Koh Tao - DNA tests do not match with those of suspects in British tourists' murder

[BigC]

Who/Where does the hoe belong to? Someone has to be familiar with it - an item one usually does not find on a beach....

CB

not true at all, they are everywhere in Thailand. i bet i could walk out of my house and find one inside 50 meters.

Yes this is correct I have 3 lying around in my garden but a forang tourist carrying one of those at night would look. It right where as a thai or a burmease man no one would batter an eyelid

[ldnguy]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

I think most people would just want to leave if something so horrific happened. You'd want to be as far away as possible. I don't see anything suspicious about that at all.

[12DrinkMore]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

If you had bothered to read your own link you would find (in red) DNA CANNOT: Determine the age or race of the donor

Yes, an amazing post, making an invalid statement and providing the link to the fact.

Luckily Fred is not a not a spokesman for the Thai Police.

Time to go back into the cave, eh, Fred, and remove the bullet from your foot?

[Suradit69]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

"I smell huge amounts of bullshit."

After reading through many of the posts written by the Bar Stool Crime Scene Investigators (BS-CSI) here at TV, that's a common reaction. Some people also feel light-headed & dizzy.

The whole concept of being tried by a jury of one's peers takes on a sinister hue when you consider that back in their home countries some of these same Bozos might have been called on to determine guilt or innocence of others.

[jspill]

How you can say sounds like a local gang is beyond me. How in the heck can you deduct that ? Boggles the mind.

Err, because the island has a local gang problem. Maybe the same group who did this http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/09/17/islander-who-was-glassed-in-murder-island-koh-tao-tells-of-his-lucky-escape/

Or this http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11326687

If all the other suspects have been ruled out by DNA, the likely deduction is a local gang. That, and them overcoming two victims after a struggle that included being in the ocean for some time, plus reports of several sources of semen in the girl.

[SirBser]

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[jspill]

"semen in the mans anus?" What a load of shit are you talking about?

That was stated in the media, do try to keep up. Although later reports reported otherwise. The whole incident has been covered badly.

[animatic]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Actually, DNA testing can't determine anything regarding race that's of any value to CSI, and the very link you provided mentions this fact. You can't take a piece of DNA and say, Oh, this guy is 1/3 Filipino, half Thai and part Burmese. It doesn't work like that. DNA can show ancestral DNA, but that rarely matches with a person's racial appearance (for instance, many "white" people have African American ancestral DNA.)

What can DNA tests determine, for purposes of CSI? Two things, plain and simple:

1. Match.

2. Not match.

Further info: http://essays.backintyme.biz/item/44

Please think again.

If we want to determine between English guys and Thai or Burmese guys,

then DNA haplogroups would quickly eliminate one or the other.

It is not a question of needing 100% accuracy to eliminate one group,

but the great unlikelihood of one group holding the others historical DNA chains.

More problematic to rule between Thai and Burmese of course.

In spite of the generalized Thai feelings of superiority over the Burmese,

they are much more interbreed and closer in DNA groupings with each other

than some would admit willingly. Far less so than compared to these British fellows being suspected.

http://www.genebase.com/support/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=230

They have never stated that the DNA of the semen found anally on the male victim,

was found internal or external, or specifically different than his own.

It is entirely possible if it was only external that it was his own.

It is also possible to be consensual from an earlier encounter and rape was not a factor.

Though his friend who has commented in TVF gave little credence to the bisexual theories

being thrown about...

The BIB are basically saying what three different groups want to hear.

Classic thai style.

The locals don't want to be blamed. So look at Burmese and English first.

And that fits to the ingrained nationalism of all locals.

The western press wants action in any form. So say something, anything to appease them.

And besides the appearance of getting something done is a good as getting something done,

till it gets shown up for being nothing, then instantly roll out another faux success.

The Thai press and leadership and tourism folks want it looking to be closing down, done deal.

And not blaming locals, and not reflecting badly on Thais and tourism,

so flog the friends and other foreigners theories early and loudly.

Again, roll out another appearance facade.

I have met the CSI Surat Thani people and they are serious and understand their jobs,

but don't have the facilities and budget to do what they want.

But they are reasonably well trained, and want to do a good job...

Then of course local and national politics will run roughshod over them,

And the local BIB will have botched the scene pretty well before they even arrive.

This is a horrible incident and the damage swells far beyond the two victims.

Sadly much of the damage is Thais Authorities inflicting own goals by their own mouths.

RIP the poor couple.

[canuckamuck]

It would be nice to know if the DNA found in the semen was connected to the shared cigarette or the unshared one (or the lipstick one, but they didn't say they found DNA on that one). And what was the sex of the DNA found. If the shared one, then you have a strong suggestion of at least two attackers.

A hoe as a murder weapon seems to imply local people because tourists don't usually have access to hoes at night on the beach. Nor would they be likely to use one as a weapon, being unfamiliar with it.

Who is unfamiliar with a hoe ? Come on canuckamuck, get real.

I won't argue the point much, but it seems an unlikely weapon for a western tourist to use. It occurs to me that backpacking tourists are most likely city folk. But I suppose lots of people recognize them and have used one. Although hoes (not ho's) are different here, a lot more robust and would make a very good weapon, unlike the ones I knew from Canada which are light and weak.

Whatever.

[huawei]

It would be nice to know if the DNA found in the semen was connected to the shared cigarette or the unshared one (or the lipstick one, but they didn't say they found DNA on that one). And what was the sex of the DNA found. If the shared one, then you have a strong suggestion of at least two attackers.

A hoe as a murder weapon seems to imply local people because tourists don't usually have access to hoes at night on the beach. Nor would they be likely to use one as a weapon, being unfamiliar with it.

Who is unfamiliar with a hoe ? Come on canuckamuck, get real.

I won't argue the point much, but it seems an unlikely weapon for a western tourist to use. It occurs to me that backpacking tourists are most likely city folk. But I suppose lots of people recognize them and have used one. Although hoes (not ho's) are different here, a lot more robust and would make a very good weapon, unlike the ones I knew from Canada which are light and weak.

Whatever.

You are absolutely correct . The weapon is not indicative of a foreigner . Especially to look for one, carry one along the beach etc..

[phuketrichard]

MY scenerio

They were having a good time on the beach with he on top, someone ( s) came upon them an hit him in the head with the hoe

Government would love it to NOT be a Thai but......

[12DrinkMore]

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Sometimes the simple explanations are the best.

However, if this is true, then all those bartenders should go and report this to the police. They have important evidence in a double murder case and a moral responsibility.

Running away like a bunch of cowardly kids because of no work permit is NOT AN OPTION.

In the worst case they would be deported back to their home country. Big deal. Two people are not going to make it back alive.

The police are looking for a double murderer.

[mrtoad]

The whole thing has become a complete circus

[coffeeman]

could of been one killer easily.

the british couple go for a walk on the beach, they go behind the rocks to make out, and enjoy the quiet moment, the killer comes with the Hoe in his hand, and cracks the British man over the head knocking him out and to the ground. and then before the female can even scream is struck by the killer, WHACK, WHACK both tourists are down and no sound has been made..

while the girl is unconscious, the man drags the man into the ocean and drowns him, he then goes to the woman who is not dead yet, but unconscious and rapes her.. and then he kills her.. and he leaves..

leaves seamen, a bloodied hoe, and some dna behind? meaning probably not meditated by a someone who thought this through, but maybe some someone who was just lurking around, saw the couple and wanted a rape! and must have a fetist for murder.. which really wouldnt surprise me in thailand, criminals from all over the world has relocated to thailand and philipines to get away from their convictions in their own countries, and still have the fetish to kill..

[crazykopite]

I am at a loss as to why a garden hoe would be on the beach except for one of the local food places using it when they set there tables up on the beach they bury electrical cable in the sand for the lights, it also stated that the female victim had blonde hair strands in her hair whilst it shows the British suspect having dark hair in the photo released . My fear is that due to the incompetence of the Thai police the killer/Killers will never be found which is not uncommon the only thing the local police are good at is taking fines off tourists for failing to wear a crash helmet they do not have the expertise or experience into such tragic circumstances

[animatic]

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

First I had heard of this, but it makes perfect sense.

Loss of face in public for the Thai guy, seeks drunken revenge with his mates at 4 am.

Such an SOP thing in Thailand, yet most vacationers don't realize how common it is.

It usually doesn't become double murder on the beach, but not unusual none the less.

[CraigSchuler]

Bet that British suspect can't wait to begin planning his next vacation. Wonder if it will be Thailand?

[metisdead]

A post containing slanderous allegations toward Thai immigration as well as overly derogatory generalizations toward Thai men has been removed. Other inflammatory and nonsense posts have also been removed.

[SirBser]

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Sometimes the simple explanations are the best.

However, if this is true, then all those bartenders should go and report this to the police. They have important evidence in a double murder case and a moral responsibility.

Running away like a bunch of cowardly kids because of no work permit is NOT AN OPTION.

In the worst case they would be deported back to their home country. Big deal. Two people are not going to make it back alive.

The police are looking for a double murderer.

The way I look at it is if somebody who has information goes back and tell the police they could be next to die. Think about it what if some of the Koh Tao police are covering for the killer and than the police see this person come with very valuable information and than want to knock them off the earth so they can never repeat what they know....

Why do you think the police never looked with locals and focused all on Burmese. A real cop not a corrupt cop would focus on everyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[animatic]

I am at a loss as to why a garden hoe would be on the beach except for one of the local food places using it when they set there tables up on the beach they bury electrical cable in the sand for the lights, it also stated that the female victim had blonde hair strands in her hair whilst it shows the British suspect having dark hair in the photo released . My fear is that due to the incompetence of the Thai police the killer/Killers will never be found which is not uncommon the only thing the local police are good at is taking fines off tourists for failing to wear a crash helmet they do not have the expertise or experience into such tragic circumstances

Almost ever beach resort has manicured gardens within 40 feet of the seashore, garden hoes are more useful keeping the sand on the beach rather than in the gardens than most other impliments. Though I don't tend to think vacationing British lads would think of this tool being nearby.

Hard to keep up.

Now they are saying he wasn't raped.

So good for his legacy, but shows one more cockup in the reporting or leaks from BIB.

Edited September 18, 2014 by animatic

[Ve37]

What possibly started as a rape ended in a double murder perhaps. Based on this and the murder weapon (the hoe), the investigation should also focus on local Thai suspects, as they have avoided even the mention of this for tourism reasons thus far only vaguely referring to one Asian-looking suspect.

From what I've read, the rapist is a smoker,...and use of a hoe as weapon is likely not a pre-meditated murder. Although typical neurotic ciggie smokers could be prone to the most hideous of crimes,...in this case, the subject may use this crazy incident to quit smoking (and yaba), and disappear,...a mystery where what will be remember most is General Prayuth's comment about farang and their skimpy, inappropriate, provocative attire.

"Thailand's military ruler on Wednesday questioned whether tourists in bikinis are safe in the kingdom, in comments following the murder of two Britons whose battered bodies were found on a Thai island."

Edited September 18, 2014 by Ve37

[Maroon Watcher]

many people vist moon parties/beach parties, including locals looking for friendly girls, opportunities and targets....

Justice has to be seen to be total - the British press will not let go of this one.

This will also be proof of the New regime in Thailand - eveyone wants (except those who have something to hide or gain...)

[6NS]

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

This is exactly what I would have expected had happened.

Thai boys don't take lightly loosing out to a Farang in there country.

[Minnehaha]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Actually, DNA testing can't determine anything regarding race that's of any value to CSI, and the very link you provided mentions this fact. You can't take a piece of DNA and say, Oh, this guy is 1/3 Filipino, half Thai and part Burmese. It doesn't work like that. DNA can show ancestral DNA, but that rarely matches with a person's racial appearance (for instance, many "white" people have African American ancestral DNA.)

What can DNA tests determine, for purposes of CSI? Two things, plain and simple:

1. Match.

2. Not match.

Further info: http://essays.backintyme.biz/item/44

It is amazing how many people assume DNA can identify race, when a simple google search will reveal that clearly all DNA testing can do is match or no match. It can identify family match, related by blood. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that a son will appear to have same DNA as a grandfather in terms of its similarity. There was a great story in the New York Times recently about a PhD scientist... who works with DNA for a living... who tested his own DNA and gave tests as gifts to his father and mother. When testing one is given the option to allow searches to the million (or so) others who have submitted their DNA to search for matches. A match came up for his father and the scientist thought it was the grandfather, but when he inquired the match was for a man who was adopted and was searching for his biological family. The scientist debated with his sister but finally told Dad who was shocked but admitted to the affair. Broke the family up. M and D divorced and nobody is talking to each other.

[kieran2698]

They only mention DNA tests of evidence including cigarettes on the beach which would hardly be enough to get a conviction as they could have been there before the murder.

What about the semen and what about the blood stained jeans in the fleeing friends bag? Perhaps these tests have not been finished.

[deecee10]

local gang

[AlphMichaels]

With regard to the "drowning", they were on the beach and close to the water. High tide. Low tide. Wonder if anyone thought of that?

[SirBser]

They only mention DNA tests of evidence including cigarettes on the beach which would hardly be enough to get a conviction as they could have been there before the murder.

What about the semen and what about the blood stained jeans in the fleeing friends bag? Perhaps these tests have not been finished.

It was not blood on the pants, they did tests and said it was a chemical reaction on the pants...

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[smutcakes]

With regard to the "drowning", they were on the beach and close to the water. High tide. Low tide. Wonder if anyone thought of that?

Apparently it was high water about 2 hours after the approximate time of death.

[johnnytuc]

A sad result of the island being owned and policed by gangsters. More stories will start pouring out now, such as this one

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/09/17/islander-who-was-glassed-in-murder-island-koh-tao-tells-of-his-lucky-escape/

That the police have always covered up for the young wealthy scions of the influential local families has led to their feeling of being totally untouchable.