11 million rai of land are to be reclaimed for redistribution to farmers

[Lite Beer]

11 million rai of land are to be reclaimed for redistribution to farmers

BANGKOK: -- The Office of Land Reform for Agriculture has been told by the Agriculture and Agricutural Cooperatives Ministry to seize back some five million rai of sor por kor land which were illegally occupied by non-farmers, said deputy permanent secretary for agriculture Mr Chavalit Chukachorn during the weekend.

In addition, the Forest Department will try to reclaim about six million rai of degraded forest reserves which were illegally encroached and turned into rubber plantations.

All the 11 million rai of illegally occupied land which are now under process of being taken back from their illegal owners will be redistributed to local communities for management and then allocated to the landless poor farmers to make a living under a new land distribution scheme recently endorsed by the National Land Policy Committee headed by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha.

Mr Chavalit disclosed that altogether 30 million rai of land had been distributed to landless farmers for cultivation and five million of them have fallen into the hands of non-farmers who were not supposed to own or exploit the land.

He said that some 300,000 landless farmers had registered with the previous government to apply for land for cultivation.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/11-million-rai-land-reclaimed-redistribution-farmers/

-- Thai PBS 2014-11=09

[MaiChai]

Who will be judge and jury on those who should loose land and those who should be given land? Me thinks this has been done before and exploited by those with power who can assert some muscle and claim the land?

[Thai at Heart]

Ooooh, there will be a lot of people with 2nd or 3rd hand soh por gor clenching up now.

Isn't that title not meant to be transferable?

[RustBucket]

First of all, when you retake the land, make sure you demolish every structure on it, and claim all the property on that land and put the illegal holders on the blacklist for future land distribution. Ban them from owning anything less than chanote status.

Also put the people on the blacklist who illegally sold allotted land in the first place. They had no right to sell land.

All free land given to the poor must be put on a blacklist at the land office and can never be sold.

Ban anyone renting allotted land to others from ever being allotted land ever again and evict them.

[Sarathi]

Could put Suthep in charge of it - last time he was given this job he wound up selling the land to Phuket's 11 richest families, and bringing down a government in the process.

[ChrisY1]

Could put Suthep in charge of it - last time he was given this job he wound up selling the land to Phuket's 11 richest families, and bringing down a government in the process.

It would be only a rough guess.........but I would imagine there would be hundreds that have sold illegally aquired land on......yes..Suthep is a big name for sure.......but this has been going on for aeons!

Edited November 9, 2014 by ChrisY1

[bangkokfrog]

Could put Suthep in charge of it - last time he was given this job he wound up selling the land to Phuket's 11 richest families, and bringing down a government in the process.

It would be only a rough guess.........but I would imagine there would be hundreds that have sold illegally aquired land on......yes..Suthep is a big name for sure.......but this has been going on for aeons!

I beg to disagree... THOUSANDS !!!

[ColdSingha]

"5 million rai illegally occupied by non-farmers"

developed?

Edited November 9, 2014 by ColdSingha

[Showbags]

Give it all back....so they can sell it again...

[JOC]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

[Orac]

When they say occupied by non-farmers are they including land that is rented out to others where the owner does not farm it themselves - if so they are looking at a lot more that 5m rai.

[worgeordie]

What about a 100-200 wah for Farangs to buy,asking too much maybe.

regards worgeordie

[CWMcMurray]

So let's get this straight ... This used to be land owned by farmers.... But now owned by non farmers...

So presumably the land was sold by the original farmers who owned the land (illegally) and the transfer was signed off by government official in area land office (illegally) ....

And the bad guy is the one who bought it?

And the plan is to take it from the person who bought the land and give it back to the people who sold it the first time?

Any charges to be placed against those who sold the land illegally ?

Any charges to be placed against the presumably corrupt government officer that signed off on the transfer of ownership?

[robblok]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

[recycled]

So let's get this straight ... This used to be land owned by farmers.... But now owned by non farmers...

So presumably the land was sold by the original farmers who owned the land (illegally) and the transfer was signed off by government official in area land office (illegally) ....

And the bad guy is the one who bought it?

And the plan is to take it from the person who bought the land and give it back to the people who sold it the first time?

Any charges to be placed against those who sold the land illegally ?

Any charges to be placed against the presumably corrupt government officer that signed off on the transfer of ownership?

No, because their IQ voids them from understanding the basics.

[JOC]

Instead of this old stupid populist stunt, that never have worked, why not try something new!!

Establish huge stateowned farms, with all the latest in knowhow and machinery. Employ the "landless farmers" and pay them a wage, they can live on. Bonus on the netprofit to be shared amongst the employees. Give them half a rai to build a house on within the farm, which only can be sold on to someone, who also want to join the farm venture.

Just giving land to someone doesn't make them farmers. Clearly proven by the fact, that Vietnams paddyfields yield almost the double of those in Thailand per rai!!

[willyumiii]

So let's get this straight ... This used to be land owned by farmers.... But now owned by non farmers...

So presumably the land was sold by the original farmers who owned the land (illegally) and the transfer was signed off by government official in area land office (illegally) ....

And the bad guy is the one who bought it?

And the plan is to take it from the person who bought the land and give it back to the people who sold it the first time?

Any charges to be placed against those who sold the land illegally ?

Any charges to be placed against the presumably corrupt government officer that signed off on the transfer of ownership?

A member of the wife's family recently went to the government office to transfer ownership of some farm land to another family member.

She had been through this process before.

When she asked how much the "fee"for the land transfer would be, the government employee in the office got a little nervous said

" No fee now..can not pay fee with new government."

Things are changing!

[JOC]

Could put Suthep in charge of it - last time he was given this job he wound up selling the land to Phuket's 11 richest families, and bringing down a government in the process.

If you promise he will bring down the government this time as well, no doubt he is the right man for the job!!

[BirdsandBooze]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

They're tenant farmers. A friend of mine is a farmer back in Devon. He doesn't own the 200 acres he farms, he rents it from a wealthy landowner but he's still a farmer.

[Ozziepat]

Who are the legal owners of these millions of rai, if the present owners have been declared illegal? It seems to me the land is either legally public, meaning it is a national asset effectively owned by all Thai people (parks and preserves fall into this category), or it has legitimate private owners (present or not), in which case they have prior legal claim. Reading the article it seems there is a strange third category: land that doesn't belong to anyone so the junta/government has directed itself to give it away to recipients selected by the junta/government. Strangeness.

[JOC]

What about a 100-200 wah for Farangs to buy,asking too much maybe.

regards worgeordie

A matter of national security!!

[englishoak]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

Not really what do you think the point of nor sor sam kor bor etc were in the first place ? same thing as this time

It was never supposed to be sold to make money and be anything but farming land but you know how Thai love to do as they please.

Many will be selling this land before the inks dry on the paper.

Whole lot of talk but in practise unclear how they will enforce land given away be farmed on....

Edited November 9, 2014 by englishoak

[robblok]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

Not really what do you think the point of nor sor sam kor bor etc were in the first place ? same thing as this time

It was never supposed to be sold to make money and be anything but farming land but you know how Thai love to do as they please.

Many will be selling this land before the inks dry on the paper.

Whole lot of talk but in practise unclear how they will enforce land given away be farmed on....

It all depends on the enforcement .. let see how that goes. If its a sham then this project is a sham its that simple. I agree that there is a large chance your right but until the plan is good. Its a give people a way to make a living instead of the handouts the PTP is fond of giving (binds people better).

You do know the expression give a man a fish (PTP style vote buying) or teach them to fish (perfect scenario not sure if this works out this way). So the plan in theory is vastly superior to the PTP handouts, now I will give you this with the track record of Thais it will all come down to enforcement of non sale and non transference.

[Thai at Heart]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

Not really what do you think the point of nor sor sam kor bor etc were in the first place ? same thing as this time

It was never supposed to be sold to make money and be anything but farming land but you know how Thai love to do as they please.

Many will be selling this land before the inks dry on the paper.

Whole lot of talk but in practise unclear how they will enforce land given away be farmed on....

This maybe about returning sor por kor back to its original use. There will be a lot of people very very nervous for along time.

Friend of mine has built a house on some. Other friend has "purchased/leased some" to produce rubber. This will cause a massive mess and many people will get caught up in the grey of the law.

[robblok]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

Not really what do you think the point of nor sor sam kor bor etc were in the first place ? same thing as this time

It was never supposed to be sold to make money and be anything but farming land but you know how Thai love to do as they please.

Many will be selling this land before the inks dry on the paper.

Whole lot of talk but in practise unclear how they will enforce land given away be farmed on....

This maybe about returning sor por kor back to its original use. There will be a lot of people very very nervous for along time.

Friend of mine has built a house on some. Other friend has "purchased/leased some" to produce rubber. This will cause a massive mess and many people will get caught up in the grey of the law.

I can only applaud this.. this means that in the future this will be harder to sell as they know it can be taken back by the government if misused.

This plan is good.. but as the people opposed to it point out it really does depend on how selling and who is elegible is worked out.

But in theory its far better as handouts as this will allow poor people to farm and get money instead of waiting for handouts. It would make it far harder to influence these people because they are self sufficient making their own money not needing handouts (though everyone likes a handout but even more so for desperate people)

[seajae]

wasnt that long ago we had poor farmers that had been given land by the govt then sold it to rich people and then the poor farmers went on to clear and start farming national parks areas . They then demanded the govt give them that land when they were caught using it illegally as they didnt have anywhere else to live BECAUSE they had sold off the land they were originally given. How in the hell can the govt be so stupid that they continue to give these "poor farmers" more land so they can again sell it off then start clearing more national parks. By all means, check them out, if they have already been given land and sold it tell them to go jump, if they are new at this then make sure they understand they do not own it and are not allowed to sell it or give it away or they will face jail time and restitution. Would be much better if they were never given any ownership but simply allowed to work the land with the rights to all money made, at least then they have a permanent home they can never sell/lose.

[JOC]

Wonder if Tarit is going to apply again??

[englishoak]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

Not really what do you think the point of nor sor sam kor bor etc were in the first place ? same thing as this time

It was never supposed to be sold to make money and be anything but farming land but you know how Thai love to do as they please.

Many will be selling this land before the inks dry on the paper.

Whole lot of talk but in practise unclear how they will enforce land given away be farmed on....

It all depends on the enforcement .. let see how that goes. If its a sham then this project is a sham its that simple. I agree that there is a large chance your right but until the plan is good. Its a give people a way to make a living instead of the handouts the PTP is fond of giving (binds people better).

You do know the expression give a man a fish (PTP style vote buying) or teach them to fish (perfect scenario not sure if this works out this way). So the plan in theory is vastly superior to the PTP handouts, now I will give you this with the track record of Thais it will all come down to enforcement of non sale and non transference.

Well like I say this is what the various land titles were always about originally. Its not really anything new just recycled nor is it clear if its just another suggestion or will actually happen. It is imo a handout that in the main will be resold as soon as they can.

I have lost count the amount of times we've been offered non Chanote land ridiculously cheap under nor sor or kor bor and always maintained when they (the authorities )want it they can just take it, so no thanks go find another mug. Im sure some will be wondering if that little gamble has ruined their lifes savings.

Unless theres a comprehensive system where the land remains owned by the state and is earmarked for specific names that also have to be renewed with the same owner on a regular basis its likely to be a mess.... Id like to be able to say Thais can be more responsible but tbh its unlikely. Might take a few years but 5 years on and id be willing to bet 50% of any free land will have been cashed out on somehow. In that way its nothing different regarding populist handouts and I dont really care whos responsible PTP or otherwise I have no respect or love for any of them.

Anything given away for free here is usually turned into cash asap and not used as intended.

Then again as far as charities are concerned its being proven direct cash donations to the poor directly rather than for projects or items provided often works far better so maybe a few less poor farmers wont be so bad anyway...........

The other question of course is where exactly this land is regarding location and is it actually farmable land anyway ?

[Smokemachine]

How to define the people who are farmers without crop land?

[Thai at Heart]

Still don't understand, if you don't have land, how can you claim to be a farmer??

300.000 to share 11 million rai, that is 37 rai per "farmer", more than the average landownership of farmers, who actually paid for their land!! Who said, hard work pays??

It does not but they will not be able to sell this land. So it wont make them wealthy, but they can make a living as farmer. Sounds good to me. That is in a perfect world where the land is really given to farmers. (yes I am a cynic too). The plan is good.. but will see if it works out good.

Not really what do you think the point of nor sor sam kor bor etc were in the first place ? same thing as this time

It was never supposed to be sold to make money and be anything but farming land but you know how Thai love to do as they please.

Many will be selling this land before the inks dry on the paper.

Whole lot of talk but in practise unclear how they will enforce land given away be farmed on....

This maybe about returning sor por kor back to its original use. There will be a lot of people very very nervous for along time.

Friend of mine has built a house on some. Other friend has "purchased/leased some" to produce rubber. This will cause a massive mess and many people will get caught up in the grey of the law.

I can only applaud this.. this means that in the future this will be harder to sell as they know it can be taken back by the government if misused.

This plan is good.. but as the people opposed to it point out it really does depend on how selling and who is elegible is worked out.

But in theory its far better as handouts as this will allow poor people to farm and get money instead of waiting for handouts. It would make it far harder to influence these people because they are self sufficient making their own money not needing handouts (though everyone likes a handout but even more so for desperate people)

Well sor por kor has been changing hand for years, so I guess what they have on record will just revert back to the govt. But there are titles of a sort which have been endorsed many times to change who has the right to farm it.

It will be a complete mess.