Banking failure followed by success followed by failure story

[csabo]

So armed with a fair amount of research, my passport with double entry tourist visa good until October and a bungalow lease agreement good for 3 months, I shaved and put on my Sunday best as did the GF. We went down to the Bangkok Bank in Rawai on Viset with the intension of getting a bank account. I walked in and smiled and asked to open the account. The teller asked for a work permit. I made it clear that while only 45 years old I am retired (brought retirement pay stub along too) therefore did not want or need a job and could not get a work permit or a retirement visa. She seemed to understand and went off to speak to an obvious higher up. She came back after a fairy long private meeting and starting punching numbers into her calculator and then showed me the numbers which included a minimum 500B deposit, a 300B debit card fee and a 5000B fee for accident/life insurance (no doubt annual). I assured her I was fully insured and did not want to purchase life insurance from a bank. She smiled and insisted "It was the only way to open the account". As my head was spinning the manageress chimed in that next month would be very difficult for a faring to open an account implying I should jump on this offer. It felt like a car dealership hustle and an obvious money maker for the bank. I politely declined and left inwardly pissed. I originally chose Bangkok Bank because they have a New York branch which is a good fit for me when I am abroad. Knowing that KrungThai Bank also has a NY branch I walked next door to them and asked for an account. After much battling with his computer and consulting with other employees he got it done for a 500B minimum deposit and a 300B debit card fee and no BS insurance scam. I went home set up KTB online banking and was all set to enter the KTB NY branch routing number into my US bank and make a transfer when I found out KTB HAS NO ABA ROUTING NUMBERS. How, I don't know. So then I pondered a New York bank to US Paypal to Thai Paypal to KTB transfer and found out using a Paypal fees calculator that they will take $66 US out of every $1000. So <deleted>? How do I get money over here without the heavy fees? Should I try to go to another Bangkok Bank branch and give it go there hoping for a different response?? Sorry if this is long winded. Thanks in advance for contributions.

[LivinginKata]

Can't help with your money transfer from the USA to Krung Thai. To be honest I can't even get internet banking with KTB, had an account with then for over 10 years, last year I asked at their Rawai Branch near Lotus before Fisherman's way. Just looked blankly - cannot, no way, impossible.

I guess you were just unlucky with your local Bangkok Bank branch, just depends on the manager and the mood of the day. This hard sell of insurance is the worst with the Siam Commercial. Every time I call into the Kata branch they really push some insurance package.Even phone us at home pushing something or other.

[stevenl]

Just try another Bangkok Bank branche.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Just try another Bangkok Bank branch.

What he says.

Every branch manager is different, with his own set of rules.

Edited June 24, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Pralaad]

Why do not you try other banks such as Kasikorn or Krungsi?

Another option is https://transferwise.com/

[andreww]

Transferwise does not support THB (yet). Between Australia - Hong Kong - Thailand we usually use OzForex or HiFX. There're plenty of other forex-based traders in various countries, compare here for example:

http://www.fxcompared.com/

Rates are better than any bank would offer you (especially, Australian banks.. greedy bastards. Just as PayPal), and fees are negligent, and do not depend on the amount you transfer (can be waived for larger transfers though). Establishing an account with a trader takes a day or two (they will check your identity and such), and any transfer is a 2-step process: you transfer money to FX company's account (usually local, maybe even in your bank), and they finalize transfer to your THB account 2-3 days later.

Make sure you get rates directly from the transfer company of your choice, as these comparison websites usually list BEST rates available, i.e. best rate over a 24h period and for larger transfer volumes. Average customer transferring only $5-15k at a time is unlikely to get such advertised rate, but still, as I said earlier, you'll save money comparing to any bank transfer.

I dunno which FX operator is the best for US/UK markets, maybe someone else can advise.

Edited June 24, 2014 by andreww

[simon43]

_{KTB SWIFT code routing number is KRTHTHBK}

[NamKangMan]

I believe you can now Western Union money to a bank account with a debit/credit card.

It's not a permanent, long term solution for you, but if you need money urgently, you should be able to get some funds into your new Thai bank account, until you can get this sorted.

[csabo]

NamKangMan: No urgency, and I checked out Western Union but quickly got turned off by most of the comments on TV about their fees, I was more concerned about long term build up of these constant ATM fees, transfer fees, yada yada and just trying to be smart about my expenses. Doing so got me retired at 45 and hopefully with some planning I can stay that way.

Simon43: SWIFT Code and ABA Routing number are completly different items. I must have an ABA for bank account direct to bank account free transfers that I can personally manage on my banks online interface. In the US I do it constantly. Works like a dream

Pralaad: I chose Bangkok bank and then KTB as they both have branches in New York where I maintain an apartment so in the event I ever find myself in the states and need to access my Thai funds locally or for what ever other reason I need to have a face to face with a Thai banker for, I chose those two banks. Ie; loans, transfers, future family etc, etc....

[EBlair48]

What bank is this? I've been trying to get accident insurance for years through the five banks I have accounts with, " No whities allowed" I'm told. Ayudhya ( yellow bank) only charged 500 baht for incoming wires, However they have absolutely the WORST telephone service , you cannot get through the voicemail.

What passes for service in this country...

Edited June 24, 2014 by EBlair48

[Sealbash]

You do not end an ABA number. That is for USA to USA banks. You will just need to use the SWIFT number for international transfers

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[csabo]

SealBash: I know its US to US thats why I wanted the US routing numbers for Thai banks. Bangkok Bank in NY has one. KTB does not. My US bank online interface will not accept a SWIFT code. Need nine digit numerical ABA only and account number to set up permanent link.

[csabo]

EBlair 48: It the BKK Bank on the second story next to the Lotus in Rawai. The second story is basically loaded with banks. You can just go one to the next trying your luck. I am sure they will give you the insurance you seek as it was a MAJOR sticking point for me. Additionally personnel at both banks I visited made comments to me and amongst themselves that for some reason next month was going to very difficult for farangs to acquire accounts. I thought this was part of the hard sell at BKK Bank but when the GF heard the same remarks at KTB in Thai I started to believe it.

[JesseFrank]

Isn't it so that if you have a Citibank account in the US, or anywhere in the world, you can withdraw the money from Citibank Thailand without charge ?

So I guess it must be possible to transfer it online from your Citibank Thailand account to any other Thai bank account with a minimum charge.

http://www.citibank.co.th/

[simon43]

Unlike Bangkok Bank, KTB has no branch in the USA, so ABA transfers are not possible.

If your US bank does not accept SWIFT or IBAN routing codes then I suggest you use another bank because any half-decent bank will always allow SWIFT/IBAN routing codes.....

[csabo]

Jesse: No is the short answer. I followed a bloggers advice last month and got took $600 from the Ctitbank ATM at the Citibank branch on Asok in BKK thinking I was drawing from my active US Citibank account fee free. Foreign transaction fee added was almost $20. As far as your other statement about transfers the question is what kind of transfer. An international outgoing wire from the US major banks is at about $40 right now, the good news is that it is per transaction so a large lump sums should technically be the same $40 as a smaller wire. However it seems that there are always hidden cost they fail to mention. I am going to try a Chase wire to my KTB account this week and will post the outcome. The USD to Bhat rate is fairly high these days so we shall see.

[csabo]

Simon: Its true. KTB apparently does not have a NY branch but they do have offices at 415 Madison Av NY NY 10017. Its a little misleading when they call themselves the first Thai bank in NY then you find out that its not a true branch environment. I use Chase among others in the US and I never said they don't accept incoming swifts. In fact this entire thread is about outgoing transfers from the US. Furthermore Chase will allow a wire to go via SWIFT to Thailand but the fee is $40 per transaction. The concept I have proposed here is sending cash via ABA, fee free from US based Chase to the NY US BKK Bank branch then tap a BKK Bank branch ATM in Thailand thereby avoiding ALLLLLLL fees except for the exchange rate.

[JesseFrank]

Jesse: No is the short answer. I followed a bloggers advice last month and got took $600 from the Ctitbank ATM at the Citibank branch on Asok in BKK thinking I was drawing from my active US Citibank account fee free. Foreign transaction fee added was almost $20. As far as your other statement about transfers the question is what kind of transfer. An international outgoing wire from the US major banks is at about $40 right now, the good news is that it is per transaction so a large lump sums should technically be the same $40 as a smaller wire. However it seems that there are always hidden cost they fail to mention. I am going to try a Chase wire to my KTB account this week and will post the outcome. The USD to Bhat rate is fairly high these days so we shall see.

I'm sure the option to withdraw without charge from the Citibank ATM was available in the past. I was offered that option before in my country, but since there are no Citibank ATM's in Pattaya and online banking wasn't available yet at that time, it wasn't valuable for me.

But for sure it was still available early this year, as I recall a post on this forum regarding that option.

A possibilty is that you need to register an account with Citibank Thailand as well to have that option. I would try to give them a call and ask about.

Edited June 24, 2014 by JesseFrank

[csabo]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

[JesseFrank]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

Did you notice that in my post I several times used the words " in the past ".

There is another large american bank that pays back the transaction charges, even the 250 Baht charged by the Thai bank, when withdrawing from any ATM, but the name slips as I'm not an American.

A search on this forum will reveal the name since it has been posted many times already.

[NomadJoe]

I have an account at the Bangkok Bank branch in Rawai where you were denied/hustled at. I got it with no WP, but it was with a verbal agreement that I will be getting one soon and would present it to the manager at a later date. which I did. I have also successfully used the branch in New York. It is not a true branch either, but I did successfully use it to transfer funds years ago but I cant remember the details. Sorry.

K-Bank does not require WP's and works well for online purchases. Bangkok Banks debit cards for some reason don't work with Air Asia anymore. Very frustrating.

[manarak]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

Your best bet for cheap and simple money transfers is SWIFT.

If Chase charges 40 USD per SWIFT, get a bank that charges less. If I remember well, there are plenty which charge 15 or 20 USD.

Open your Thai account with Kasikorn. In addition to more flexible policies regarding foreigners and online banking, their exchange rates are very good too.

Transfer 10.000 USD at a time and the total fee will be around 0.3% - very acceptable.

[simon43]

...thereby avoiding ALLLLLLL fees except for the exchange rate.

I don't think you will be able to find a bank that will allow international funds transfers fee-free, (unless it is some special arrangement for high-worth individuals etc)

[keestha]

For international transfers Katsikorn Bank works well. Money remitted to me from abroad usually lands in my account in 2 days.

Often it is less easy than it should be in the 21th century though. When customers experience problems, I have to advise them to stop trying to do it online, but make their way to the bank branch office. Also they should do it through a major bank at the local main office, where they hopefully have experience with international dealings.

It is a bit hit and miss, in case of bad luck the bank officer at home who talks to them can be an absolute zero who knows nothing and doesn't take the trouble to make inquiries, but they can also have good luck and have the case successfully handled by an experienced old hand.

Writing this, I seem to remember transfers from US/Canada are more often problematic than those made from Europe, Australia or South Africa.

[csabo]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

Did you notice that in my post I several times used the words " in the past ".

There is another large american bank that pays back the transaction charges, even the 250 Baht charged by the Thai bank, when withdrawing from any ATM, but the name slips as I'm not an American.

A search on this forum will reveal the name since it has been posted many times already.

Yes, I did notice you used the words in the past. That is why I re-used the exact phase to show emphasis. My point however was that you also used the phrase "withdraw without charge from the Citibank ATM". So when that phrase is searched in the future, it will lead people to a post that does not help them and only gives information about the past. Which is exactly what happened to me in BKK. The internet is a big place but one person can make a difference. Lets keep it useful together.

[csabo]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

Your best bet for cheap and simple money transfers is SWIFT.

If Chase charges 40 USD per SWIFT, get a bank that charges less. If I remember well, there are plenty which charge 15 or 20 USD.

Open your Thai account with Kasikorn. In addition to more flexible policies regarding foreigners and online banking, their exchange rates are very good too.

Transfer 10.000 USD at a time and the total fee will be around 0.3% - very acceptable.

You are totally wrong about US banks charging $20 or less. http://www.mybanktracker.com/news/2014/04/24/wire-transfer-fees-compared-top-10-banks-spring-2014/ Average these days is $47.50. In fact, Chase is on the bottom of the price list.

Thanks for the info on K Bank I will check it out.

[NamKangMan]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

Your best bet for cheap and simple money transfers is SWIFT.

If Chase charges 40 USD per SWIFT, get a bank that charges less. If I remember well, there are plenty which charge 15 or 20 USD.

Open your Thai account with Kasikorn. In addition to more flexible policies regarding foreigners and online banking, their exchange rates are very good too.

Transfer 10.000 USD at a time and the total fee will be around 0.3% - very acceptable.

I suggest you transfer $9,999USD at a time, for reasons you will easily find on Google, and have been discussed on TV in other threads.

[manarak]

Jesse: It was..in the past. Reflecting on it won't make it come back. Posting about it will lead people to believe it exists which will lead to unexpected fees i.e. my experience in BKK Citibank. An example of one of the few banks that don't murder you when abroad is Capital One. Once I discovered they do not charge any foreign transaction fee at all I started using it everywhere I could but many areas of Thailand a a cash society which is why transfers, wires, local accounts, ATM fees and all other cash related activities deserve scrutiny.

Your best bet for cheap and simple money transfers is SWIFT.

If Chase charges 40 USD per SWIFT, get a bank that charges less. If I remember well, there are plenty which charge 15 or 20 USD.

Open your Thai account with Kasikorn. In addition to more flexible policies regarding foreigners and online banking, their exchange rates are very good too.

Transfer 10.000 USD at a time and the total fee will be around 0.3% - very acceptable.

I suggest you transfer $9,999USD at a time, for reasons you will easily find on Google, and have been discussed on TV in other threads.

correct.

I forgot OP's international transfers are being scrutinized

[Jingthing]

Actually a bunch of $9999 transfers will do the opposite of avoiding attention. It will be a massive RED FLAG.