Visa crackdown: Is this the end of the road for unqualified ESL teachers in Thailand?

[rjcampbe]

"Thais DON'T NEED English teachers from abroad because millions Thais speak a perfect English and can teach to the children."

 

------------------------------

 

That is a ridiculous statement...

 

Yes. There are Thai's that speak English well enough that they could teach the language. But not very many.

 

I would bet it is 100 times more likely to have Thai teachers who teach English who don't have the language proficiency to order lunch in English. As an example, in the course of my work in Thailand, I recently met a newly graduated English teacher... She had a bachelors degree in education from a Thai university and had specifically studied to teach English... She could not speak well enough to get through a basic greeting. Hello. How are you? I'm fine. Where are you from? etc... My Thai is better than her English and believe me, my Thai SUCKS. Most bar girls have better English skills than this "qualified" English teacher.

 

And, most of the Thai's who DO have the skills to teach English are upper class Thai's who were educated in international schools and/or overseas and probably completed degrees there as well. It is pretty damn unlikely that they would take a job at 20-25k baht a month to teach English in a government school. Get real.

 

This is one of the many places where Thailand should really look at it's own needs and set reasonable policies that help to prepare the country for economic development and national competitiveness. Improving the English language skills of the country should be near the top of that list for tourism, for international business, for ASEAN AEC, etc.

 

For instance, why not create a program to encourage native English speakers to come teach here legally? With appropriate visas, established training criteria (which does not need to be a full teaching credential in many cases), and access to a work permit or a process to exempt them from needing a work permit for a specified period... 6 months or so... After which, if the school wanted to keep them, they would have to get the full documentation...

 

But, instead... protectionism and xenophobia backed by corruption and incompetence rule the day. TIT.

[Bernard Flint]

 

LETS BE HONEST GUYS

 

A big proportion of uk guys who teach with a tefl course,dont have a work permit, and have spoilt it for many people 

 

I'm sure they would not turn one down if it was offered - therein lies the problem, they are needed (obviously otherwise they would not find employment so easily!) yet cannot do it legally. So a blind eye was turned for a long time. Rather than sorting this out logically, by allowing for TEFL educated teacher's assistants and language school teachers, they deign to throw them all out. Thereby ensuring the worst possible outcome for the scenario. Logic has never been a strong (or even often evident) attribute to Thai policy and the Junta is continuing the trend. So much for learning from their mistakes in 2006, seems they are repeating them with the same xenophobic crap that stung them then too.

 

Why cant they apply for a work permit themselves,rather than praying the emploer gives them one free, or am i missing something,and i arent no expert,just got good eyes and ears

[mjj]

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.

[wolf5370]

A few months back I was in a small town upcountry heading towards the night market. Outside a shop was a young boy with his mum doing his English homework. Mum stopped us and asked if we spoke English and could we talk to her son. I looked at the English text book, a Thai English text book. It was quite difficult to help the kid because his "English" book was complete gibberish.
I also remember many years ago meeting a woman who told me that she was an English teacher in a local school. We chatted in "English" for 10 or 15 minutes and to this day I haven't a clue what she was taking about.

 

I have often talked here about my wife's aunt. She teaches English at university and has done for the better part of 20 years. She has a masters degree in English. I cannot understand a work she says in English, and she is likewise. Write it down and she is fine.

 

If you have ever sat in on a Thai teacher teaching English, you will notice it is all board and worksheet based - hardly any vocal or listening in involved. They often have a good understanding of grammar, but no ability to use it as their vocabulary is severely restricted and they have no communication skills. My wife had her tertiary education in the UK, has lived and worked in the UK (holds dual nationality) and is fluent. She can joke and understand jokes in English (even with our strange humour) and understands inflection etc - this only comes from immersion, which means a minimum of native English speakers and summer camps.

[rjcampbe]

Firstly, anyone who thinks that there are enough English speaking Thais to fill any provinces teaching roster is mistaken. I work at a billingual school where several Thai teachers have Masters degrees in English and they can hardly tell me what they did over the weekend. Their grammar is usually better than mine ( I teach science and math not English) but they can not actually speak the language ( priority check ).

 

Secondly, on the topic of ESL teachers being targeted during this Visa crackdown. I do think it is fair that Thailand demands at least a bachelors degree in any field, this is a very reasonable request. However, I do not think that a degree in education automatically makes you a good/better teacher.

In business I worked with many MBAs who i felt were a waste of a salary.

 

Lastly, to blame even unqualified teachers without degrees for Thailands English language skills is a big joke and a conveniant way to shift Thai problems onto anyone and anything that is not Thai.

 

I teach in a private billingual school which is populated by children from wealthy families. Even at this school, if I take a globe and ask several 7th grade students to locate major countries, they are lost. Math is math and they learn it in Thai as well. When they cannot complete the work i give them, I ask to see their Thai workbooks as well and they are no better. I speak enough Thai to ask my students questions in Thai, still to almost no avail in many cases. Thailand is extremely low on everyfront of education. A handful of " unqualified " teachers giving a class 2 hours of English instruction a week is not to blame for the complete, systematic failure of Education in Thailand.

 

 

nbuff,

 

Kudos my friend. Well said. I wish I could "Like" this post twice!

[Bernard Flint]

 

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.

 

i DID SAY, there has to be some good english teachers out there.Would have loved a cola with you at weekend but a long way for me, thanks anyway

[mjj]

 

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.
 

i DID SAY, there has to be some good english teachers out there.Would have loved a cola with you at weekend but a long way for me, thanks anyway

In all honesty your generalisation is quite correct though. 555. Most of the teachers I have met have been utter douche bags! :-)

[Rorri]

 

 

Don't most countries have qualifications and working visa requirements for teachers? What's wrong with Thailand doing the same?

 

OT: I am just going to take a wild guess here: unqualified students with ED visas of convenience will be next in the clearing out.

In case you have only just woken up, it comes down to money, qualified people can make more in other countries, why come to Thailand and settle for maybe 30000 baht a month. Thailand needs english teachers more than english teachers needing Thailand. Hope this isn't to hard for you to understand.

 

Yeah, absolutely no one would rather be in Thailand on B30k/mo than in Iran on B60k/mo

 

 

Mmm, I admit to not fully understanding your comment, maybe you are being sarcastic, but who knows why.

[Bobsufc]

(Annouced on radio FM 88.5  today :- They are allowing Chinese and Taiwanese citizens in without a visa for 2 months period of this year while its school holidays are on in China.)

So it doesn't take much to change things

 

Thailand should bring in a special Teachers visa  for native English speakers only.    Allowing teachers to teach conversation only ( if they have a TEFL ) After they find a job and work for a year. They can teach qualify to grammar if they pass a grammar test. 

 

What can they lose ?

 

[duanebigsby]

Anyone who thinks losing any English teacher here is a good thing, is bonkers.
 
My ex won some annual award for speaking English in public.
 
It was no small award every college in Bangkok had a representaive.
 
ok enough of that.
 
The point is she used to bring home loads of paperwork, from her Thai English teacher, for me to check.
 
I am no genius when it comes to grammer but most of what her teacher was teaching her and her classmates was not of this planet
 
The amount of incorrect words used to decribe situations and circumstances were mindboggling
 
It seemed to me they would translate a Thai word to English get a few different choices and pick one with a pin.
 
One I remember was...."We gone together to see penquins in zoological collectively"
 
Of course they are good Thai teachers teaching English here, but I reckon they need all the help they can get.

This is perfectly said!
I'm lucky to be at a school with very good Thai English teachers.
They are better at teaching grammar than us foreigners.
What they are really good at, however, is asking us NES teachers
to double check their tests and assignments. I'm so glad they feel they can ask our help and I'm sure the students are better off for it as well.

[duanebigsby]

LETS BE HONEST GUYS
 
A big proportion of uk guys who teach with a tefl course,dont have a work permit, and have spoilt it for many people

 
I'm sure they would not turn one down if it was offered - therein lies the problem, they are needed (obviously otherwise they would not find employment so easily!) yet cannot do it legally. So a blind eye was turned for a long time. Rather than sorting this out logically, by allowing for TEFL educated teacher's assistants and language school teachers, they deign to throw them all out. Thereby ensuring the worst possible outcome for the scenario. Logic has never been a strong (or even often evident) attribute to Thai policy and the Junta is continuing the trend. So much for learning from their mistakes in 2006, seems they are repeating them with the same xenophobic crap that stung them then too.

Why cant they apply for a work permit themselves,rather than praying the emploer gives them one free, or am i missing something,and i arent no expert,just got good eyes and ears

Have you seen the application. Floor plans of the School, school's business permit, signatures of each board member, affidavits from director and principal....list goes on.

[connda]

Yep!  Right after the successful crackdown on traffic offenders. 

[Rorri]

 

If there is a great shortage of native speaker TEFL instructors then the void will be filled by ASEAN. There are many, many teachers in Philippines or Myanmar who have excellent English language skills and who find the wage scale in Thailand quite adequate. 

 

Agreed. And all the unqualified but eminently more crucial 'native' English speakers that have been here 'teaching' their students cringe worthy things such as, "You should of done your homework," or "You should of payed attention yesterday," can bugger off back to their regular jobs as a cab driver or brick layer where, "You should of caught the bus," and "You should of made more cement," only makes the speaker look like a tool.

 

Not "perfect" english, but quite understandable.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Rorri

[larsjohnsson]

A decent TEFL is what's needed to teach English in Europe, so why does Thailand think it can demand more? The wages?

Isn't this just a way to get rid of native speakers? I expect Filipino and Malaysian English teachers to be the norm soon.

Where in Europe ? Not in my home country

[Rorri]

 

 

 

They are going to quit teaching ESL.

The future looks to be MSL (Mandarin).

I doubt Thai schools will stop teaching English anytime soon. The business language of ASEAN, and the world, is currently English. There are millions of 'qualified' Filipino English teachers who would love to fill Thailand's need for ESL teachers. By qualified, I mean degreed, many with education degrees in teaching English.

 

Of course, then you have the accreditation of the degree granting institution to question--but that question exists with the many dubiously 'degreed' falang ESL teachers too.

 

In the future, if and when the US drops drastically in global economic strength--like the Brits have already done--Mandarin may indeed take over as the lingua franca of business, in Asia at least.  Mandarin is already taught in most Thai schools.

 

 

"Mandarin is already taught in most Thai schools." really, wow, this is news to me, and I'm sure news to the many Isaan schools I've been to.

 

 

My partner from Suratthani  had to go to uni in Bangkok to get her degree in Mandarin, and now we are being told that it is being taught in schools, goodness me!  how the Thai education has improved in recent years.
 

 

Wow, that would have taken a few years.... or a few baht. Mandarin has 10,000 characters with most chinese taking 15 plus years just to learn 3000 of them.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

A decent TEFL is what's needed to teach English in Europe, so why does Thailand think it can demand more? The wages?

Isn't this just a way to get rid of native speakers? I expect Filipino and Malaysian English teachers to be the norm soon.

I didn't think you could teach in any children's' school (junior or high) in Europe without a degree.
Same in the USA.

Adult education is different, less qualifications and less wages.

[GoonDizzy]

The craziest thing is this:

 

Mr Bloggs from London goes to Uni in the UK. He wants to teach English as a second language. He's not interested in teaching the spoilt Hi-So mob in the Inter schools. Gets himself a First Degree in English Language combined with TESOL. He then goes on to study for a PGCEi. For the layman, it's a post grad designed to teach foreign students English.

 

Mr Bloggs goes to Singapore. They all want him. Even telling him he didn't need to get the PGCEi. In fact, a degree in Flower Arranging would've done nicely. ''Anyhooz Mr Bloggs, how does 5,000 US Dollars a month sound?'' He goes to HK. Same thing happens. In Europe, he's having interviews for jobs and competing with folk with just accredited TESOLs and DELTAs/CELTAs.

 

Comes to Thailand. ''Sorry Mr Bloggs. Your degree IN TEACHING ENGLISH TO FOREIGN STUDENTS AND YOUR POST GRAD IN THE SAME SUBJECT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR A TL! You can have a waiver for now, but you're not qualified to teach English to Thai students.  Now go and do a Masters in Ed and we'll see, but you can never change your job. See, you can't go 'in/out' again to cancel a visa in order to get a new one. So, we'll screw with you...because we can.'' To me this means either someone at the MOE has NO IDEA about education or there is something else more sinister going on.

 

It's hard for those with families here (I'm one), but screw it. Thailand doesn't want us here so go elsewhere. There are other opportunities, so if you haven't got the degree/M.Ed...start now! If Thailand is your only love then hopefully common sense will have prevailed by the time you finish.

 

If not...Asean opens and places like Singapore will snap you up. Even HK would cream over themselves to have you. It works both ways.

[Rorri]

To just  be able to have any understanding English conversation with a Thai, is 'worth its weight in gold'   so just to be able to teach conversational English is very important. I do not think that it is necessary to have a uni degree to do this.  A very good example (so i am told.  lololol) is the uneducated Isaan girl who turns up to work in a bar, Usually she learns to speak and understand English quite quickly, and believe me it is not from the English lessons of an English Degree teacher..........Does this not prove a point.   TESL teachers are needed in Thailand. I am not a TESL teacher but a retiree with his eyes and ears open. The Military are doing the kids of Thailand a massive disservice

Absolutely right, so many posts here believe that ALL Thais should be taught perfect english, in reading, writing and speaking. The truth is most only need conversational english. I for one don't give a rats whether the teacher is "qualified" or not, as long as they try and are better than the Thai teachers.

[duanebigsby]

The craziest thing is this:
 
Mr Bloggs from London goes to Uni in the UK. He wants to teach English as a second language. He's not interested in teaching the spoilt Hi-So mob in the Inter schools. Gets himself a First Degree in English Language combined with TESOL. He then goes on to study for a PGCEi. For the layman, it's a post grad designed to teach foreign students English.
 
Mr Bloggs goes to Singapore. They all want him. Even telling him he didn't need to get the PGCEi. In fact, a degree in Flower Arranging would've done nicely. ''Anyhooz Mr Bloggs, how does 5,000 US Dollars a month sound?'' He goes to HK. Same thing happens. In Europe, he's having interviews for jobs and competing with folk with just accredited TESOLs and DELTAs/CELTAs.
 
Comes to Thailand. ''Sorry Mr Bloggs. Your degree IN TEACHING ENGLISH TO FOREIGN STUDENTS AND YOUR POST GRAD IN THE SAME SUBJECT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR A TL! You can have a waiver for now, but you're not qualified to teach English to Thai students.  Now go and do a Masters in Ed and we'll see, but you can never change your job. See, you can't go 'in/out' again to cancel a visa in order to get a new one. So, we'll screw with you...because we can.'' To me this means either someone at the MOE has NO IDEA about education or there is something else more sinister going on.
 
It's hard for those with families here (I'm one), but screw it. Thailand doesn't want us here so go elsewhere. There are other opportunities, so if you haven't got the degree/M.Ed...start now! If Thailand is your only love then hopefully common sense will have prevailed by the time you finish.
 
If not...Asean opens and places like Singapore will snap you up. Even HK would cream over themselves to have you. It works both ways.

You don't need a degree in education to get a teaching license.
With a degree in ANY subject you get waivers. Then you do one silly course in Thai ethics and culture, and after you take 4 standardized tests which gives you your license. You have YEARS to do it.

[Bernard Flint]

 

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.

 

BTW

 

were you on a TEFL 

[Bernard Flint]

 

 

 

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.
 

i DID SAY, there has to be some good english teachers out there.Would have loved a cola with you at weekend but a long way for me, thanks anyway

In all honesty your generalisation is quite correct though. 555. Most of the teachers I have met have been utter douche bags! :-)

 

i HAVE MET SOME AND I WOULDNT LET THEM TEACH ENGLISH TO A PARROT,oops sorry for upper case

[mjj]

A decent TEFL is what's needed to teach English in Europe, so why does Thailand think it can demand more? The wages?

Isn't this just a way to get rid of native speakers? I expect Filipino and Malaysian English teachers to be the norm soon.

I didn't think you could teach in any children's' school (junior or high) in Europe without a degree.
Same in the USA.

Adult education is different, less qualifications and less wages.

You may be right. Maybe what happens in Europe is that TEFLers only teach in language schools, although they still cater to children.

On that train if thought, maybe schools should employ only Thais in the school and farang in the language schools. Although that doesn't seem to be a good idea.........

[Jaggg88]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

I always love when people say Thais could teach English. There are certainly fluent english speakers here, but they can command a much higher salary doing almost anything else than teaching. Having taught a number of Teacher Training camps, the 'fluency' of Thai English teachers is a major factor in Thai students scoring so low on competency tests. Also there are more than a few ESL certificates that are rigourous in their training and include observed classroom instruction and have a internationally standardized grading system. Why wouldn't these people be qualifed to teach? They would be in other countries.

I agree Grimmbro. Just because someone has partied their way thro' a media studies degree doesn't make them  'qualified' to teach English - at least the TEFL course tries to give the prospective teacher some of the skills required. The TEFL course does need standardizing tho' as my friend recently took a TEFL course in Manchester and it took just one weekend with no real classroom practice whereas my friend in Thailand took his course in Pattaya and it took 5 days with 2 of those being monitored in a real classroom.

[GoonDizzy]

 

The craziest thing is this:
 
Mr Bloggs from London goes to Uni in the UK. He wants to teach English as a second language. He's not interested in teaching the spoilt Hi-So mob in the Inter schools. Gets himself a First Degree in English Language combined with TESOL. He then goes on to study for a PGCEi. For the layman, it's a post grad designed to teach foreign students English.
 
Mr Bloggs goes to Singapore. They all want him. Even telling him he didn't need to get the PGCEi. In fact, a degree in Flower Arranging would've done nicely. ''Anyhooz Mr Bloggs, how does 5,000 US Dollars a month sound?'' He goes to HK. Same thing happens. In Europe, he's having interviews for jobs and competing with folk with just accredited TESOLs and DELTAs/CELTAs.
 
Comes to Thailand. ''Sorry Mr Bloggs. Your degree IN TEACHING ENGLISH TO FOREIGN STUDENTS AND YOUR POST GRAD IN THE SAME SUBJECT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR A TL! You can have a waiver for now, but you're not qualified to teach English to Thai students.  Now go and do a Masters in Ed and we'll see, but you can never change your job. See, you can't go 'in/out' again to cancel a visa in order to get a new one. So, we'll screw with you...because we can.'' To me this means either someone at the MOE has NO IDEA about education or there is something else more sinister going on.
 
It's hard for those with families here (I'm one), but screw it. Thailand doesn't want us here so go elsewhere. There are other opportunities, so if you haven't got the degree/M.Ed...start now! If Thailand is your only love then hopefully common sense will have prevailed by the time you finish.
 
If not...Asean opens and places like Singapore will snap you up. Even HK would cream over themselves to have you. It works both ways.

You don't need a degree in education to get a teaching license.
With a degree in ANY subject you get waivers. Then you do one silly course in Thai ethics and culture, and after you take 4 standardized tests which gives you your license. You have YEARS to do it.

 

 

Yup. I'm talkin' bout new teachers. This is from the gov website

 

In case of applicants’ teaching experience with less than 1 year, they shall provide a certification letter, issued by an educational institution, and submit it to the TCT for issuing a teaching practice certificate and permitting them to attend the training course.

 

So, you're hoping that they will allow you to even take the courses you're talking about. You could get the TL after getting teaching experience of one year. Assuming you pass the Thai tests. Many schools have not told their teachers about the regs. A mate of mine (with a wife and child) had his permit refused as his degree wasn't in Education. Yeah, yeah. Maybe he shoulda, coulda looked on the internet, but he'd been teaching here for over a decade with his degree without any issues and thought he was good to go. He's now back in blighty doing a Masters. And from what I've heard (could be nonsense), the waiver scheme will end. The degree in Ed will become the requirement. Who knows? One thing is for sure. Thailand will have the toughest requirements in Asia to obtain a TL.

[brewsterbudgen]

A decent TEFL is what's needed to teach English in Europe, so why does Thailand think it can demand more? The wages?

Isn't this just a way to get rid of native speakers? I expect Filipino and Malaysian English teachers to be the norm soon.

I didn't think you could teach in any children's' school (junior or high) in Europe without a degree.
Same in the USA.

Adult education is different, less qualifications and less wages.

You may be right. Maybe what happens in Europe is that TEFLers only teach in language schools, although they still cater to children.

On that train if thought, maybe schools should employ only Thais in the school and farang in the language schools. Although that doesn't seem to be a good idea.........

Most TEFL/TESL teaching in the UK is for new immigrants and asylum seekers.

[mjj]

 

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.
 

BTW
 
were you on a TEFL 

I have a CELTA and a degree, although the degree is not in education. TBH, having worked as a teacher and on the hiring and firing side, I would consider a CELTA or TRINITY certificate much more preferable than a general degree. Just my opinion.

[kaldoverde]

If farang employees are really needed employers will start sorting their visas out, so in my humble opinion this is pretty much a non issue. If you are an enterpreneur or business owner simply folow the rules, create a company, give jobs to Thai people and you can have your visa regardless.

 

I am happy to see an effort being made to clean up the house. On the short run it may seem harsh on the people who have been living here on back to back visas, in the long run though it will ensure that immmigrants have adequate permission to stay for extended periods.

 

We don't take kindly on illegal immigrants back in the west, so I don't really see why Thailand should do the same. In the UK you could also argue that english people would starve if there was a crackdown on illegal chinese and pakistani immigrants who run the millions of takeways that feed its middle class, or that america couldn't live without the mexicans mowing lawns and cleaning houses, but we all know that is not true, so same applies to Thailand. As much as we like to think we are god's gift to Thai society, Thai people can go on living without us as much as we can go on living without them.

 

To be honest, Thailand seems to be westernizing its immigration policies and that can only be a good thing in terms of transparency and security both for the law enforcement agencies and the safety of the immigrant population. For a country under such scrutiny for human trafficking and a poor human rights record I believe this is one small step towards the betterment of Thai society and should be praised.

 

 

 

 

[Bernard Flint]

 

 

 

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

Ha, ha, ha!

I've just stopped being an English teacher in Thailand. Nothing to do with what's going on, I'm just moving on to greener pastures, but if you live on Samui feel free to send me a PM. I will take you to a bar or restaurant and buy you a drink. I will even pick you up in my car.

I'll introduce you to my family and you can ask my wife when the last time I got drunk was.

The only thing I ask for in return is you stop making dumb generalisations.
 

BTW
 
were you on a TEFL 

I have a CELTA and a degree, although the degree is not in education. TBH, having worked as a teacher and on the hiring and firing side, I would consider a CELTA or TRINITY certificate much more preferable than a general degree. Just my opinion.

 

You are different than the average Tefl teacher.This used to be the easy route of staying in Thailand with no assets, but schools arent giving work permits now. i have only met TEFL Teachers and without repeating what you said, i agree.

[brewsterbudgen]

I have a CELTA and a degree, although the degree is not in education. TBH, having worked as a teacher and on the hiring and firing side, I would consider a CELTA or TRINITY certificate much more preferable than a general degree. Just my opinion.

Yes, a CELTA or Trinity is pretty much the gold standard for TEFL. A degree or not, is inconsequential - but not in Thailand!

[Bernard Flint]

If farang employees are really needed employers will start sorting their visas out, so in my humble opinion this is pretty much a non issue. If you are an enterpreneur or business owner simply folow the rules, create a company, give jobs to Thai people and you can have your visa regardless.

 

I am happy to see an effort being made to clean up the house. On the short run it may seem harsh on the people who have been living here on back to back visas, in the long run though it will ensure that immmigrants have adequate permission to stay for extended periods.

 

We don't take kindly on illegal immigrants back in the west, so I don't really see why Thailand should do the same. In the UK you could also argue that english people would starve if there was a crackdown on illegal chinese and pakistani immigrants who run the millions of takeways that feed its middle class, or that america couldn't live without the mexicans mowing lawns and cleaning houses, but we all know that is not true, so same applies to Thailand. As much as we like to think we are god's gift to Thai society, Thai people can go on living without us as much as we can go on living without them.

 

To be honest, Thailand seems to be westernizing its immigration policies and that can only be a good thing in terms of transparency and security both for the law enforcement agencies and the safety of the immigrant population. For a country under such scrutiny for human trafficking and a poor human rights record I believe this is one small step towards the betterment of Thai society and should be praised.

 

 

 

 

Sir

 

 I take my hat off to you, very sensible post, wholeheartedly agree with your thought process.