Hua Hin Immigration clarifies rules on foreigners carrying ID

[Tomtomtom69]

it has been the law for a long time, i carry my passport everywhere because it is the law. the last thing you need is being taken to a Thai jail. That is next. Everyone should get into the idea that Thailand is changing very fast. It is becoming more like the USA. Soon the Thai government will have real radios and computers like America and there will be no place to run or hide. If you have a warrant for your arrest they will know on the spot. If you are not here legally you go to jail. Helicopters, drones, CCTV cameras, face recognition software, advanced communication systems, license plate scanners, RFID chips, just like in America.

 

You may laugh, but closing soi cowboy and nana in bangkok and the gogo's Pattaya may be coming soon.

 

If Thailand was like the USA, or Australia (which I'd say is the most advanced country in the world when it comes to immigration matters as it was the first to eliminate visa stickers, replacing them with electronic visas) then Thailand wouldn't be stuck in the 80s demanding a physical passport but would be able to check foreigner's entitlements to stay with just a passport number and name, linked to a database. But oh no, that would be asking too much. Even though many Thais have cars, smart phones and there's the skytrain and subway now, make no mistake, Thailand is still very much a third world country. They can't even build a national motorway/expressway network across what is really not such a big country. China and Malaysia can, but Thailand produced only a third rate expressway that becomes a bumpy joke after Chonburi heading towards Pattaya and they call that a "world class" motorway. Yeah right, dream on Thailand. No wonder then, that even Laos has started swifting away from Thai contractors in favour of Chinese and even Vietnamese ones for upgrading some of their major trunk routes. The Huay Xai to Nam Tha stretch was started by a Thai company but had to be completely rebuilt by a Chinese one. Not that the Chinese are known for quality either, but at least they are starting to look like a modern country and actually want to become number 1.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[NCC1701A]

yes the military is calling the shots now, not the police. I see it all around me now. I see city counsel members, city inspectors and police being escorted by the military in Hua Hin. Many changes in Hua Hin in 60 days. the mafia police disappeared after May 22 in Hua Hin.

 

it may take awhile...

[JesseFrank]

Thats very very clear.

 

Don't hold your breath on that, because today was announced that yesterdays announcement was not correct, doesn't mean that tomorrow will not be declared that todays announcement isn't correct.

[Noi657]

So it's ok to overstay and be a foreign criminal, so long as you can pay the 2000 baht!!

[Tomtomtom69]

 

I've only ever had my work permit in my possession while at work and that's all I'll ever have. Replacing a lost WP is not nearly as complicated as replacing a lost passport. Unless immigration started going to every workplace to check if there are foreigner's working there I think I'll take the risk and not bring my passport to any future job in Thailand, except for the initial paperwork where they take a photocopy of all relevant pages anyway.

 

Besides, you would think in this day and age (2014) there would be such things as computers where immigration could check a foreigner's legal status and entitlements. But oh no, Thailand prefers to live in the 1980s (or 70s?) and use the old fashioned passport stamp as evidence, despite many countries, including some regional ones like Hong Kong completely eliminating passport stamps recently and going electronic.
 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Tywais
Removed quoted flame

[Tomtomtom69]

 

 

I don't think they are doing this for fun. So not long. In 2007 I was travelling in a bus to Isaan a couple of times and got stopped by the Army a few times while in transit. That time it looked like they were looking for illegals, didn't ask for my passport (I think I was the only farang in the bus in all of the trips). It's easy enough to see something like this being resumed in an effort to purge all overstayers and illegals from Thailand.

 

 

It does look like a clear course of action to purge undesirables:

1. Prevent people from staying indefinitely on visa exempt entries and tourist visas
2. But what's the point of doing the above if people can just overstay as much as they want for a maximum 20k fine? So the next logical move is increasing penalties for overstay.
3. But how are you actually going to catch those overstaying? By checking passports and introducing toughened address reporting requirements.

 

This will undoubtedly affect genuine tourists and law-abiding expats, so hopefully those draconian measures are temporary and will be abolished in the future. Meanwhile, prepare for a bumpy ride ahead.

 

 

Sorry but that's racial profiling and has no place in a modern society. Ever heard of the controversy in the US state of Arizona about such a proposal a couple of years back? The whole country, immigrant and non-immigrant got angry and even the national government got involved. Computers can be used - go after the foreigners whose passports show that they are out of status i.e. on overstay or similar. No need to pull over every white or black or Chinese guy just because you want to make yourself look good. I can see outraged foreigners screaming discrimination and talking to the media in their home countries, who then inform the Thai government. Same thing happened when a group of Vietnamese who were asked to show 20000 Baht in CASH and only in cash with the money in front of their faces when they were photographed at the Aranyaprathet border coming in from Cambodia a few months ago became outraged and decided to let the Tuoi Tre newspaper know about their experiences. Soon afterwards the Thai ministry of foreign affairs retracted the cash requirement stating that ATM receipts, credit cards etc. were also acceptable as proof of sufficient funds.
 

[indieke]

Listen on itself it is not a big deal. In Belgium you need your official ID on you all the time, but that is just a tiny card, that you put in your wallet. They not ask especially for an ID, except when you had an accident and driving too fast.

 

Problems to carry it in Thailand, it is big, you cant put it in your wallet.  I have an international driving licence all  ruined, by the heavy rain. And indeed loosing it, give more trouble, then you need on holiday. Then not so long ago, it was said that motorbikes-renters, should not ask for passports, to not have fake one's made from it. So carrying it, is putting yourself more on risk. If you not drive a motorbike, chances are small, someone ask for it.  But cops woul not want to enforce the law, but collect tickets.

 

So on the hole, just let us carry our copy's, the real bad guys will not be caught by this system......  And let open a post for every BM that has been asked for their passport, and under which circumstances, will help more then to cry!  At least we can see, what this mean in every day's life!

[poohy]

Calm down!!!!   just returned  home from a beer in Phrachuap  town without  carrying any passport....................................its ok!

[Tomtomtom69]

A passport is meant as a travel document to another country and not as a identification document! It could be used for that, but only for real tourists and not for foreigners living here. They should be issued an id card or something.

Needless to say that I will not going to carry my pp. Never did in the 9 years I lived here and never will!

 

You're right. I have no idea what the Thai obsession with passports is. I find it discriminatory and absurd when they should really be issuing ID cards to resident expats, which they could charge for rather than demand foreign passports, which normally don't have a lick of Thai in them (we all know that Thais aren't good at English and more than one police officer who has checked out a foreigner's passport (not mine) has had to ask someone to interpret what they are reading!)

 

The idea of a random passport inspection by police (who aren't even immigration officers) most likely basing their decisions on racial profiling (hey he looks like a foreigner, so let's see his passport!) is something out of the former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany and it scares me that Thailand has such ridiculous and racist laws on it's statute books. Note to mention that Thailand is starting to sound more like North Korea than what their name sake, land of the free implies. Why don't they stop calling Thailand the "land of the free" because clearly it's not a free country anymore (if it ever was), especially not under the present military regime. When even neighboring Myanmar started to become concerned about increasingly lower levels of personal freedoms in Thailand recently, then clearly that's a sign that things are seriously wrong in Thailand and we should all be very, very concerned! If this trend continues, Thailand will be the new Myanmar of the 21st century, while Myanmar will take over Thailand's former role of being relatively free, relatively safe and prosperous (compared to it's neighbors) like back in say I dunno 1988 when the situations were reversed?
 

[DrTuner]

Sorry but that's racial profiling and has no place in a modern society.

Thailand isn't a modern society. This is a 3rd world country.

[Tomtomtom69]

 

Sorry but that's racial profiling and has no place in a modern society.

Thailand isn't a modern society. This is a 3rd world country.

 

 

+1 best reply on this whole thread.

[Gumballl]

 

 

In every country the rule is the same but who is really going to the beach with his passport and which country is really enforcing this to a fine? How much worth a stolen passport for criminals and have you an idea of the hassles in case a tourist loses his passport? Which tourist really want to lose his passport in Thailand? I hope the police force will be flexible with this rule (as all countries are) especially regarding the fine or is this measure to extort the tourists money ? By the way is extortion not criminal offence? You, who make the rules should put yourself at the position of legit tourists and not treat them as criminals at first... We see that Big Generals are in power... What s the next measure?

 

"in every country the rule is the same"? Utter nonsense. I assume you are Thai or you would know better.

 

 

I am not Thai but can you point me a country where you can theorically circulate without a valid ID ?

 

The US.

[Moonrakers]

 

 

 

In every country the rule is the same but who is really going to the beach with his passport and which country is really enforcing this to a fine? How much worth a stolen passport for criminals and have you an idea of the hassles in case a tourist loses his passport? Which tourist really want to lose his passport in Thailand? I hope the police force will be flexible with this rule (as all countries are) especially regarding the fine or is this measure to extort the tourists money ? By the way is extortion not criminal offence? You, who make the rules should put yourself at the position of legit tourists and not treat them as criminals at first... We see that Big Generals are in power... What s the next measure?

 

"in every country the rule is the same"? Utter nonsense. I assume you are Thai or you would know better.

 

 

I am not Thai but can you point me a country where you can theorically circulate without a valid ID ?

 

The US.

 

And the UK.

I've also been to a handful of European countries and was never told I had to have ID. Nor in Malaysia, Laos, Singapore or Cambodia. It's possible that I missed such a rule in one or two of those countries though. 

[IAMSOBAD]

Thailand goes one step forward and three steps back when dealing with issues of farang. Just sell us an I.D. card...case closed.

[IAMSOBAD]

Flood TAT and travel websites with farang complaints and viola...rule changed.

[hoopmonk]

I doubt there will be an explosion in local theft, yet with the increased number of passports on the streets will undoubtedly lead to an increase in random lost and stolen passports.  This must be good news for local international crime rings, since one of the tools they require are passports.  On the other hand, for tourists losing a passport, replacements are issued within days.  In smaller terms, the inconvenience is not much of an issue.  The policy of checking passports at check points will police against the random overstay, but unless a passport is required when paying the ticket - B2000 will be your getaway ticket.  

[paz]

 

 

 

 

 

I am not Thai but can you point me a country where you can theorically circulate without a valid ID ?

 

The US.

 

And the UK.

 

And Italy. Not for citizens, not for foreigners.

[wellred]

I doubt there will be an explosion in local theft, yet with the increased number of passports on the streets will undoubtedly lead to an increase in random lost and stolen passports.  This must be good news for local international crime rings, since one of the tools they require are passports.  On the other hand, for tourists losing a passport, replacements are issued within days.  In smaller terms, the inconvenience is not much of an issue.  The policy of checking passports at check points will police against the random overstay, but unless a passport is required when paying the ticket - B2000 will be your getaway ticket.  

Can you expand more on what the process is for me as a uk citizen if I lose my passport in Thailand? I suppose I need to be aware of that now in light of the new rules.

[John1thru10]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not Thai but can you point me a country where you can theorically circulate without a valid ID ?

 

The US.

 

And the UK.

 

And Italy. Not for citizens, not for foreigners.

 

 

The entire, 25 country region of the EU.  By rail or car (flights always different of course).  They ask to see a passport when originally purchasing a rail ticket, or another form of ID if that's what you have.  But, it's only to see that your name matches your ticket, and no examination of your visa status.  After that point, you almost forget you might theoretically be asked en route somewhere - it very occassionally happens that police will board a train and ask to see.  But so rarely that you'd be very surprised (and usually in an area like Amsterdam, where there is a lot of drug smuggling by rail).  For myself, a decade of traveling all over EU countries, and never asked once.

 

The same goes for overstay punishments in EU.  There is technically a law on the books that you 'could' be fined in some cases, or banned from EU.  But, even with very long overstays (if you are polite and have an interesting reason for being there, and are America, UK especially), then any kind of fine or ban is so rare, it's basically just a theory they could pull out if they suspect to be a true criminal (and not 'criminal' as in overstaying is illegal - like real drug crimes, etc).
 

Edited July 30, 2014 by John1thru10

[horsewell]

Getting a new passport cost about 5 times the fine for me. In order to extend my visa requires me to not have my passport while it's being processed by the various organisations. That seems to be the usual way things are done. I hope that if they enforce the law then they also should enforce harsh penalties for anyone, except for police, immigration officers or other powers that be, in possession of passports of foreigners (555+). I've known about this rule for a while, never seen the actual law but read it a few times, but it seems a little short sighted. I can understand it being with you when you travel but when you are day tripping or just within a few km from your hotel / residence you should be able to leave it in your room. If the powers that be need it you should be able to produce it, if you are a flight risk then they can send an officer with you to collect it.

 

It's just insane having it on your person at all times. It's not even your passport. As far as I know it's the property of your government. It should spark an international incident to have one passport stolen or somehow seized illegally (555+).

 

You could just see this going the way of Rf chips in the arms of all aliens in the country to tracking purposes. Would be easier, I've got nothing to hide but I still wouldn't want it. They could track me via my mobile phone... if you use the same number for more than a few days at a time (and I've had a number for over 7 years registered in my name). Not to mention 90 day reports and yearly extensions. Visits to hospital and doctors, bank accounts, my residence reporting my address... They probably have more information on me than Hoover had on JFK.

 

It's the people that they don't have information on that are the people that they should be looking for and I'm sure there is a number. There are people that have overstays for decades and it's only when they get sick, accident or really need to leave the country when they are found out, they appear in these pages every now and then.

[smedly]

since I went out hours ago I have come back and read the first 7 replies to this topic and have decided to delete the other 100 and unsubscribe because it is full of garbage

 

either carry your passport when out or at least have access to it when required to show it

 

 

Those currently on overstay and living here illegally - you have had your chance to go home or sort it out - if you don't do either you are going to be hunted and I say "serves you right" your life is about to change - you will be caught or you will have a miserable existence trying to avoid it 

[John1thru10]

is this an existing law ... or is this a new or altered law?
as far as i know, everything has to go through the interior ministry before something new can be applied.

also, no thai embassy in any foreign country has updated their websites about this "no passport fine".

how come that nobody besides that pol.col. seems to know about this?

 

You are forgetting, that we are under martial law.  That means, the military can do anything it wants without approval.  That is the literal definition of martial law, not an opinion about it.

[paz]

 

You are forgetting, that we are under martial law.  That means, the military can do anything it wants without approval.  That is the literal definition of martial law, not an opinion about it.

 

It is not exactly like that, however the officer that "clarified" the rules is not a military, and has not made any reference to martial law.
Then if there was an incentive from the military, anyone can imagine that. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by paz

[John1thru10]

Since they take a picture of people at the airport, when they enter the country and also report when they leave, then it must be pretty simple to know who is overstaying and who is not.

 

So why not just post the overstayers on an internet page for us all to report on, when we see one of these "horrible criminals"? Maybe they could even give a cash reward or reward people in "bar-fines"... Report an overstayer and you get 2 free bar-fines!

 

Problem solved!

 

 

 

Since prostitution and sex tourism are actually illegal, and everyone has cameras, then it must be pretty simple to know who is a sex tourist and who is not.

 

So why not just post the sex tourists on an internet page to the newspapers in their home countries, when we see one of these "pathetic abusers"?  Maybe they could even give a cash reward or reward people in "visas"....Report a sex tourist and you get 2 free months!

 

Problem solved!

Edited July 30, 2014 by John1thru10

[John1thru10]

You know, just to point it out to everyone...

 

It says 2,000 baht fine for not having it on you.  It doesn't actually say 'and then just walk away no questions asked'.

Edited July 30, 2014 by John1thru10

[John1thru10]

 

 

I just do not understand the complaints re carry ur passport.

I carried my original passport from USA to and around in Nepal, five times.

to Tibet twice, once overland.

to Bhutan three times.

to India six times with one one-month continuous stay.

to VN, Lao, Cambodia, Singapore, Manila, Japan, parts of EU including the Cannes Film Festival three times.

 

My travel included air, bus, long distant taxi (in India! + elsewhere), taxi, tuk tuk, yak, and horse ... all alone.

There are other activities where my belongings were able to be stolen including swimming and beach trips.

 

I have never lost my passport.   All that travel alone over a 20 yr period and still have them, past and current.

 

Why?  How can that be ?

 

I don't get drunk, do not do dope, and watch the company I keep.  I carry passport in a neck pouch or that in a sealed plastic bag.  I could lose it tomorrow, especially after I have written this, but that is a pretty good record.

 

What is your problem?

 

My problem is I get drunk quite often and spend time with 'company' in bars in Bangkok and Pattaya (I don't dope though).   My passport will be staying at home.
 

 

 

I am thinking about what the bargirls will say, when they see us all naked with our passport in a plastic bag strapped around our neck. Really sexy

 

 

Let's put it this way...it probably won't make you less attractive than you already are in their eyes.
 

[netbuilder]

Loss and theft are concerns of course. But frankly for me as a resident DAMAGE is the more likely problem. My passport is good for 10 years. I lock it in my safe except for the rare occasions I need it for some business (or travel of course). Now if I really did carry it everywhere for years, it would be highly likely that it would be worn down and DAMAGED to the point of unusability.
 
Think about it. Thailand is a hot and humid country. There is a lot of RAIN.
 
Maybe easier for women who carry purses and such ... but then your loss/theft risk goes up. Seriously, this isn't for real. It's a way to criminalize ALL of us. Not to bother all of us but to have the power at all times.

Solution: carry a purse... Ladyboys are doing it, why wouldn't you do the same?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[MyFriend You]

This is worse than what was reported yesterday. Not at all convenient to be carrying your original passport with you everywhere.

Can ThaiVisa check about the requirements for other major cities?

C'Mon how many ex-pats do you see without a belly pack??   enough room for your passport and everything else we carry around - I still have a US Embassy Stamped copy of my passport, have had to show it several times, never a problem - but if this rule is Country wide, I'll carry my Passport, just like my Insurance card, drivers license, and a few Baht as well................

[John1thru10]

 

This is what is called the law of unintended consequences;  because of the coup any little petty dictator will come up with draconian rules because they can 

 

Nothing like no accountability to bring out the worst in bureaucrats 

This was actually started before the coup, but seems to have been amplified by it.

 

The irony of it is, it started because of foreigners working illegally in f.ex. tour agencies, the Thais complaining about farangs stealing their jobs. Well, now that the crackdown is starting to spill over to issues which may cause tourists to get concerned enough to change destination, it's those same Thais that are going to be losing the revenue.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

...

Edited July 30, 2014 by John1thru10

[lapd]

This is nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.  It's always been a requirement for a lot of countries to require foreign visitors to carry their actual passport with them and not just a photocopy.  I don't think this is anything new in Thailand either.  It's generally not enforced is all and if they ask, usually a photocopy is good enough until you can go and get your original and show them.  Again, the way the laws are written you are supposed to have your original is my understanding.  So again nothing to get all excited about.

 

If they are going to make a bigger deal about it now about the worst I could see are shakedowns on the street like they do for not wearing a helmet

Edited July 30, 2014 by lapd