CBR300 Vs Ninja 250SL.

[Deacon Bell]

A comparison thread for those considering either bike.

I am.

The 250sl looks better imo.

The CBR300 is deceptive by name, really only 286cc.

Price point, the Kawasaki is the winner at 121k (fared), 118k (naked). CBR at around 140k (fared) and 130k (naked)

Weight, claimed weight has the Kawa as lower, and has them as about equal when it come to the power to weight ratio.

I think many would rather deal with a large Kawa shop than a local Honda one, but it depends on one's location.

Quality, up for debate. There's been criticism of the Honda 250, which the 286 is based on. Really the 250 version with an increase in bore and stroke.

Which one would you buy, and why?

Edited September 3, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[dave_boo]

Coming out and saying "This is the one I would buy" is a bit hard. I am more a fan of the organic look rather than the sharp edged Transformer look that so many bikes seem to be going to. But honestly...a bike is for riding and I don't spend time admiring it but rather scanning the road trying to stay alive. I am also not so shallow as to worry what others think of me while I enjoy a bike.

What's in a name? The "CBR" isn't really a CBR...the "Ninja" isn't really a Ninja...

Price is a huge factor to me. The Ninja comes out quite a bit ahead. But that's just psychological as my GPS costs 150-200% of the price difference between the 2 lines.

I agree about the Kawasaki dealers though; in fact in Nakhon Sawan that is where I buy my Motul chain lube. I find it priceless to roll up on a Honda.

[ll2]

well, Honda has better brakes, bigger and tubeless tires, better dimensions, more grunt. this explains the 10 k thb higher price of honda

and design wise, i prefer hondas handsome and mature designs.

kawa has lower weight which is great but only 10 kg less than Honda.

Honda is also a bit bigger on both wheelbase and dimensions so more suitable for farang IMO.

and Honda is amde in Thailand and kawasaki in Indonesia. I prefer Thai made bikes, more experience and international recognition on bikes build in Thailand.

besides, honda never claims it is bike as 300 cc or they dont brand it as honda cbr300cc r so...

Bit, green kawa z naked looks great somehow and most probably, kawa wil offer better handling.

Both bikes are looking and sounding good value for their cc level. One cannot go wrong with one of these bikes at the end.

Edited September 3, 2014 by ll2

[Deacon Bell]

honda never claims it is bike as 300 cc

That's incorrect.

Honda promotional video.

"New Engine Power 300cc PGM-FI"

1:46 into the video.

[guzzi850m2]

Go and have a look at them and sit on them, then you should get an idea which you like best.

If possible test ride them then you can get the fell of them, how they ride, brake and so on.

Waste of time to get into discussions about price/weight/hp and how many cc they have or does it matter to you what others think?

I don't think Honda's are better quality wise than Kawasaki, it's about the same man.

[Deacon Bell]

I don't think Honda's are better quality wise than Kawasaki, it's about the same man.

Going on the recent platforms available locally, I think all acknowledge Kawasaki as being far better quality wise.

The 250sl is a new platform, which I don't think has been tested in another bike, unless they've taken it from the KLX!

The CBR comes from the CBR250 which has been reportedly less reliable compared to the Kawasaki small motorcycles.

[dave_boo]

I don't think Honda's are better quality wise than Kawasaki, it's about the same man.

Going on the recent platforms available locally, I think all acknowledge Kawasaki as being far better quality wise.

The 250sl is a new platform, which I don't think has been tested in another bike, unless they've taken it from the KLX!

The CBR comes from the CBR250 which has been reportedly less reliable compared to the Kawasaki small motorcycles.

Don't confuse absolute number of problems with percentages.

Not knowing current sales numbers, but the year the 250 was released it sold more bikes than all of Kawasaki did in the 250+ cc market. And they had 8(?) models. Assuming that the Ninjettes made up 25% of their sales...wouldn't you expect to hear 4x as many problems with the CBR?

I can't say as I have.

[ll2]

I don't think Honda's are better quality wise than Kawasaki, it's about the same man.

Going on the recent platforms available locally, I think all acknowledge Kawasaki as being far better quality wise.

The 250sl is a new platform, which I don't think has been tested in another bike, unless they've taken it from the KLX!

The CBR comes from the CBR250 which has been reportedly less reliable compared to the Kawasaki small motorcycles.

yeah, where are those reports?

empty talk from deacon bell as usual

and it is only you acknowledge kawasaki is better quality wise in your dream world.

as moto guzzi said, similar prices similar quality!

but in this case, with better components and an engine with more grunt, 300 series has advantage over new kawa 250 series single.

you want to see it or you dont want to see it, it is all up to you deacon.

these both are good bikes, it is up to the feeling of the buyer to choose when sitting on them seeing them in real or test riding them. i would love to have the green naked kawa z single for example, it looks exciting and sure will offer slightly better ride for my taste.

Honda is a better all rounder in this equation but sure kawa will offer better riding dynamics - according to specs and chassis but cannot say 100 percent of course - so we choose according to our needs and tastes in our lives not with your misleading information!

Edited September 3, 2014 by ll2

[andrewrooney]

I don't think Honda's are better quality wise than Kawasaki, it's about the same man.

Going on the recent platforms available locally, I think all acknowledge Kawasaki as being far better quality wise.

The 250sl is a new platform, which I don't think has been tested in another bike, unless they've taken it from the KLX!

The CBR comes from the CBR250 which has been reportedly less reliable compared to the Kawasaki small motorcycles.

All acknowledge Kawasaki as being far better quality wise? Really? I'm starting to think you own a Kawa dealership somewhere

I've had my CBR300R for about three months now. I've put 4000km on it and the wheels haven't fallen off or the engine exploded yet, so, so far so good! Although from reading your comments in the CB300F thread I should consider myself lucky I'm still alive

That said the 250sl looks pretty good, and they've definitely managed to hit a great price point. No doubt it will be a fun bike. The only sticking point for me is the size. I saw them at the Central World bike show and they simply look too small for me. So, I guess I'll stick with my Honda, despite it only being 286cc and widely acknowledged as a poorly made deathtrap.

[Ridercnx808]

The CBR300 will be the more powerful machine. The 250SL is more comparable to the CBR 250, Kawa is going to sweep the market with a lower cost 250. Honda screwed up by raising prices too high for the CBR 300.

In this day and age its retarded to say the kawa isnt going to have tubeless tires. While the brake rotors are smaller that can also mean more powerful calipers as well as less weight and rotating mass. The disc are also 'petals' to induce better cooling.

Heres a pic comparing the CBR 250 vs the 250 SL. The top speed of the CBR250 is incorrect, its about the same as the SL sitting straight up.

Im going to get a 250SL just for the hinged gas cap.LOL

Edited September 3, 2014 by Ridercnx808

[ll2]

The CBR300 will be the more powerful machine. The 250SL is more comparable to the CBR 250, Kawa is going to sweep the market with a lower cost 250. Honda screwed up by raising prices too high for the CBR 300.

In this day and age its retarded to say the kawa isnt going to have tubeless tires. While the brake rotors are smaller that can also mean more powerful calipers as well as less weight and rotating mass. The disc are also 'petals' to induce better cooling.

Heres a pic comparing the CBR 250 vs the 250 SL. The top speed of the CBR250 is incorrect, its about the same as the SL sitting straight up.

Im going to get a 250SL just for the hinged gas cap.LOL

and sure at this price point no powerful calipers than cbr300.

these guys are providing this information about no tubeless tires still i cannot fully confirm kawa is offering tubeless tires or not as i stated at this point.

http://autos.maxabout.com/bikes/kawasaki/ninja/ninja-250sl-abs

Edited September 3, 2014 by ll2

[Ridercnx808]

Yes they are retarded, they got the topspeed of the CBR250 wrong as well.

Making a stronger caliper is simple, its a function of the master cylinder. But then again the bike is lighter so it doesnt require the same size rotor as the CBR250.

The Ninja 250r had a 130 rear tire that was tubeless, all they have to do is bring that back in the form of the shitty IRC Roadwinner as usual. IMO a 130 rear is just right for a lightweight 250.

[rambling]

For short term as a first bike stepping stone I'd probably go with the Kawa because it's cheaper and I'd want to upgrade fairly soon anyway. For long term, what Guzzi850m2 said.

[ktm jeff]

If the price of the cbr 250cc or 286cc (which Honda DOES keeps advertising as a "real" 300cc ) is 140 to 145,000 Baht and the Kawasaki is just 121,000 Baht (even less in naked form) then i make that over a 20,000 Baht difference !. It was proved recently that the weight of some Hondas (cbr / cb ?) was over 12 KG heavier than Honda has advertised. The 250cc Ninja has more power and MUCH less (true) weight which helps it accelerate nearly 20 % quicker. Thats important. The 286 engine is simply a re-hash of the flawed 250 engine and im very suprised anyone - even die hard "Honda" fans - are going anywhere near this family (CBR / CB / CRF ) of bikes. People are droping them with serious concerns of the much published faults. Im seeing them advertised for 50 / 60,000 Baht just a few years old. What the final selling price is is anyones guess. I would think the Ninja has tubeless tires. Technicaly the Ninja is in a higher class but i like the color scheme of the Repsol , always did when it was first used on the real CBR,s.Obviosly the 300cc (real) Ninja spanks all these as its aimed at a more racy buyer.

[dave_boo]

If the price of the cbr 250cc or 286cc (which Honda DOES keeps advertising as a "real" 300cc ) is 140 to 145,000 Baht and the Kawasaki is just 121,000 Baht (even less in naked form) then i make that over a 20,000 Baht difference !. It was proved recently that the weight of some Hondas (cbr / cb ?) was over 12 KG heavier than Honda has advertised. The 250cc Ninja has more power and MUCH less (true) weight which helps it accelerate nearly 20 % quicker. Thats important. The 286 engine is simply a re-hash of the flawed 250 engine and im very suprised anyone - even die hard "Honda" fans - are going anywhere near this family (CBR / CB / CRF ) of bikes. People are droping them with serious concerns of the much published faults. Im seeing them advertised for 50 / 60,000 Baht just a few years old. What the final selling price is is anyones guess. I would think the Ninja has tubeless tires. Technicaly the Ninja is in a higher class but i like the color scheme of the Repsol , always did when it was first used on the real CBR,s.Obviosly the 300cc (real) Ninja spanks all these as its aimed at a more racy buyer.

Please provide links for the below:

The real kerb weight of the CBR300 is 176kg+.

An independent dyno showing the Ninja 250SL having more than 27hp.

An independent weighing of the 250SL.

The flaws of the 250 engine. Would be helpful if you could show a rate of flaws at 4x the numbers of the Ninjette engines.

You claimed this was published. Please help me to find them.

[cornishcarlos]

CB500F....

No way you are having your own thread after destroying the 300F post

[andrewrooney]

If the price of the cbr 250cc or 286cc (which Honda DOES keeps advertising as a "real" 300cc ) is 140 to 145,000 Baht and the Kawasaki is just 121,000 Baht (even less in naked form) then i make that over a 20,000 Baht difference !. It was proved recently that the weight of some Hondas (cbr / cb ?) was over 12 KG heavier than Honda has advertised. The 250cc Ninja has more power and MUCH less (true) weight which helps it accelerate nearly 20 % quicker. Thats important. The 286 engine is simply a re-hash of the flawed 250 engine and im very suprised anyone - even die hard "Honda" fans - are going anywhere near this family (CBR / CB / CRF ) of bikes. People are droping them with serious concerns of the much published faults. Im seeing them advertised for 50 / 60,000 Baht just a few years old. What the final selling price is is anyones guess. I would think the Ninja has tubeless tires. Technicaly the Ninja is in a higher class but i like the color scheme of the Repsol , always did when it was first used on the real CBR,s.Obviosly the 300cc (real) Ninja spanks all these as its aimed at a more racy buyer.

I bought my CBR300 for 133,000 baht. Has Honda raised the price already?

Also I'm not sure where you're getting some of these numbers, especially that bit about the 250cc ninja having more power and accelerating "20% quicker." Unless you're comparing the old 2 cylinder 250 ninja to the old CBR250? That would make sense but it hardly seems relevant here.

Agreed that the Ninja 300 is definitely more powerful than the CBR300 (and at the price, it had better be), but let's not let this thread spiral out of control any more than we have to!

[ktm jeff]

Hi dave. I only read it yesterday , but forgot where. Obviously you did too. You wrote it !. Kawasaki Ninja 250 RR 2014 page - your post no 37. Mania got confused and thaught the Kawasaki KLX ha 17 BHP , and you corrected him , confirming it had about 26 (same as CRF).You then confirmed the 250cc single Kawasaki had about the same power as the CBR , but then added - quote - the kerb weight of the CBR 300 is 12 KG more than listed - end quote. Did you miss type , or i miss read ?. If the later its my fault. Your other concerns with the 250cc single (Kawasaki) having more than 27 BHP , i dont think it would - and never said so , in refrence to the 250,s. The 300cc (really a 300cc) Ninja does however have more power though (about 35 BHP). Someone / several people have taken their time to post a link to hundreds / thousands ? of posts RE the problems with this 250 / 286 engine / bike. Have a read.

[dave_boo]

Hi dave. I only read it yesterday , but forgot where. Obviously you did too. You wrote it !. Kawasaki Ninja 250 RR 2014 page - your post no 37. Mania got confused and thaught the Kawasaki KLX ha 17 BHP , and you corrected him , confirming it had about 26 (same as CRF).You then confirmed the 250cc single Kawasaki had about the same power as the CBR , but then added - quote - the kerb weight of the CBR 300 is 12 KG more than listed - end quote. Did you miss type , or i miss read ?. If the later its my fault. Your other concerns with the 250cc single (Kawasaki) having more than 27 BHP , i dont think it would - and never said so , in refrence to the 250,s. The 300cc (really a 300cc) Ninja does however have more power though (about 35 BHP). Someone / several people have taken their time to post a link to hundreds / thousands ? of posts RE the problems with this 250 / 286 engine / bike. Have a read.

Re-read my post! Plenty of caveats about 'claimed' and 'listed' information. Are you stating that those blurbs are in fact kerb weight? If they are it's a wonderful thing that Kawi has done. I just don't see the bike coming in with more power and less weight. I'd love to be wrong...but I also was thinking that Kawasaki would aim to make the bike a real competitor in the space with careful gearing; I was unfortunately wrong about that.

[ktm jeff]

Sorry Andrew , already posted. Accelration - Honda 0-60 3-5s ----- Kawasaki 0-60 3-0s. Slightly rounded to20% - really 18%. The prices are in post no 1 of this very thread. Last second edit - what i asked dave was did you not say the Honda was 12 KG heavier ?

Edited September 3, 2014 by ktm jeff

[ll2]

Hi dave. I only read it yesterday , but forgot where. Obviously you did too. You wrote it !. Kawasaki Ninja 250 RR 2014 page - your post no 37. Mania got confused and thaught the Kawasaki KLX ha 17 BHP , and you corrected him , confirming it had about 26 (same as CRF).You then confirmed the 250cc single Kawasaki had about the same power as the CBR , but then added - quote - the kerb weight of the CBR 300 is 12 KG more than listed - end quote. Did you miss type , or i miss read ?. If the later its my fault. Your other concerns with the 250cc single (Kawasaki) having more than 27 BHP , i dont think it would - and never said so , in refrence to the 250,s. The 300cc (really a 300cc) Ninja does however have more power though (about 35 BHP). Someone / several people have taken their time to post a link to hundreds / thousands ? of posts RE the problems with this 250 / 286 engine / bike. Have a read.

you can find those hundreds of posts about problems at any forum for any brand and model of bikes!

it means any model has a hundred lemon ones over ten thousand, this is normal.

they dont mean all hondas have lots of problems symjeff

also, you come and comment about things based on what you hear from someone in a forum? oh my..., we thought you know about bikes and coming speaking here based on some reports etc

Edited September 3, 2014 by ll2

[andrewrooney]

Sorry Andrew , already posted. Accelration - Honda 0-60 3-5s ----- Kawasaki 0-60 3-0s. Slightly rounded to20% - really 18%. The prices are in post no 1 of this very thread. Last second edit - what i asked dave was did you not say the Honda was 12 KG heavier ?

So you are comparing to the acceleration of the CBR250, not the 300. Understood.

Not sure where the OP got his CBR300 price, but I paid 133,000 for mine.

[ll2]

Sorry Andrew , already posted. Accelration - Honda 0-60 3-5s ----- Kawasaki 0-60 3-0s. Slightly rounded to20% - really 18%. The prices are in post no 1 of this very thread. Last second edit - what i asked dave was did you not say the Honda was 12 KG heavier ?

So you are comparing to the acceleration of the CBR250, not the 300. Understood.

Not sure where the OP got his CBR300 price, but I paid 133,000 for mine.

dont worry about the OP for a while andrew.

he was sent for a holiday as he was in need of some relaxation clearly

[Ridercnx808]

Sorry Andrew , already posted. Accelration - Honda 0-60 3-5s ----- Kawasaki 0-60 3-0s. Slightly rounded to20% - really 18%. The prices are in post no 1 of this very thread. Last second edit - what i asked dave was did you not say the Honda was 12 KG heavier ?

So you are comparing to the acceleration of the CBR250, not the 300. Understood.

Not sure where the OP got his CBR300 price, but I paid 133,000 for mine.

Those are the introductory sale prices, which Honda has stipulated for current sales. Its still not clear whether they are going to raise them, but they are marketed as 'introductory' prices if you buy now.

Good thing is, atleast dealers arent raping people like they did when the CBR250 first came out. Honda Headquarters must have laid the smack down on overpricing practices.

[ktm jeff]

Yes Andrew , the 250cc Honda. (quote - in reference to the 250,s) If you recently paid 133,000 Baht and that is still the price then thats a better price than the OP quoted - maybe from official list - sorry i dont know.

[andrewrooney]

If 133,000 is just the introductory price, it would be a big mistake for them to raise it now that this cheaper Ninja is out.

Whatever, I've got mine already

[Ridercnx808]

its 136k for repsol

133k for standard colors

125k for naked

for now

[ktm jeff]

Thank you 808. The Ninja is already 12,000 Baht less than the Honda cbr 286 , and of similar power.If the price of the Honda goes up even further to 140,000 they shoot themselves in the foot as its overpriced now !.

[dave_boo]

Thank you 808. The Ninja is already 12,000 Baht less than the Honda cbr 286 , and of similar power.If the price of the Honda goes up even further to 140,000 they shoot themselves in the foot as its overpriced now !.

Allegedly of similar power.

[Ridercnx808]

Thank you 808. The Ninja is already 12,000 Baht less than the Honda cbr 286 , and of similar power.If the price of the Honda goes up even further to 140,000 they shoot themselves in the foot as its overpriced now !.

I dont think they will though, Ive only seen 2 CBR 300's on the road since their release, Im sure there are more but its mainly Kawa in CNX.

Honda seems to have forgotten that its also the looks of the bike that sells, not just an increase in displacement. I know people have personal taste, but man the CBR just looks grandfatherish to me, too much like a responsible adult.....while both Ninjas look wild, fast and farking sexy.