Engine oil is consistently overfilled by the dealer

[funlovinkid]

I have a 2011 Toyota Vios, bought new from the dealer. I always return to the dealership where I bought the car to have the oil changed, as part of the routine maintenance.

Every time the car is returned to me after an oil change, I see that the oil is overfilled. This time (just after the warranty expired) I measured the amount of overfill, and it's around 9mm above the high-oil mark on the dipstick. And yes, I measure the oil level while the engine is still hot, several minutes after switching off the engine. And yes, I know it can be difficult to see the correct oil level on the dipstick, especially when the oil is new and very clear. But I have checked and re-checked, and I keep getting the same result: it's always considerably higher than the high-level mark.

I know that overfilling engine oil can lead to some very serious engine problems, and so I'm understandably concerned. As a result, I plan to have some oil drained out, but for this purpose I probably won't take it to the same dealership.

The fact that this consistently happens worries me a lot, as it would be a very easy and very effective way to cause premature engine damage, and have me back in the dealership getting the engine repaired due to damage that they actually caused.

I know it would be easy to just chalk it up to negligence on the part of the mechanic, but their behavior has been very consistent in that regard - the oil level is *always* above the high-level mark.

For those of you unfamiliar with this issue, it might be worthwhile to check your engine oil level as well!

I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with this?

[bkkjames]

If this has been happening for years why not raise it with them previously?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cylon]

9mm ,Did you get out the spirit level and make sure the car is sitting completely level.

[funlovinkid]

If this has been happening for years why not raise it with them previously?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's a good question. A couple of reasons: Previously, I wasn't certain how much of an issue it should be, and also, I had very little confidence in them taking the matter seriously.

[funlovinkid]

9mm ,Did you get out the spirit level and make sure the car is sitting completely level.

No, but the parking lot where I have measured the oil is very level - and I doubt if any slight variation on this would explain a 9mm difference.

[wilcopops]

You need to find out how much those MM on the stick represent in VOLUME of oil.

Then find out how much the manufacturer recommends.

This will let you know if this is a BIG overfill....and how much represents possible damage to the vehicle.

Then you need to find out why?

• Are they not draining the engine properly?
• Are just filling until the can empties - regardless of how much is actually needed?
• Or, is it possible that the dip-stick is incorrectly calibrated, or pushed in too far?
• or finally rare the suffering from the same mental disorder that makes almost all garages over-inflate tyres?

When you have the facts, you can approach the garage to sort them out.....and continue to use them. they may well treat you with a new respect........ My Nissan dealer thinks I'm a 4WD expert as I pointed out to him that there are 2 drive shafts on a 4WD pickup!!! (Ching Ching!)

[BSJ]

They are adding the required amount of oil....so the dipstick is wrong. Seriously, you have the wrong dipstick!

[funlovinkid]

They are adding the required amount of oil....so the dipstick is wrong. Seriously, you have the wrong dipstick!

The car was purchased absolutely brand new, from the Toyota dealer. Sorry, I don't understand how you could expect me to take your comment seriously!

[wilcopops]

They are adding the required amount of oil....so the dipstick is wrong. Seriously, you have the wrong dipstick!

"They are adding the required amount of oil" - how do we know that?

[kartman]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

[ClutchClark]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

So if the OP makes a complaint there is actually a risk he will be backcharged?

9mm times # of oil changes since new, hmmm, possibly better not to mention it.

[Daffy D]

When my Toyota gets serviced, they always fill to the correct dipstick mark and give me the oil can with the remaining oil in it.

I think the OP has a valid point and should bring it up at the next service. If it happens again.

Or if the service has been recently go back and ask them to drain the excess oil. (And ask them to give it to you - but I wish you luck with that )

[wilcopops]

When my Toyota gets serviced, they always fill to the correct dipstick mark and give me the oil can with the remaining oil in it.

I think the OP has a valid point and should bring it up at the next service. If it happens again.

Or if the service has been recently go back and ask them to drain the excess oil. (And ask them to give it to you - but I wish you luck with that )

I would think that this is easily solved in a suitably non-confrontational way.

Just show them the dip-stick, smile a lot and simply ask to drain out a little bit...DEFINITELY don't ask for the oil, that or a100 baht tip to the mechanic should be fine.

i have on occasion given a bottle of whiskey to my service manger, the difference it makes is astounding, and neither he nor I drink.

BTW - I'm assuming you aren't leaking oil anywhere? i.e. where the car is parked should be spotless. Ultra high levels of oil could mess up breathers etc and cause leaks....at first.......

Edited September 19, 2014 by wilcopops

[WarpSpeed]

They are adding the required amount of oil....so the dipstick is wrong. Seriously, you have the wrong dipstick!

"They are adding the required amount of oil" - how do we know that?

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's tongue in cheek, he's mimicking the expected answer, you know? The "old we can't be wrong so you must have the wrong dipstick" type of answer? Though not sure as he has added "seriously" to his comment.

[WarpSpeed]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

But don't dealers use bulk oil in 55gl drums and pump & measure it out into a metering container and then pour it in? I know most here do that, it's far cheaper and easier too with no containers to dispose of.

Edited September 19, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

When my Toyota gets serviced, they always fill to the correct dipstick mark and give me the oil can with the remaining oil in it.

I think the OP has a valid point and should bring it up at the next service. If it happens again.

Or if the service has been recently go back and ask them to drain the excess oil. (And ask them to give it to you - but I wish you luck with that )

What's curious about this is usually the oil pan holds an amount equal to a certain number of quarts or liters and now that I'm writing it that's likely why he has over fill as the oil pans are generally measured in quarts of oil while the containers, if they are using containers? Are likely measured in liters there, so giving an extra amount (or less requiring more containers to fill, but leaving left over, or over filling to empty the last bit) in every container and the mechanic has not been taught to compensate for that always putting the same number or containers without compensating and not caring. The dealership should be informed of this as it can not only damage engines as the OP has mentioned but they are wasting a lot of oil and like Daffy mentioned it could/should be passed to the customer instead. My thought is that the dealer has not given this any thought, the OP should bring it up with them, a change is necessary..

Edited September 19, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Pomthai]

It's very doubtful it'll do any harm. 9 mm isn't very much especially on a gasoline engine.

Not worth worrying about.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes it can, the crank has only millimeters between it and a full pan of oil and allowing for bounce distance if the crank slams the oil at high revs much it will do serious damage, it's like hitting it consistently with a hammer.

[golden farang]

That's not much of overfill and the engine has higher oil consumption if overfilled and will be normal in time. Not worry about it! better have oil than no oil..

[Satcommlee]

I overfilled a Mama Cup today, but there was no adverse reaction..

[ClutchClark]

When my Toyota gets serviced, they always fill to the correct dipstick mark and give me the oil can with the remaining oil in it.

I think the OP has a valid point and should bring it up at the next service. If it happens again.

Or if the service has been recently go back and ask them to drain the excess oil. (And ask them to give it to you - but I wish you luck with that )

I would think that this is easily solved in a suitably non-confrontational way.

Just show them the dip-stick, smile a lot and simply ask to drain out a little bit...DEFINITELY don't ask for the oil, that or a100 baht tip to the mechanic should be fine.

i have on occasion given a bottle of whiskey to my service manger, the difference it makes is astounding, and neither he nor I drink.

BTW - I'm assuming you aren't leaking oil anywhere? i.e. where the car is parked should be spotless. Ultra high levels of oil could mess up breathers etc and cause leaks....at first.......

It is not real easy to drain out a little bit of oil...you can spin the oil filter loose but its messy. Maybe you guys know a better method?

It might be better to ask the shop procedure on how correct oil volume is determined.

Most shops do not add individual liters of oil but rather pump it from a large drum into an oilcan of a certain capacity.

It could actually be that the correct amount is being added but the dipstick was manufactured a bit crudely. I have found that to be the case on some vehicles I have serviced.

On smaller engines it doesn't take much "extra" to overfill.

[ClutchClark]

Yes it can, the crank has only millimeters between it and a full pan of oil and allowing for bounce distance if the crank slams the oil at high revs much it will do serious damage, it's like hitting it consistently with a hammer.

Like every time the vehicle goes over a bump or on a descent/ascent? The problem created by too much oil is not a "hammer effect" but rather that the extra oil can affect seals and can push past the rings and become part of the combustion process and affect Emission Eqpt.

[ClutchClark]

Depending on engine size:

Engine 1.3 L 2NZ-FE (3.7 liters oil capacity w/filter change)

1.5 L 1NZ-FE (3.7 liters oil capacity w/filter change)

1.6 L 4ZR-FE (4.2 liters oil capacity w/filter change)

[WarpSpeed]

Yes it can, the crank has only millimeters between it and a full pan of oil and allowing for bounce distance if the crank slams the oil at high revs much it will do serious damage, it's like hitting it consistently with a hammer.

Like every time the vehicle goes over a bump or on a descent/ascent? The problem created by too much oil is not a "hammer effect" but rather that the extra oil can affect seals and can push past the rings and become part of the combustion process and affect Emission Eqpt.

It is a hammering effect and it also causes the oil to produce air bubbles and foam which then causes ineffective lubrication. The hammering effect is not dissimilar to a piston impacting a valve on the top end, and it can bend rods and destroy bearings.

[ClutchClark]

Yes it can, the crank has only millimeters between it and a full pan of oil and allowing for bounce distance if the crank slams the oil at high revs much it will do serious damage, it's like hitting it consistently with a hammer.

Like every time the vehicle goes over a bump or on a descent/ascent? The problem created by too much oil is not a "hammer effect" but rather that the extra oil can affect seals and can push past the rings and become part of the combustion process and affect Emission Eqpt.

It is a hammering effect and it also causes the oil to produce air bubbles and foam which then causes ineffective lubrication. The hammering effect is not dissimilar to a piston impacting a valve on the top end, and it can bend rods and destroy bearings.

Now that is a true statement about it resulting in "cavitation" or air bubbles and ineffective lubrication.

Cheers

[funlovinkid]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

But don't dealers use bulk oil in 55gl drums and pump & measure it out into a metering container and then pour it in? I know most here do that, it's far cheaper and easier too with no containers to dispose of.

WarpSpeed, not sure about that. Every time my oil has been changed, they thereafter offer me the plastic oil container with the remainder of the unused oil still in the container, which I think is a policy to not only offer the remaining unused oil to the customer, but also to show what type of oil they put in. I always politely refuse to receive the container, and I have never checked the capacity, but I'm guessing it's 4 or 5 liters. In any event (with this dealer at least), they don't appear to be using the large drums of oil.

[funlovinkid]

It's very doubtful it'll do any harm. 9 mm isn't very much especially on a gasoline engine.

Not worth worrying about.

The Toyota manual is very specific about this: anything above the high-level mark is "overfilled". And I beg to differ: 9mm represents roughly a third of the distance on the dipstick between the low-level and the high-level mark, which would imply that the engine has 33% more oil than it should.

[WarpSpeed]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

But don't dealers use bulk oil in 55gl drums and pump & measure it out into a metering container and then pour it in? I know most here do that, it's far cheaper and easier too with no containers to dispose of.

WarpSpeed, not sure about that. Every time my oil has been changed, they thereafter offer me the plastic oil container with the remainder of the unused oil still in the container, which I think is a policy to not only offer the remaining unused oil to the customer, but also to show what type of oil they put in. I always politely refuse to receive the container, and I have never checked the capacity, but I'm guessing it's 4 or 5 liters. In any event (with this dealer at least), they don't appear to be using the large drums of oil.

Ok well that's a potential problem to begin with if they can't do the math to convert from quarts to liters but still It's easy enough to predict by throwing in the first 3 or 4 depending on how much total and more slowly put in the last container while monitoring the dipstick level. Shouldn't be all that complicated but TiT. It's really their loss not to use bulk oil, It's easier and cheaper, but maybe they feel they can't keep good inventory or track the use without the containers to account for it.

Edited September 20, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[ClutchClark]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

But don't dealers use bulk oil in 55gl drums and pump & measure it out into a metering container and then pour it in? I know most here do that, it's far cheaper and easier too with no containers to dispose of.

WarpSpeed, not sure about that. Every time my oil has been changed, they thereafter offer me the plastic oil container with the remainder of the unused oil still in the container, which I think is a policy to not only offer the remaining unused oil to the customer, but also to show what type of oil they put in. I always politely refuse to receive the container, and I have never checked the capacity, but I'm guessing it's 4 or 5 liters. In any event (with this dealer at least), they don't appear to be using the large drums of oil.

I listed capacities in an earlier post.

Do you know what size liter engine you have?

Very odd practice of using plastic liter size oil containers. Possibly they just do this for the final fraction of a liter.

For instance, a 3.7 liter capacity gets 3 liters from bulk and then the plastic liter is divided 0.7 into engine and 0.3 left in container for your benefit.

As was mentioned, it is much cheaper for shops to deal in bulk and there is also a problem of residual oil being left in containers which then just gets thrown away.

Edited September 20, 2014 by ClutchClark

[WarpSpeed]

Not to mention disposing of all of those containers.. A complete waste of resources. But then again they don't do very much recycling of motor oil there either, I made several attempts while there to get some merchants and such to start up a recycling program, there is actually pretty good money in it considering you get the oil for free.

Edited September 20, 2014 by WarpSpeed