Koh Tao - Autopsy of murdered Britons shows struggle, drowning

[lemonjelly]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2760012/Smearing-Britons-murdered-paradise-As-hunt-killers-descends-farce-Thai-prime-minister-insults-Western-girls.html

[wandasloan]

A TV text says the semen found in the girl doesn't match any suspect.

Square One for the BIB.

Well, one would expect from information so far that the semen would match the dead man. That it "doesn't match any suspect" only indicates (at this point, retests always are necessary) indicates she was not raped by the killer(s).

The horrific brutality of this crime, including with a death struggle with the male victim, would already be an indicator that she was not raped by the killer(s).

It's a bit of a red herring to say the DNA does not match any suspect, since that would be the expectation.

.

[monk213]

No word about the hair in the ladies hand.

Seems like quite a clue to me.

In murder investigations police should refrain from releasing the evidence and leads they have to the public, or at least not all of them. Only when the case is either gone totally cold or is escalating as a serial killing case should they resort to releasing everything they know. It is often best to keep the public in the dark on most things so the actual killer or killers cannot have an advantage

[Fat Haggis]

There's already a "theory" as to why this murder took place on the backpacker detained thread, It was posted to Hannah's facebook page that she was getting unwanted attention from a Thai, and influential Thai on the Island, and David stepped in, its being talked about in Koh Tao that this guy and another waited outside for them and well... the rest of the details are all there.

It's been suggested that it's a cover up as the Thai in question is a relation of some sort of the owner(s) of the Island.. don't take my words for it and rip them to shreds, read through the thread that's 30 odd pages long..

[chaoyang]

Unfortunately I was up close and personal with the Kirsty Jones case in Chiang Mai -- knew the owner of the guesthouse where she was killed, etc.

The drill in that case was:

1 trample the crime scene and allow newspaper reporters and all and sundry into the room to gawk

2 make various pronouncements about suspects that had no basis in reality at all

3 tried to pin it one one of her foreign male friends

4 tried to pin it on the British guest house owner

5 tried to pin it on hilltribe people

6 tried to pin it on katoeys

They said the autopsy showed semen in the crime was Asian -- that's when they moved on to hilltribe and katoeys -- so DNA CAN tell that.

It appears that the police in this latest sad case went right to steps 3 and 5 (her foreigner friends and Asians who are not Thai)..

What they are looking for is someone dispossessed and powerless in Thai society. Because of DNA they might just be stuck with Asians as suspects -- but hey, there are plenty of boat people, migrant workers, etc., etc.

They want to protect the tourism industry, but even more important in any equation is "face". They will tell any ridiculous story and put innocent people to death to "save face" and the image of Thailand.

I predict more powerless non-Thai Asians will be "arrested".

[Fat Haggis]

A TV text says the semen found in the girl doesn't match any suspect.

Square One for the BIB.

Well, one would expect from information so far that the semen would match the dead man. That it "doesn't match any suspect" only indicates (at this point, retests always are necessary) indicates she was not raped by the killer(s).

The horrific brutality of this crime, including with a death struggle with the male victim, would already be an indicator that she was not raped by the killer(s).

It's a bit of a red herring to say the DNA does not match any suspect, since that would be the expectation.

.

There's apparently 2 traces of semen from different people, one from her vagina and another from her anus

[chotthee]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2760012/Smearing-Britons-murdered-paradise-As-hunt-killers-descends-farce-Thai-prime-minister-insults-Western-girls.html

Very damaging to the Thai tourist industry.

I hope Daily Mail remove it, or at the very least, block off the access for anyone all over the world (not just Thailand).

[wabothai]

What the f....

Is it hair of a thai or a caucasion? The young lady must have known that this could be a clue with investigations and hid some hair in her hand.

Damn......

[selftaopath]

In my opinion if the pathetic, corrupt, inept Thai police can not pin this on a foreigner they'll rule it a murder/suicide.... as is so typical.

It might be also interesting to know how many foreigners "fell" from balconies vs being pushed?

[Fat Haggis]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2760012/Smearing-Britons-murdered-paradise-As-hunt-killers-descends-farce-Thai-prime-minister-insults-Western-girls.html

Very damaging to the Thai tourist industry.

I hope Daily Mail remove it, or at the very least, block off the access for anyone all over the world (not just Thailand).

Why? Why should they hide it/remove it/block it from the rest of the world?

What are you so scared of? Don't bother answering, as you're head is so deep in the sand that you wouldn't be able to see or hear anything as it is..

You think that the comments from the PM hasn't been damaging to the Thai Tourist industry? You think that the Coup hasn't had an effect on the tourist Industry? You think that the brutal murder on a tiny Thai Island hasn't damaged the Industry..

You need to stay off the yaba, and go and seek some help, as you're dillusional!!

[wandasloan]

Very damaging to the Thai tourist industry.

I hope Daily Mail remove it, or at the very least, block off the access for anyone all over the world (not just Thailand).

Why would they do that to their own story? The newspaper has no responsibility to the Thai tourist industry. Nor does anyone but the Thai tourist industry. Thai Visa has no responsibility to the Thai tourist industry, I don't, etc.

I think it's a poorly written, basically uninformative story. But it has been written and published. The idea of censoring it is worse than that.

.

[H1w4yR1da]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2760012/Smearing-Britons-murdered-paradise-As-hunt-killers-descends-farce-Thai-prime-minister-insults-Western-girls.html

Very damaging to the Thai tourist industry.

I hope Daily Mail remove it, or at the very least, block off the access for anyone all over the world (not just Thailand).

The Daily Mail is blocked in Thailand.

Happy?

Maybe you and your mates can get together and burn some books while you're at it.

[morpho]

The brutality of these murders is almost unimaginable. Whoever did this did it with intense malice/rage. I had never looked at bestgore.com before but did in this case and the photos are gruesomely graphic.

[les Dennis]

If the lab deduces it wasnt blood but a chemical, (and cant elaborate on what kind of chemical) is the same lab as the DNA tests, I wouldnt really have too much faith in their reults.

[foxteen]

If David Miller was drowned then this strongly points to a gang attack IMO. Very unlikely a single male could have done all this given the nature of the injuries to both victims. Surely the DNA will tell us how many attackers there were and their ethnicity. This would then allow the police to focus their efforts rather than the random approach we've seen so far.

Very odd how they seem to be ignoring the possibility it was a Thai. I'm not saying it was, but it would be beyond amateur for the police to rule out all Thai nationals based on "Thai people would not do a bad thing like this". I hate to say it but I'm starting to smell a coverup here. Lucky it's got so much international attention or I suspect a patsy would have been found already.

Might be time to get DNA from every male (Thai/Burmese/Western) on the island that night.

Thai people would not do a bad thing like this... i don't know how you got this idea that Thai people not do that..Lots of news of Thai people behave crazy..just check it up..Who ever kills them is more then one person.Not sure the motives but hope will come clear

[halloween]

Well, one would expect from information so far that the semen would match the dead man. That it "doesn't match any suspect" only indicates (at this point, retests always are necessary) indicates she was not raped by the killer(s).

The horrific brutality of this crime, including with a death struggle with the male victim, would already be an indicator that she was not raped by the killer(s).

It's a bit of a red herring to say the DNA does not match any suspect, since that would be the expectation.

.

I am truly amazed at the conclusions you manage to draw. To me, that the DNA doesn't match the suspects only indicates that they have the wrong suspects.

[Fat Haggis]

Halloween, you need to stop being so sensible with your posts!!

[media]

Dont mean to be negative but the police have totally bungled this investigation, the bodies and crime scene were not sealed off by local police AND they did not seal off the island.

They should have photographed and checked everyone leaving the island, taken hair samples for DNA, look for injuries or scuffle marks. and copy of I.D

Any innocent people would surely not begrudge the investigation / CLEARING them as a suspect.

The killers are long gone! it will be a miracle if they can solve this now.

[Thai at Heart]

DNA from Semen could clear up where the semen came from.

Is it Asian semen or Western semen?

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Where does it say there is a sample of semen?

[Nickymaster]

DNA from Semen could clear up where the semen came from.

Is it Asian semen or Western semen?

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Where does it say there is a sample of semen?

All over the papers in Thailand. Since last night.

[Thai at Heart]

There's already a "theory" as to why this murder took place on the backpacker detained thread, It was posted to Hannah's facebook page that she was getting unwanted attention from a Thai, and influential Thai on the Island, and David stepped in, its being talked about in Koh Tao that this guy and another waited outside for them and well... the rest of the details are all there.

It's been suggested that it's a cover up as the Thai in question is a relation of some sort of the owner(s) of the Island.. don't take my words for it and rip them to shreds, read through the thread that's 30 odd pages long..

Where is the Facebook link?

[Thai at Heart]

DNA from Semen could clear up where the semen came from.

Is it Asian semen or Western semen?

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Where does it say there is a sample of semen?

All over the papers in Thailand. Since last night.

Well not in this report it doesn't say. I posted an article from a British paper yesterday that quoted the pathologist claiming there was no semen found.

Bit of a 180 degree misunderstanding. Either there was or there wasn't. Useless press management

[Stokakrishna]

fishy.

somethings fishy again

[Nickymaster]

Dont mean to be negative but the police have totally bungled this investigation, the bodies and crime scene were not sealed off by local police AND they did not seal off the island.

They should have photographed and checked everyone leaving the island, taken hair samples for DNA, look for injuries or scuffle marks. and copy of I.D

Any innocent people would surely not begrudge the investigation / CLEARING them as a suspect.

The killers are long gone! it will be a miracle if they can solve this now.

Dont mean to be negative but the police have totally bungled this investigation, the bodies and crime scene were not sealed off by local police AND they did not seal off the island.

You are correct about the police force. Most often the police are controlled by influential people in the area.

They should have photographed and checked everyone leaving the island, taken hair samples for DNA, look for injuries or scuffle marks. and copy of I.D

I think you are right but Thailand isn't capable of doing that. The police force, especially on those Islands, is not that modern. Or should I use the word capable..

And sealing of in Island, if possible, doesn't really help a few hours after this tragedy happened. The murderer(s). Could have jumped into a boat an disappear.

[HeijoshinCool]

So much false and rumor info being passed around by the police and media. Police should stop releasing theories until they have the facts.

Like whose semen was found on the girl? does it match David Miller?

Does the victims DNA match the ones on the cigarette butt?

And the bloody piece of clothing found in Christopher Ware, does any of the victims DNA match the blood sample? Does it match Christophers?

If the facts are there, so much rumor can be cleared up.

.

Sorta like in this thread, huh?

[vogie]

DNA from Semen could clear up where the semen came from.

Is it Asian semen or Western semen?

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Most of us know where semen comes from as we did biology at school

[jamiesilver]

This is so sad and horrific

I really hope the family get some 3rd party or bring the BBC in to get some proper answers to this crime.
Its obvious that any investigations so far are a complete mess.
Now its down to cigarette butts on a beach??
Semen, the CCTV footage of a man running Asian man running away, 2 cases of sexual intercourse. there must be so many clues here.

[pumpuy]

Dont mean to be negative but the police have totally bungled this investigation, the bodies and crime scene were not sealed off by local police AND they did not seal off the island.

They should have photographed and checked everyone leaving the island, taken hair samples for DNA, look for injuries or scuffle marks. and copy of I.D

Any innocent people would surely not begrudge the investigation / CLEARING them as a suspect.

The killers are long gone! it will be a miracle if they can solve this now.

Dont mean to be negative but the police have totally bungled this investigation, the bodies and crime scene were not sealed off by local police AND they did not seal off the island.

You are correct about the police force. Most often the police are controlled by influential people in the area.

They should have photographed and checked everyone leaving the island, taken hair samples for DNA, look for injuries or scuffle marks. and copy of I.D

I think you are right but Thailand isn't capable of doing that. The police force, especially on those Islands, is not that modern. Or should I use the word capable..

And sealing of in Island, if possible, doesn't really help a few hours after this tragedy happened. The murderer(s). Could have jumped into a boat an disappear.

I hope that Thai police did question all ferry crew members about having noticed people with wounds or unususal behaviour leaving the island the morning after the murders ?

[Traveller45]

Let's resume this real quick, shall we, with regard to the hoe. It reminds of a cheap class B horror movie and borders on the hilarious if it weren't so sad.

A) A hoe is generally seen as a working tool that workers possess. Workers are careful with it and don't leave it about unattended.

Let us now imagine a tourist who goes to a local hardware store and buys a hoe. He (presumably male person) then carries it around, peacefully on his shoulder, brings it to the party ("Hey Mate watcha need that thing for") waiting for the opportunity to come.

Come on...

This would then really for all practical purposes only leave

C) Either a local work gang who are in this together (the big question is WHY?) or indeed, as has been suggested, an influential Thai (on the important island of Koh Tao...!) who obviously would have had access to work gangs and their tools (but witnesses, witnesses...)

[richusa]

It seems more and more now to be pointing towards at least 2 or more people, intoxicated coming across the pair of Brits on the beach. I would just assume this group of people saw what was going on and in an intoxicated group manner decided to force their way into the situation. Miller tries to fight back but gets dragged into the water and gets beaten/drowned, then they turn their attention to the poor girl. This is just my assumption from a few days of reading through 'evidence'.

When people are in groups often they can adopt pack mentalities and this is seen in riots and various examples, especially if intoxicated. Frenzies can build and people do things they often would not.

I said from the 1st post. It will be easy to find the culprits. Only Thais would do this, lose face in bar and grab the gang and.....well here it is.