those illegally working here.

Bank statement is quite easy to fake, and the people working illegally are obviously not averse to breaking the law. Then there're ED visas, too, which I'm sure can be found at discount prices for high-volume (as in, whole company) purchases.

Walking into the businesses obviously employing foreign labor and carrying out the law is, of course, too much work (plus it's hot outside!)

Easy to fake, yes .. but currently you don't need one at all. It would deter some of the less "hard-core" illegal workers. Better than nothing and easy.

ED crackdowns are in the pipeline, I suppose. Immigration isn't that stupid, it takes like one hour to figure out all the common the loopholes. They've just tolerated it until now. I reckon the trigger now is the large amount of complaints due to the Russian invasion of last few years.

I think the immigration police simply don't have the manpower to go door to door and the local police can't really be arsed to do anything.

[Maestro]

It is a good and a fair policy, HOWEVER the problems will arise with immigration officers, especially at land border crossings and it will create more opportunity for corruption and bribes at the land border crossings

The Immigration Bureau's communication to officers, of which the member LawrenceN kinkly kindly gave an English translation, invites immigration officers to contact either of two named immigration commanders if they have a question about the implementation of this new directive. This will, I hope, minimise possible problems at border entry points.