Manchester City

[Bredbury Blue]

I for one am not exactly loyal to SP but we've the effects of chopping and changing haven't we, so currently i'm sitting on the fence. We'd won, wish i repeat we should have, we'd be level with Spurs in 11th. I don't think the time to panic is just yet but i agree things can't stay as they are for too long.

Reckon he needs to shake it up about, bring in Trabelsi full time, and as we lack pace up front and wide, please lord give Ireland a go. Drop Thatcher. I'd be happy to Micah in midfield holding - which is his main position anyway - with Barton and Ireland. Lets try and play football.

[Bredbury Blue]

Here’s when the contracts expire:

Next summer:

(current squad number and player)

3 Ben Thatcher

4 Stephen Jordan

6 Claudio Reyna

12 Nicky Weaver

15 Sylvain Distin

24 DaMarcus Beasley

27 Hatem Trabelsi

28 Trevor Sinclair

Based on this seasons performances, let go thatcher and reyna and give contracts to those without NW and HT and 4, 15, and 28. DB i want to see some more of before i'd give him a contract.

Summer 2008:

14 Paul Dickov

16 Nedum Onuoha

17 Jihai Sun

18 Danny Mills

19 Kasper Schmeichel

21 Dietmar Hamman

Hamann can leave tomorrow for Bolton based on what i've seen. Keep NO and KS only, the rest can leave.

Summer 2009:

1 Andreas Isaksson

5 Ousmane Dabo

7 Stephen Ireland

11 Darius Vassell

22 Richard Dunne

26 Matthew Mills

30 Bernardo Corradi

Summer 2010:

2 Micah Richards

8 Joey Barton

25 Joe Hart

20 Georgios Samaras

[Bredbury Blue]

Seems like the decline of Manu that i was going on about on here nearly commenced last Novmeber http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1941102,00.html .

[nev]

Seems like the decline of Manu that i was going on about on here nearly commenced last Novmeber http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1941102,00.html .

cannot understand why you think fergie going will be our decline,maybe you should hire a hit man toi get rid of him as there is talk he wants to stay another 5 years now.

if he goes i am sure a top manager will arrive, as long as he is not spanish or french i dont mind.

my choice would be martin oniel,or even mark hughes.

[Bredbury Blue]

Seems like the decline of Manu that i was going on about on here nearly commenced last Novmeber http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1941102,00.html .

cannot understand why you think fergie going will be our decline,maybe you should hire a hit man toi get rid of him as there is talk he wants to stay another 5 years now.

if he goes i am sure a top manager will arrive, as long as he is not spanish or french i dont mind.

my choice would be martin oniel,or even mark hughes.

Twenty years of one man and he leaves with no apparent heir to the throne, shades of Busby leaving and a definite recipe for disaster. Personally i don't mind Fergie, even read his book, so i kind of admire him, and there can be no doubt that he is a top manager going back to his earliest days. Anyway are you lonely on your page or WHAT!

[mrbojangles]

Come on you blues. Watching the match tonight in the Butchers Arms, Soi Boukao. Don't let me down boys

[JacknDanny]

Come on you blues. Watching the match tonight in the Butchers Arms, Soi Boukao. Don't let me down boys

I will be there. How will I recognise you? Rose in lapel? wrapped in the City flag? Singing Blue Moon non-stop???

[mrbojangles]

Come on you blues. Watching the match tonight in the Butchers Arms, Soi Boukao. Don't let me down boys

I will be there. How will I recognise you? Rose in lapel? wrapped in the City flag? Singing Blue Moon non-stop???

PM sent

[totlanh]

City 0-Newcastle 0

Pearce you are a fool

Pearce you are a clown

Pearce get the ###### away from the club that i love before you destroy it!!!

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

PEARCE OUT

[Bredbury Blue]

Watched the game in my hotel in singapore on a 14 inch tv, with the sound very low so my kids could sleep...wish i had, it was that bad.

Yes we dominated, but we lack any invention whatsoever. If you're not going to play Stephen Ireland then farm him out.

The only bright spot for me was Trabelsi looks quality. And weren't we hanging on for the last couple of minutes.

Going to be a long old season!

Boy was i depressed after that, in fact still am. We need a win against Fulham in saturday's early game.

[Bredbury Blue]

CITY'S RIGHT OF REPLY

In McV 1273 (mcivta.city-fan.org ), Ian Barton claimed City Chief Executive Alistair Mackintosh made an alleged derogatory remark about the supporters who attend Points of Blue. We understand that there was no truth in this and Ian should not have included it in the article. We have also been assured that Ian's allegation that City's Head of Communications, Paul Tyrrell, has asked club officials not to attend supporters meetings is also completely untrue. We are happy to set the record straight.

And here is the club's response:

Paul Tyrrell - Ian Barton's offering to Mcivta 1273 was high on opinions and raised some relevant discussion topics - although I welcome his decision to withdraw some of his more wild, inaccurate and distasteful comments.

I will endeavour to respond to his more reasonable questions and have done so underneath the original text of his note.

Ian Barton - 1. Relationship with Supporters

The first problem is the erosion of the close relationship which the Club enjoys with the fans. This is at an all time low; the sound bite "Supporting our Supporters" appears a distant memory. The Club has built its bedrock of support through being accessible to its fans but it appears that over the past 2-3 years the drawbridges have been pulled up. When the Club was at its lowest ebb the huge support it received was acknowledged as being its saviour. The close affinity with supporters groups, which had been fostered for many years, is now weak and the powers that be are resentful of the need to meet with fans.

Paul Tyrrell - The drawbridges are still down - always have been, always will be. Every official at the Club is immensely proud of the accessibility our supporters have to their Club. No other Club in the Premiership and probably Championship does as much open communicating with its supporters.

In Charlton's matchday programme last Saturday the Addicks were shouting about a new idea - Iain Dowie attending a Q&A session with fans. We have been doing 3 or 4 of them every season for years…

On top of these 'open mike' sessions, we hold supporters branch meetings at the stadium in which a first team player will attend. The Chairman and Chief Executive have even laid on free bus travel for branches in the Manchester area. This is the only difference since those dark days of Division 2 - namely we now bus supporters in, rather than send a player out.

We actively send officials to branch meetings throughout the Greater Manchester area and beyond.

Our first team squad has an annual signing session with the London and South East -based Blues followed by a Q&A session with the Manager and a Board member.

We meet regularly at Points of Blue with supporters selected by their peers to represent your interests. At these meetings, we discuss any issue raised - from the price of a pint to the cost of controlling the Club.

The Chairman, Chief Executive and Head of Operations met with OSC officials this week to discuss a wide range of topics - only a week after a Points of Blue meeting. On the same evening I paid a trip to the West Yorkshire CSA branch.

We still, unlike most other Premiership Clubs, have an open-door policy at Carrington (apart from the day before a game) during which supporters can meet players and staff.

On a match day - players enter the stadium via the front door of the Colin Bell stand (not through the back door as at other Clubs).

Ian Barton - 2. Attendances

Many other areas require attention but the evidence of the problem can be seen with the reduction in Season Card sales from 35500 in our first year at Eastlands to around 26250 now. I don't know of many businesses that could be comfortable with a 25%+ drop in business in such a short space of time. In our first season at Eastlands the gates were at 98% of capacity, last season they were down to 89% and the trend seems likely to continue. My fears are for a long lasting impact on future gates. Scores of Fans have been put off attending matches due to the complex ticketing policy and the difficulty in obtaining tickets on a game-by-game basis. The recently announced Live 4 City scheme is to be applauded but is probably several years too late.

Paul Tyrrell - We, like most other football clubs, have experienced a recent down-turn in attendances although our gates here at Sportcity are generally higher than they were at Maine Road. Only three times since the end of the Second World War did our Maine Road average season attendance reach 40,000. (1948, 1977 and 1978). There are many potential reasons for this and they are probably cumulative. They include: TV scheduling, on-field performance and increasing competition in the sport and entertainment industry. We could sit back and accept this, but we don't.

Our pricing structure for seasoncard and matchday tickets is always extremely competitive. We have imposed price freezes on seasoncards since we moved into the stadium; introduced a whole raft of new, sliding scale, seasoncard prices for youngsters - starting from as little as £95 and have dramatically reduced ticket prices for some home cup games (sometimes ignoring FA pricing to subsidise matches for our fans).

I do not believe our ticketing process is complex - although the perception may be different, and therefore we must continue to work on that. One click on the home page of our Club website gives you every piece of information you could possibly require. For those people without internet access, a call to 0870 0621894 will do exactly the same job.

Your negative attitude towards our Live4City scheme is shared neither by the 7,000+ youngsters who have joined the initiative, nor by the 2,000 young people who turned up on the last day of the half term holidays to see an open training session, meet the players and get autographs to their hearts content.

Ian Barton - 3. Finances / Team Building

We have been told for a few years that our debt is manageable yet having sold our 2 best players in the last 18 months we have not replaced them with anything approaching comparable quality. If we cannot afford our debt repayment then the situation is more understandable but if we have been told the truth then we cannot afford a policy of debt reduction without investing in team strengthening. It would be a great shame if some of the highly talented youngsters were to fade due to lack of experienced support. They are the bedrock of our future but they need help. The policy of being a selling Club will not help attract or even retain talent. We must not become a mere stepping-stone for the best young players in years.

Paul Tyrrell - Our debt is manageable and well structured. There are other Premiership Clubs carrying considerably more debt than we have.

It should be remembered that the reason why we sold both the players I assume Ian is referring to (Anelka and Wright-Phillips) is that both of them indicated, in the strongest possible terms, that they did not wish to play for the football club. Our ambition to retain our homegrown talent is epitomised by the successful efforts we made to re-sign Academy graduates Joey Barton, Micah Richards, Danny Sturridge and Michael Johnson, despite the envious attention from others.

Ian Barton - The failure to invest last season cost us several millions in lost prize money, disappointing when we had built such a solid base early in the season.

The acquisition of say Didi Hamann or Danny Murphy last winter could have m ade a significant difference. Go back 3 years we had a well-balanced midfield of Wright Phillips, Foe, Bernarbia & Berkovic none of whom have been adequately replaced. I recall mentioning the name of Riquelme to a Club official when he was being offered on loan, we failed to get him, how much difference could he have made?

Paul Tyrrell - We did invest heavily in the last financial year to the tune of net expenditure reaching £10.3m on player transfer fees. Our wages budget remains in the higher echelon of the Premiership, even if our performances last season did not accurately reflect this.

Our spending on the MCFC Academy is one of the highest in British football.

Ian Barton - The major question here is what is our policy? Pure debt reduction or are we to balance that against reasonable investment to improve the team and its performance? Surely a statement of intent would be a huge help to Management and Supporters alike. What are the Clubs aspirations, where do we want to be?

Under David Bernstein there was an avowed intention, now the Club appears to be run by an Accountant and we have no idea of its direction. Colin Savage's excellent Financial Reviews highlighted the fact that our Chief Executive Alistair Mackintosh is also on the Accounts Committee which poses major questions about checks and balances. I personally doubt that despite the sale of SWP for £21m last season that the debt has been significantly reduced which leads me to suspect that we will be a selling Club for years to come.

Paul Tyrrell - A slightly more than cursory glance at our recent Annual Report and Accounts reveals that external debt has been reduced by more than 16%, while we invested heavily in both transfer fees and the wage bill. John Wardle and David Makin's fantastic financial support of the Club has continued with neither of them taking a penny back, in repayments or interest, of the money they have loaned.

Ian Barton - 4. Back Room Staff

As previously stated we suffered badly through injuries last season and to date this season the picture is equally bleak which poses the question is the Manager happy that his medical staff is of sufficient quality and sufficiently well qualified? Under Rob Harris I cannot recall so many problems.

Paul Tyrrell - Our medical staff, and the results they achieve are the envy of the sports industry. Who says? Medical staff at Arsenal, England and England Rugby Union have all recently asked to assess our techniques because we get players back from injury, safely and in the shortest possible time.

Ian Barton - Is the Manager happy with his coaching team? He has made some changes but is this what he requires? The Manager has had to work under conditions which no other City boss in recent times has had to tolerate. The Board have not supported him adequately in the market and he has to live on scraps. We cannot compete with the likes of Bolton, Wigan, West Ham, Spurs, Fulham, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Everton, Aston Villa, Birmingham or even Southampton. None of these teams can be seriously considered bigger fish than us. Our gates are well in excess of all of these.

Paul Tyrrell - The Manager is happy with his coaching staff. A transfer budget of more than £10m and a wage bill which is higher than most Premiership Clubs is hardly feeding off the scraps.

Ian Barton - 5. Inwards Investment

The question of Investors in the Club is vital. It is understood that Abramovich's are thin on the ground but what leads have there been in that field, how has Mr Mackintosh faired? It is understood that Guydamak looked at City before going to Portsmouth, what went wrong there? Why are Ray Ranson and Niall Quinn looking elsewhere with their consortia? Have the likes of Trevor Birch who lined up the Chelsea deal been contacted?

Paul Tyrrell - The Chairman has always said he would not stand in the way of credible inward investment.

Ian Barton - What value has the work in China yielded?

Paul Tyrrell - The Manager prefers to take the first team squad abroad for a 'boot camp'style preparation to the season. We visited China on pre-season tour and were paid a fee to take part in a tournament.

Ian Barton - It would appear that there is a change in the air with regards to football investment given what has happened at such Clubs as Aston Villa and the rumoured moves at Liverpool. It is essential that City respond quickly.

Ian Barton - 5. Perceptions

The image which a Club projects can make a huge difference to the publics perceived view. This can mean the difference between the average supporter believing his Club is going places and feeling hopelessness, which is our current mode. Furthermore it can influence players and staff in terms of joining a Club or even re signing for the Club. In the Bernstein era there was a great feel good factor engendered by everyone from the Chairman and Chris Bird to Kevin Keegan which permeated to the Supporters and then to the media. At present we have no perceivable feel good factor, one wonders what the PR department is doing, are the Board addressing this problem? I fear not. Where is the leadership? where are the statements from the top? Where is the excitement?

As an example a friend of mine recently bought his son the new shirt and asked him who's name he would like on the back, his reply was that he would leave it blank, a sure fire indication that this 12 year old could see no star quality in the team. Gone are the exciting times of Anelka, Wright Phillips, Bernarbia and Berkovic. Who is exciting the youngsters now?

In essence I am concerned on many levels but I earnestly believe that at the present time we are a Club who has turned its back on the Supporters, has no Direction let alone Strategy, no media savvy and is looking increasingly in free fall. Please note that this is not a reaction to our desperate start to the season as the basis of my comments was prepared in early summer. I could probably write a huge volume on this subject but have tried to be brief and to the point, the issues which I have highlighted can be supported by hard facts. I know many die hard fans who have made supporting City their life's love but are now turning away, that is a huge indictment of the current Board.

It is vital that strong action is taken immediately to arrest the situation by those in charge making sweeping changes to the policy within the Club.The first fundamental change would be to become more open and Supporter friendly, only by fostering the goodwill of the fans can we hope to move forward, a policy which past regimes embraced to good effect. The fans should be kept aware of the strategy of the Club, if it is debt repayment then be honest, if it is to be a balanced plan then it would not be giving away trade secrets. I do not kid myself that I know the answers to high finance but I do know that if your product deteriorates and your customers/ clients become dissatisfied then you are on a slippery slope.

Paul Tyrrell - It would be wrong of me to identify who are heroes in our squad, but there is a real source of pride from most supporters, and all staff, about the number and quality of home-grown players who make our first team. Since Stuart Pearce became manager, he has fielded 11 Academy graduates - a testimony to everybody at Platt Lane.

The Chairman's statement in the Annual Report makes our strategy and aims crystal clear. Mr Wardle says: "Whilst Premiership survival remains an objective, it alone does not represent a successful season for Manchester City Football Club."

This means we are a progressive Club looking to build on a record stay in the Premiership and the stability that that brings - which was our aim during the years of Mr Bernstein's Chairmanship. It also means that we will look to progress in cup competitions, as we did in the FA Cup last year. Finally, it means that we will continue with our quest for silverware which everybody associated with the Club craves.

But our Club is much more than that. Manchester City FC is recognised as a part of the Manchester community. A football Club that understands its responsibilities and a Club which remembers its heritage.

It is of concern to me that Mr Barton feels that we are not 'media savvy.'

However, his claim is not backed up by any facts. I would hope, and I firmly believe, that any respectable or reputable member of the media would disagree with him. They would certainly say that we are a Club who remembers and values our tradition and history, whilst being forward-looking and thoroughly professional.

I know they would say that the officials of the Club are true custodians of our great institution and our supporters are passionate, loyal and fair.

Paul Tyrrell (paul.tyrrell at mcfc.co.uk)

I read with great interest the comments ABOVE from Ian Barton McV 1273 and the reply on behalf of the club by Paul Tyrrell in McV 1275.

Ian was obviously well within his rights to voice those opinions which many fans would identify with, and I for one appreciated Paul’s enlightening response.

I greatly appreciate the fact that the club’s officials read our comments, and appreciate our concerns enough to respond to an open forum – I very seriously doubt if there are many clubs, if any, in the Premiership that would make the effort to do so and I value that.

I should add that I have met Paul Tyrell and some of his staff (Danny and others) during the City tour of Thailand a season back. I sent an email to the club months before the tour asking would it be possible for my wife (Thai), our two little boys and myself to meet the players. Not only did Paul reply, but on their arrival he was very open to my offer of local help, arranged for us to meet all the players at training (our three year old as he was then, became an overnight David James and Sun Jihai fan after meeting them), arranged complimentary tickets for the games for us and guests (a Chelsea supporter and wife who marvelled at the club’s accessibility to its supporters which he was adamant would never happen at Chelsea past or present), and made my wife and some of her married-to-fellow-expat girlfriend’s week by accepting their offer of use of their Thai-language skills to accompany the players on a shopping-trip to help navigate them safely around Bangkok’s myriad shops and bargain prices for them. Fantastic experience for a life-long Blue and I repeat, we didn’t offer any help initially to Paul but he was extremely accommodating from day one in our exchange in offering me so much access to the club and I like to think we were able to ‘scratch each other’s backs’ a little.

So if you have a grievance, point to make, whatever, just approach the man, that’s what he’s there for!

And what a difference 15 months makes eh, back then my wife was taking young, unknown but future first-team players Micah Richards, Stephen Ireland and Jonathan D'Laryea shopping for jeans and last night Micah was turning out for England – oh, and the wife says Micah takes 34” waist / 34” leg, in case you were interested.

[totlanh]

CITY'S RIGHT OF REPLY

In McV 1273 (mcivta.city-fan.org ), Ian Barton claimed City Chief Executive Alistair Mackintosh made an alleged derogatory remark about the supporters who attend Points of Blue. We understand that there was no truth in this and Ian should not have included it in the article. We have also been assured that Ian's allegation that City's Head of Communications, Paul Tyrrell, has asked club officials not to attend supporters meetings is also completely untrue. We are happy to set the record straight.

And here is the club's response:

Paul Tyrrell - Ian Barton's offering to Mcivta 1273 was high on opinions and raised some relevant discussion topics - although I welcome his decision to withdraw some of his more wild, inaccurate and distasteful comments.

I will endeavour to respond to his more reasonable questions and have done so underneath the original text of his note.

Ian Barton - 1. Relationship with Supporters

The first problem is the erosion of the close relationship which the Club enjoys with the fans. This is at an all time low; the sound bite "Supporting our Supporters" appears a distant memory. The Club has built its bedrock of support through being accessible to its fans but it appears that over the past 2-3 years the drawbridges have been pulled up. When the Club was at its lowest ebb the huge support it received was acknowledged as being its saviour. The close affinity with supporters groups, which had been fostered for many years, is now weak and the powers that be are resentful of the need to meet with fans.

Paul Tyrrell - The drawbridges are still down - always have been, always will be. Every official at the Club is immensely proud of the accessibility our supporters have to their Club. No other Club in the Premiership and probably Championship does as much open communicating with its supporters.

In Charlton's matchday programme last Saturday the Addicks were shouting about a new idea - Iain Dowie attending a Q&A session with fans. We have been doing 3 or 4 of them every season for years…

On top of these 'open mike' sessions, we hold supporters branch meetings at the stadium in which a first team player will attend. The Chairman and Chief Executive have even laid on free bus travel for branches in the Manchester area. This is the only difference since those dark days of Division 2 - namely we now bus supporters in, rather than send a player out.

We actively send officials to branch meetings throughout the Greater Manchester area and beyond.

Our first team squad has an annual signing session with the London and South East -based Blues followed by a Q&A session with the Manager and a Board member.

We meet regularly at Points of Blue with supporters selected by their peers to represent your interests. At these meetings, we discuss any issue raised - from the price of a pint to the cost of controlling the Club.

The Chairman, Chief Executive and Head of Operations met with OSC officials this week to discuss a wide range of topics - only a week after a Points of Blue meeting. On the same evening I paid a trip to the West Yorkshire CSA branch.

We still, unlike most other Premiership Clubs, have an open-door policy at Carrington (apart from the day before a game) during which supporters can meet players and staff.

On a match day - players enter the stadium via the front door of the Colin Bell stand (not through the back door as at other Clubs).

Ian Barton - 2. Attendances

Many other areas require attention but the evidence of the problem can be seen with the reduction in Season Card sales from 35500 in our first year at Eastlands to around 26250 now. I don't know of many businesses that could be comfortable with a 25%+ drop in business in such a short space of time. In our first season at Eastlands the gates were at 98% of capacity, last season they were down to 89% and the trend seems likely to continue. My fears are for a long lasting impact on future gates. Scores of Fans have been put off attending matches due to the complex ticketing policy and the difficulty in obtaining tickets on a game-by-game basis. The recently announced Live 4 City scheme is to be applauded but is probably several years too late.

Paul Tyrrell - We, like most other football clubs, have experienced a recent down-turn in attendances although our gates here at Sportcity are generally higher than they were at Maine Road. Only three times since the end of the Second World War did our Maine Road average season attendance reach 40,000. (1948, 1977 and 1978). There are many potential reasons for this and they are probably cumulative. They include: TV scheduling, on-field performance and increasing competition in the sport and entertainment industry. We could sit back and accept this, but we don't.

Our pricing structure for seasoncard and matchday tickets is always extremely competitive. We have imposed price freezes on seasoncards since we moved into the stadium; introduced a whole raft of new, sliding scale, seasoncard prices for youngsters - starting from as little as £95 and have dramatically reduced ticket prices for some home cup games (sometimes ignoring FA pricing to subsidise matches for our fans).

I do not believe our ticketing process is complex - although the perception may be different, and therefore we must continue to work on that. One click on the home page of our Club website gives you every piece of information you could possibly require. For those people without internet access, a call to 0870 0621894 will do exactly the same job.

Your negative attitude towards our Live4City scheme is shared neither by the 7,000+ youngsters who have joined the initiative, nor by the 2,000 young people who turned up on the last day of the half term holidays to see an open training session, meet the players and get autographs to their hearts content.

Ian Barton - 3. Finances / Team Building

We have been told for a few years that our debt is manageable yet having sold our 2 best players in the last 18 months we have not replaced them with anything approaching comparable quality. If we cannot afford our debt repayment then the situation is more understandable but if we have been told the truth then we cannot afford a policy of debt reduction without investing in team strengthening. It would be a great shame if some of the highly talented youngsters were to fade due to lack of experienced support. They are the bedrock of our future but they need help. The policy of being a selling Club will not help attract or even retain talent. We must not become a mere stepping-stone for the best young players in years.

Paul Tyrrell - Our debt is manageable and well structured. There are other Premiership Clubs carrying considerably more debt than we have.

It should be remembered that the reason why we sold both the players I assume Ian is referring to (Anelka and Wright-Phillips) is that both of them indicated, in the strongest possible terms, that they did not wish to play for the football club. Our ambition to retain our homegrown talent is epitomised by the successful efforts we made to re-sign Academy graduates Joey Barton, Micah Richards, Danny Sturridge and Michael Johnson, despite the envious attention from others.

Ian Barton - The failure to invest last season cost us several millions in lost prize money, disappointing when we had built such a solid base early in the season.

The acquisition of say Didi Hamann or Danny Murphy last winter could have m ade a significant difference. Go back 3 years we had a well-balanced midfield of Wright Phillips, Foe, Bernarbia & Berkovic none of whom have been adequately replaced. I recall mentioning the name of Riquelme to a Club official when he was being offered on loan, we failed to get him, how much difference could he have made?

Paul Tyrrell - We did invest heavily in the last financial year to the tune of net expenditure reaching £10.3m on player transfer fees. Our wages budget remains in the higher echelon of the Premiership, even if our performances last season did not accurately reflect this.

Our spending on the MCFC Academy is one of the highest in British football.

Ian Barton - The major question here is what is our policy? Pure debt reduction or are we to balance that against reasonable investment to improve the team and its performance? Surely a statement of intent would be a huge help to Management and Supporters alike. What are the Clubs aspirations, where do we want to be?

Under David Bernstein there was an avowed intention, now the Club appears to be run by an Accountant and we have no idea of its direction. Colin Savage's excellent Financial Reviews highlighted the fact that our Chief Executive Alistair Mackintosh is also on the Accounts Committee which poses major questions about checks and balances. I personally doubt that despite the sale of SWP for £21m last season that the debt has been significantly reduced which leads me to suspect that we will be a selling Club for years to come.

Paul Tyrrell - A slightly more than cursory glance at our recent Annual Report and Accounts reveals that external debt has been reduced by more than 16%, while we invested heavily in both transfer fees and the wage bill. John Wardle and David Makin's fantastic financial support of the Club has continued with neither of them taking a penny back, in repayments or interest, of the money they have loaned.

Ian Barton - 4. Back Room Staff

As previously stated we suffered badly through injuries last season and to date this season the picture is equally bleak which poses the question is the Manager happy that his medical staff is of sufficient quality and sufficiently well qualified? Under Rob Harris I cannot recall so many problems.

Paul Tyrrell - Our medical staff, and the results they achieve are the envy of the sports industry. Who says? Medical staff at Arsenal, England and England Rugby Union have all recently asked to assess our techniques because we get players back from injury, safely and in the shortest possible time.

Ian Barton - Is the Manager happy with his coaching team? He has made some changes but is this what he requires? The Manager has had to work under conditions which no other City boss in recent times has had to tolerate. The Board have not supported him adequately in the market and he has to live on scraps. We cannot compete with the likes of Bolton, Wigan, West Ham, Spurs, Fulham, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Everton, Aston Villa, Birmingham or even Southampton. None of these teams can be seriously considered bigger fish than us. Our gates are well in excess of all of these.

Paul Tyrrell - The Manager is happy with his coaching staff. A transfer budget of more than £10m and a wage bill which is higher than most Premiership Clubs is hardly feeding off the scraps.

Ian Barton - 5. Inwards Investment

The question of Investors in the Club is vital. It is understood that Abramovich's are thin on the ground but what leads have there been in that field, how has Mr Mackintosh faired? It is understood that Guydamak looked at City before going to Portsmouth, what went wrong there? Why are Ray Ranson and Niall Quinn looking elsewhere with their consortia? Have the likes of Trevor Birch who lined up the Chelsea deal been contacted?

Paul Tyrrell - The Chairman has always said he would not stand in the way of credible inward investment.

Ian Barton - What value has the work in China yielded?

Paul Tyrrell - The Manager prefers to take the first team squad abroad for a 'boot camp'style preparation to the season. We visited China on pre-season tour and were paid a fee to take part in a tournament.

Ian Barton - It would appear that there is a change in the air with regards to football investment given what has happened at such Clubs as Aston Villa and the rumoured moves at Liverpool. It is essential that City respond quickly.

Ian Barton - 5. Perceptions

The image which a Club projects can make a huge difference to the publics perceived view. This can mean the difference between the average supporter believing his Club is going places and feeling hopelessness, which is our current mode. Furthermore it can influence players and staff in terms of joining a Club or even re signing for the Club. In the Bernstein era there was a great feel good factor engendered by everyone from the Chairman and Chris Bird to Kevin Keegan which permeated to the Supporters and then to the media. At present we have no perceivable feel good factor, one wonders what the PR department is doing, are the Board addressing this problem? I fear not. Where is the leadership? where are the statements from the top? Where is the excitement?

As an example a friend of mine recently bought his son the new shirt and asked him who's name he would like on the back, his reply was that he would leave it blank, a sure fire indication that this 12 year old could see no star quality in the team. Gone are the exciting times of Anelka, Wright Phillips, Bernarbia and Berkovic. Who is exciting the youngsters now?

In essence I am concerned on many levels but I earnestly believe that at the present time we are a Club who has turned its back on the Supporters, has no Direction let alone Strategy, no media savvy and is looking increasingly in free fall. Please note that this is not a reaction to our desperate start to the season as the basis of my comments was prepared in early summer. I could probably write a huge volume on this subject but have tried to be brief and to the point, the issues which I have highlighted can be supported by hard facts. I know many die hard fans who have made supporting City their life's love but are now turning away, that is a huge indictment of the current Board.

It is vital that strong action is taken immediately to arrest the situation by those in charge making sweeping changes to the policy within the Club.The first fundamental change would be to become more open and Supporter friendly, only by fostering the goodwill of the fans can we hope to move forward, a policy which past regimes embraced to good effect. The fans should be kept aware of the strategy of the Club, if it is debt repayment then be honest, if it is to be a balanced plan then it would not be giving away trade secrets. I do not kid myself that I know the answers to high finance but I do know that if your product deteriorates and your customers/ clients become dissatisfied then you are on a slippery slope.

Paul Tyrrell - It would be wrong of me to identify who are heroes in our squad, but there is a real source of pride from most supporters, and all staff, about the number and quality of home-grown players who make our first team. Since Stuart Pearce became manager, he has fielded 11 Academy graduates - a testimony to everybody at Platt Lane.

The Chairman's statement in the Annual Report makes our strategy and aims crystal clear. Mr Wardle says: "Whilst Premiership survival remains an objective, it alone does not represent a successful season for Manchester City Football Club."

This means we are a progressive Club looking to build on a record stay in the Premiership and the stability that that brings - which was our aim during the years of Mr Bernstein's Chairmanship. It also means that we will look to progress in cup competitions, as we did in the FA Cup last year. Finally, it means that we will continue with our quest for silverware which everybody associated with the Club craves.

But our Club is much more than that. Manchester City FC is recognised as a part of the Manchester community. A football Club that understands its responsibilities and a Club which remembers its heritage.

It is of concern to me that Mr Barton feels that we are not 'media savvy.'

However, his claim is not backed up by any facts. I would hope, and I firmly believe, that any respectable or reputable member of the media would disagree with him. They would certainly say that we are a Club who remembers and values our tradition and history, whilst being forward-looking and thoroughly professional.

I know they would say that the officials of the Club are true custodians of our great institution and our supporters are passionate, loyal and fair.

Paul Tyrrell (paul.tyrrell at mcfc.co.uk)

I read with great interest the comments ABOVE from Ian Barton McV 1273 and the reply on behalf of the club by Paul Tyrrell in McV 1275.

Ian was obviously well within his rights to voice those opinions which many fans would identify with, and I for one appreciated Paul’s enlightening response.

I greatly appreciate the fact that the club’s officials read our comments, and appreciate our concerns enough to respond to an open forum – I very seriously doubt if there are many clubs, if any, in the Premiership that would make the effort to do so and I value that.

I should add that I have met Paul Tyrell and some of his staff (Danny and others) during the City tour of Thailand a season back. I sent an email to the club months before the tour asking would it be possible for my wife (Thai), our two little boys and myself to meet the players. Not only did Paul reply, but on their arrival he was very open to my offer of local help, arranged for us to meet all the players at training (our three year old as he was then, became an overnight David James and Sun Jihai fan after meeting them), arranged complimentary tickets for the games for us and guests (a Chelsea supporter and wife who marvelled at the club’s accessibility to its supporters which he was adamant would never happen at Chelsea past or present), and made my wife and some of her married-to-fellow-expat girlfriend’s week by accepting their offer of use of their Thai-language skills to accompany the players on a shopping-trip to help navigate them safely around Bangkok’s myriad shops and bargain prices for them. Fantastic experience for a life-long Blue and I repeat, we didn’t offer any help initially to Paul but he was extremely accommodating from day one in our exchange in offering me so much access to the club and I like to think we were able to ‘scratch each other’s backs’ a little.

So if you have a grievance, point to make, whatever, just approach the man, that’s what he’s there for!

And what a difference 15 months makes eh, back then my wife was taking young, unknown but future first-team players Micah Richards, Stephen Ireland and Jonathan D'Laryea shopping for jeans and last night Micah was turning out for England – oh, and the wife says Micah takes 34” waist / 34” leg, in case you were interested.

Thanks for that BredburyBlue,sure was an interesting read.Cany say i agree with a lot of what was said infact i would go as far as saying at times Paul Tyrell(imho)was talking out of his rear end however as you rightly state most clubs would not appear to have such open communication .

[helicoptor]

Keep the Faith Boys, early days, lets not push the panic button JUST yet, we, as lowly citizens can identify the areas to strengthen and i'm sure SP and staff know as well; limited funds is the concern as with most midtable prem clubs; The worry now is Micah playing intl footy, in the spotlight = big clubs come sniffing , agents romancing him etc City unfortunately are a selling club , SWP the main example. more support arriving December (me!) so would like to know where MCFC main watering hole is

[bendix]

Ive never really understood why City are a selling club. You get 40k ever week plus all the tv money. I can't see that your wage bill would be particularly excessive . . why, then, are you always seeming to be in financial disarray?

As a Leeds fan, I know all about financial disarray.

By the way, can we stop paying Danny Mills' salary yet?

[totlanh]

Keep the Faith Boys, early days, lets not push the panic button JUST yet, we, as lowly citizens can identify the areas to strengthen and i'm sure SP and staff know as well; limited funds is the concern as with most midtable prem clubs; The worry now is Micah playing intl footy, in the spotlight = big clubs come sniffing , agents romancing him etc City unfortunately are a selling club , SWP the main example. more support arriving December (me!) so would like to know where MCFC main watering hole is

You are on the money in relation to Micah and did you know are great leader SP allowed a get out clause in his 4 year contract.IE,If a club wanted him he could leave,what a prat SP is!!!(dont get me started )

[totlanh]

Just found this-interesting..............?

Power to the people

Chris Bailey

David BernsteinDAVID Bernstein has been approached by concerned City fans anxious to help turn around the club's fortunes.

The group of supporters are canvassing opinion behind the scenes among high profile Blues and shareholders including former chairman Bernstein.

M.E.N. Sport is aware that the fans' group, founded by Guernsey-based business manager Ollie Goddard, Miles Webber, a financial executive and fellow supporters Colin Savage and Colin Howell, wants to form a trust that they hope will lead to representation on the board and encourage investment into the Blues who will confirm a debt of £51m - £32m of it external - when they hold their annual meeting at the beginning of next month.

The former City chairman has often been linked with a return to the club after departing midway through Kevin Keegan's reign as manager leaving major shareholder John Wardle to take over the reins.

The Trust move began on www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk when Goddard expressed his concern about the club. That led to many supporters of like-minded opinion contacting him and the four fans got together.

Two of the prime movers are believed to have spoken to Bernstein in London yesterday, though it is not clear what if any new role the fans' group would hope him to play.

The former supremo has since broken his three-year silence.

"Over the last few months I have numerous calls from supporters and supporters' groupings expressing unhappiness over a wide range of issues and the club's general direction," verified Bernstein to M.E.N. Sport. "These concerns appear to be increasing and it worries me that so many people feel this way."

City's bosses, meanwhile, have already broadly welcomed the Supporters' Trust initiative and have opened talks and met with them though they believe that many of the group's objectives are already being fulfilled. It is not known whether the group's meeting with Bernstein will affect the nascent relationship.

Blues spokesman Paul Tyrrell said last night: "We are in constructive dialogue with the people who are behind the 0idea. However, it is important to keep a perspective on their ambitions.

"Trusts do a great job at the lower end of the football pyramid, but the high financial stakes in the Premier League somewhat limit their potential effectiveness - as we have seen at other top flight clubs.

"All our fans must be clear that there does not appear to be any significant investors or investment opportunities associated with this group of well meaning people.

"Most of their stated aims are being delivered by Manchester City - day in, day out."

Trusts have had notable success in the lower divisions, at Brentford and Northampton for example, and in non-league but the Premiership is new ground and the group would have to find in the region of £80m to gain total control and wipe out the debts.

The Blues have historically shown that they are open to new initiatives having in the past incorporated a "fan on the board."

The group hoping to make an impact at City are planning an open public meeting in the New Year at a venue yet to be decided. They would like it to be at Eastlands.

Also in the pipeline are presentations to the Blues various supporters' associations, official and otherwise, and they may also go out to individual branches.

They are communicating mainly by electronic newsletter and by a blog but they have planned a website and say they registered MCFCSupportersTrust.co.uk and .com.

Savage 51, from Prestwich said last night: "We are not a sack-the-board movement.

"Our primary objective is to re-engage the supporters of Manchester City. We are at the planning and investigatory stage and we have spoken to many, many people associated with the club asking for help and advice."

Objective

Confirming the group had been in touch with Bernstein, Savage refused to confirm or deny whether they had spoken to another former chairman Francis Lee.

Savage said: "Our next objective is to speak to the supporters' group. This has always been part of our plan."

Savage, a City fan for 40 years said that they have not had a face to face meeting with City directors but had been in contact.

Goddard describes himself on the blog as an avid fan and Manchester City shareholder He explains that Supporters' Trusts are set up to promote and support the concept of democratic supporter ownership and representation though mutual not for profit structures.

They are also set up to promote football clubs as civic and community institutions and work to preserve the competitive values of league football in the United Kingdom and promoting the health of the game.

"I, many fans and shareholders feel that such an organisation should be put in place at our great club," he wrote.

"We have raised the possibility of a Supporters' Trust with the club.

"According to the latest figures available approximately 5,000 individuals and nominees own 33 per cent of the club but do not have a representative on the board or a voice.

"A trust does not require the backing of the club. Supporters' Direct, a Government backed agency to promote Supporters' Trusts, are backing our bid to set one up."

Edited November 16, 2006 by totlanh

[helicoptor]

Keep the Faith Boys, early days, lets not push the panic button JUST yet, we, as lowly citizens can identify the areas to strengthen and i'm sure SP and staff know as well; limited funds is the concern as with most midtable prem clubs; The worry now is Micah playing intl footy, in the spotlight = big clubs come sniffing , agents romancing him etc City unfortunately are a selling club , SWP the main example. more support arriving December (me!) so would like to know where MCFC main watering hole is

You are on the money in relation to Micah and did you know are great leader SP allowed a get out clause in his 4 year contract.IE,If a club wanted him he could leave,what a prat SP is!!!(dont get me started )

Clauses in contracts are the norm nowadays unfortunately, loyality is a dying breed in modern football, its normally the AGENTS insistence this is included, I wouldn't get yourself in a twist about it, Keep the faith in SP, remember when he started, the good run we had, ever1 thought he was the Messiah!, What options do we have? Ian Dowie? NO THANKS.. Ugly MF for one thing Curbishley? maybe but lets wait and see, at least until the end of January, I think we are gonna be alright (ever the optimist, me )

[mrbojangles]

Whilst we are on the subject. from skysports

Manchester City defender Micah Richards could become embroiled in a £1 million legal dispute, according to reports.

Richards has insisted he is happy with agents SEM after his former representatives announced they were taking legal action against him for breach of contract.

Reports have claimed that Richards was represented by Team Associates throughout his time at City's academy, but then broke an existing contract to join SEM not long after his 18th birthday in June.

SEM subsequently negotiated the lucrative four-year contract Richards signed with City at the start of the season.

Team Associates have now decided to take action following Richards' debut for England on Wednesday, with managing director Andy Hobson confirming they had begun legal proceedings.

"There is a legal action against Micah," Hobson told the Daily Mail.

"He is under contract with us and we are actively pursuing the action against the player.

"It is costing us a lot of money but we feel we have to make a stand against things like this. We will see what the judge says.

"It's demoralising really, but we are doing this for all the right reasons.

"He is a lovely lad, but it has all changed for Micah - he is a commodity now."

Richards has dismissed the suggestion that he is still under contract with Team Associates and underlined his commitment to SEM.

"I would like to confirm I am exclusively represented by the SEM Group and I am very happy to be with them and intend to continue being represented by them," Richards said in a statement.

[mrbojangles]

And this:-

Micah Richards's impressive England debut has given Steve McClaren considerable food for thought, according to captain John Terry.

The Manchester City starlet became his country's youngest ever defender in Wednesday's friendly draw with Holland, and gave a composed display as he stood in for injured right-back Gary Neville.

Richards' performance has been praised from all corners and now Three Lions skipper Terry has joined the chorus by hailing the 18-year-old for his mature performance against Marco van Basten's outfit.

Indeed, Chelsea star Terry believes McClaren now has a real conundrum on his hands when Neville returns from fitness.

"Micah did fantastically well. He looked as if he had been playing there for two or three years and full credit to him for that," said Terry.

"He has been playing very well for Manchester City but, coming into the England side, there was a lot of pressure on the young lad but he did excellently.

"When these young players come into the squad now, they are so confident and in a nice way, not an arrogant way.

"He is confident in his own ability and he showed that.

"He has created a problem for the boss now. He has cemented his place. He will certainly be in and around the next squad."

Terry also praised Richards for the way in which he marshalled Chelsea winger Arjen Robben at the Amsterdam ArenA.

"One on one defensively, I don't think anyone got past him," Terry added.

"He was also very calm on the ball, didn't really give the ball away, won his headers and against two of the most fantastic wingers in the world, to see Micah coming out on top is very pleasing.

"Robben is a very difficult player to mark but didn't really get around Micah at all. He was different class.

"It is exciting when someone like Micah comes in and does so well.

"It must give other players watching the confidence that they can reach that target and, if they are playing well, they will get their chance."

Richards only became a first team regular at Eastlands in February, and his meteoric progression has also impressed England goalkeeper Paul Robinson.

"Micah did very well. It was not an easy game to come into for your first game and he coped exceptionally well. It looked as if he had been there for a while," said Robinson.

"He did not look nervous beforehand. He was as cool as a cucumber to be honest with you.

"He took all the lads advice onboard before kick-off, went out there and did a very good job.

"It is only a few months since his debut for Manchester City and to come in and not look out of place in a game like that against a top side is great credit to him."

[mrbojangles]

And even Rio Ferdinand has backed England newcomer Micah Richards to be a star of the future. (notice how i put Rio's name in RED for you United guys)

Manchester City teenager Richards made his debut in The Three Lions' 1-1 draw with Holland on Wednesday and earned rave reviews for a mature showing.

Richards has been tipped as the long-term successor to Gary Neville at right back, and Ferdinand has no doubts he will continue on an upward curve.

Ferdinand, who won his first England cap as a 19-year-old, was impressed by Richards' pace and power and sees a bright future for the youngster.

"He looks like a great athlete. He can play in a number of positions and looks to have all the attributes to be a top player," he praised.

"I always say to kids like him that it is your first season and it is easy in your first season.

"People know your game after that but I think Richards will stand the test of time because he is quality."

[redrus]

Micah's on his way to United according to reports, £150 and a knock off darts trophy, we knocked the darts off and bent the guys foot forward............!

redrus

[JacknDanny]

Corradi?????????????????

What a numpty eh!!!!!!!!!

Come on you blues

Totlanh where are you??

[mrbojangles]

3-1 that'll do for me

and only the first goal we have let in this season.

[totlanh]

Corradi?????????????????

What a numpty eh!!!!!!!!!

Come on you blues

Totlanh where are you??

Im all too happy to eat some humble pie and am equally glad that on Saturday Corradi looked a "class act",indeed the whole City team for the first time this season(certainly in the first half anyway)gelled and played some super football.I am however loathe to say that i am encouraged because Jack you know as well as most City supporters we flatter to decieve and until we put together a run of unbeaten games preferably winning these games im not goimg to start dancing up and down.I know that sounds negative but history will support my views,but i still say COME ON CITY!!!and i.ll be a Blue till i die!!!!

[Bredbury Blue]

"Totlanh", what does "Totlanh" mean?

Corradi had an excellent game, and it must help having a partner and two fast wide men. I really like the look of Trabelsi. It was also a nice cameo by Nedum alla Danny Mills earlier in the season but what does S. Ireland have to do to get a game?

Shame we're away next, and at the scousers, as we'll no doubt have to change that team, but i wouldn't be too upset if that starting 11 starts again though i'd be tempted to play sinclair or some one else who gets more involved than Samaras who's a passenger away from home. Still the scousers aren't invincible so come on you Blues!

[totlanh]

"Totlanh", what does "Totlanh" mean?

Corradi had an excellent game, and it must help having a partner and two fast wide men. I really like the look of Trabelsi. It was also a nice cameo by Nedum alla Danny Mills earlier in the season but what does S. Ireland have to do to get a game?

Shame we're away next, and at the scousers, as we'll no doubt have to change that team, but i wouldn't be too upset if that starting 11 starts again though i'd be tempted to play sinclair or some one else who gets more involved than Samaras who's a passenger away from home. Still the scousers aren't invincible so come on you Blues!

Totlanh=Good luck in Vietnamese .I would tbh prefer to see Miller paly instead of Sinclair because he is quicker and unlike Sinclar tries to beat his man.Totally agree with you however regarding Ireland,and would drop Reyna,who although is a good holding midfielder we need a good passer such as Ireland who can play a killer ball to unlock defences

[redrus]

Is this Scouse git havin a laugh....!

Barton puts club before country

JOEY Barton would much rather win silverware with City than earn his first England cap.

A string of impressive performances for the Blues has led to speculation over an England call-up for the 24-year-old.

However, Barton is playing down his international chances and is focused on helping City to three points against Liverpool on Saturday.

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Barton told www.mcfc.co.uk: "It’s not for me to decide, that’s for other people. I’d much rather win a trophy here than play for England. I’ll take every game as it comes, in football you are only as good as your last game, and if I don’t do so well next week then we are back to square one.

“It’s not about me, it’s about how this football club does going forward. The better it does, and if I am playing well week-in, week-out then I can’t be ignored much longer. I’ll just keep my head down, keep doing what I need to do for Manchester City and if the call comes, so be it.

Important

“At the minute we are doing quite well, we are happy with the way we are progressing but it’s important not to get too far ahead of yourself. Ultimately it’s all about the next game and that’s all we can take care of.”

Barton made one and scored one in the 3-1 win over Fulham last week, and revealed he was as shocked as the crowd when Bernardo Corradi embarked on his 'knighting' celebrations.

“It wasn’t planned! I don’t know where he got it from, he just kept telling me to go down on one knee. I was delighted for him to score, but it’s always nice to celebrate a goal.

“With my own celebration, I’d been watching a programme about matadors with Blackie, our assistant kit man, so that’s where that came from. It was a pretty poor attempt, but as close as I could get!”

Meanwhile, The Sun have reported that West Ham are lining up a £10m January swoop for Shaun Wright-Phillips.

redrus

*wrong on both counts for me........

Edited November 23, 2006 by redrus

[mrbojangles]

Is this Scouse git havin a laugh....!

In fairness Red, Joey has been playing out of his skin lately. For me, probably man of the match in the last 2 or 3 games

[muckypups]

...JOEY Barton would much rather win silverware with City than earn his first England cap.

Best bet.. nip down the local Bingo Hall and hope he wins a canteen of cutlery...closest he's going to get..

[helicoptor]

My last post on here was along the lines of Keep the faith to all you MCFC pessimists

I hate to say I told you so,.... but I told you so!! 3-1 against Fulham, let the good times roll , next game LFC away, Liverpool did us a favour last night getting three players injured in the Champs League. Pearce should now go for it on Saturday, take the game to them and play with three strikers. What has he got to lose? Before Fulham his tactics have been crap so far this season at home and our away form is abysmal anyway. At least we can go down to Anfield attacking them instead of letting them pummel our goal. Give us something to sing and shout about.