Koh Tao murders: Father swears his son is innocent

[Rykbanlor]

Look into the eyes of this ice cold mother<Deleted!> - I'd trust him as far as I could thrown a piano! And I think one of his famous garden tools is the hoe...

Catweazle where did the pic of the man with the hoe come from? I can't see it on csi is it the same man as pic on the left?

I'm not sure.

Man with the hoe I think is from Koh Tao (if I remember properly), that pic is already a a old thread on those same forums.

This pic was published a few days after the murders when some Island Residents started the "No sex on our beach" campaign....

That guy apparently found funny to take pic with the hoe few days after the murder...

I'm not sure that the Hoe guy, and the chubby person of interest are one and the same

[elektrified]

Lot of wealthy Thai in Europe. Just take time off, travel to Milan, accommodation, food, loss of earnings, etc.

They must feel pretty strongly then to all spontaneously decide to do that

I know Milan pretty well having worked there. Which parts are "fully clogged" and how many demonstrators do you estimate clogged all of Milan?

Are you suggesting they are all protesting about the Police investigation into the horrific KT murders?

Ignorant post. Yes, there are many wealthy Thais in Europe. I lived in Europe many years and knew many of them (and still do). Many live there and own businesses there. Others have been sent there by their employers. Difficult to understand?

[Thai at Heart]

Might as well forget mark kent.

The PM is trying to get on the world stage so the British press should hit him up while he is in Milan and force him to give a promise of co operation with the Brits over the murder of two British subjects.

Good luck with that!

You dont' understand how this works.

Until one very senior Thai in this mess decides to do the right thing, everyone is going to sit on their hands and do nothing. If someone senior enough says "We are going to redo this whole investigation", then watch everyone run around like mad men.

[Tazwa]

How is it that so many hundreds of people (including all those CSI Super Sleuth Thai college students) seem to know who committed the murders yet after a full month, haven't come up with one single shred of photographic evidence that shows the 'son' on the island during the eve of the crime? (That grainy cctv footage of the running man doesn't count by the way - pick 100 Thai males at random and half of them, it could be argued, look like the mystery man. Anyhow, one of the Burmese admitted being the running man in the cctv footage a long time ago whilst also denying being the murderer.) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/02/burmese-man-confesses-murder-british-backpackers-thailand

Interesting that these sleuths can dig up photos of just about anyone else from the island yet can't seem to find this prominent boy.

Me thinks they're looking for something that doesn't exist.

As for the Burmese parents believing their boys could not have committed the crime... seems like a pretty natural reaction of any parent. How well do they really know their boys and what they got up to since leaving their homeland? Bet many murderers around the world had lovely parents who never would have believed their children could undertake such gruesome acts.

Then there are the unbelievable statements by some who say these poor little Burmese men could not possibly have killed David - he was too big and strong and they're too small. What a load of crap. Lay on the ground face down and have a 12 year-old boy hit you once on the skull with an iron hoe and see what happens. I'm not even saying the hoe was the weapon but please don't tell me they couldn't have been capable of incapacitating David pretty quickly.

I'm also not saying for one minute that these guys are the culprits or the only ones involved. What I will say is that a lot of people are just jumping on the scapegoat train saying that they know who the real murderer is. Even worse are the childish ones with closed minds who put their fingers in their ears and yell, "blah, blah, blah" every time someone suggests something they don't agree with. If you know who the murderer is, produce some proof.

[Local Drunk]

If these two gets charged with murder, and the scums are not arrested.

I am going to North Korea and tearing my passport.

Good... preconceived notions as you have always been welcomed there.

[Tazwa]

One dirty, rich family protecting it's son's murderous acts & in effect teaching their son that murder is ok is destroying a perfectly good & morally intact family.

It was so fast that the RTP dropped all comment and accusations which included the rich kids son wearing the shorts of the young brit on cctv as soon as

1 million BAHT showed up!!!!!!

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you Kozmo?

[JOC]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

[ratcatcher]

if his son's "so innocent" then why not give DNA? it's THAT simple

"The father of a Myanmar national accused of killing two Britons on Koh Tao has insisted that this son, Win Zaw Htun, is innocent. "My son isn't an aggressive person and has good morals," he said."

You seem to be another, among a few on here, under the impression this article is about the well connected bar owner whose son has not had a DNA test?

It is about a poor Burmese man. the father of one of the accused, pleading for some sanity in this bizarre case.

[Local Drunk]

I'll give you all little fuel to continue. In one CCTV clip that has been posted here... maybe it was someone called berrty or something like that. . Go to 32 seconds and freeze. Hanna and friends are walking out of the pub and there is someone behind them... The vid shows the two girls with their heads turned to the male behind them as if to acknowledge something he said... then it's off to the next cam. Just to make it more interesting... what colour tee shirt is he wearing? Who does he look like? What colour tee is fatty wearing in the pics posted above next to Heather? None of it is incriminating... it's all speculation based on preconceived opinions of what we want to believe. Get it?

Get concrete evidence! No court in the world is going to listen to anything but that. If the cops have it, then they have the right guys.

Cheers, Local Drunk

[wackybacky]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

The empire days maybe over, but our legacy still reigns supreme wherever it was.... Look at the major financial power bases in SEA... Singapore and HK.....

6th largest economy in the world, and not one like the fake US economy propped up with money printing. So in reality the 5th largest I would say.

Also, watch the effects of the UK pulling out of the EU in a couple of years.... It will collapse and the French and Germans know it. We will become even stronger than we already are.

Lastly where is the financial capital in Europe?..... Paris?.... Berlin?.... No..... London.

We are significantly higher status than Thailand..... End of.

We may not have the Empire but we have the commonwealth.

[ratcatcher]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

A word to the wais.

In the photograph of Supinya Klangnarong greeting Mark Kent, she is waiing in the correct Thai fashion, Ambassador Kent is bowing Japanese style whilst waiing her at the same time.

Supinya's smile is probably more from amusement than politeness.

The photo shows an older lady being waiied by a younger female.The low wai comes from the superior.

[jdinasia]

HUH?

Hit by a massive blow to the head In a blitz attack and there is no fighting back.

I am open minded about this case, but that theory seems out of kilter with information in many press reports.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-british-tourist-4273518

BBC a few hours ago

Post-mortem examinations found Mr Miller, 24, from Jersey, died from drowning and a blow to the head, while Miss Witheridge, 23, from Hemsby in Norfolk, died from head wounds.

[jdinasia]

Deleted.

Mooner can look at the post above

[JOC]

if his son's "so innocent" then why not give DNA? it's THAT simple

"The father of a Myanmar national accused of killing two Britons on Koh Tao has insisted that this son, Win Zaw Htun, is innocent. "My son isn't an aggressive person and has good morals," he said."

You seem to be another, among a few on here, under the impression this article is about the well connected bar owner whose son has not had a DNA test?

It is about a poor Burmese man. the father of one of the accused, pleading for some sanity in this bizarre case.

Why spoil a good conspiracy theory with something as boooooring as facts??

You have to realise that most posters here are either too thick or too lazy to read more than the two previous posts before hitting the keyboard to share their wisdom with us!!

One of the dangers with a social media frenzy!!

[Bleacher Bum East]

HUH?

Hit by a massive blow to the head In a blitz attack and there is no fighting back.

I am open minded about this case, but that theory seems out of kilter with information in many press reports.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-british-tourist-4273518

BBC a few hours ago

Post-mortem examinations found Mr Miller, 24, from Jersey, died from drowning and a blow to the head, while Miss Witheridge, 23, from Hemsby in Norfolk, died from head wounds.

I continue to follow half in amusement and half in disgust the ongoing battle between your intellectual dishonesty JD and the intellectual disability and/or laziness of many of your chosen jousting partners (not talking about you citizen33, I don't know your posts). It serves a purpose to challenge posters to support their arguments, claims and theories and challenge them to do the legwork to make sure they've got their facts straight. But if you're going to do it, why not do it with integrity? Because if you don't do it with intellectual honesty and integrity, which you don't, then how can you call yourself anything but a troll? Basically you're acting as the Bill O'Reilly of TVC. Can't you do better than that and raise the level of discourse, rather than dragging it down? You have the ability but don't use it. Anyways, I guess that would take real effort, and destroy the amusement value that must be your only purpose for doing what you're doing.

[kkup]

It's fair to say Ambassador Kent is a knob Jockey. Does anyone know if there is a live webcam feed of downing street? I wanna watch old mate PM get heckled.

[Artisi]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

A word to the wais.

In the photograph of Supinya Klangnarong greeting Mark Kent, she is waiing in the correct Thai fashion, Ambassador Kent is bowing Japanese style whilst waiing her at the same time.

Supinya's smile is probably more from amusement than politeness.

bow wow..jpg30245635-01_big.jpg

The photo shows an older lady being waiied by a younger female.The low wai comes from the superior.

By the same token, Kent represents the Queen of England - making it a pretty even to my way of thinking.

[Wilsonandson]

It's fair to say Ambassador Kent is a knob Jockey. Does anyone know if there is a live webcam feed of downing street? I wanna watch old mate PM get heckled.

It's fair to say and no don't have live feed. Hahaha!!!

[jdinasia]

HUH?

Hit by a massive blow to the head In a blitz attack and there is no fighting back.

I am open minded about this case, but that theory seems out of kilter with information in many press reports.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-british-tourist-4273518

BBC a few hours ago

Post-mortem examinations found Mr Miller, 24, from Jersey, died from drowning and a blow to the head, while Miss Witheridge, 23, from Hemsby in Norfolk, died from head wounds.

I continue to follow half in amusement and half in disgust the ongoing battle between your intellectual dishonesty JD and the intellectual disability and/or laziness of many of your chosen jousting partners (not talking about you citizen33, I don't know your posts). It serves a purpose to challenge posters to support their arguments, claims and theories and challenge them to do the legwork to make sure they've got their facts straight. But if you're going to do it, why not do it with integrity? Because if you don't do it with intellectual honesty and integrity, which you don't, then how can you call yourself anything but a troll? Basically you're acting as the Bill O'Reilly of TVC. Can't you do better than that and raise the level of discourse, rather than dragging it down? You have the ability but don't use it. Anyways, I guess that would take real effort, and destroy the amusement value that must be your only purpose for doing what you're doing.

So, according to you. Pointing out a new story from the Beeb stating the post mortem shows exactly what I said it did, is intellectually dishonest???

[Johnsen]

I still say that picture on CCTV is a DEAD RINGER of Nomsod ....

[Bleacher Bum East]

I continue to follow half in amusement and half in disgust the ongoing battle between your intellectual dishonesty JD and the intellectual disability and/or laziness of many of your chosen jousting partners (not talking about you citizen33, I don't know your posts). It serves a purpose to challenge posters to support their arguments, claims and theories and challenge them to do the legwork to make sure they've got their facts straight. But if you're going to do it, why not do it with integrity? Because if you don't do it with intellectual honesty and integrity, which you don't, then how can you call yourself anything but a troll? Basically you're acting as the Bill O'Reilly of TVC. Can't you do better than that and raise the level of discourse, rather than dragging it down? You have the ability but don't use it. Anyways, I guess that would take real effort, and destroy the amusement value that must be your only purpose for doing what you're doing.

So, according to you. Pointing out a new story from the Beeb stating the post mortem shows exactly what I said it did, is intellectually dishonest???

You're a smart guy JD ... you know what you're doing. And the fact that you know what you're doing makes it even worse.

[jdinasia]

I continue to follow half in amusement and half in disgust the ongoing battle between your intellectual dishonesty JD and the intellectual disability and/or laziness of many of your chosen jousting partners (not talking about you citizen33, I don't know your posts). It serves a purpose to challenge posters to support their arguments, claims and theories and challenge them to do the legwork to make sure they've got their facts straight. But if you're going to do it, why not do it with integrity? Because if you don't do it with intellectual honesty and integrity, which you don't, then how can you call yourself anything but a troll? Basically you're acting as the Bill O'Reilly of TVC. Can't you do better than that and raise the level of discourse, rather than dragging it down? You have the ability but don't use it. Anyways, I guess that would take real effort, and destroy the amusement value that must be your only purpose for doing what you're doing.

So, according to you. Pointing out a new story from the Beeb stating the post mortem shows exactly what I said it did, is intellectually dishonest???

You're a smart guy JD ... you know what you're doing. And the fact that you know what you're doing makes it even worse.

Got it. You were not actually commenting on that post. You were just trolling?

[MJP]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

A word to the wais.

In the photograph of Supinya Klangnarong greeting Mark Kent, she is waiing in the correct Thai fashion, Ambassador Kent is bowing Japanese style whilst waiing her at the same time.

Supinya's smile is probably more from amusement than politeness.

bow wow..jpg30245635-01_big.jpg

The photo shows an older lady being waiied by a younger female.The low wai comes from the superior.

Yeah, I clocked that when it was first published. What is he doing?

And to JOC, I don't know anyone now who remotely thinks of Britain having an empire. That was a generation or so back. The British people are too busy trying to make mortgage payments to bother about much else these days.

[kaorop]

I continue to follow half in amusement and half in disgust the ongoing battle between your intellectual dishonesty JD and the intellectual disability and/or laziness of many of your chosen jousting partners (not talking about you citizen33, I don't know your posts). It serves a purpose to challenge posters to support their arguments, claims and theories and challenge them to do the legwork to make sure they've got their facts straight. But if you're going to do it, why not do it with integrity? Because if you don't do it with intellectual honesty and integrity, which you don't, then how can you call yourself anything but a troll? Basically you're acting as the Bill O'Reilly of TVC. Can't you do better than that and raise the level of discourse, rather than dragging it down? You have the ability but don't use it. Anyways, I guess that would take real effort, and destroy the amusement value that must be your only purpose for doing what you're doing.

So, according to you. Pointing out a new story from the Beeb stating the post mortem shows exactly what I said it did, is intellectually dishonest???

You're a smart guy JD ... you know what you're doing. And the fact that you know what you're doing makes it even worse.

on the payroll, only a fool would post that much for free

[Johnsen]

Who pays the bills Thailand. I hope the influential islanders can cover the costs... We tourists n expats might disappear like rats leaving a sinking ship ....

[davidstipek]

Anybody with two eyes and half a sense can see these two guys are not killers.

Now, that pic of Mon Set playing with the bilge hose on the boat; check his pecs and shoulder/biceps muscles at the edge of the pic. Pretty ripped, typical of (Thai/SE Asian) men who labor or of course of any young guy who's very active.

What some of the foreigners posting here don't get is that you don't have to be big to be very strong if your muscles are well-toned. Try arm-wrestling a skinny Thai labourer some time, see how it goes.

Last, anyone who's spent more than a couple years (like one self-appointed high-count poster who's a self-styled expert on Thailand after….3 years here! in SE Asia can pick out the tough guys pretty quickly if not at a glance. The guys peering over the counter at the 7-11 in the pic--tough guys, definitely. The Burmese guys--no way.

I've also noticed some posters on these Koh Tao threads with very, very high post counts, like 10-20 every single day for months; a few also have suspiciously similar names and posts (--John-- and similar in case you're curious) and to me come across as shills because they continually either praise the investigation without giving doing much other than parrot the police press releases, or otherwise mis-direct or try derail the thread by making irrelevant comparisons to other countries (as if two wrongs make a right), o badger people who are posting comments critical of this farce I mean investigation.

I suggest readers of these threads read with a critical eye anything written pro or con the handling of this case; though to be frank in my eyes the cons outweigh the pros 100 to 1.

Another ignorant i.e. misinformed comment the Thai authorities and some posters have made is that the rape of poor Hannah was due to sexual lust. This just shows they never took criminology 101, though interestingly it plays right into the framing scenario (or is another reason it's ludicrous, so in fact they're actually weakening their case in the eyes of all but the gullible by focusing on it as motive).

I've seen my share of gore in real life and not much shocks me any more, but the photos I saw of Hannah did. Whoever did that to her is a monster or was drugged up into being one. Brutal, vicious beyond anything short of a beheading; I actually encourage all of you interested in this case, especially the Thai-apologists, to seek these photos out, see for yourself, and then come back here and make word-play about her, David, or these two Burmese guys. Go ahead, disgust me (and no doubt others) more than you have already.

In my conspiratorial moments I can see this as an action directed either intuitionally or not at many foreigners in Thailand. The comments on the Thai side within days worrying or hoping about the effect on tourism have also disgusted me but also revealed what I've long known about Thailand, since I first started visiting it couple of decades+ back: we are tolerated for our money, at times given respect for our relative wealth/power (i.e. that of our native countries), but there is also a very, very strong current of envy and dislike bordering on contempt for us (and no small part of that is deserved due to the behaviour of many of us in Thailand), and that combination is a toxic one, it can and does lead to violence.

So open your eyes, folks, this is about all of us. Look at the facts; it would be very good actually for someone(s) to put together an online source of verified information related to the case, as well as a list of unanswered questions, of which there are many. The mantra for all of this should be "never again."

/rant

Right On!

Just maybe.... A Big MAYBE!!

If P.M. wants to increase Tourism.... Biggest and Best way would be to Not Say when Something happens... People are Murdered! Raped! When it involves Farangs... "It is Tourists Problem, Not Thailands!" Not to blame the way... They were dressed... Not when 98% of the School and College Females Dress as to show they have no Shorts on (Hidden by Their Super Tight Tops) and never once an appology... " Because Hanna did "NOT" was NOT wearing Bikini Swimsuit"!!!! (Sit at any coffee shop and in an hour... how many examples can you take pictures of???) I got 45 on Motorcycles no less... 38 of the Girls Smiled for me also! I do not live in Bangkok, outside Chiang Mai, in a quiet suburban Area...! I was also with two Friends, one a Major Thai Royal Police, the other a Lt. Col. Thai Military. They both agreed after viewing on Computer... "All were more or less seeming to imply Sex in some shape or form." Also against most Thai Schools Dress Codes! But They wear anyway! (Also far more Sexy then any "White" Girl would have been, even dressed the same! Plus this was the reason of all the unmarried Preg. girls under the age of 20. I was told rather then correct the dress, they just made more Condoms available! all 3 of us were discusted at this solution...

Yet this is still the thought that her dress that night caused the reason for her Death!

Would be to #1... Invite Home Country of Victims to get Involved ASAP! With any and all investigations!!! Not Say we have it under control.... You are not needed here!!!" PM being from Military, has very little insight into the inner circle and workings of Police Forces in Thailands Provinces... Yes There are some who try to good Job... but that is a Minority! Most have a second income source.... Which should and must be declared and reported, or Officer be dismissed... Either one way or you are no longer Employed, Period! Not get moved to Inactive Post... (Vacaction? at same rate of pay? Easy Street because nothin to do?)

You are starting to see how Tourists have read between the lines on how the P.M. has invited them... "Thailand wants good!! Tourists... Interpitted to english from Thai thinking... is if you have lots of MONEY... Rich... International Figure... please come... we want you to enoy Thailand!!!

Mr. P.M. These are the peope who are smart enough to "Not" come here! Why should they feed the crime that seems to be the 2nd most Important Thai Job... in "All" Tourist locations???? Not to say If you come here... You come at your risk... "Not Thailands!"

This is read this way because in your 2nd breath you stated that we must be careful! You "Did Not" anywhere say that Thailand would Protect us.. Nowhere did you try to impose a sense of security in the minds of future Tourists that they would be insured Thailand... Because they were visitors would try to make sure that while being here they could feel secure...

All you said was this is Thailand... Rest of the World you cannot come here to protect your people here when there is problem... Only that you would insure Thai People they would be protected from the rest of the world.... ????? You say you are trying to boost Tourism? Think again!! With a mind set such as this you might also be closing the doors on World Trade!!

If you take a good look at Crime sindicate thinking seems to be seen that From the Boss on down the Mafia Rule Book is also closely related to the thinking here.... "I have Money... Can can kill policeman, leave Thailand and I am protected!" Is it a fact that in Thailand Money is more Powerful then the "Law"???

My Company in America, used to do Millions of Dollars Trade here each year! This will be our last year to Import "Anything" from Thailand!! Other Companies, friends doing same Business World-wide have asked us for advice... What to do... to continue Trade here. I don't Lie! My answer has been. Study Political Thinking in Thailand... Then you have to make this decision, but yes we have! 100%

Anyone in control of a Countries future also has the important responsiblity of providing for his or her Countrymen's survival.... I think this has been forgotten here. The common thought is if things are kept quiet no one will get hurt! This is not the 19th Century... It's almost the 21st! It is impossible to hide things now... Yes! Thailand is not MH370! Yes it has not been found! Not everyone has same thoughts to zip-up their mouth... Some people on both sides of the issue also have "Souls".

You speak from one side of your Mouth you want!!!... But from one side of your Mouth you say... and your Hands sign into Laws a different Story!

Just so you know we have beenwatching Thai News for a long... time! There are Murders all over Thailand! Over 80% of those killed are not Thai... but Farangs!! Comment from Senior Police Official in that a Thai Person... Could not do this type of crime! Who is there to Blame??? How many Thai Nationals are in Prison for Murder?? How many have Paid (because they can afford!) to make it go away. To go free on some sort of legal technicallity??

Yes you started on right path... but you need to get back on it! (Change your wornout shoes so asphalt not burn your feet) The correct Path is never... the easiest! Remember that! If it gets easy, climb a tree and take a good look at where you are...! Where you came from...! How you got there...! and correct it!

I know my Decision on trade will hurt Families, Companies, Single Parents and Children! But it was not my decision that caused this... It was yours!

Which is better for Thailand?? Mr P.M.!!

[HughJass]

0.33 -0.40 could be Nomsod shaking hands with David,that arrogant swagger betrays him.I have no doubt he is at present taking lessons to change his gait

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2B0_L-qUKQ#t=33

[ratcatcher]

Who pays the bills Thailand. I hope the influential islanders can cover the costs... We tourists n expats might disappear like rats leaving a sinking ship ....

[Sirbergan]

Jonasbaker just reported 50% of you guys to the general.

[Mooner]

Deleted.

Mooner can look at the post above

That was already established that it was a blow to the back of his head that killed him.

I'm just trying to establish what caused the injuries to his face that look like little dagger marks not from being hit by a hoe.