Bees and Honey but not much money

[tim armstrong]

Yet another possible 'money making' idea. At our local large Sunday market recently I bought some honey, which is probably the best honey I have ever tasted in all my 64 years, including all my childhood memories of yellow box honey from Oz. Its local, unadulterated and only being sold on a small scale. I haven't yet investigated the source or the hives, but it made me think about our 4 rai plot of land which is surrounded on 3 sides by forest and now has many flowering trees and shrubs.

To the point - can anyone recommend a TV member who is a bee keeper or knows about producing honey ? I will of course talk to locals, but my Thai is still a bit slow. Thanks.

[Jotham79]

There are some small scale operators around here and some larger ones in the areas worth more fruit trees. If there is no label on the bottle it may be wild honey. At certain times of year around here people go out and find wild hives and steal the honey. It is really really good too.

[tim armstrong]

Jotham,

Thanks for the info. There is a label on the honey, but I think its their own effort and its all in Thai. I will go to the market next weekend and talk to them further. I didn't think about the wild V hive produced difference. We are near Nakhon Sawan and at this time of year there are many flowering trees and shrubs, especially Mimosa and the large tree with the brilliant small red flowers, as well as Frangipani and many other flowers. This honey looks too clear to be wild honey, but they may just have filtered it very well. It certainly tastes fantastic. I now have a better understanding of Winnie the Poo!

[konfuzed]

get on twitter, and talk to @steviegell he runs a bee farm and sells honey in chatuchak area...

[stevie gell]

Hello Tim, I'm a beekeeper Bangkok/Lopburi based. How can I help?

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[paultilling]

It all depends on where they get their water source. Some drains taste better than others not to mention buffalo pads.

[Benmart]

It all depends on where they get their water source. Some drains taste better than others not to mention buffalo pads.

Could you please share your first hand experience with Thai honey production and the water that was actually used?

Thanks in advance.

[paultilling]

Sorry, no offence intended. This applies to any country anywhere, you cannot force a bee to drink from your preferred source, they make their own choice and I am told prefer drains to clear water! Not a very compelling sales point.

[SOTIRIOS]

Hello Tim, I'm a beekeeper Bangkok/Lopburi based. How can I help?

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...is it possible to get some real, unadulterated honey....at a reasonable price..???

[SOTIRIOS]

...a few times now...I was offered 'real' (?) 'pure' (?) honey.....

...but...for some reason.....

...every time...it was in a Thai whiskey bottle...

...and it smelled of whiskey.....

....does anyone know what is behind that......???

[KIWIBATCH]

...a few times now...I was offered 'real' (?) 'pure' (?) honey.....

...but...for some reason.....

...every time...it was in a Thai whiskey bottle...

...and it smelled of whiskey.....

....does anyone know what is behind that......???

I posted sometime ago about the "Fake" honey in the Thai markets.

(I want to quickly add that these following comments are not intended as a slur on the obviously pure wild honey that the OP has located)

To answer Sotrious...as follows.....(the smell is most likely fermenting corn syrup...read on.....)

Being a New Zealander I love honey...it is available in NZ and is found everywhere and inexpensive. NZ has a large "honey industry"

The bottles of the honey you find in Thailand both in supermarkets (sometimes) and the weekend markets (always) is fake and adulterated 99.9% of the time.

Unbelievably the minute amount of honey in that whiskey bottle you refer to has it's origins in NZ and Australia.

NZ/Aust export alot of honey to China.

In turn the Chinese importer/middleman/exporter "waters down" the honey with corn syrup/glucose (corn syrup when mixed with even small amounts of honey has the same level of sweetness as honey and has that "heavy liquid" look about it when you pick up the bottle and tip it slightly.

This scam was uncovered by NZ Exporters of honey to China (approx 1 year ago)......whether they were aware China was exporting the adulterated honey throughout Asia.....only they would know.

Interestingly the Thai Ministry of Health issued a press statement about the fake honey and threatened a "Crackdown"...now I don't need to tell you what happens to "Thai crackdowns" do I.

They simply get put in the "Crackdowns To Do Tray" and there they stay.

Another sign is that the whiskey bottles full of so called "honey" in the markets are around 100b to 150b a bottle.........750ml of "Pure Honey for 100/150b....really?

No....the markets are dealing in volumes.....knock 'em out at 100/150....volume volume volume....gotta sell them quick and cheap...before the corn syrup turns brown in the bottle and starts to ferment/smell (ever wondered why the bottles are always a dark coloured glass?)....buyer be very aware.

I will give the supermarkets a small benefit of the doubt re the selling of real honey....I have tried all the brands here over the years.........most if not all of them...."seem watered down".......I have asked myself many times if it is just me and my tastebuds.....but no.....there is something else...some other liquid/substance in with this supermarket honey...I am positive.

You can Google "how to tell real honey from fake"......plenty of field tests...some very simple and can be done in the supermarket/market without even opening the bottle/jar

[Jimbolai]

I just bought a bottle of honey on Central Pattaya road just north of 2nd. Clear bottle, about 750ml, 120THB no label, screw on cap that was taped on. The honey does taste very good. Am I putting my self at risk using this product or am I getting something special?

[stevie gell]

Supermarket Honey: Not watered down but it has had the pollen removed to avoid crystallization which occurs at low temperatures & for suppliers of supermarkets, replacing the product ever other week isn't logistically sound. It's not fake honey, but it's not real (or complete) honey. That being said, there are a few brands I've come across in Thailand that are mixed with corn syrup. For diabetics, that's bad news!

As for whisky bottles, my family has used nothing but for the past 30 yrs, coz they're cheap, recycled etc. If people want to pay extra for packaging, fine let them.

If the bottles have a phone number & the seller is willing to let you taste from the bottle, then it's usually a safe bet.

Ask a stupid question ~ Get a stupid answer

[stevie gell]

Protip: Sediment at the bottom of the bottle/jar is good.It's just pollen that's crystallized (Google). Sediment at the top is bad. That's pollen & corn syrup (some times sugar) that can't possibly be mixed as well as what bees' digestive & regurgitation system can do.

Ask a stupid question ~ Get a stupid answer

[stevie gell]

Oh. If you're not sure & you're in Bangkok. Lotus Rama 4. Behind cashier 9 (I think) Lung Sa-ard. 750cc ฿130. 3 bottles ฿360

Ask a stupid question ~ Get a stupid answer

[rice555]

Hello All, we usually have 2-3 wild hives in trees around the yard, and one between the

roof and porch celling, never seen that one, but bees coming and going.

rice555

[ggt]

My Honey...is sweeter than your honey....

[PETERTHEEATER]

Last year I visited a National Park and went into the 'Gents' It was evident that the water supply to flush the urinals had not been running for some time judging from the smell and stains and each urinal was thickly clustered with bees and butterflies apparently feeding on the crusty residue. Well, they have to get their minerals from somewhere before buzzing off to the hive to make honey.......

[jsflynn603]

Tim, I have no idea where you live but if you're near Chaing Mai go to the corner of Chang Klan Rd and Sridonchai Rd, and head North, on the right hand side is a Thai woman with a store which sells nothing but honey. Very neat, as there were many types of honey. This may seem odd but it isn't. I used to raise bees in New Hampshire, USA back in the '70's and became very successful but unfortunately successful meant that I was extracting lots of honey. More honey meant more bottles of honey to sell and what I found is that at least in that area the reality is that consumers really did not care much and was not willing to pay a premium price over the supermarket SueBee brand from Brazil. I had water white blueberry honey that was a nice flavor and a dark aster/goldenrod honey that I extracted separately. It's sometimes easy to tell what honey is coming from what flowers. Frankly it got tiresome even though I was doing well since it was difficult to sell my product for a good price. A fellow offered a good price to buy my extractor and all my hives and I took it. Since then there have been nothing but problems in the USA with bees, a disease named nosema, tracheal mites, etc. I'm happy to be out of it, though I miss beekeeping in a small way and having your own honey gives you the means to make unique mead (honey wine). I still have one unopened from 1973, the high sugar content might mean that it's still drinkable, but I doubt it.

Back to this Thai women. She spoke excellent English and turned out to be President of a beekeeper association. I cannot remember if it was a Chaing mai group or country wide, but she would be an excellent, and fun person to talk with.

Good luck with your venture.

[stevie gell]

Tim, I have no idea where you live but if you're near Chaing Mai go to the corner of Chang Klan Rd and Sridonchai Rd, and head North, on the right hand side is a Thai woman with a store which sells nothing but honey. Very neat, as there were many types of honey. This may seem odd but it isn't. I used to raise bees in New Hampshire, USA back in the '70's and became very successful but unfortunately successful meant that I was extracting lots of honey. More honey meant more bottles of honey to sell and what I found is that at least in that area the reality is that consumers really did not care much and was not willing to pay a premium price over the supermarket SueBee brand from Brazil. I had water white blueberry honey that was a nice flavor and a dark aster/goldenrod honey that I extracted separately. It's sometimes easy to tell what honey is coming from what flowers. Frankly it got tiresome even though I was doing well since it was difficult to sell my product for a good price. A fellow offered a good price to buy my extractor and all my hives and I took it. Since then there have been nothing but problems in the USA with bees, a disease named nosema, tracheal mites, etc. I'm happy to be out of it, though I miss beekeeping in a small way and having your own honey gives you the means to make unique mead (honey wine). I still have one unopened from 1973, the high sugar content might mean that it's still drinkable, but I doubt it.

Back to this Thai women. She spoke excellent English and turned out to be President of a beekeeper association. I cannot remember if it was a Chaing mai group or country wide, but she would be an excellent, and fun person to talk with.

Good luck with your venture.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Common strategy among successful beekeepers is; sell cheap & sell lots.

Ask a stupid question ~ Get a stupid answer

[Jotham79]

In the rural markets you will sometimes find folks selling wild honey still in the comb along with honey that has been squeezed out and the comb that has been squeezed. They honey by itself is usually kinda dark and still has bits of comb. The combs look like the ones in the post by Rice555. My BIL will usually get a couple from around my farm every year, but not much. There are folks that get out on public land and really hunt for it seriously.

[stevie gell]

In the rural markets you will sometimes find folks selling wild honey still in the comb along with honey that has been squeezed out and the comb that has been squeezed. They honey by itself is usually kinda dark and still has bits of comb. The combs look like the ones in the post by Rice555. My BIL will usually get a couple from around my farm every year, but not much. There are folks that get out on public land and really hunt for it seriously.

No they're not. They're the kind of people who buy in bulk from me along with a few kg of pollen to mix it with then water it down. They walk with combs from branches, singing 5th month honey. Scam.

Ask a stupid question ~ Get a stupid answer

[2peteok]

Tim: I want to try the honey you like so much what is your local market. thank you .

[cobbler]

When we 1st came to thai to live permanent.We were building our house and I saw some guy down near the road on our land hiding in the grass.The night before we had a loud noise on the roof of the shed we were sleeping in.The shed also had all our rubber mats in it.More than 1 ton.

I put the 2 things together and thought it was the same guy who was trying to break into our shed to steal our rubber.

I started freak7ng out.

So I went down there with a big stick and was going to flog shit out of him.

All the builders were amazed watching this stupid farang going down to this harmless guy who was just collecting wild honey.To make myself look even stupider , I was calling out to my wife in thai"get the gun, get the gun"

As for the noise on the roof , it was just a monkey walking on the roof eating bananas that were leaning on the shed roof.

I also ran a wire from the power point to the iron roof so I could turn it on at any time.

Shit Im glad ive calmed down since then.

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[cornishcarlos]

We get wild honey at 500 baht a bottle..!!!

I wouldn't know if we are being ripped off but I am told that it comes from about 20 hives a guy located in the jungle near us..??

Tastes damn good

[Jotham79]

In the rural markets you will sometimes find folks selling wild honey still in the comb along with honey that has been squeezed out and the comb that has been squeezed. They honey by itself is usually kinda dark and still has bits of comb. The combs look like the ones in the post by Rice555. My BIL will usually get a couple from around my farm every year, but not much. There are folks that get out on public land and really hunt for it seriously.

No they're not. They're the kind of people who buy in bulk from me along with a few kg of pollen to mix it with then water it down. They walk with combs from branches, singing 5th month honey. Scam.

Ask a stupid question ~ Get a stupid answer

I can imagine that there is some counterfeiting going on but around here gathering is the way a lot of people make ends meet. In season they gather bamboo shoots, pak wan, mountain crabs (like rice paddy crabs but way bigger), Honey, manila tamarind, frogs, Uhns (frog kinda), snails, grass shrimp, wild jujubes, magawp, rats, wild birds, and anything else that they might be able to sell. I don't think it is fair to make sweeping blanket statements about folks you don't . Like I said, I imagine there are more than a few bad apples, but I seriously doubt that what I see going on out in the country isn't happening at all.

I would love to hear more details about your business, may you could start a thread with details.

[Sandman77]

Is a export licence needed how much coasts ?

Can post office reject sending because honey is fluid?

I have a lot of money making ideas, just send pm for discus!

How much one kg manuka coasts in nz?

Australia have best quality worldwide

Last place on earth no diseases in honey bee die and no chemical added

Look doku from swiss tv on google

Name more then honey

A amusing documentation!

[kerrysum]

Somehow,

I think that the bird's and the bee's know what to do..... So what is the problem? I wish people had the same ideal......

Kerry...

Secret? Bees love Cilanthro........Kerry

[searcherkind666]

I raise bees in Thailand and usa , in Thailand theres a guy http://keepingbee.org/bees-in-thailand/ that will help you get started . there are relatively no GMO crops in Thailand so bee keeping is very easy and rewarding , colony collapse is rare .

[tim armstrong]

I'm overwhelmed by the response. Thanks to everyone for the stories and info. Thanks Stevie, I will contact you soon about the feasibility of starting some hives and maybe a visit. 2peteok - the market is a Sat/Sun market at Nakhon Sawan. PM me for directions if you are going there. I'm no expert but the honey I bought was not diluted or otherwise 'fixed'. The few times recently I've been back to Oz and tried honey, it has definitely changed for the worse. As a child living in farming country in southern NSW we used to have many beekeepers in the area, all producing beautiful honey. But I hear bees worldwide are under big threats from ag. chemicals now. Don't know so much about the NZ industry.

Thanks again, I needed another farming mission to get excited about.