My Thai wife just had a meltdown

[manly100]

Has anything like this happened to anyone else? And what should be done about it?

After noticing my wife making cash withdrawals regularly over the last few months and observing her paying for most things with efpos card I wondered where all the money was going.

I thought if I was her where would I hide a secret stash of money and gravitated toward the wardrobe. The first jacket I felt located at the far back of the wardrobe had a large wad of cash wrapped in tissues in a pocket. I counted it and put it back.

When my wife came home I showed her the withdrawals on the bank statement and asked what she did with all the money. She mentioned something about face cream she purchased. I put it to her it was good to save money but not secretly and ask her to show me the money she had secreted away.

After much fuss she finally dug into the pile of clothes at the bottom of the wardrobe and retrieved a large wad of cash.

I couldn't help but think as this was a different wad to the one I discovered how many where there?

After I said it was important for our marriage to not have secrets and while it was good we saved we needed to save money together and not in secret. So therefore she needs to show me the rest of the money she had hidden.

She proceeded to go thermo-nuclear and in almost comical display of tears and rage laid out a litany of financial issues including amongst much else, that she needed the money to see her farther when he died, or that she needed the money for our daughters savings, or that if I died (and I’m only middle aged) the money would take care of her and on and on.

Now I suppose I could be wrong here but after 8 years of marriage I think this sort of behavior makes for a difficult marriage ahead for me, and I was hoping this marriage would last my lifetime.

[A1Str8]

I hope you know that you need to leave that woman as soon as possible, right?

She takes your money, hides it, Lies about it, lies to you. We all know very well that it wasn't for the daughter etc. If it was she would have told you, honey i need to put some money away for this and that and just be honest about it.

I bet you the equivalent of the amount she has hidden that she has another man, probably thai and is planning to get out of this relationship.

[Soutpeel]

for me only one of 2 decisions to be made:

1. Walk away right now

2. forgive her for this "oversight" on the understanding one more step out of line your walking and as of now she has no access to the money anymore, your handing the cash out for everything

"She proceeded to go thermo-nuclear" this is common reaction when people are caught out lying and cheating, I surprised she didn't blame you, ie she had to steal money, because you don't give her enough money

if in 2. she goes thermo nuclear again because you now holding the purse strings, it will be time to walk..and maybe accept the long game was being played here.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Soutpeel

[AYJAYDEE]

is she in your will?

[rayongchelsea]

Does she work?

[sipi]

Married 8 years with a daughter. I would give her a chance. Maybe she is genuinely worried. She has been caught out and now knows that she can't do that. When she calms down, sit down, have a chat and reassure her. Then start again. I feel sorry for you.

[Costas2008]

OP, I remember the same thing happened to me by my ex-wife that she wasn't Thai.

I had the same reactions as you had from your wife.

My reaction was to change all my bank accounts only to my name, so she couldn't have access.

Then I discovered that money was missing from my wallet.

I put up with her for another 5 years, till the kids grew up, but at the end we got divorced.

That was not the only reason, I got divorced but it contributed a lot in my decision.

[David48]

"She proceeded to go thermo-nuclear" this is common reaction when people are caught out lying and cheating, I surprised she didn't blame you, ie she had to steal money, because you don't give her enough money

Agreeing with Soutpeel here.

Seen that happen before, thankfully not in a relationship I was involved with.

Maybe time for two accounts.

You give your wife the second account which she has the ATM card for and give as much money you believe is needed.

Trust issues like this are difficult to deal with.

My heart goes out to you.

.

[Lucifer]

Eight years of ignorant bliss.

[guzzi850m2]

yes when kids are involved not so easy to just split.

Sit down and have a serious talk with her, what is wrong and so on, good luck.

[HeijoshinCool]

Now I suppose I could be wrong here but after 8 years of marriage I think this sort of behavior makes for a difficult marriage ahead for me, and I was hoping this marriage would last my lifetime.

Did they teach you in school, as a wee lad, when faced with a multiple choice question, always go with your first answer, your gut feeling?

[maprao]

Thermo nuclear and tears is a defense mechanism they all use. Followed by prolonged periods of silence....

[Jaybee2]

While, of course, this is strange behavior, and leads us all to think the worst (for good reason), there are several possibilities. First let me cover those most favorable to your wife:

A) Covertly hiding money is not necessarily an indicator of bad intentions. I can say that categorically because I did it. And, although it was not the final straw that caused my wife to ask me to move out, it was the big event, which moved things (perhaps irrevocably) in that direction. You may ask why I did it? A combination of things, the foremost of which, i could say was directly the result of my wife's actions (she made me do it! lol). We always filed joint taxes, and itemized deductions for our business. She was always extremely aggressive in taking every conceivable deduction, stuff that the same accountant, who was relatively inexperienced then, would never let me take now. Consequently, I was always worried about getting audited. I felt the deductions she insisted on taking were potential red flags, which might trigger an audit, and may not hold up in an audit. I reacted, on account of my basic fear of the IRS, by not depositing all cash proceeds into our bank accounts. That way, if we were ever audited, in my mind, at the very least, it would make it more confusing to the auditors, and worst case, compensate to some degree, for taxes and penalties we might get hit with, on account of her habit of overaggressive deductions.

Well, at least, that is how it started. I will admit that by the time she found the cash (actually only part of it), I was starting to think that it might be a good idea that I was squirreling away cash, as, by that time, the relationship was getting shaky for reasons mostly entirely unrelated to money. I assumed, rightly so, as it turned out, that in a divorce, she would be entirely unreasonable in her demands, would insist on well over 50% of our assets, and I would end up getting screwed. So I figured if I had a little nest egg hidden away, it was only fair, it would not even come close to compensating me for the financial beating I would take in a divorce scenario, because it is her nature to be extremely demanding, aggressive and irrational, when it comes to money matters. She is a person who sees everything 100% slanted in her favor, truly believes that is how it should be, and can never see there are two sides to the story. While I am the opposite, can always see the other person's side, and am of a compromising nature in the long run, in spite of the fact that I can be extremely stubborn in the short run. I can be worn down, she can't.

B.) On your wife's behalf, I will repeat what a very honest Chiang Mai gal (friend, not GF) once told me on the subject of Thai women and money. She said, "Unless you were born into poverty, and grew up very poor, you will never understand what it is like, and how it effects the way a Thai women relates to money." (obviously I am paraphrasing, that is not a direct quote). Having grown up in a lower middle class area, with an extremely tight-fisted German father, was enough to make me understand the truth in her words. I didn't grow up in poverty, and yet, I will confess, that having a big pile of cash in a sock in the back of a lower dresser drawer somehow, aside from the whole tax/marital issues, made me feel secure in some vaguely irrational way. There is nothing quite like cash. Some times I would take it out, look at all that money, count it, and it gave me an inexplicable sense of pleasure to do so.

OK ,so much for making excuses for your wife! lol... She may well be up to no good, and either planning for a split, or feeling the marriage is on a shaky footing.

What you need to do is open your own account, transfer all the funds to your account(s), take away her credit cards/accounts, and give her an allowance. I would never do it any other way with a Thai wife, or any foreign wife, for that matter. And, in fact, even with my farang wife (ex), I always maintained my own accounts, and she had her own account, even though, legally, there was never any question that half the money in my accounts belonged to her (more than half, as it turned out, not surprisingly. lol)

BTW, I did not go thermonuclear when she found the cash stash. I was very calm, a little embarrassed, and totally anticipating that she would not understand any explanation I gave her. In a nutshell, my reaction was, "Yeah, so what? No big deal. It's normal, never know when you might need ready cash." Followed by an abbreviated version of what I wrote above, in a half-hearted way, as I didn't expect her to believe me, even though it was the truth about how I started that habit. The only one time I went thermo, was not about money. That came about when I had a sudden insight, a revelation about how she had for years been using the hard feelings that existed between my father and me, as a means to manipulate me, to sort of steer my behavior to conform to her wishes. My father and I had finally reconciled our differences, finally allowed the love we held for each other, and let it overwhelm our petty differences, and old resentments. Apparently, she had absolutely no idea that this transformation had occurred, since my dad and I are the silent types,when it comes to expressing those sort of emotions, and everything changed between us without there ever being a word spoken. Shortly thereafter, when she tired to use the wedge between my father and I to manipulate me, in an instant, it was all clear to me, how she had been successfully using that technique for years. The rush of emotion I felt upon that sudden realization could not be bottled up, and I went thermo. That was the only time. lol That was about 5 years before we split up.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Jaybee2

[Briggsy]

Private detective.

[sipi]

Our wives need their own money, whether we like it or not. I give my wife money and she stashes it. I pay for everything but she still needs her own money. I don't blame her. Stashing is different to blowing it.

[ExPratt]

The tears and hysterical accusations are all a way of just avoiding saying "I'm sorry I was wrong". When they get caught out the first thing they do is blame you

As she cannot be trusted if I were you I would set up an account for her and then transfer x amount to it each month. It works in 2 ways , firstly your dough is safe , secondly its treating her like a child and letting her know you don't trust or believe her

[manly100]

Yes It seems the comments reinforce my view our marriage is doomed.

Pity really as I'm otherwise happy with my little family. I suppose given what I know now I'm probably living in a one-sided loveless marriage.

What a shame my wife does not see things from an us/together point of view instead of a how-much-I-get/got point of view.

I wonder if her thinking is so entrenched she will never allow herself to live in a normal relationship and is simply unable to accept a relationship based on mutual trust and understanding instead of viewing life as if disaster awaits around every corner and one-self is all that matters.

[EmptyHead]

With kids it's not so easy to split.

If i were you, i'd stay until the kids are old enough to understand and won't be affect much (if at all). After all, you have been (happily?) married for 8 years so it shouldn't kill you to stay.

But do, make sure she can't use your bank account anymore and if you have joint ones then try to get out of that.

Let her get a job or just hand out cash when you think appropriate.

When the kids are old enough, your a bat out of hell sitting in a beerbar with 2 (or 3) hotties.

Play the long game yourself, my son.

Or if things get better/go back to normal, then stay with her.

And whatever you do: don't (do as some other poster said) "talk about it again" - it won't do you any favors.

Be wise grasshopper.

P.S - be wary of any close Thai male friends or family - they may be her BF.

Edited November 14, 2014 by EmptyHead

[tim armstrong]

Nonesty is always the best policy. I don't think your marriage is over. I would firstly be clear about WHY the money is being stashed. maybe you need some Thai assistance on this if possible, from a close relative if you can trust one to be honest with you. Secondly I would find a calm moment , perhaps over a meal for two and tell her that for westerners love and trust go together, and you are a bit hurt that she can't trust you to tell you about money issues.

There are so many issues - she may be a secret gambler and have debts. Maybe she does have a geek, that may still be ok for you, if you want to do the same. You also need to talk to her about what lessons you both want to teach your child - honesty being number one. If you still want to be married to her, take your time and approach the subject gently. Discuss the often difficult issue of a budget for both of you.

Since we have been married -10 years ago, my wife has never had to earn money. But she started to resent the idea that she didn't have money that she earnt herself. So now she has a businesss and is earning some income so she is much happier. So Manly go gently before you pull the plug, and remember you BOTH still have a child.

[pgrahmm]

First off - not enough details....A fair amount of Asian wives have been schooled to do this....alot are schooled to control the money - just in case - might not be the precurser of anything.....

How about you? Are you a partier that likes to partake in exploits than might have triggered the rumor mill and threatened her? How does her family view you - are you crossing sabres with anyone?

Thai wives can have many bosses and they are all in her family - not us as husbands.....they have been programmed since birth....

You need to think of and ask many questions and ask in a diplomatic way and not a ball busting grill session......you may not like the pieces you put together in your head because you will not get a straight blunt answer......it may take a month or more to sort it all piece by piece......keep notes and weigh thoughts.....

Have any other behaviors changed recently? It's all part of the puzzle.......

You've got 8 years invested - not a time to be scorned - enough time to really reflect on what's been trending the past few years.....

Protect yourself subtly at first - get your answers - chart your course.....

Maybe she thinks you're leaving her or lost interest in her - you're both around the 7 year itch time frame.....

You can't think Thai anymore than she can think farang......and it's going to take some thought and perspective......sometimes the one that's happiest is not seeing the other persons dismay......

Good luck to you and your family.....

[manly100]

With kids it's not so easy to split.

If i were you, i'd stay until the kids are old enough to understand and won't be affect much (if at all). After all, you have been (happily?) married for 8 years so it shouldn't kill you to stay.

But do, make sure she can't use your bank account anymore and if you have joint ones then try to get out of that.

Let her get a job or just hand out cash when you think appropriate.

When the kids are old enough, your a bat out of hell sitting in a beerbar with 2 (or 3) hotties.

Play the long game yourself, my son.

Or if things get better/go back to normal, then stay with her.

And whatever you do: don't (do as some other poster said) "talk about it again" - it won't do you any favors.

Be wise grasshopper.

P.S - be wary of any close Thai male friends or family - they may be her BF.

Good advice.

I'm disappointed as I had hoped we could build a future together including buying a house and even having more children but alas that's all folly as my wife just seems incapable of putting what-ever difficulties she experienced in her life behind her, getting on-board and pulling in one-direction together.

I suppose it’s near impossible for a person to change perceptions nurtured in the past even when holding on to destructive beliefs causes irreparable damage to existing and future relationships.

[krisb]

Sit her down and lay all the cards on the table.

Have a good chat and resolve the issue of trust.

Don't get angry, stay calm. At least she wasn't gambling, drinking or drugging the money away.

Kids involved, make the marriage work.

[David48]

To the OP manly100 ... 'a large wad of cash'.

Just what is the sum or quantum of the money are we talking about?

[manly100]

To the OP manly100 ... 'a large wad of cash'.

Just what is the sum or quantum of the money are we talking about?

The one she showed me was 70'000 baht and the one I found was 60'000 baht.

She now says the money is for her business that she wants to open, (a coffee shop) She said she needs to save money as I had told her we didn't have money (about 400'000 baht) for her to start a business at the moment.

I have to say see seems to suffer from severe financial insecurities (perceived) Is there a cure for this?

[David48]

Do I presume she doesn't work ATM?

Maybe encourage her to find gainfull employment?

Maybe she needs a challenge if she's staying @ home all day (presuming she's not working).

I know that my Thai Partner, once our kids are organised, wants to find some work which gives her more financial independence.

BTW ... thanks for coming back (above) and replying.

[pigeonjake]

get all the money back into YOUR acount,

and just say its you who will be looking after the money from now on,, and only you who will have access to the money, you will give her money for her needs,

tell her she has lost your trust and needs to earn it back,

see what she says to that,, see if she thinks money is more importent then your relationship,

just my 2 penethworth

[rayongchelsea]

I have worked with many thai women, non - Malays in malaysia, Hong Kong and Philippino women all educated, hard workers.

In all cultures some had secret savings just Incase for a " rainy day" yet none seemed in particularly bad marriages. I have a lot admiration for asian women who work, educated or otherwise, but it's their money.

Too many thai women marry foreigners and then think it is a meal ticket, have a kid..this is the brutality of it, especially if they have been previously married.

It's plain stealing, if she is desperate to open a coffee shop, get a job and let her save her salary and you contribute something to that fund.

This idea that it's not worth her working because she will only make 9000 or 10000 baht a month is a nonsense arguement. It's about self worth, self achievement etc..

You have kids -the extended family can help there, so she can achieve her goal.

8 years isn't long, it's if you stay for the next 10 that is.

But the marriage is doomed of this there is no doubt. Leaving the marriage is a different issue, but as a functioning healthy marriage it's a non starter.

People have given some well meaning advice but this is thailand.

[steelepulse]

Is 130,000 baht saved up for a rainy day worth ending the marriage? I could see if she has blown through a few million baht gambling than giving you a shady story, but 130K sitting in your house isn't quite the same. You do balance your accounts at the end of every month right?

[Soutpeel]

she needed the money to see her farther when he died

that she needed the money for our daughters savings

that if I died (and I’m only middle aged) the money would take care of her

she needed the money to start a business

You my friend are being fed a whole heap of horse sh*t, your being played and I think you know it, she has been putting her fingers in the till for reasons unknown

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Warning, warning,

She's getting ready to leave you.

If you have kids, take all their documents and your documents and put them somewhere else.

Bankbooks, housebooks, chanotes, car books, m/c books, marriage certs, birth certs, passports all need a safe house to stay.

Not in your house, not with anyone she has access to. Not your foreign friend, where she knows the wife or foreign friend.

Once she has enough money, she will grab all she can (including kids and cars) then disappear.

Edited November 14, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican