MH17: Malaysia Airlines Plane Shot Down Near Ukraine Border

[Yann55]

Yes, you two gentlemen are probably right. It's just that as a Malaysian, I am feeling emotional right now

Look, my friend... surely you can see that there there is something very wrong in your reaction. Are you upset because it's a Malaysian aircraft ? Would you not be upset and emotional if it were, say, an Indonesian or Dutch aircraft ? If the flight was a regular AMS-KUL I'm pretty sure there were lots of non-Malaysians onboard. Are you upset about them too ?

I don't want to sound harsh and I do understand that you must be shaken (air accidents are known to have a much stronger emotional impact on everyone, for all kinds of reasons) but what on earth does nationality have to do with a tragic event like this ?

Many Westerners who don't know much about the far East repeatedly say, once they've been here for a while, how shocked they are by the lack of empathy they often get to witness in Asians. They don't see the whole picture of course, and the Confucian paradigm here is extremely confusing unless you've spent a long time trying to figure it out. For example I'd say that most Asians are capable of showing extreme empathy if a member of their 'tribe' (for lack of a better word) is in trouble. But it is true, and undeniable, that they can also show a disturbing lack of empathy if the person is a 'stranger'.

All countries make sure that their citizens are brought up with a strong sense of nationalism and that, in my humble opinion, is pure evil. But it is repeatedly presented as normal and even wonderful. In truth, however, there is simply no justification for nationalism, and the only thing borders ever caused among humankind is trouble, hate, massacres and even genocides.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Yann55

[lostsoul49]

Watching the UK Sky News for the past 2 hours.

They make the logical reasoning that the Russians and pro Russian rebels would have no interests in shooting down a civilian aircraft.

However, when i think deeper into it.

The Ukrainian government may however have interests as a propaganda stunt to encourage the pro-Russian rebels to stop shooting at their military aircraft.... Think about it.

I am very suspicious of the dialogue coming out of Kiev within a short time of this incident and the words they are using..... Like they already had a composed script.......very suspicious.

With satellite observation, and a guarantee that the US and others are already scanning the area for the presence of munitions capable of reaching the plane and the area it happened can be pretty much pinpointed. So it is not going to be too difficult to track back the satellite images with nice blue skies and in the middle of the afternoon.

How about considering the Russian armed and backed pro Russian rebels who incidentially are led by a Russian agent, who has warned about flying in Ukrainian airspace. Think about it LS 49 !!!

Trust me... I have thought deeply about this.

Warning people not to fly in Ukraine airspace tells us what exactly? It tells us that Ukrainian military planes are being shot down by the rebels because these planes have been bombing civilian targets in the rebel towns.

No big secret that the pro-Russians are doing that... they never denied it.

Just advising everyone other than Ukrainian military that it is not safe.... which it isn't.

Russia has nothing to gain from this action. Neither do the rebels, and there is no way they did not identify that plane as a civilian aircraft flying at 33,000 feet in a civil air corridor still being regularly used before this incident. There must be scores of airlines flying daily along that route.

It would have been picked up on radar and also constantly pinging its identifier. Highly unlikely a case of mistaken identity.

No.... this was a deliberate attack and the attackers almost certainly knew what it was.

The only people who could make multiple gains from this act, is the Ukraine government.

Strange how they seemed to have a step by step script pretty much instantly afterwards, they even named the type of missile used. They had a mobile conversation all ready in their hands and handed to the press within a few short hours etc..... The suspicions are multiple.

They have so much to gain from this if they can make the mud stick.

They get to make the rebels look like the bad guys, they get international backing to go all out in wiping the rebels out (probably genocide style). They force the Russians to shy away from backing the rebels because of international condemnation.

I believe that true details will emerge over the coming days... The US will probably already know the actual truth because they will have already scrutinized satellite recording of the area and they can pretty much pinpoint to a few metres when the plane was struck and rewind and track back for the missile trajectory and will be able to see what launched it.

If it was Russian, they will almost certainly publish it.... If there is total silence from them, then we will know I was right and was probably a SAM fired by Ukraine forces or a missile fired from one of their air force jets.

If evidence is brought to prove it was actually all orchestrated by the Ukraine neo nazi government.... That is the end of Ukraine, Russia will invade it and take the country, and not much can be said really.

[oldsailor35]

Its Ukraniane separatists who are to blame.

They had Russian supplied Bak surface to air missiles that they had success with bringing down Ukrainian military aircraft in last few days and had been bragging about with social media tweets. There is a series of tweets between a Russian Army Major supporting the separatists and two of the separatists were skiteing that they had brought down another "bird" and records the tweets going through the identification of realising that it was not another Ukrainian military plane but a civilian plane. The tweets were then pulled. But not before a news agency had recorded it all. Would explain to that if it was the Russians then they would have had the backup technology to do the simple thing that every hunter is taught "identify your target before you pull the trigger or push that button". The Americans from what I understand have already identified that it was a missile fired from within Ukraine. These separatist ass holes had the rockets and launcher but did not have the back up tech to ID their target. Putin has already opened his over sized mouth and porned the blame onto the Ukraine Army but he is going to have to do some serious ass covering when the full story breaks.

It appears that the weapon used to carry out this act of terrorism was supplied by that arrogant bastard Phutin. So the 'buck' stops with him.

[wealth]

live link to radar

http://www.flightradar24.com/WRC6081/3d7cd62

[Lammbock]

All the Airlines are avoiding the Ukrainian airspace. This is a good thing.

THAI also confirms it will avoid Ukraine airspace.

THAI confirms no THAI flights operate over Ukraine airspace.

THAI flights to and from Europe have been rerouted to avoid Ukraine airspace and that no flights are operating over the airspace.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Lammbock

[Rooo]

Off topic, conspiracy theory posts & replies containing them deleted..

[Tywais]

Post commenting on moderation removed.

Edit: Numerous other off-topic posts and replies deleted.

Please stay on topic.

[MJCM]

Very much OT.

I don't have any persons on my Ignore list, but there is definitely one that is coming close to be added to it.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[Thunder26]

Just to point out that there were shot down several planes by Russian separatists over Eastern Ukraine in the last few months.

April 22nd - an Ukrainian military plane was shot down (12 people killed)

June 7th - an Ukrainian freight plane was shot down (49 people killed)

June 14 - an Ukrainian fight plane was shot down (the pilot managed to escape)

July 17th - an Ukrainian fight plane was shot down (the pilot managed to escape)

[harrry]

Just be because the plane took a signifigently more northern course is not suspicious in itself but is worth considering. There are signifigent weather reports in the area that may have made that advisable but would be a factor to consider.

Edited July 18, 2014 by harrry

[kingalfred]

Now reported the Russians have the flight data recorder and its on the way to moscow for investigation by them.A case of we shot it down we are going to say what happened.Russian Federation have to know they will regret ever giving power to the KGB gangster Putin . A long cold war is now in the cards and the EU and USA will be forced to enforce the toughest sanctions possible.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BKKBrit]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dutch man posted a photo of the plane before boarding. The caption on his FB page read:

"If it disappears, this is what it looks like"

Seen that one also, but decided against it to post it as it is too eerie.


Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

There is something not right about this.

This FB post made its rounds out and about just before midnight last night, Thailand time.

If you look at the original (Clearer) picture on the guy's FB page you will notice the registration letters RC on the nosewheel door. The full registration of this pictured plane is 9M-MRC. However, the one that crashed was sister B777 9M-MRD.
9M-MRC is currently en-route from KL to Dhaka and over Myanmar as I write this.

So something is not quite right about the image on the Dutch guy's FB page.

Edited July 18, 2014 by BKKBrit

[Don Mega]

Now reported the Russians have the flight data recorder and its on the way to moscow for investigation by them.A case of we shot it down we are going to say what happened.Russian Federation have to know they will regret ever giving power to the KGB gangster Putin . A long cold war is now in the cards and the EU and USA will be forced to enforce the toughest sanctions possible.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

But can the recorder tell them/anyone anything other than the flight was normal then within seconds the plane disintegrated ?

[belg]

is this an episode of 24 live another day? the script is similar to shoot something down, blame it on someone else and start a war

rip the passenger

[harrry]

Now reported the Russians have the flight data recorder and its on the way to moscow for investigation by them.A case of we shot it down we are going to say what happened.Russian Federation have to know they will regret ever giving power to the KGB gangster Putin . A long cold war is now in the cards and the EU and USA will be forced to enforce the toughest sanctions possible.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

But can the recorder tell them/anyone anything other than the flight was normal then within seconds the plane disintegrated ?

The one with the most information would be the cockpit voice recorder...as long as it did not just contain the one or two words an aussie would probably use when something like that is happening.

It would possiby have comments about the actions of the planes which were allegedly escorting it just prior to the incident.

[bkkjames]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dutch man posted a photo of the plane before boarding. The caption on his FB page read:

"If it disappears, this is what it looks like"

Seen that one also, but decided against it to post it as it is too eerie.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

There is something not right about this.

This FB post made its rounds out and about just before midnight last night, Thailand time.

If you look at the original (Clearer) picture on the guy's FB page you will notice the registration letters RC on the nosewheel door. The full registration of this pictured plane is 9M-MRC. However, the one that crashed was sister B777 9M-MRD.

9M-MRC is currently en-route from KL to Dhaka and over Myanmar as I write this.

So something is not quite right about the image on the Dutch guy's FB page.

Maybe the Missing Airliner? Who knows..

[BKKBrit]

Now reported the Russians have the flight data recorder and its on the way to moscow for investigation by them.A case of we shot it down we are going to say what happened.Russian Federation have to know they will regret ever giving power to the KGB gangster Putin . A long cold war is now in the cards and the EU and USA will be forced to enforce the toughest sanctions possible.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

But can the recorder tell them/anyone anything other than the flight was normal then within seconds the plane disintegrated ?

It also poses an interesting question as to who technically owns the Black Box. If, as I would presume, the Malaysians do, they should be able to get it back through diplomatic channels before it's tampered with. Or perhaps, if under law it belongs to the territory in which is was found, Ukraine, then it's been stolen. Either way, Russia should not have it hands on it.

What it will tell you is cockpit conversation in the seconds before and after impact but more importantly, the technical data will tell you what part of the plane of was hit

[BKKBrit]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dutch man posted a photo of the plane before boarding. The caption on his FB page read:

"If it disappears, this is what it looks like"

Seen that one also, but decided against it to post it as it is too eerie.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

There is something not right about this.

This FB post made its rounds out and about just before midnight last night, Thailand time.

If you look at the original (Clearer) picture on the guy's FB page you will notice the registration letters RC on the nosewheel door. The full registration of this pictured plane is 9M-MRC. However, the one that crashed was sister B777 9M-MRD.

9M-MRC is currently en-route from KL to Dhaka and over Myanmar as I write this.

So something is not quite right about the image on the Dutch guy's FB page.

Maybe the Missing Airliner? Who knows..

MH 370 was registration 9M-MRO

[chooka]

MH17: Where's the black box from the Malaysia Airlines plane shot down over Ukraine?

As the world reels from the news a passenger jet carrying 298 people has been shot down, confusion is growing about what has happened to the plane's "black box" flight recorder.

Russian radio station Kommersant FM reported that the black box had been sent to Moscow for investigation by the as yet unidentified group of Russian separatists.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-wheres-the-black-box-from-the-malaysia-airlines-plane-shot-down-over-ukraine-20140718-zub61.html#ixzz37n6Sr0MK

My opinion and only my opinion is that if the black box is in Moscow it must by handed over to international investigators now without opening it. Russia has been implicated in this disaster and should not be in possession of possible evidence.

Edited July 18, 2014 by chooka

[bkkjames]

What is the one on the ground? I don't know.

[bristolgeoff]

may they all rest in peace,this is a concern as many member may have being on the plane as well.i hope this will not happen again

[Mosha]

I had no idea you could shoot down a plane that was flying at 33,000 feet and if you did,

if it tumbled out of the sky, wouldn't it totally break apart?

if it tried to land, meaning the plane was crippled, was there no smoke?

probably hit from above in my opinion, something that just totally shut it down.

Gary Powers ringing any bells with you?

[harrry]

There are two separate "Black boxes" The data logger and the Cockpit Voice Recorder. Both of which would be sent to the authority having overall ICAO responsibility for the region in which the plane crashed. This authority rests with Russia as it is the authority responsible for that area.

[Suradit69]

Lufthansa have just announced they will stop flying over this area. I guess others will follow. Shame they didn't all do this sooner.

Sent from my C6902 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Brits had already a few days ago sent out an international recommendation and advisory that all airlines avoid that particular airspace.

The airlines obviously thought more about their economics than heeding the advice of the British.

Then this is what happens and as an instant reaction has now been globally recognised as a 'no go' zone.

"The Brits had already a few days ago sent out an international recommendation and advisory that all airlines avoid that particular airspace.

The airlines obviously thought more about their economics than heeding the advice of the British."

And the US FAA prohibited US carriers from flying in the area since last April. The Brits probably woke up when a military aircraft was shot down. Duh.

Someone posted above that Malaysia Air had to be the unluckiest airline in the world. There's something unsettling about an airline whose safety measures rely on luck or advice from the Brits. Surely someone at Malaysia Airline HQ would have wondered if flying in an area where another aircraft was just shot down was a good idea. Something tells me the check in queues at Malaysia Airlines are going to get a lot less congested very soon.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine Thursday may have been on a course for airspace that was closed to civilian aircraft by American and Ukrainian officials due to the ongoing violence in the region.

Earlier this month, Russian news agency ITAR TASS reported the Ukrainian aviation authority closed the airspace in the eastern part of the country to civilian aircraft in light of military operations in the area. The region, which sits along Ukraine's border with Russia, has been the center of fighting between Ukranian forces and pro-Russian separtists in the wake of Yanukovych's ouster. Several Ukranian jets have been shot down during the fighting including at least two on Wednesday.

http://www.businessinsider.com/warnings-about-ukrainian-airspace-prior-to-mh17-crash-2014-7

Edited July 18, 2014 by Suradit69

[Cuchulainn]

this could Finnish MH

Could also finish them.

[Shurup]

A lot of hate in this topic towards not only Russia but many other nations. Everyone needs to chill out and use your brains and not emotions.

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

[chooka]

There are two separate "Black boxes" The data logger and the Cockpit Voice Recorder. Both of which would be sent to the authority having overall ICAO responsibility for the region in which the plane crashed. This authority rests with Russia as it is the authority responsible for that area.

As Russia have been implicated in this incident then authority should be shifted from them. I am not saying that Russia has done anything wrong but it is like putting a suspect in charge of investigating themselves.

[soihok]

Yes, you two gentlemen are probably right. It's just that as a Malaysian, I am feeling emotional right now

Look, my friend... surely you can see that there there is something very wrong in your reaction. Are you upset because it's a Malaysian aircraft ? Would you not be upset and emotional if it were, say, an Indonesian or Dutch aircraft ? If the flight was a regular AMS-KUL I'm pretty sure there were lots of non-Malaysians onboard. Are you upset about them too ?

I don't want to sound harsh and I do understand that you must be shaken (air accidents are known to have a much stronger emotional impact on everyone, for all kinds of reasons) but what on earth does nationality have to do with a tragic event like this ?

Many Westerners who don't know much about the far East repeatedly say, once they've been here for a while, how shocked they are by the lack of empathy they often get to witness in Asians. They don't see the whole picture of course, and the Confucian paradigm here is extremely confusing unless you've spent a long time trying to figure it out. For example I'd say that most Asians are capable of showing extreme empathy if a member of their 'tribe' (for lack of a better word) is in trouble. But it is true, and undeniable, that they can also show a disturbing lack of empathy if the person is a 'stranger'.

All countries make sure that their citizens are brought up with a strong sense of nationalism and that, in my humble opinion, is pure evil. But it is repeatedly presented as normal and even wonderful. In truth, however, there is simply no justification for nationalism, and the only thing borders ever caused among humankind is trouble, hate, massacres and even genocides.

Steady on Yann.

Malaysians are still reeling in the shock of the apparent loss of MH370.

[maximillian]

Yes, you two gentlemen are probably right. It's just that as a Malaysian, I am feeling emotional right now

Dear Gweiloman, I am with you. As a previous airline crew member I feel very sorry for Malaysian Airlines, losing two planes within a short time.

Still we have to wait until it is absolutely clear, who shot the plane down. My humble opinion: Maybe the Ukrainian separatist by mistake, maybe the Ukrainian Army

by mistake or by purpose. It could in NO WAY have been in the interest of the Russians. My two cents only.

My sincere condolences to the families and friends of the deceased. And my deepest sympathy to all of Malaysian Airlines.

[aaacorp]

Waiting for our European members to blame this on America and start ranting as usual...

Don t worry. your useless post will help ease the rantings... Edited July 18, 2014 by aaacorp