Koh Tao murders: Police chief reconfirms Myanmar migrant workers are real suspects

[Pattaya46]

ANDREW DRUMMONDS latest on this is worth a read

KEY WITNESS DRIVES A HOLE THROUGH THAI POLICE CASE'

KAO TAO MURDERS - THE 'THIRD MAN' SPEAKS UP - 'I DO NOT BELIEVE MY FRIENDS DID IT'.

Already posted several times, but who cares what he believes?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I'm keeping an open mind. It appears that the Burmese are genuine suspects if they were in the vicinity..

It was reported that they were being sought, a few days into the investigation: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411120709

But that doesn't mean that they did it. We need a transparent investigation in order to be sure that all involved are caught and prosecuted.

[andyIslandMan]

Yep and Amnesty International getting involved... http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/amnesty-calls-investigation-torture-allegations-koh-tao.html

There is going to be the most spectacular loss of face for those involved in trying to stitch up these 2 guys and help the real killer(s) off!

[Dogmatix]

Until today a key plice witness, Maung Maung, shown reversing his earlier testimony implicating his friends that he claimed was extrated via police beatings shown here by Democratic Voice of Burma (DVB).

Who is that on the far left of the photo in between the policeman and the ex-witness?

OMG it is the trusty Rohingya police interpreter and legal scholar, Mr Banana Pancake, who is alleged to have participated in beating the suspects.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Dogmatix

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yep and Amnesty International getting involved... http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/amnesty-calls-investigation-torture-allegations-koh-tao.html

There is going to be the most spectacular loss of face for those involved in trying to stitch up these 2 guys and help the real killer(s) off!

Not those wasters, they are almost as bad as Liberty and Greenpeace (to a much lesser extent)!!!

Why don't they get a real job and keep their noses out of where they are not wanted!!

[transam]

Until today a key plice witness, Maung Maung, shown reversing his earlier testimony implicating his friends that he claimed was extrated via police beatings shown here by Democratic Voice of Burma (DVB).

KO MAUNG MAUNG.jpg

Who is that on the far left of the photo in between the policeman and the ex-witness?

OMG it is the trusty Rohingya police interpreter and legal scholar, Mr Banana Pancake, who is alleged to have participated in beating the suspects.

1957977_711447318932996_6240533856951062249_n.jpg

Hmmmm, yes, perhaps a slap or two might be in order for that guy. Avoid banana stuff folk eh...

[maxme]

Well done for typing Sichon into a search engine and finding it is in NST.

Other than that, I haven't got a clue what you are on about!!!

As for the typos comment, that really has me perplexed ?????????

NST... Surat Thani... Both of these provinces are run by the same group you cherished during the protests. I wonder why their spokesperson attacked the owner of CSI LA, accusing him of being a Thaksin stooge, only there to discredit the current administration.

Now it may be far fetched but once you factor in these... Surat thani, Koh tao, illegal work force, mob family, donations... The wheels begin to turn. But could just be a figment of my imagination because surely you're interested in seeing justice for these poor souls but then again... Doesn't your lot despise RTP because they are as you say "red"? So why do you come out and defend them now I wonder?

My my!! you are a puzzling soul and you have a vivid sense of imagination.

Yes it is far fetched.

I think that the British police are the finest and most professional in the world .......and I despise them and hate all police generally. I don't know where you get my perceived love for the police from as that is far from the case!!

I'm not going to deny that I support the Democrats but what on earth is this mafia, mob, donations thing?

I am interested in seeing justice prevail, so lets just let where this goes.

South is not so much for democrats as they are for PAD. And you didnt cheer the democrats, you cheered them. You still didn't answer the question though. Do you agree with JTJ?

You clearly don't have much of a grasp of Thai politics - virtually every province in the South is Democrat (if not all) including those in the deep South!! I did cheer the Democrats with Abhisit the only decent politician out there plus the PAD are not a political party but a protest group that wanted the Shinawatra's out of politics as I did. In summary I supported both the Democrats and what PAD were doing.

Do I agree with John? I guess so, as I gave him quite a few 'likes' and am generally on the same wavelength as him regards what he has to say in his postings and so that is a qualitative yes.

I know of it quite well but they only support the democrats for some really pettyful reasons and yes the PAD was that party's paramilitary arm. They party cut its ties officially but everybody knows that story and since its manpower were mainly southerners it is not difficult to see (maybe to you though) were their loyalties lie.

You supported indoctrination of school kids so Im not surprised by your blind loyalty to a lot that gonna fall hard on this one. I asked why you now support the very ppl you associated with Thaksin and accused of murder of protesters and you deliberately tried to derail the debate by saying you trust the UK cops. So once again simple steve, why do you support the thai cops now? What changed your view on them?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Well done for typing Sichon into a search engine and finding it is in NST.

Other than that, I haven't got a clue what you are on about!!!

As for the typos comment, that really has me perplexed ?????????

NST... Surat Thani... Both of these provinces are run by the same group you cherished during the protests. I wonder why their spokesperson attacked the owner of CSI LA, accusing him of being a Thaksin stooge, only there to discredit the current administration.

Now it may be far fetched but once you factor in these... Surat thani, Koh tao, illegal work force, mob family, donations... The wheels begin to turn. But could just be a figment of my imagination because surely you're interested in seeing justice for these poor souls but then again... Doesn't your lot despise RTP because they are as you say "red"? So why do you come out and defend them now I wonder?

My my!! you are a puzzling soul and you have a vivid sense of imagination.

Yes it is far fetched.

I think that the British police are the finest and most professional in the world .......and I despise them and hate all police generally. I don't know where you get my perceived love for the police from as that is far from the case!!

I'm not going to deny that I support the Democrats but what on earth is this mafia, mob, donations thing?

I am interested in seeing justice prevail, so lets just let where this goes.

South is not so much for democrats as they are for PAD. And you didnt cheer the democrats, you cheered them. You still didn't answer the question though. Do you agree with JTJ?

You clearly don't have much of a grasp of Thai politics - virtually every province in the South is Democrat (if not all) including those in the deep South!! I did cheer the Democrats with Abhisit the only decent politician out there plus the PAD are not a political party but a protest group that wanted the Shinawatra's out of politics as I did. In summary I supported both the Democrats and what PAD were doing.

Do I agree with John? I guess so, as I gave him quite a few 'likes' and am generally on the same wavelength as him regards what he has to say in his postings and so that is a qualitative yes.

I know of it quite well but they only support the democrats for some really pettyful reasons and yes the PAD was that party's paramilitary arm. They party cut its ties officially but everybody knows that story and since its manpower were mainly southerners it is not difficult to see (maybe to you though) were their loyalties lie.

You supported indoctrination of school kids so Im not surprised by your blind loyalty to a lot that gonna fall hard on this one. I asked why you now support the very ppl you associated with Thaksin and accused of murder of protesters and you deliberately tried to derail the debate by saying you trust the UK cops. So once again simple steve, why do you support the thai cops now? What changed your view on them?

I have come to the conclusion that you are a bit of a wind up merchant that doesn't (or pretends not to) make sense!!

If not, then I think that the simple label sits perfectly on your shoulders and not mine!!

[mikiea]

I only hope for the sake of the Burmese boys that the judge in the trial will be a fair one not swayed by the RTP or prosecutors although I very much doubt it.

[mikiea]

here is the burn, they pleaded guilty, confessed, the judge does not have to convene a trial, if he chooses to accept their plea he then can move to the penalty phase, and that is that over & done.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

here is the burn, they pleaded guilty, confessed, the judge does not have to convene a trial, if he chooses to accept their plea he then can move to the penalty phase, and that is that over & done.

The 'confession' is invalid. If they were so sure that they had the culprits, there would have been no need to coerce them without legal representation. Amateurish at best. The report has been rejected by the Public Prosecutor. It clearly needs more work. Embarrassing, since they announced that it didn't need more work.

[bertty]

here is the burn, they pleaded guilty, confessed, the judge does not have to convene a trial, if he chooses to accept their plea he then can move to the penalty phase, and that is that over & done.

The 'confession' is invalid. If they were so sure that they had the culprits, there would have been no need to coerce them without legal representation. Amateurish at best. The report has been rejected by the Public Prosecutor. It clearly needs more work. Embarrassing, since they announced that it didn't need more work.

It really doesn't need anymore work. They must have worn the blade out on that hoe with the amount of digging they have done so far.

Edited October 8, 2014 by bertty

[maxme]

Well done for typing Sichon into a search engine and finding it is in NST.

Other than that, I haven't got a clue what you are on about!!!

As for the typos comment, that really has me perplexed ?????????

NST... Surat Thani... Both of these provinces are run by the same group you cherished during the protests. I wonder why their spokesperson attacked the owner of CSI LA, accusing him of being a Thaksin stooge, only there to discredit the current administration.

Now it may be far fetched but once you factor in these... Surat thani, Koh tao, illegal work force, mob family, donations... The wheels begin to turn. But could just be a figment of my imagination because surely you're interested in seeing justice for these poor souls but then again... Doesn't your lot despise RTP because they are as you say "red"? So why do you come out and defend them now I wonder?

My my!! you are a puzzling soul and you have a vivid sense of imagination.

Yes it is far fetched.

I think that the British police are the finest and most professional in the world .......and I despise them and hate all police generally. I don't know where you get my perceived love for the police from as that is far from the case!!

I'm not going to deny that I support the Democrats but what on earth is this mafia, mob, donations thing?

I am interested in seeing justice prevail, so lets just let where this goes.

South is not so much for democrats as they are for PAD. And you didnt cheer the democrats, you cheered them. You still didn't answer the question though. Do you agree with JTJ?

You clearly don't have much of a grasp of Thai politics - virtually every province in the South is Democrat (if not all) including those in the deep South!! I did cheer the Democrats with Abhisit the only decent politician out there plus the PAD are not a political party but a protest group that wanted the Shinawatra's out of politics as I did. In summary I supported both the Democrats and what PAD were doing.

Do I agree with John? I guess so, as I gave him quite a few 'likes' and am generally on the same wavelength as him regards what he has to say in his postings and so that is a qualitative yes.

I know of it quite well but they only support the democrats for some really pettyful reasons and yes the PAD was that party's paramilitary arm. They party cut its ties officially but everybody knows that story and since its manpower were mainly southerners it is not difficult to see (maybe to you though) were their loyalties lie.

You supported indoctrination of school kids so Im not surprised by your blind loyalty to a lot that gonna fall hard on this one. I asked why you now support the very ppl you associated with Thaksin and accused of murder of protesters and you deliberately tried to derail the debate by saying you trust the UK cops. So once again simple steve, why do you support the thai cops now? What changed your view on them?

I have come to the conclusion that you are a bit of a wind up merchant that doesn't (or pretends not to) make sense!!

If not, then I think that the simple label sits perfectly on your shoulders and not mine!!

Straight up question and again you refuse to answer but don't worry, you can join the penalty box along with JTJ and come back when you can come up with an answer for why you support the RTP in this case.

[englishoak]

Edited October 8, 2014 by englishoak

[smokie36]

here is the burn, they pleaded guilty, confessed, the judge does not have to convene a trial, if he chooses to accept their plea he then can move to the penalty phase, and that is that over & done.

The 'confession' is invalid. If they were so sure that they had the culprits, there would have been no need to coerce them without legal representation. Amateurish at best. The report has been rejected by the Public Prosecutor. It clearly needs more work. Embarrassing, since they announced that it didn't need more work.

Indeed it was announced as having been "perfect".

Oh dear.....

[retsdon]

This whole argument that you lot are having, is your hate against the thai police. it is not to find the real killers, who may be or not those two. Some of you don't care, i do.

I've nothing against the Thai police. My next door neighbour is RTP. My brother in law is RTP. I socialize with them regularly - they're good people. I do have a problem though with two innocents being framed for murder, and I do have a problem with murderers walking free on account of their power and influence. And as for caring, you're right. I care less about the sensitivities of the murder victims families than I do about the lives of the hapless scapegoats, or the moral health of the country in which my children will probably live out their lives.

It's a matter of priorities.

[smokie36]

@maxme......Steve has shown his colours with his dismissal of Amnesty.....of course there should be no international body looking after the rights of those without representation....the poor or those denied fair representation.

You are not debating with a fair and rational individual.

[smokie36]

This whole argument that you lot are having, is your hate against the thai police. it is not to find the real killers, who may be or not those two. Some of you don't care, i do.

I've nothing against the Thai police. My next door neighbour is RTP. My brother in law is RTP. I socialize with them regularly - they're good people. I do have a problem though with two innocents being framed for murder, and I do have a problem with murderers walking free on account of their power and influence. And as for caring, you're right. I care less about the sensitivities of the murder victims families than I do about the lives of the hapless scapegoats, or the moral health of the country in which my children will probably live out their lives.

It's a matter of priorities.

To me the RTP should be working out exactly what happened that night....not just on the beach but the sequence of events surrounding it.

[sabaitoo]

I am not British ( God forbid ) but I have to respect Mark Kents diplomacy, first he do not show up to praise the RTP as announced and now this :

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/519810732074881024/photo/1

[gwenvo]

Bananaman doesn't look happy

[retsdon]

Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

By Coconuts Bangkok October 7, 2014 / 22:29 ICT

Two migrant workers from Myanmar recanted their confessions today, telling a lawyer from the Burmese embassy they did not kill David Miller and Hannah Witheridge last month on Koh Tao.

Attorney Aung Myo Thant from the Burmese Embassy made his comments after meeting with the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, who Thai police said had confessed to the crime.

In Burmese media reports, the lawyer said the two men told him they only confessed because they were forced to under torture.

"They told me that they were on the beach that night drinking and singing songs, he said. They said they didn't do it, that the Thai police (along with their Burmese-Thai translator) beat them until they confessed to something they didn't do. They're pleading with the Burmese government to look into the case and find out the truth. They were a really pitiful sight. Their bodies had all sorts of bruises. I have already reported all that I have seen today to my government."

Aung Myo Thant characterized it as a set up that wasnt based on evidence.

He added that he was denied access to a third suspect originally detained, Maung Maung, because police said he is a crucial witness they do not want interference with.

Meanwhile Thai police authorities today said theyd met with Myanmar representatives who were satisfied with the results of their investigation.

UPDATED: Story was updated to reflect full names of suspects as reported by Burmese media.

Source: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

"they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe"

If you've seen the victims wounds you'd know this doesn't add up.

And if you knew about confessions, criminals often (most of the time) down play what they did ... just as they stated they didn't intend to kill them.

You see to me, these guys confessions suggest an entirely different conclusion. It's not what they say, it's what they didn't say. They say they bashed the victims a couple of times with the blunt end of a hoe. They did it because they were drunk. They didn't mean to kill the victims. Let's accept all of that.

So how about this. They did all of the above because they joined in the attack/ fight, encouraged to do so by someone they knew, who then pursued the attack to its murderous conclusion - inflicting the stab wounds and perpetrating the rape. These boys feel remorse for having been party to the initial assault, and so are soft to take the murder rap. The police know all this, and because they drunkenly got involved in the assault, the cops don't feel that it is complete innocents that are being put in the frame. The cops convince these guys that, as participants in the initial assault, they're as guilty as anyone, but there is no benefit in having others (young men with a bright future in front of them) go down for it, etc, etc. Consequently a certain person or persons get to be airbrushed out of the picture. Cut and dried, and quite neat if the goal is to clear the case.

[retsdon]

This whole argument that you lot are having, is your hate against the thai police. it is not to find the real killers, who may be or not those two. Some of you don't care, i do.

I've nothing against the Thai police. My next door neighbour is RTP. My brother in law is RTP. I socialize with them regularly - they're good people. I do have a problem though with two innocents being framed for murder, and I do have a problem with murderers walking free on account of their power and influence. And as for caring, you're right. I care less about the sensitivities of the murder victims families than I do about the lives of the hapless scapegoats, or the moral health of the country in which my children will probably live out their lives.

It's a matter of priorities.

To me the RTP should be working out exactly what happened that night....not just on the beach but the sequence of events surrounding it.

I don't mind betting the RTP know full-well exactly what happened that night. The same as they knew full-well what happened when Duang Chalerm shot the off-duty cop in the nightclub, or the Red Bull heir damaged his Ferrari. But the police's job in Thailand is to take orders and do what they're told.

[Dogmatix]

here is the burn, they pleaded guilty, confessed, the judge does not have to convene a trial, if he chooses to accept their plea he then can move to the penalty phase, and that is that over & done.

In other countries judges have discretion to reject guilty pleas and move to trial, although this is most common in the US when judges reject plea deals that have been pre-arranged between prosecution and defence. It can happen in other jurisdictions too, if the judge sees some discrepancy in the accused's acceptance of responsibility for the crime, e.g. I suppose I did it but I was so drunk or drugged that I can't really remember. In Thailand it is unlikely in a case where the PM and police chief have extolled the perfection of an investigation that looks highly imperfect to most everyone else.

Therefore you are right, the case would move to the penalty phase, if the accused maintain their confessions and plead guilty. They have nothing much to plea bargain with and Thai courts don't recognise US style plea bargains, so that they can't gain much from pleading guilty. It would only be different if they did it and can implicate a third killer that the police will not otherwise catch.

[safirees]

No I didnt !

Someone has to cough a lot of money to clean all this up .

The headman has a lot of responsibility as he controls most of everything on KT .

He has to protect tourism and his own family too , his own son may of not actually been involved ( remember he fled by private boat early the next day ) but even if innocent his dad has to clean this up , or no more income , #1 for all the authorities too

Yes a lot of money more them people think and his son was involved plus other members of family, their a lot of people who know the truth and are to scare to tell what they know.

[traveller 2020]

Sean still hasn't surfaced , wonder if he was $$ out ???? What a brave , honourable , noble and upstanding example of a gentleman and fine human being he is ! Should be invited to Buckingham Palace for high tea . What a jolly good fellow and a plum chappy !

[traveller 2020]

His family must be proud !

[littlebw]

you expect Sean to come on here , internet and media? Would you? I certainly wouldnt, i would tell the UK police all i know and let them sort it out

He ( nor any witnesses who have left the island) will not have been in touch with the RTP after leaving Thailand due to not trusting them but

theres no doubt that he ( nor any witnesses who have left the island) will have been in touch with the UK police

Thing with the UK police is that they dont spout any evidence off at all and tell all them who have give evidence not to repeat to anyone else at all

As this unfolds we will hear more later if the witness statements {UK} dont match any evidence that the RTP are putting out

Thats why we havent heard from Sean and Hannah / David s co travellers etc

Edited October 8, 2014 by littlebw

[SteveFong]

Bananaman doesn't look happy

One thing about this picture that stands out, the RED BULL shirt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 or, 5555555555555555

[SteveFong]

you expect Sean to come on here , internet and media? Would you? I certainly wouldnt, i would tell the UK police all i know and let them sort it out

He ( nor any witnesses who have left the island) will not have been in touch with the RTP after leaving Thailand due to not trusting them but

theres no doubt that he ( nor any witnesses who have left the island) will have been in touch with the UK police

Thing with the UK police is that they dont spout any evidence off at all and tell all them who have give evidence not to repeat to anyone else at all

As this unfolds we will hear more later if the witness statements {UK} dont match any evidence that the RTP are putting out

Thats why we havent heard from Sean and Hannah / David s co travellers etc

I believe Sean reads these threads every day and may even have a new posting name,

Hannah' and David's friends have probably never heard of Thai Visa

[englishoak]

Bananaman doesn't look happy

One thing about this picture that stands out, the RED BULL shirt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 or, 5555555555555555

Hmmm besides the red bull tshirt .... look whos in the centre in cream looking at him..... our old friend the roti selling translator.

You couldnt make this s**t up.

Edited October 8, 2014 by englishoak