Will Myanmar eventually switch back to right hand drive like American Samoa did?

[badshah]

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And their presence is far greater than that of China.

china is hugely influential in countries like Burma, they ofer all sots of aid - civil engineering projects etc in order to access raw materials etc from under-developed countries.

It doesn't stop China from producing RHD vehicles in Pakistan, so if they can do it for them, then surely they can do it for Burma once it switches back to the left.

[wilcopops]

As i said before, any country ca produce LHD or RHD cars, it's the CURRENT predominance of RHD vehicles accompanied by the stocks of RHD cars in adjoining countries that make the change so desirable....otherwise Myanmar will have to start it's inevitable association with the automobile from scratch all over again.

[onthemoon]

Plus let's be real, LHD imports will never be anywhere near as cheap and reliable as RHD imports from Japan

all car companies (except in the US) make LHD and RHD versions of most models.........so no real problem there, I think it is the current stock and the neighbouring countries stocks that are of more significance.

Thailand produces both RHD and LHD versions of many models. Remember, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam are also LHD countries that receive cars from Thailand.

[onthemoon]

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Plus let's be real, LHD imports will never be anywhere near as cheap and reliable as RHD imports from Japan

all car companies (except in the US) make LHD and RHD versions of most models.........so no real problem there, I think it is the current stock and the neighbouring countries stocks that are of more significance.

True that, but the vehicles from Japan are a lot cheaper than the imports from the US and Europe though. A LOT cheaper.

Japanese, European and US cars are made in Thailand. The price difference has to do with branding rather than country of origin.

[onthemoon]

it seems that 90% of vehicles in Thailand are RHD. Neighbouring countries build cars, but the native cars are RHD - this means there is a readily available stock of new AND secondhand RHD cars in India, Thailand, Indonesia ands Malaysia....the rest is up to Myanmar to set up importation regulations.

i would suggest that as the number of privately owned vehicles is at present relatively low, and with the economy on the up, it would make sense to allow import of both new and second hand cars to support a burgeoning market.

Suddenly insisting that these vehicles should be LHD gives the advantage to the Chinese market and could impact on the Thai and other ASEAN motor industries.

it would also render the majority of vehicles in Myanmar obsolete.....which for a country with limited funds, seems a bit impractical.

I would even wager that the percentage of RHD cars in Thailand is closer to 100%. There is a new fashion for supercars to be LHD, but that's just a stupid current marketing fad.

And yes, new cars in Myanmar should be LHD. But that does not give any advantage to the Chinese brands, as Thailand produces both LHD and RHD cars. The advantage of the Chinese brands is the retail price.

[wilcopops]

Virtually any car can be or is produced in LHD or RHD versions, however whereas the Thai Malaysian and Indonesian industries are already producing RHD in quantity and in most some cases in majority, the opposite is the case for China, (they do supply Uk with some RHD cars) but they would require less changes on the production lines to supply LHD vehicles if Myanmar so decided.

However as most of the stock in Myanmar appears to be secondhand, and there is already a large industry importing secondhand RHD cars from Thailand, one would think that a switch to LHD would lead these dealers to switch to China to source their product.

[badshah]

^Well the quality of second-hand Japanese cars is far far far superior to brand new Chinese vehicles so the dealers aren't going to be keen on stocking Chinese vehicles when Japanese ones are cheaper and superior in quality.

It's the same reason why Russians in the Far East cities prefer JDM vehicles vs Russian-built Japanese vehicles. Even they know better.

[wilcopops]

^Well the quality of second-hand Japanese cars is far far far superior to brand new Chinese vehicles so the dealers aren't going to be keen on stocking Chinese vehicles when Japanese ones are cheaper and superior in quality.

It's the same reason why Russians in the Far East cities prefer JDM vehicles vs Russian-built Japanese vehicles. Even they know better.

That may be, but Myanmar is not a open market and will certainly be swayed by factors such as cost. The Chinese have an ability to inveigle their way into developing countries with various offers of aid and to flood such a small market with cheap cars would present no problems..

[onthemoon]

If Myanmar changes back to RHD (but I don't think it will), many factories will produce them to satisfy the market. It is a moot discussion whether more LHD or RHD cars are produced at the moment.

[wilcopops]

ERRATUM - "90% of cars in Thailand" should read "90% cars in Myanmar"

[HaleySabai]

why you think about L HD or RHD ??? None of you will drive a car in Myanmar, because for foreighners its still forbidden to drive a car in that country!!!!!!!

Just in Mandalay last week and saw a 'whitey' with his wife pass us by in his SUV...we were on a 2-seat trishaw cycle choking and gasping from the squaller of shit-pile humanity around us.

The right-side driving with RHD vehicles...passengers enter and exit right into on coming traffic,only compliments the utter stupidity of the country in general.

[wilcopops]

Think about the cost implications of changing all the road signs over.

Have a Nice Day.

Many of the old ones - including traffic lights are still there!

[wilcopops]

why you think about L HD or RHD ??? None of you will drive a car in Myanmar, because for foreighners its still forbidden to drive a car in that country!!!!!!!

you don't seem to understand the situation.

it would seem most probable that the situation in Myanmar is going to have to change as regards foreign traffic.

It also seems likely that car ownership will increase exponentially over the next decade.

To this ends it would seem logical to prepare for this and reverting to driving on the left seems in my view the most natural approach.

[Tomtomtom69]

why you think about L HD or RHD ??? None of you will drive a car in Myanmar, because for foreighners its still forbidden to drive a car in that country!!!!!!!

you don't seem to understand the situation.

it would seem most probable that the situation in Myanmar is going to have to change as regards foreign traffic.

It also seems likely that car ownership will increase exponentially over the next decade.

To this ends it would seem logical to prepare for this and reverting to driving on the left seems in my view the most natural approach.

That statement from Diaspora is garbage. Absolutely incorrect.

The laws are as follows (though not necessarily enforced but this is the reality):

Foreigners from Thailand and third countries are allowed to drive Thai registered cars and motorcycles, as well as third country registered vehicles into Myanmar at Tachilek and use them in the vicinity of the border for up to 2-4 weeks at a time, depending on their permission to stay. No need to worry about driver's licences as they don't care; any Thai or foreign licence will do.

Thais and foreigners from third countries can drive a Thai car into Myanmar at Myawady but only during the day and probably only on a visa free 1-day visit. In reality it's mostly Thai traders that bother to drive in at all, but in theory permission should be given to anyone who doesn't mind paying about 600 Baht and being restricted to within about 12-15 km from the border and must go back to Thailand the same day.

Foreigners may drive a car into Myanmar and go anywhere that is mentioned on their itinerary if they go on a pre-arranged tour. Typically such tours enter the country either at Myawady (opposite Mae Sot) or Htee Khee (opposite Phu Nam Ron) due to the relative proximity of these entry points to the main Myanmar transport infrastructure and tourist attractions (such as Dawei, Hpa-an, Golden Rock, Mawlamyine (Moulmein), Yangon etc.) however, occasionally some foreigners enter at Kawthoung (opposite Ranong). Tachilek to the Chinese border at Mong La used to be doable without any advance notice but due to complaints by Myanmar transport operators nowadays Thai and other foreign registered vehicles are restricted to the border area unless they have permission to go further (although apparently some people have managed to sneak past checkpoints). Tachilek to Mandalay, Inle Lake etc. is more difficult to get permission for, whether you have a vehicle or not due to the restrictions on the only east-west link road, between Kengtung and Taunggyi, which is normally forbidden to use. However, this permission is subject to change in the not to distant future.

In all other cases foreigners can drive Burmese registered vehicles if they are in possession of a Burmese driver's licence. Motorcycles are rented out to tourists in many places like Hpa-an and Mandalay, motorcycle licences are not requested and any regulations regarding the legality of doing so are ignored.

There has been talk of opening up the country to unrestricted foreign motoring, meaning foreign registered vehicles from any country, but most likely Indian, Thai and Chinese vehicles will be allowed to travel throughout Myanmar by themselves (except any restricted areas) and transit the country and enter a third country, such as Thailand to China or vice versa, or Thailand to India or vice versa.

I would expect this to be allowed by the time of implementation of AEC 2015, but we'll see.

[Tomtomtom69]

^No kidding, I wouldn't even want to own an exotic in London to begin with.

And another article showing Japanese car makers being legitimately concerned:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/06/national/japanese-cars-face-fight-in-myanmar/

Another headache for Japanese automakers is a possible move discussed in some quarters about limiting imports to left-hand drive models in the country where cars run on the right side of the road. Government officials are apparently concerned about the increase in accidents after Japanese cars, in which the steering wheel is on the right, started flooding the market.

Masaki Takahara, head of the Yangon office of the Japan External Trade Organization, a trade promotion arm of the Japanese government, said, “Japanese cars will likely lose their market share due in part to intensifying competition. Enhancing after-sale services, not just marketing, will be the key to the future.”

Gee if they are concerned about accidents, how about oh I don't know, changing it back to the left side traffic for once?

Nah that claim from that article is garbage. Like in any other developing country, accidents happen due to unsafe roads, bad driving practices and poor, if not non-existent enforcement of traffic laws and no incentive for change. What side the steering wheel is on has very little to do with safety, if you are an otherwise good and safe driver and you follow the laws. All you need to do is leave more space from the vehicle in front of you and lean a little into the passenger seat, it's really not that difficult. However, this doesn't even apply whenever you have more than one lane going in each direction.

In any case, RHD vehicles were always used in Myanmar and while there have been more coming in in recent times, it's nonsense to suggest something like "RHD vehicles from Japan have started to flood the market" when they have always been there, ever since the country changed from driving on the left to the right and even before.

While it is clearly favourable to have your steering wheel on the opposite side of the vehicle to which you are driving on for better visibility in case of overtaking/passing, in Myanmar some 90% of vehicles have their steering wheels on the right, yet they also drive on the right so drivers are used to this arrangement already. However, due to the generally low volume of vehicles and for a developing country some of their roads aren't even that bad and could be worse, their accident rate seems to be lower than in Thailand, India and China, not to mention Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

[Tomtomtom69]

it seems that 90% of vehicles in Thailand are RHD. Neighbouring countries build cars, but the native cars are RHD - this means there is a readily available stock of new AND secondhand RHD cars in India, Thailand, Indonesia ands Malaysia....the rest is up to Myanmar to set up importation regulations.

i would suggest that as the number of privately owned vehicles is at present relatively low, and with the economy on the up, it would make sense to allow import of both new and second hand cars to support a burgeoning market.

Suddenly insisting that these vehicles should be LHD gives the advantage to the Chinese market and could impact on the Thai and other ASEAN motor industries.

it would also render the majority of vehicles in Myanmar obsolete.....which for a country with limited funds, seems a bit impractical.

I would even wager that the percentage of RHD cars in Thailand is closer to 100%. There is a new fashion for supercars to be LHD, but that's just a stupid current marketing fad.

And yes, new cars in Myanmar should be LHD. But that does not give any advantage to the Chinese brands, as Thailand produces both LHD and RHD cars. The advantage of the Chinese brands is the retail price.

I agree that neither supercars or any other type of vehicle on Thai roads, registered for Thai use should be allowed to be LHD. What I don't understand is why neighboring countries like Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos ban local registration of RHD vehicles on their roads (although in Laos you will see the odd Lao registered RHD vehicle and foreign embassy vehicles are exempt from these laws and in Cambodia the law is mostly ignored and RHD vehicles are still very common, especially in western Cambodia) and yet Thailand doesn't ban local registration of LHD vehicles? Something doesn't make sense here...you would think they would do it from both a safety perspective (although I don't think driving with the steering wheel on the wrong side is much more dangerous, it's just more of a nuisance) and to protect the local industry. Of course in reality, very, very few Thai registered vehicles are LHD, but I think none should be. After all, how many RHD vehicles do you see in the USA?

Driving a LHD vehicle into Thailand for temporary use of course is a very different story and should continue to be allowed (well obviously!) since trade and transport, not to mention individual tourism related trips would grind to a halt and be greatly complicated by any ruling that would prevent such trips. Hundreds, if not thousands of Lao vehicles cross the border into Thailand daily, as do a few dozen Cambodian ones and the occasional Chinese or other foreign registered LHD vehicle for the purposes of tourism, and thousands of Thai RHD vehicles also cross over into these countries (mainly Laos and Cambodia) as well as left hand driving Malaysia daily.

In regards to Myanmar, I'd like to see them driving on the left again as they should. However, if they decide, for cost reasons to stay on the right OK but since they are in transition and the country is poor, I wouldn't want to see a ruling where RHD would be banned. Of course, such a law would not apply to foreign registered vehicles being temporarily driven in the country and like in Cambodia, where the law has been in place since 2001 to prevent smuggling from Thailand it is widely ignored and not enforced, I would expect Myanmar to also ignore any similar law that may be enacted in the future.

[Naam]

In regards to Myanmar, I'd like to see them driving on the left again as they should.

please give me one valid reason why some expat residents of Thailand think they have the right to lecture a sovereign neighbouring state whether its traffic should run on the right (nomen est omen) or the wrong side of streets and roads

[Tomtomtom69]

In regards to Myanmar, I'd like to see them driving on the left again as they should.

please give me one valid reason why some expat residents of Thailand think they have the right to lecture a sovereign neighbouring state whether its traffic should run on the right (nomen est omen) or the wrong side of streets and roads

Well maybe because Myanmar currently runs on the WRONG side of the road. That's because of a stupid decision by the crazy dictator Ne Win, which took place in 1970. The change from left to right was pointless, stupid and should never have occurred.

Therefore the country could right one wrong by changing back to driving on the left, where it's supposed to.

It would also make driving a Thai car into the country in the near future, once they allow more independent travel by self-driven private car, easier.

[Naam]

In regards to Myanmar, I'd like to see them driving on the left again as they should.

please give me one valid reason why some expat residents of Thailand think they have the right to lecture a sovereign neighbouring state whether its traffic should run on the right (nomen est omen) or the wrong side of streets and roads

Well maybe because Myanmar currently runs on the WRONG side of the road. That's because of a stupid decision by the crazy dictator Ne Win, which took place in 1970. The change from left to right was pointless, stupid and should never have occurred.

Therefore the country could right one wrong by changing back to driving on the left, where it's supposed to.

It would also make driving a Thai car into the country in the near future, once they allow more independent travel by self-driven private car, easier.

interesting! so you think one can change one wrong to right by changing from right to wrong?

[LivinginKata]

Inflammatory post and the reply removed.

Please read this forum rule 7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming)

[Tomtomtom69]

In regards to Myanmar, I'd like to see them driving on the left again as they should.

please give me one valid reason why some expat residents of Thailand think they have the right to lecture a sovereign neighbouring state whether its traffic should run on the right (nomen est omen) or the wrong side of streets and roads

Well maybe because Myanmar currently runs on the WRONG side of the road. That's because of a stupid decision by the crazy dictator Ne Win, which took place in 1970. The change from left to right was pointless, stupid and should never have occurred.

Therefore the country could right one wrong by changing back to driving on the left, where it's supposed to.

It would also make driving a Thai car into the country in the near future, once they allow more independent travel by self-driven private car, easier.

interesting! so you think one can change one wrong to right by changing from right to wrong?

Please stop with the driving on the right bias just because you are American. Yes, I am definitely more biased towards driving on the left, in part because only around 30% of the world currently drives on the left, with 70% driving on the right, but that's not what this discussion is about. And also, if you think driving on the left is wrong, look where you are - Thailand also drives on the left and will never change. Maybe you should move to Laos or Cambodia, both of which drive on the "right" side of the road.

However, my feelings in relation to Myanmar have little to do with this. If Myanmar always drove on the right, then there would be no discussion and I think we could all accept that the country shouldn't, or won't change, just like Laos and Cambodia, both of which drive on the right and always have.

But the fact that there was no logical reason for change in Myanmar, particularly since in this region, changing sides of the road to conform to what side of the road your neighbor drives on has never been done. This is in part because it's always been relatively difficult for vehicles to cross borders in this region...it's simply not what it is in Europe or even Africa, where I'm told it's a lot more straightforward to drive between countries than here in South-East Asia, where you only have a few individual agreements between some neighboring countries but not others.

Also, back in 1970 Myanmar was a closed country and thus there was no cross-border vehicular traffic going to/from Myanmar back then - absolutely none. Of course there were also very few vehicles too, which is another reason, but nowadays in Myanmar you have the strange situation where 90% of the vehicles in the country are still RHD, which is contrary to the norms for a country that now drives on the right some 45 years later. Contrast that to Nigeria, which also drove on the left once, but in order to conform to it's neighbors switched to the right around the same time as Myanmar did, I believe 2 years later, and now is virtually all LHD.

Myanmar doesn't have that much infrastructure to convert and not that many vehicles yet, hence it could do it, if it decided to do so rather soon. A few years ago I read that there were just 7 vehicles (excluding 2 wheelers such as motorcycles) for every 1000 persons in Myanmar, one of the lowest in the world. Compare that to the 13 per 1000 for Vietnam, a country known for having very few cars and around 21 per 1000 for Laos and I think it was 24 per 1000 for Cambodia. Those figures were from a report published just a few years ago (2007 or 2008 figures were used I think), so now I'd expect something like 10/1000 for Myanmar, 15/1000 for Vietnam, 30-40/1000 for both Laos and Cambodia. But for Myanmar the numbers are still low enough and with mostly RHD vehicles it wouldn't be as big a challenge for them to change back, given these facts and their previous experience, compared to the challenges every other country in the region would have.

However, having said that, due to the high cost of conversion and other priorities, I am doubtful that Myanmar will switch back. Although if it wants to see an example of a country that just recently made a similar switch (from right to left), then Samoa is that country. They switched back in 2007 I think it was, the first country to do so in many years and unlike Myanmar, they never previously drove on the left.

[Naam]

Please stop with the driving on the right bias just because you are American.

please stop assuming out of thin air that i am an American.

for the record: i am a "Central European" who holds citizenships from two European countries located in the heart of Europe where people drive on the right side and abhor driving on the wrong side. of course us "righteous" ones obey prevailing traffic laws and drive on the wrong side when on obscure islands or in countries which are not yet fully affiliated with logic and civilisation.

peace brother, may the force be with you!

[wilcopops]

Myanmar is in ASEAN and the majority of cars in ASEAN are RHD, so why why not go WITH the flow rather than against it when the opportunity presents?

I'd hardly regard two of the largest economies in the world as insignificant islands.

BTW Naam I thought you believed this discussion a waste of time?

[Tomtomtom69]

Please stop with the driving on the right bias just because you are American.

please stop assuming out of thin air that i am an American.

for the record: i am a "Central European" who holds citizenships from two European countries located in the heart of Europe where people drive on the right side and abhor driving on the wrong side. of course us "righteous" ones obey prevailing traffic laws and drive on the wrong side when on obscure islands or in countries which are not yet fully affiliated with logic and civilisation.

peace brother, may the force be with you! L-dog.jpg

Didn't know the Swiss and Austrians were so fiercely anti-drive on the left. Anyway, driving on the right with a LHD car is actually less desirable than the opposite. For starters, since most of us are right-handed (and this is a worldwide phenomenon), if the car you are driving is a manual, you'll have a pretty sore left hand from holding onto the steering wheel with your left hand and shifting gears with your right hand, particularly after a long drive. Also, our line of sight is slightly off to the right, hence driving on the left with a RHD vehicle is a more natural position to be driving on.

BTW not all Swiss think like you do regarding driving on the right - I too have Swiss blood.

[Tomtomtom69]

Myanmar is in ASEAN and the majority of cars in ASEAN are RHD, so why why not go WITH the flow rather than against it when the opportunity presents?

I'd hardly regard two of the largest economies in the world as insignificant islands.

BTW Naam I thought you believed this discussion a waste of time?

That's a good point - with India and Thailand, both RHD markets on Myanmar's doorstep and additionally Malaysia and Indonesia also RHD markets, producing a large and increasing number of motor vehicles, it only seems logical for Myanmar to follow the majority.

I'd even advocate for Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam to switch to the left, but don't think that would easily happen.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[wilcopops]

Having spent most of my life driving on all possible combinations of RHD and LHD on both right side and left side roads I'm convinced that there isn't a huge problem in going from one to another...however Myanmar is a glaring exception.... The older roads and towns are already laid out for driving on the left, even some signs and signals still remain, the majority of existing vehicles (90%) are already RHD the original switch was not planned but a spur of the moment decision by a neurotically superstitious dictator...the country is clearly driving on the WRONG side at present and needs to switch.

[wilcopops]

Please stop with the driving on the right bias just because you are American.

please stop assuming out of thin air that i am an American.

for the record: i am a "Central European" who holds citizenships from two European countries located in the heart of Europe where people drive on the right side and abhor driving on the wrong side. of course us "righteous" ones obey prevailing traffic laws and drive on the wrong side when on obscure islands or in countries which are not yet fully affiliated with logic and civilisation.

peace brother, may the force be with you! L-dog.jpg

Didn't know the Swiss and Austrians were so fiercely anti-drive on the left. Anyway, driving on the right with a LHD car is actually less desirable than the opposite. For starters, since most of us are right-handed (and this is a worldwide phenomenon), if the car you are driving is a manual, you'll have a pretty sore left hand from holding onto the steering wheel with your left hand and shifting gears with your right hand, particularly after a long drive. Also, our line of sight is slightly off to the right, hence driving on the left with a RHD vehicle is a more natural position to be driving on.

BTW not all Swiss think like you do regarding driving on the right - I too have Swiss blood.

Switzerland of course used to be famous for it's RHD vehicles that used to negotiate the mountain roads....

Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Hungary continued to drive on the left until Hitler told them not to, as did most of

Austria....

[Naam]

Myanmar is in ASEAN and the majority of cars in ASEAN are RHD, so why why not go WITH the flow rather than against it when the opportunity presents?

I'd hardly regard two of the largest economies in the world as insignificant islands.

BTW Naam I thought you believed this discussion a waste of time?

let's look at some facts because now the discussion has become interesting:

-ASEAN is till now a rather loose agreement, nothing but some kind of Letter of Intent signed by 10 countries, where big blah-blah is stated and once in while updated since more than a decade but less than 5% has been implemented. 12 different languages are spoken and 9 countries have their own script. so much for "flow".

-once in a while two member countries shoot at each other and kill a dozen or so soldiers as well as civilians over a ridiculous issue (Preah Vihear temple) which could be easily solved.

-with one or two exceptions ASEAN members rank very high as far as corruption is concerned. in this respect "flow" exists indeed.

as far as "insignificant islands" are concerned please take Klingon sarcasm into consideration when rendering judgment.

[wilcopops]

BTW, it seems that some commentators on island economies might need a little better perspective..... Japan has the 3rd largest and UK the 6th. 3 of the top 6 are in the EU.

[LivinginKata]

3 off topic posts have been removed.