Lawyers Council slams the 'needless' parading of criminal suspects by police

[Lite Beer]

SPECIAL REPORT
Lawyers Council slams the 'needless' parading of criminal suspects by police
Chanikarn Phumhiran,
Pathinya Iamtan
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- The parading of criminal suspects at press conferences and getting them to stage re-enactments by the police are needless as per procedural law and are a human rights violation, a senior Lawyers Council of Thailand official said.

Jessada Anujaree also said that making self-confessed murderers apologise to relatives of victims usually involved reluctant relatives.

He said re-enactments were needless because only testimony, examinations and evidence were crucial in trials for judges to acquit or convict defendants.

"Police do it to over-convince the judges to make sure that their [the suspect's] confession during the police investigation would not be altered during testimony, because it is impossible that anyone accused of a crime would apologise publicly if he or she had not committed the crime," he said.

Jessada said some suspect might have been forced to offer apologies, and frequently suspects got bashed by angry relatives or mobs.

This was a clear violation of a suspect's basic right to be protected when in police custody.

The familiar scenario was discussed widely and criticised heavily when four suspects accused of firing M79 grenades during the political unrest were ordered by police during a recent press conference to kneel before the parents of two young children killed when grenades were fired into a political rally site earlier this year.

A member of the National Human Rights Commission, Parinya Sirisarakarn, agreed that making suspects apologise to relatives of victims violated their human rights because they had not been convicted by court yet and the NHRC had continuously urged police to stop the practice.

But a senior policeman, who asked not to be named, said suspects "sometimes" initiated offers of apologies to relatives.

He said these suspects had mostly committed violent crimes against young victims and were highly remorseful.

"Making apologies will not affect verdicts or do favours in their trials, nor will it undo their criminal liability," he said.

It is believed the practice has led to wrongful convictions and imprisonment.

Among many infamous such incidents is the Sherry Ann Duncan murder case in 1986.

The five suspects were arrested and later taken to the family of the 16-year-old victim to apologise while the police earned applause for their perceived efficiency in making quick arrests.

But all fives were eventually acquitted, some posthumously, due to the flawed police investigation. One of the five accused died in custody, another one contracted pneumonia in prison and died five months after being released and another died of cancer not long afterwards.

The only survivor is barely able to walk after sustaining a spinal injury in a prison attack.

During his wrongful sentence, his wife reportedlyl died of stress, one of his daughters was raped and killed and one of his sons went missing. The case was reopened in 1995, leading to the conviction of the real murderers

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-Council-slams-the-needless-parading-of-cri-30238972.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-20

[Seastallion]

" But all fives were eventually acquitted, ..... The only survivor is barely able to walk after sustaining a spinal injury in a prison attack.

During his wrongful sentence, his wife reportedlyl died of stress, one of his daughters was raped and killed and one of his sons went missing. The case was reopened in 1995, leading to the conviction of the real murderers"

Crikey! Talk about a string of bad luck. Wrongfully imprisoned, crippled while there, lost wife and 2 children.

I just have to believe he was a bad dude anyway and that's why he was originally arrested.

[terryp]

totally agree..its the thai ghoulish side again ....sadly no one thinks of the pain the victims or family have to re-endure

[canuckamuck]

Obviously forced apologies are deeply wrong and meaningless. If someone wants to apologize that is a different thing. Although the families of victims may wish to have nothing to do with these apologies and are victimized once again to endure it.

Reenactments are strange and mostly just a PR stunt for the BIB. These are certainly a waste of time and resources, not to mention another opportunity for a forced confession or assault on a potentially innocent defendant.

We could add to the list the photos in the paper of people pointing at the accused, and having their personal information published despite the fact that their guilt has not yet been determined.

[Mango Bob]

Oh really, you lawyers just figure this out now. Amazing Thailand.

[lostsoul49]

Huh.... Thailand is danger of falling into that quagmire of political correctness.

I think the vast majority of Thai society don't agree with them, but once a country becomes pushed into a system of PC, it ends up with the majority becoming pushed around to accommodate left wing pinko minority pressure groups like this.

Absurdly... in the case below, they had to reach back almost 30 years and I really don't see what evidence it pulls up to support their case on human rights, how can re-enactments and forced apologies to relatives be any way, shape or form be responsible for what happens after a conviction?????

Surely it is the actual wrong conviction that is actually responsible for wrong imprisonment. Even then it doesn't have any affect on people getting cancer or wife dying from 'stress' which is equally absurd. Fate is fate, nothing to do with being forced to say sorry to a grieving relative.

But all fives were eventually acquitted, some posthumously, due to the flawed police investigation. One of the five accused died in custody, another one contracted pneumonia in prison and died five months after being released and another died of cancer not long afterwards.

The only survivor is barely able to walk after sustaining a spinal injury in a prison attack.

During his wrongful sentence, his wife reportedlyl died of stress, one of his daughters was raped and killed and one of his sons went missing. The case was reopened in 1995, leading to the conviction of the real murderers.

[lostsoul49]

I will add that in my own opinion.

The VAST MAJORITY of people whom this affects (probably north of 90%) are in fact thieves, rapists, terrorists and murderers.

These people are a cancer on society, and once they choose their path that they travel, they should not be considered for human rights. They don't consider the rights of their victims, so why should they have extra consideration from society?

I agree that victims and relatives should not be forced to face these criminals, but I would say that those who do not wish to is again a very small minority, and I doubt they are forced to attend. I think you will find that they are not forced.

Edited July 20, 2014 by lostsoul49

[chainarong]

The problem I have with this , is the suspects are paraded before being found guilty , there seems to be a look at me , see what I have done from the Police department, aren't I good and lets not forget that if you want democracy , which everyone seems to want , you are innocent till proven guilty, that go's for whatever offence they have been charged with, parade them by all means , after the judge has spoken, end of story.

[canuckamuck]

Huh.... Thailand is danger of falling into that quagmire of political correctness.

I think the vast majority of Thai society don't agree with them, but once a country becomes pushed into a system of PC, it ends up with the majority becoming pushed around to accommodate left wing pinko minority pressure groups like this.

Absurdly... in the case below, they had to reach back almost 30 years and I really don't see what evidence it pulls up to support their case on human rights, how can re-enactments and forced apologies to relatives be any way, shape or form be responsible for what happens after a conviction?????

Surely it is the actual wrong conviction that is actually responsible for wrong imprisonment. Even then it doesn't have any affect on people getting cancer or wife dying from 'stress' which is equally absurd. Fate is fate, nothing to do with being forced to say sorry to a grieving relative.

But all fives were eventually acquitted, some posthumously, due to the flawed police investigation. One of the five accused died in custody, another one contracted pneumonia in prison and died five months after being released and another died of cancer not long afterwards.

The only survivor is barely able to walk after sustaining a spinal injury in a prison attack.

During his wrongful sentence, his wife reportedlyl died of stress, one of his daughters was raped and killed and one of his sons went missing. The case was reopened in 1995, leading to the conviction of the real murderers.

You don't feel an apology before a trial would have any bearing on the trial? A forced apology is not far from a forced confession, which in most cases is game over for the accused.

[bkkgooner]

Huh.... Thailand is danger of falling into that quagmire of political correctness.

.

How does the right to having a fair trial have anything to do with political correctness? Unless you would like to see people who have just been arrested for a crime strung up in the village square?

These silly press conferences and re-enactments and the kneeling in front of the victims which frankly must be upsetting for the victims what purpose does it serve in your eyes? I would like to hear how you think these actions by the police help reduce crime in any way?

You speak about wrongful convictions with such innocence as well, this is Thailand how many people do you think have been set up by the police over the years?

[saakura]

" But all fives were eventually acquitted, ..... The only survivor is barely able to walk after sustaining a spinal injury in a prison attack.

During his wrongful sentence, his wife reportedlyl died of stress, one of his daughters was raped and killed and one of his sons went missing. The case was reopened in 1995, leading to the conviction of the real murderers"

Crikey! Talk about a string of bad luck. Wrongfully imprisoned, crippled while there, lost wife and 2 children.

I just have to believe he was a bad dude anyway and that's why he was originally arrested.

I dont think he was a bad guy at all. Google Sherry An Duncan and read the horror story.

[jonclark]

These people are a cancer on society, and once they choose their path that they travel, they should not be considered for human rights. They don't consider the rights of their victims, so why should they have extra consideration from society?

So who decides and when is it decided that their human rights should no long be considered? The police at the time of the arrest when guilt has not been decided, only suspicion of an offence. Or a judge after the verdict.

Once society decides to selectively revoke human rights irrespective of the crimes, you are on a slippery slope. Would those rights be given back after a sentence is completed? If so you return essentially abused people, disenfranchised from society back into society with the outcome being what? Probably more of the same.

Human rights are not something that can be given and taken away, like a bone from a dog.

Edited July 20, 2014 by jonclark

[lovetotravel]

I'll try to find the article, but it's not unusual for confessions to be obtained via physical violence here. Actually, it's quite common.

The guy who the police claim confessed to having war weapons yelled at reporters as he was being taken away that he was forced to confess. True or not, he should have proper legal representation and even here in Thailand, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Easy to complain about political correctness until you are at the wrong end of it.

[aussieinthailand]

A lot of people have been saying this needs to stop for a hell of a long time, The BIB do it for one reason only, To say to the public Look at me (us) aren't we good, while in the process justifying their job's, and prejudicing any future outcomes, and sometimes instructing innocent peoples on how to do the

(re-enactments). I wonder how long it will take for the obligatory finger pointing photo opp's to come to an end?

BIB Stop with the so-called re-enactments and photo look at me rubbish and do the job your paid to do, that would be just fine thanks.

[devolad]

Good on the Lawyers Council for speaking out against this practice. It seems that the first paragraph of every news article where a suspect has been apprehended is dedicated to ensuring all officials get to back slap each other and maximise their chance of further promotion. Less time spent posing for photos, could allow the police to focus on solving crime.

A lot of us originate from countries where there is a basic presumption of innocence until proved otherwise. Whilst this is not a perfect system and sometimes allow guilty parties to go free where evidence is not sufficiently compelling (which for victims must be devastating), it recognises that the state is an incredibly powerful well resourced foe for any person attempting to prove their innocence to come up against.

One thing I have never understood is the parading of suspects when Thailand has such strong defamation laws. I would definitely feel defamed if my mug was plastered all over national television as a suspect when I was subsequently proved innocent. Does Thailand have name suppression rules? Or is it only suspects who have admitted guilt that get their photo published?

[craigt3365]

We actually encountered a problem with this recently. A victim was forced into doing the "finger point" at the police station, pointing to an alleged perpetrator of a crime. That picture was published and the victim is now being threatened.

So it cuts both ways. Not good for the alleged criminal nor good for the victim.

[scorecard]

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I will add that in my own opinion.

The VAST MAJORITY of people whom this affects (probably north of 90%) are in fact thieves, rapists, terrorists and murderers.

These people are a cancer on society, and once they choose their path that they travel, they should not be considered for human rights. They don't consider the rights of their victims, so why should they have extra consideration from society?

I agree that victims and relatives should not be forced to face these criminals, but I would say that those who do not wish to is again a very small minority, and I doubt they are forced to attend. I think you will find that they are not forced.

In other words, because in your opinion (repeat your opinion) they are bad, therefore they are not entitled to due process which includes innocent until proven guilty.

Stand by for our outstanding well balanced ex cop from Oz to agree with you.

[scorecard]

The headline says: "BANGKOK: -- The parading of criminal suspects at press conferences and getting them to stage re-enactments by the police ....... "

So far lots of comments on re-enactments but almost none of the press conferences. In the last few days there have been several threads including as many as 30 cops in the photo op. I'm hesitant to believe every one of these 30 cops was actively and meaningfully involved in the arrests of the suspects.

Seems to me they are insecure and somehow believe having their photo in the media makes them important.

Bottom line - in most of these cases they are doing what they are paid to do - gather evidence and catch suspects.

Edited July 20, 2014 by scorecard

[lovetotravel]

The headline says: "BANGKOK: -- The parading of criminal suspects at press conferences and getting them to stage re-enactments by the police ....... "

So far lots of comments on re-enactments but almost none of the press conferences. In the last few days there have been several threads including as many as 30 cops in the photo op. I'm hesitant to believe every one of these 30 cops was actively and meaningfully involved in the arrests of the suspects.

Seems to me they are insecure and somehow believe having their photo in the media makes them important.

Bottom line - in most of these cases they are doing what they are paid to do - gather evidence and catch suspects.

I think you're giving the police too much credit. They do what they can to make money. If they don't make money off it, they are only interested in getting it off their plate and on to something more profitable.

In our village, they won't even show up unless we pay them.

[noitom]

The coercion of "alleged" perpetrators in to making a "re-enactment" of a crime without legal council is an abuse of human rights by Thai police.

[aussieinthailand]

The headline says: "BANGKOK: -- The parading of criminal suspects at press conferences and getting them to stage re-enactments by the police ....... "

So far lots of comments on re-enactments but almost none of the press conferences. In the last few days there have been several threads including as many as 30 cops in the photo op. I'm hesitant to believe every one of these 30 cops was actively and meaningfully involved in the arrests of the suspects.

Seems to me they are insecure and somehow believe having their photo in the media makes them important.

Bottom line - in most of these cases they are doing what they are paid to do - gather evidence and catch suspects.

I think you're giving the police too much credit. They do what they can to make money. If they don't make money off it, they are only interested in getting it off their plate and on to something more profitable.

In our village, they won't even show up unless we pay them.

"In our village they won't even show up unless we pay them" Please What village?

Report them, Geezz talk to the media, splash it all over internet, they'll soon get off their ass, just hide your IP address, not that difficult.

[lovetotravel]

Not unusual:

http://www.pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/134859/police-action-questioned-after-shooting-at-jomtien-tattoo-shop/

Khun Jackgrit called the Police and asked them to attend the incident but they claimed they had no one to attend and asked him to report the incident at the Dongtan Police Sub-Station on Jomtien Beach.

Khun Jackgrit attended and was given a report but was once again told that the investigation would take place at the station without anyone attending the scene of the shooting.

He is unsure who shot at his shop and claims not to be in dispute with anyone but is even more unsure as to why Police refused to conduct a full investigation into the incident.

[trainman34014]

But..but...this is the daily Police Hero's show where they show the people back home how brilliantly clever they are in solving crime. What will they do without hero worship ?

[Just1Voice]

They all want to get in on the pictures so they can show their mia noi how important they are, and how lucky she is to have such an important teerack.

[sweatalot]

The headline says: "BANGKOK: -- The parading of criminal suspects at press conferences and getting them to stage re-enactments by the police ....... "

So far lots of comments on re-enactments but almost none of the press conferences. In the last few days there have been several threads including as many as 30 cops in the photo op. I'm hesitant to believe every one of these 30 cops was actively and meaningfully involved in the arrests of the suspects.

Seems to me they are insecure and somehow believe having their photo in the media makes them important.

Bottom line - in most of these cases they are doing what they are paid to do - gather evidence and catch suspects.

I think you're giving the police too much credit. They do what they can to make money. If they don't make money off it, they are only interested in getting it off their plate and on to something more profitable.

In our village, they won't even show up unless we pay them.

"In our village, they won't even show up unless we pay them."

A job for the good general

[ramrod711]

BANGKOK: -- The parading of criminal suspects at press conferences and getting them to stage re-enactments by the police are needless as per procedural law and are a human rights violation, a senior Lawyers Council of Thailand official said.

I think they are self serving, dangerous and unnecessary. I do like the idea of Yingluck in a bulletproof vest pointing to a warehouse full of rotting rice or a half empty one for that matter. But we all know that it won't happen, because only poor people who can't afford lawyers get dragged out for these freak shows.

[klauskunkel]

Lawyers Council slams the 'needless' parading of criminal suspects by police

It's not needless, it is needed by the police. They need it to justify their budget. They need it for PR. They need it to deflect from laziness and corruption. They need it to stroke their egos. They need it to show they are the right guys for the job. Oh, boy do they ever need it...

[iReason]

Dodge City. Mob metality.

Good luck changing that... (I mean it)

[tomyummer]

I thought the parading of suspects and walk through the crime was an option for the suspects to avoid any chance of the death penalty?

[Travel2003]

Oh really, you lawyers just figure this out now. Amazing Thailand.

How do you know this is the first time they ask for this?

NHRC has tried many times already.