Thai PM plays down British offer of help in beach murder probe

[englishoak]

the P.M might feel he's being right you know, if he think the investigators did a great job why not tell the world ?

Don't take this the wrong way but, thats one hack of a naive thing to say.

[Sheryl]

Some uncivil/baiting posts have been removed.

[Benmart]

"Anyone can come to Thailand, but don't forget that what is our issue, is our issue"

Perhaps he can repeat this and decline outside assistance when the country suffers its next Tsunami or other disaster.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

Are you crazy? This man made the biggest crime in Thailand, he took over the power with weapons, he not respect a elected goverment, he not respect the constitution! He was the Army chief in one of the most corrupted countrys in the world, how he get this position? He and hes family they have assests what are 50 times more what they could ever earned in their job, even when counting they never spent any Baht or ever payed any tax.

Do you think this guy is Ghandi?

This is a criminal and one day he and the other guys from the junta will sit in prison for what they made

As I thought, most of this is political and just Thailand haters who are trying to use the tragic case of the murdered young British couple as a means to discredit the Thai Government and Thailand.

I would like to ask; are you Thai? Or what nationality are you? Do you stay in Thailand? What are your politics? And why do you bear such grievances against Thailand and in what ways does it affect you? Or in other words; what`s your problem?

You can try to convince yourself of this. But I don't think that it is at all political. I think that you will find that very many here were supportive of the General. Especially the stand on corruption. But not many believe it now.

It really looks like an uncivilised shambles. Must be embarrassing for the good Thai people. Possibly much the same as how we felt when we had Tony Blair spouting a load when he was PM. Embarrassing having him speak for the general public.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Jiu-Jitsu

[kaobang]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=718343691576692&set=vb.596740650403664&type=2&theater

[Dogmatix]

Excerpt from a curious interview of Sondhi Limtrakul, owner of The Manager media group gleaned from CSI LA.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=718343691576692

He seems to make some pretty hard hitting allegations, if I understood all correctly (the audio is a bit patchy in places). He says Koh Tao is a very small island and every one there knows who did it but dare not say because of their influence which reaches to high places in Bangkok. If I am not mistaken, Sondhi seems to implicate the junta directly. I think I read a post somewhere else making similar allegations that KT mafia had links into the junta but can't remember where. All shocking allegations that cannot possibly be true . There was also something about Sean being squared away by local police as a condition of being allowed to leave the island in one piece after his run in with influential persons.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Dogmatix

[tingtongtourist]

That statement is rather telling and almost threat-like:

"Anyone can come to Thailand, but don't forget that what is our issue, is our issue," he said of British offer of help.

Can you imagine the UK allowing Thai help in their country?

Or what about the US lol

If another country wanted to see the evidence they would be welcome in the US. Can't say about the UK. But the investigation would be transparent, expertly done, and there would be nothing to hide.

ALL of the evidence would also become public at the trial.

This is about something to hide and it's being hidden from Burma who is complaining and from the UK who is complaining. If the Thais really have proof they need to show the world because they are quickly losing all credibility. Period.

Fair point.

I feel the dictators have to refuse help - they know the police have framed two innocent but can't turn around now, it would be such a loss of face.

Actually, according to the news, 4 days after the murder, RTP was looking in bkk for the son of a local business owner where the victims spent the night with friends. Then they suddenly changed direction and started looking for scapegoats. Not sure if this change was independently taken by RTP or was ordered by a pm that is seeing tourism fall over 10% yoy for its martial law and unacceptable coup.

unnacceptable in a farangs eyes doesnt really count though does it?

One could say the country was in real trouble under Yinluck and protests and now seems a little more stable?

Anyway how is the affect on tourism going to differ if theyd arrested a thai national or the burmese??

How can you trust anything if they tell you the evidence points one way but still people will not believe?

If they were that bad why would the police have even investigated the hi-so son in the first place?

I for one think most tourists never even heard of this case. No one i talk to here in Australia ever heard of it..just the thavisa folk and people who have a longer term interest in Thailand.

I cant understand the reasoning on here, always thinking the worst of Thai system

IF things ever did change, it wouldnt be much good anyway as the attitudes on here would never change.

Its like many things western..you make some mistake in your past and still have the reputation for it 20 years later

[spidermike007]

General, I've trusted you up to now.

You are making me to change my mind about your way of thinking and acting.

Be the man that you appeared to be at the beginning.

Don't let people stop trusting you and your judgement.

Are you crazy? This man made the biggest crime in Thailand, he took over the power with weapons, he not respect a elected goverment, he not respect the constitution! He was the Army chief in one of the most corrupted countrys in the world, how he get this position? He and hes family they have assests what are 50 times more what they could ever earned in their job, even when counting they never spent any Baht or ever payed any tax.

Do you think this guy is Ghandi?

This is a criminal and one day he and the other guys from the junta will sit in prison for what they made

As I thought, most of this is political and just Thailand haters who are trying to use the tragic case of the murdered young British couple as a means to discredit the Thai Government and Thailand.

I would like to ask; are you Thai? Or what nationality are you? Do you stay in Thailand? What are your politics? And why do you bear such grievances against Thailand and in what ways does it affect you? Or in other words; what`s your problem?

You can try to convince yourself of this. But I don't think that it is at all political. I think that you will find that very many here were supportive of the General. Especially the stand on corruption. But not many believe it now.

It really looks like an uncivilised shambles. Must be embarrassing for the good Thai people. Possibly much the same as how we felt when we had Tony Blair spouting a load when he was PM. Embarrassing having him speak for the general public.

So correct. He has gone from seeming like a genuine man, who was honorable, unaffected by the elites, and someone who genuinely cared about seeing his country improve, to just an administrator who says the wrong and inappropriate thing nearly every chance he is given. In addition he now has the image of being highly compromised, of not wanting to upset the Apple cart on any meaningful level, nor the status quo, nor wanting to pursue those that are above the law, like the 5 families of Tao. What a disappointment for millions of Thais, and tens of millions of people worldwide, who like many of us really love this country, and wanted to see nothing but improvement and progress here. Edited October 16, 2014 by spidermike007

[phuketandsee]

Excerpt from a curious interview of Sondhi Limtrakul, owner of The Manager media group gleaned from CSI LA.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=718343691576692

He seems to make some pretty hard hitting allegations, if I understood all correctly (the audio is a bit patchy in places). He says Koh Tao is a very small island and every one there knows who did it but dare not say because of their influence which reaches to high places in Bangkok. If I am not mistaken, Sondhi seems to implicate the junta directly. I think I read a post somewhere else making similar allegations that KT mafia had links into the junta but can't remember where. All shocking allegations that cannot possibly be true . There was also something about Sean being squared away by local police as a condition of being allowed to leave the island in one piece after his run in with influential persons.

The link is the influential politician in Surathani

[NeverSure]

Oh YES. In the US the accused have a right to an attorney at government expense if they can't afford one. The defense attorney would have a right to "discovery" meaning a right to see all of the evidence before the trial. The defense would have a RIGHT to independent expert witnesses who would have a RIGHT to samples of the evidence for independent testing.

The defense attorney would have the RIGHT to determine who his expert and independent investigators and witnesses would be, and if he had offers from places with more expertise than he could muster, he could use them.

He could drill down as far as needed and the government would have to cough up anything he wanted before trial.

It's called a right to discovery.

Thailand's system STINKS of secrecy and corruption.

But what if for example a French couple were murdered in the USA? And then 2 poor illegal immigrant Mexicans were arrested and charged with their murders, the police claiming they have all the evidence against them. And then the French Government gives out a hint that they think the United States police force has a dubious reputation or are incompetent and only charged the Mexicans to save face as a cover up for something and probably would not trust the evidence even if the USA police were completely open with it, and then asks if it can send in their own French detectives to investigate the case? How do you think the United States government would respond to that?

You don't understand. This where I think the Thai government is so bad.

The French wouldn't need or want to go to the US government. They'd go to the defense attorney directly. The defense attorney can accept help from anyone and what the police have must be given to the defense for independent investigation. The defense has a right to depose the suspects under oath before trial. He has a right to depose any witnesses. The depositions are under oath and if the testimony at trial differs from that at the deposition the defense can impeach the witness.

The defense attorney is allowed to pay for or accept any help he can get, of his own choosing. It's all totally transparent. After the trial, anyone can buy a complete transcript of the whole case, just paying for the printing.

Thailands system is archaic, secret, and stinks of corruption.

Edited October 16, 2014 by NeverSure

[marcusd]

We can all speak with our wallets and move

[jdinasia]

We can all speak with our wallets and move

Most replying to these threads are apparently not in Thailand. Where do you suggest that they move?

[Docno]

Are you crazy? This man made the biggest crime in Thailand, he took over the power with weapons, he not respect a elected goverment, he not respect the constitution! He was the Army chief in one of the most corrupted countrys in the world, how he get this position? He and hes family they have assests what are 50 times more what they could ever earned in their job, even when counting they never spent any Baht or ever payed any tax.

Do you think this guy is Ghandi?

This is a criminal and one day he and the other guys from the junta will sit in prison for what they made

As I thought, most of this is political and just Thailand haters who are trying to use the tragic case of the murdered young British couple as a means to discredit the Thai Government and Thailand.

I would like to ask; are you Thai? Or what nationality are you? Do you stay in Thailand? What are your politics? And why do you bear such grievances against Thailand and in what ways does it affect you? Or in other words; what`s your problem?

You can try to convince yourself of this. But I don't think that it is at all political. I think that you will find that very many here were supportive of the General. Especially the stand on corruption. But not many believe it now.

It really looks like an uncivilised shambles. Must be embarrassing for the good Thai people. Possibly much the same as how we felt when we had Tony Blair spouting a load when he was PM. Embarrassing having him speak for the general public.

So correct. He has gone from seeming like a genuine man, who was honorable, unaffected by the elites, and someone who genuinely cared about seeing his country improve, to just an administrator who says the wrong and inappropriate thing nearly every chance he is given. In addition he now has the image of being highly compromised, of not wanting to upset the Apple cart on any meaningful level, nor the status quo, nor wanting to pursue those that are above the law, like the 5 families of Tao. What a disappointment for millions of Thais, and tens of millions of people worldwide, who like many of us really love this country, and wanted to see nothing but improvement and progress here.

Wow - you really believed that the top military brass was "unaffected by the elites"?? Just look at the professional background of the president of the privy council. That should be your first clue as to the nature of things. The elite of the military is part of the nation's elite, plain and simple.

[spidermike007]

Are you crazy? This man made the biggest crime in Thailand, he took over the power with weapons, he not respect a elected goverment, he not respect the constitution! He was the Army chief in one of the most corrupted countrys in the world, how he get this position? He and hes family they have assests what are 50 times more what they could ever earned in their job, even when counting they never spent any Baht or ever payed any tax.

Do you think this guy is Ghandi?

This is a criminal and one day he and the other guys from the junta will sit in prison for what they made

As I thought, most of this is political and just Thailand haters who are trying to use the tragic case of the murdered young British couple as a means to discredit the Thai Government and Thailand.

I would like to ask; are you Thai? Or what nationality are you? Do you stay in Thailand? What are your politics? And why do you bear such grievances against Thailand and in what ways does it affect you? Or in other words; what`s your problem?

You can try to convince yourself of this. But I don't think that it is at all political. I think that you will find that very many here were supportive of the General. Especially the stand on corruption. But not many believe it now.

It really looks like an uncivilised shambles. Must be embarrassing for the good Thai people. Possibly much the same as how we felt when we had Tony Blair spouting a load when he was PM. Embarrassing having him speak for the general public.

So correct. He has gone from seeming like a genuine man, who was honorable, unaffected by the elites, and someone who genuinely cared about seeing his country improve, to just an administrator who says the wrong and inappropriate thing nearly every chance he is given. In addition he now has the image of being highly compromised, of not wanting to upset the Apple cart on any meaningful level, nor the status quo, nor wanting to pursue those that are above the law, like the 5 families of Tao. What a disappointment for millions of Thais, and tens of millions of people worldwide, who like many of us really love this country, and wanted to see nothing but improvement and progress here.

Wow - you really believed that the top military brass was "unaffected by the elites"?? Just look at the professional background of the president of the privy council. That should be your first clue as to the nature of things. The elite of the military is part of the nation's elite, plain and simple.

It is quite obvious you could not possibly be more correct. I was being naive, and too hopeful. Figured with all the power they have, that they have no need to bow down to anybody. Wrong. They can, they will, and they are bowing down to the elites, the powerful, the wealthy, and the connected ones. What a shame. What a charade.

[englishoak]

Things have now changed a bit

UK police to travel to Thailand to probe tourist murders

Diplomatic sources said Thailand's military ruler accepted the sending of a delegation to investigate the killing of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller when pressed on the issue by David Cameron during their summit meeting.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10-17/police-to-examine-dna-and-duress-claims-in-thai-case/

Edited October 17, 2014 by englishoak

[lung]

wich one to trust ??

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Foreign-investigators-barred-from-Thailand-police--30245741.html

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-10-17/uk-police-to-travel-to-thailand-to-probe-tourist-murders/

[englishoak]

wich one to trust ??

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Foreign-investigators-barred-from-Thailand-police--30245741.html

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-10-17/uk-police-to-travel-to-thailand-to-probe-tourist-murders/

Since ITV is using a diplomatic source vs the Nation using the RTP and both have their reputations on the line ?.............. gee thats a hard call

[lung]

http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-29668785

[SteveFong]

Clearly,

his hand has been forced

Let's not judge him, he simply may not know what is really going on

it wouldnt be the first time the guy at the top was screwed over by underlings

et tu Brute?

[ScubaPhuket]

Clearly,

his hand has been forced

Let's not judge him, he simply may not know what is really going on

it wouldnt be the first time the guy at the top was screwed over by underlings

et tu Brute?

I agree with this. The general may be placing too much trust in his countrymen & police force thro his own personal nationally controlled ideas. Don't forget that he is also a victim of this system.

[laobali]

Well done all those whose efforts have finally got this mess under international scrutiny. Let's hope for justice at least once.

[Docno]

Clearly,

his hand has been forced

Let's not judge him, he simply may not know what is really going on

it wouldnt be the first time the guy at the top was screwed over by underlings

et tu Brute?

I agree with this. The general may be placing too much trust in his countrymen & police force thro his own personal nationally controlled ideas. Don't forget that he is also a victim of this system.

I won't completely discount the possibility that he has been naive and overly trusting about things. But this also the same person who has been 'campaigning' against corruption and everything else that he thinks might conceivably damage the country. That there is corruption in the RTP is known to every Thai over the age of 10. So it's hard to understand why he would expect this case to be different, especially if so-called 'influential persons' are really involved (as per rumours from the very start). At the very least, he could have sent some of his own people down at the first sign of 'trouble' to keep an eye on things--take a national perspective, if you will--to make sure this doesn't go off the rails. [And yes, murders happen every day, but once this one took off in the media, it was time to put the whole thing under the microscope].

[SteveFong]

Well, he sure has been given a chance to bring out the guillotine

[T_Dog]

Clearly,

his hand has been forced

Let's not judge him, he simply may not know what is really going on

it wouldnt be the first time the guy at the top was screwed over by underlings

et tu Brute?

I agree with this. The general may be placing too much trust in his countrymen & police force thro his own personal nationally controlled ideas. Don't forget that he is also a victim of this system.

I won't completely discount the possibility that he has been naive and overly trusting about things. But this also the same person who has been 'campaigning' against corruption and everything else that he thinks might conceivably damage the country. That there is corruption in the RTP is known to every Thai over the age of 10. So it's hard to understand why he would expect this case to be different, especially if so-called 'influential persons' are really involved (as per rumours from the very start). At the very least, he could have sent some of his own people down at the first sign of 'trouble' to keep an eye on things--take a national perspective, if you will--to make sure this doesn't go off the rails. [And yes, murders happen every day, but once this one took off in the media, it was time to put the whole thing under the microscope].

What gets the public eye might be totally different than what is really going on, especially in Thailand. It doesn't take much research to find the names of those chummy with each other. Check out this article in The Diplomat website:

http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/

[laobali]

Clearly,

his hand has been forced

Let's not judge him, he simply may not know what is really going on

it wouldnt be the first time the guy at the top was screwed over by underlings

et tu Brute?

I agree with this. The general may be placing too much trust in his countrymen & police force thro his own personal nationally controlled ideas. Don't forget that he is also a victim of this system.

I won't completely discount the possibility that he has been naive and overly trusting about things. But this also the same person who has been 'campaigning' against corruption and everything else that he thinks might conceivably damage the country. That there is corruption in the RTP is known to every Thai over the age of 10. So it's hard to understand why he would expect this case to be different, especially if so-called 'influential persons' are really involved (as per rumours from the very start). At the very least, he could have sent some of his own people down at the first sign of 'trouble' to keep an eye on things--take a national perspective, if you will--to make sure this doesn't go off the rails. [And yes, murders happen every day, but once this one took off in the media, it was time to put the whole thing under the microscope].

What gets the public eye might be totally different than what is really going on, especially in Thailand. It doesn't take much research to find the names of those chummy with each other. Check out this article in The Diplomat website:

http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/

Interesting article, especially the final paragraphst:

The filthy politics à la [ ] is also indicative of an anxiety hidden in the mind of the army and its supporters in the [ ]. Undoubtedly, the 22 May coup was not meant to tackle the so-called corruption problem, since the coup makers themselves are not free from corrupt practices. But the coup was staged in order to ensure that representatives of the [ ] would be able to take control of politics at the critical [ ] transition. The stakes are too high to allow Thaksin proxies to be in charge at this point in time. Thus, they had to be eliminated. Corruption just happened to be the perfect excuse to legitimize the decision to topple the Thaksin-backed regime.

But the case of [ ] exposed the fact that military and political officials are equally sullied in corruption in Thailand. The only difference is that under military rule, requests for transparency and good governance often fall on deft ears.

Maybe he meant deaf ears, but I have seen some that can waggle theirs.

Deft: Skilful in physical movements; especially of the hands

[T_Dog]

^

Good catch, and I never caught that as I read it as "deaf" which would be the best fit for the article. There is a lot of good information out there and a picture of a transfer of power emerges when you start to merge them all. It seems only the color of corruption has changed. Here is another article for the information bunker.

http://thaitribune.org/en/hot-issue/5886

[phuketandsee]

Duplicate post

Edited October 18, 2014 by phuketandsee

[phuketandsee]

"See, mine's much bigger"

[changnaam]

You were warned general. You can feed the press and public in your own country but we all know it did not go down as you said.

[bigjules007]

I hope the British, although " observing" will insist on making the people who have not as yet submitted DNA, submit there DNA.