Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[bertty]

BREAKING NEWS ****************

Finger prints have been found on the hoe !! Now its just a case of getting the judge to accept a hoe and a dust pan are identical.

[ClutchClark]

Its very close. I am reminded that they, David and Hanna left the AC bar together. Perhaps the only change I would make is they were lured to the spot together and he was killed before they even began to rape her but she certainly saw him die.

When I wrote that I was unaware of Seans supposed past of date rape and helping Mon with this before. SteveFong has suggested maybe between 3-5 people raped Hanna. I believe that's how many probably set to David first. We all know how Thais like to fight 5 to 1 and never 1 on 1.

I doubt Sean will ever speak up. Not now that his date rape activities have been exposed. Perhaps he has been paid off or just happy to be put with his life.Not sure now if Sean is guilty of rape or not. He probably did but they couldn't just finger him as he would have named the others and what then. All DNA tested and all guilty. Better to ether kill him or have him run out of town shit scared never to talk again. If all he did was help lure then I think he would talk but his silence tells me he probably raped her but didn't kill her.

I think u can put a line thru the Thai DNA testing. Was it ever even done. I doubt it. Its said Mon had scratches on him so his DNA would likely be under Hanna's finger nails. Let's face it, the bottom line is if you had nothing to hide and wanted to clear your name u would be screaming the house down to be checked. Sadly Mon and co refused which clearly makes them as guilty as sin. There is no other reason to not b tested.

I believe the condom was probably unrolled and pushed/ rubbed inside Hanna just to make the story more confusing hence no DNA inside.

The only way I would ever allow my DNA to be tested is by court order.

Its a complete invasion of privacy...atleast to most Americans.

Except when you get arrested you have to give DNA.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-03/routine-dna-testing-after-arrest-upheld-by-u-s-supreme-court.html

America is a totalitarian, police state that is run on behalf of corporations you have no privacy.

Have no privacy? Police State? And you type this in Thailand? The irony of your claim seems to have evaded you.

And I hope you are right about criminals having to supply DNA. You see, a convicted criminal loses his rights, thats part of the deal.

[JoeLing]

So they admitted having sex with her , they admitted they did the crime to a human right official...I'm still confused why so many people still defend them ??

Maybe because those Thai Human Rights people should expose human rights issues?

They are not here to investigate if the "confessions" were right or wrong but how

they were obtained and of course, many other human rights issues relating to this crime.

(And then, as a government agency, do everything possible to whitewash the actions of their sponsors and employers)

So no surprise then the findings of a Thai Human Rights Commision would read like this:

<quote> ... both suspects bore wounds as a result of what they claimed was "the police not treating them properly"<end quote>

<quote> "However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes,"<end quote>

Edited October 9, 2014 by JoeLing

[transam]

So they admitted having sex with her , they admitted they did the crime to a human right official...I'm still confused why so many people still defend them ??

Where have they admitted having sex with her?

Meanwhile, Parinya Sirisarakarn, a member of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), yesterday gave new information about forensic evidence and claims made by the two suspects - Maung Saw and Maung Win - whom he had met.

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Prosecutors-seek-changes-30245052.html 09 OCT 2014

Thanks, so all that should need to be done is a DNA test in the UK which i presume is part of the procedure, then if it matches stone the bstrds .... and if it doesnt let them go.

It could match, BUT, perhaps others were involved and perhaps these others did the killing...

Remember, other DNA was present, and oddly others have not been tested for DNA......

[Tatsujin]

Declaring ones innocence does not make one innocent.

Not sure about other countries but the US is chock full of prisoners who declare their innocence.

Not saying they did it not saying they didn't.

Only saying recanting a confession is not proof either way.

Since the possibility continues to exist that they did commit this horrendous crime, I am not going to extend my sympathy to them.

I will leave that to the posters here who really want to see a Thai convicted.

I don't give a toss "where" the killers are from, as long as the "real" killers are indeed caught, tried and convicted and it's all aboveboard.

At this point in time, I have absolutely zero confidence that the RTP are going to be able to achieve that without bringing in outside assistance.

And I still want to know why those "influential persons" and their families were never DNA tested, and what happened to the 1 million baht they offered in payment for just such an outcome . . .

[Suriya4]

So they admitted having sex with her , they admitted they did the crime to a human right official...I'm still confused why so many people still defend them ??

Where have they admitted having sex with her?

Meanwhile, Parinya Sirisarakarn, a member of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), yesterday gave new information about forensic evidence and claims made by the two suspects - Maung Saw and Maung Win - whom he had met.

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Prosecutors-seek-changes-30245052.html 09 OCT 2014

Thanks, so all that should need to be done is a DNA test in the UK which i presume is part of the procedure, then if it matches stone the bstrds .... and if it doesnt let them go.

I am sure you will find all three dna INSIDE the same condoms. 2 Burmese and 1 English.

That is my theory.

[ClutchClark]

BREAKING NEWS ****************

Finger prints have been found on the hoe !! Now its just a case of getting the judge to accept a hoe and a dust pan are identical.

I don't understand your post. A dust pan and a hoe?

[hansgruber]

Sperm found on the outside of condoms?

Irish condoms.

Sent from my LG-D858

[bertty]

BREAKING NEWS ****************

Finger prints have been found on the hoe !! Now its just a case of getting the judge to accept a hoe and a dust pan are identical.

I don't understand your post. A dust pan and a hoe?

No somehow I didn't think you would.

Posted on another thread....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11150569/Thai-murder-suspects-retract-confessions.html

Oh lordy The sky is falling.

[mcm991]

So they admitted having sex with her , they admitted they did the crime to a human right official...I'm still confused why so many people still defend them ??

Maybe because those Thai Human Rights people should expose human rights issues?

They are not here to investigate if the "confessions" were right or wrong but how

they were obtained and of course, many other human rights issues relating to this crime.

(And then, as a government agency, do everything possible to whitewash the actions of their sponsors and employers)

So no surprise then the findings of a Thai Human Rights Commision would read like this:

<quote> ... both suspects bore wounds as a result of what they claimed was "the police not treating them properly"<end quote>

<quote> "However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes,"<end quote>

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/05/13/thailand-replace-flawed-rights-panel

In 2007, Parinya was named in a commission investigation as responsible for causing environmental damage in Thailand's northeastern region, where he holds a license to extract salt. Parinya's lack of commitment to promoting universal human rights was evident in an oral presentation to the Thai Senate in which he dismissed "Western criticisms of Burma" as "foreign interference" in domestic affairs. In that light, if made a commissioner, he stated that he would not welcome international intervention on human rights issues in Thailand.

Edited October 9, 2014 by mcm991

[JLCrab]

The Thai Penal Code TITLE IX OFFENCE RELATING TO SEXUALITY (English translation) only describes sexual intercourse against a woman's will. It does not suggest that there must be a completion and penetration is sufficient. Thus there can legally be rape without any DNA.

[Rykbanlor]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

[ClutchClark]

BREAKING NEWS ****************

Finger prints have been found on the hoe !! Now its just a case of getting the judge to accept a hoe and a dust pan are identical.

I don't understand your post. A dust pan and a hoe?

No somehow I didn't think you would.

Posted on another thread....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11150569/Thai-murder-suspects-retract-confessions.html

Oh lordy The sky is falling.

I read the entire article and never saw mention of either a dustpan or a hoe so I guess you were making some comedy? Comedy about a gruesome double murder and possible wrongful prosecution of two men, surely you are not finding anything humorous in that?

[Fat Haggis]

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms."

Have you heard of any rapist using condoms?

Yes quite often those people who participate in date rapes use them to prevent any DNA left inside their victim, that included Doctors and Dentists who have drugged their victims and performed sex acts on them.

[transam]

BREAKING NEWS ****************

Finger prints have been found on the hoe !! Now its just a case of getting the judge to accept a hoe and a dust pan are identical.

I don't understand your post. A dust pan and a hoe?

No somehow I didn't think you would.

Posted on another thread....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11150569/Thai-murder-suspects-retract-confessions.html

Oh lordy The sky is falling.

I read the entire article and never saw mention of either a dustpan or a hoe so I guess you were making some comedy? Comedy about a gruesome double murder and possible wrongful prosecution of two men, surely you are not finding anything humorous in that?

The supposed "perps" reenactment used a pan.............

[ClutchClark]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

[ClutchClark]

No somehow I didn't think you would.

Posted on another thread....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11150569/Thai-murder-suspects-retract-confessions.html

Oh lordy The sky is falling.

I read the entire article and never saw mention of either a dustpan or a hoe so I guess you were making some comedy? Comedy about a gruesome double murder and possible wrongful prosecution of two men, surely you are not finding anything humorous in that?

The supposed "perps" reenactment used a pan.............

Thank you.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[wabothai]

If their is a tape, we all want to hear it. If not we all asume you are lying.

[bertty]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

[jdinasia]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Do you think he was speaking English? Or that it was a translation?

[ClutchClark]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

You can read through every post I have made and you will not find one time where I suggested the DNA evidence can or should be trusted in the arrest or identification of anyone--including the two Burmese.

That is what I have been attempting to tell everyone here who keeps clamoring about testing the Mon family.

Thanks for finally listening.

[jdinasia]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Your assumptions regarding admissibility are not correct.

The confessions, reiterated in this article plus the evidence seals the fate of these 2 men.

[Rykbanlor]

stay on point

[bertty]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

You can read through every post I have made and you will not find one time where I suggested the DNA evidence can or should be trusted in the arrest or identification of anyone--including the two Burmese.

That is what I have been attempting to tell everyone here who keeps clamoring about testing the Mon family.

Thanks for finally listening.

I must apologise to you Mr. Clark I must have mistaken you for another poster! I thought you were one of the guys who have insisted every line uttered has been true, no matter how many times it has been changed.

Edited October 9, 2014 by bertty

[Rykbanlor]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Your assumptions regarding admissibility are not correct.

The confessions, reiterated in this article plus the evidence seals the fate of these 2 men.

JDinasia, you feel the case against the Burmen is watertight?

[jdinasia]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

Was that DNA collected? If not then there is your answer.

[jdinasia]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Your assumptions regarding admissibility are not correct.

The confessions, reiterated in this article plus the evidence seals the fate of these 2 men.

JDinasia, you feel the case against the Burmen is watertight?

If the HRC rep in this article is being honest then yes. The thing is, it goes to trial. The rantings of conspiracy theorists changes nothing.

[jdinasia]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, director-general of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, told the Manager news agency that police did not understand the investigation in the bludgeoning death of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller required a medical examiner.

"The weak point (in the investigation) is that police do not understand that the case requires a forensic pathologist, so the officers who collected evidence did not call in one from Surat Thani Hospital,

By doing all crime-scene and victim investigation themselves, police contradicted the principles of forensic science, she added.

STOP HARPING ON ABOUT DNA, its a walk up the garden path. Of course Police have tried to hang their case on DNA and confessions. What a mess

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

Was that DNA collected? If not then there is your answer.

Talking of idiots following every line to be true... Right on cue.

No their DNA hasn't been taken. Do you now believe if it does get taken it will be different from what it was at the time of the murders ?

I answered the question that was asked.

Please refrain from the ad hominem attacks.

[Rykbanlor]

If the HRC rep in this article is being honest then yes. The thing is, it goes to trial. The rantings of conspiracy theorists changes nothing.

It may well go to trial. I woudn't call Dr Pornthip a conspiracy theorist though. Step aside from the theories then. Do you have faith in the integrity of the RTP on this case and in general. Do you feel in anyway they may have earned any doubt cast upon them?

[greenchair]

Hey pornthip is come in. She says it's a great big ---- --. Hope she investigates. She would be the only one in Thailand that could sort this.