Tourist visa , website , pay tax ?

[gattopancione]

Hi sorry if maybe I have presented myself before .

My question is If I am staying in Thailand with a tourist visa of 6 months and I run a website that offer a service so people pay me this service , I need to pay any taxes her ? how ? , an of course can I do that without problem ?

thank you for your time .

best regard.

[Mario2008]

Working in Thailand requires a work permit, which you will not get unless you start a business in Thailand with a Thai partner. Foreign Internet workers in Thailand usually elect to work illegally and stay quiet about it.

[gattopancione]

thank you for you answer I throught so , and you confirm.

[Mannao]

What i get told at imigration (Pattaya) was that if its a 100% online service then you dont need a workpermit.. ????

[IMA_FARANG]

What i get told at imigration (Pattaya) was that if its a 100% online service then you dont need a workpermit.. ????

--------------------

Sorry, that is wrong.

Lots of posts on that already, but it is still not legal to work without a work permit.

And the way the Thais interpret the rules any ACTIVITY done in Thailand, whether you are compensated for that activity or not that appears to be a work activity is considered work.

And that activity, if considered work, is not legal without a work permit.

A lot of people get away with it on-line, because,frankly, it's almost impossible to enforce the rule.

But that still doesn't make it legal.

All it takes is one verifiable complaint to the right person, and you're in trouble.

Rather like plying Russian Roulette with a 6 shot revolver.

Most of the times you win, but in the end you lose everything.

Your choice.

Especially if your tourist visa, like mine does, has "Employment Prohibited" on the top of it.

Edited November 16, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[gattopancione]

now I am confused, so il legal but at the same time is illegal

[Mannao]

What they told me was that i did not need to have a workpermit becouse the bussnies was oversea.. was not based in Thailand.. maybe i should go and ask again.. but it sound logic.. if you not employd or have bussnies in Thailand.. why shoud you need a work permit

[stevenl]

now I am confused, so il legal but at the same time is illegal

Illegal but not enforced is not the same as legal.

[stevenl]

What they told me was that i did not need to have a workpermit becouse the bussnies was oversea.. was not based in Thailand.. maybe i should go and ask again.. but it sound logic.. if you not employd or have bussnies in Thailand.. why shoud you need a work permit

Not a good reason. But you'd better check with labor office in stead of immigration.

[balo]

Just search for threads about digital nomads, as long as you don't live in Thailand on a permanent basis , its legal to work online as long as the business is outside Thailand. Even the immigration has confirmed that. Please do not start another disussion about this.

[Mannao]

Thanx Balo that it exactly what the told me

[gattopancione]

Just search for threads about digital nomads, as long as you don't live in Thailand on a permanent basis , its legal to work online as long as the business is outside Thailand. Even the immigration has confirmed that. Please do not start another disussion about this.

There is so many and admin not light one and close others , also maybe laws change so I ask somebody for a updated topic and recive a secure answer .

If I register my vacation adress legally my buisness move or still have Trubles?

[paz]

Just search for threads about digital nomads, as long as you don't live in Thailand on a permanent basis , its legal to work online as long as the business is outside Thailand. Even the immigration has confirmed that. Please do not start another disussion about this.

There is so many and admin not light one and close others , also maybe laws change so I ask somebody for a updated topic and recive a secure answer .

If I register my vacation adress legally my buisness move or still have Trubles?

You will never get a "secure answer". You have received the summary already.

What means "register my vacation address" ? You do not need to register anything when staying as a tourist in Thailand.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Fact is, there has not been a single reported case of anybody being prosecuted for working online on Tourist or Education visas when they do not deal with Thai clients or receive payment in Thailand. Even when they have very rarely come to the attention of authorites and have been arrested and questioned they have been released completely without charge - a stark contrast with the cases of foreigners servicing Thai clients in Thailand and being paid here.

The only people who seem to give a crap are some posters on this forum, none of whom seem to actually have any form of responsibility for enforcing Thai visa or Labour regulations. It's not like playing russian roulette with a 6 shot revolver in the slightest - that would be a 1 in 6 chance, were currently we're at 0 in X where X is the total number of people that have ever done any remote work from Thailand. All practical evidence points toward the authorities not giving a damn whatsoever about people working online on Tourist visas and being paid outsde of Thailand by non Thai clients or customers.

Regardless of the legality of working online, you are not responsible for any tax on it unless you become Thai resident, that would be staying here for 183 days in a year - almost dead on 6 months. Legally you should pay tax on foreign income when you are Thai resident if that income is remitted to Thailand in the same year it is earned. If you are able to keep foreign income out of thailand until the following tax year you can remit it to Thailand 100% legally tax free.

Edited November 16, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[gattopancione]

Fact is, there has not been a single reported case of anybody being prosecuted for working online on Tourist or Education visas when they do not deal with Thai clients or receive payment in Thailand. Even when they have very rarely come to the attention of authorites and have been arrested and questioned they have been released completely without charge - a stark contrast with the cases of foreigners servicing Thai clients in Thailand and being paid here.

The only people who seem to give a crap are some posters on this forum, none of whom seem to actually have any form of responsibility for enforcing Thai visa or Labour regulations. It's not like playing russian roulette with a 6 shot revolver in the slightest - that would be a 1 in 6 chance, were currently we're at 0 in X where X is the total number of people that have ever done any remote work from Thailand. All practical evidence points toward the authorities not giving a damn whatsoever about people working online on Tourist visas and being paid outsde of Thailand by non Thai clients or customers.

Regardless of the legality of working online, you are not responsible for any tax on it unless you become Thai resident, that would be staying here for 183 days in a year - almost dead on 6 months. Legally you should pay tax on foreign income when you are Thai resident if that income is remitted to Thailand in the same year it is earned. If you are able to keep foreign income out of thailand until the following tax year you can remit it to Thailand 100% legally tax free.

This chage if I accept payments from thai people ?

Thank you for the detailed answer , thank all for yours time apricieted

[Ioan Gavrila]

What i get told at imigration (Pattaya) was that if its a 100% online service then you dont need a workpermit.. ????

That is wrong as you need to pay income taxes while living in Thailand even if your income sources are purely online. If you have a work permit visa you can legally do so.

[paz]

What i get told at imigration (Pattaya) was that if its a 100% online service then you dont need a workpermit.. ????

That is wrong as you need to pay income taxes while living in Thailand even if your income sources are purely online. If you have a work permit visa you can legally do so.

Actually you're wrong. For example someone that has passive income (rentals, dividends, royalties) that does not bring to Thailand, do not have to pay taxes in thailand, and much less have a work permit, of course.

[rwdrwdrwd]

@Ioan Gavrilla - You do not need a work permit to pay tax, just a tax number. As paz says, foreign income that is never remitted to Thailand is never subject to tax in Thailand, regardless of residency. Only foreign income that is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned is taxable in Thailand, and only then if the person in question spends more than 183 days in Thailand in that tax year. To pay it, a work permit is not necessary - just a tax number.

--

@gattopancione

I have as little right to declare legality or illegality as anyone else contributing on this thread - it's pure opinion and will remain that way until the day comes that someone is actually prosecuted for it and opts to argue in court (and probably stay in detention until the hearing).

The reason my opinion differs from the blunt declaration that "it's definitely illegal" stems from the fact that numerous people who have been caught in the act of doing remote work (from a coworking space with their machines and activity history readily accessable) on Tourist and Education visas have been arrested, questioned and released without charge and that I have never heard a single report of anybody being prosecuted for doing so in almost 10 years of living here. If you tell immigration when you arrive that you plan to work online, plan to stay at the airport for a long time explaining all about your online business, and be prepared to be refused entry without right of complaint - it is entirely up to the immigration officers you encounter at the airport how they interpret the law. I very much doubt that anyone who plans to work remotely from Thailand on a Tourist or Education visa has declared themselves as doing so at the airport on arrival.

In terms of taking money from Thai clients, sounds like risky territory to me.. one of the questions that I've heard has been asked is in regard to where money is sourced from, if you inform them that you are receiving payment from Thai clients whilst living in Thailand, regardless of where you receive the money I suspect you'd be in far more dodgy territory than someone who only receives payments from 100% non Thai clients. Personally if I had an online service that took payments, in your position, I'd not offer the service to clients in Thailand at all - should be pretty easy to implement.

Edited November 17, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[balo]

What i get told at imigration (Pattaya) was that if its a 100% online service then you dont need a workpermit.. ????

That is wrong as you need to pay income taxes while living in Thailand even if your income sources are purely online. If you have a work permit visa you can legally do so.

Why is it so hard for people like you to understand this ? How many more threads do we need? If you do not live permanently in Thailand you can work as a digital nomad. Online work in Europe/US or any country outside of Thailand.

You can stay as a tourist if you like, no problem or you can stay on a retirement visa, still no problem as long as you do not live in Thailand more than 6 months .

You pay taxes to your home country , not Thailand.

Edited November 17, 2014 by balo

[Digitalnomade]

it s a Grey area. government and immigration are retarded regarding new form of job and new life style.

they still think a job must be in a office from 8 to 5 pc . they still think a job is when you receive a salary in money or on a pay check.

they don't understand you can be paid in Dodge coin, lite coin, Bitcoin, and never change your coin to local currency. work from home(what is home anyway?) , and have a cell phone to run a business internationally.

as long governments don't understand the real world, be better for you to keep it quiet and let them to tax the idiots who still think they will become rich by having a "normal" job!

Edited November 18, 2014 by Digitalnomade

[stevenl]

What i get told at imigration (Pattaya) was that if its a 100% online service then you dont need a workpermit.. ????

That is wrong as you need to pay income taxes while living in Thailand even if your income sources are purely online. If you have a work permit visa you can legally do so.

Why is it so hard for people like you to understand this ? How many more threads do we need? If you do not live permanently in Thailand you can work as a digital nomad. Online work in Europe/US or any country outside of Thailand. <snip>

Sorry, not correct, how many more threads do we need?

rwdetc. described it very well: the law on that point is not enforced.

[rwdrwdrwd]

I'd go further than that to be honest.. seems to me, since people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning, one could glean from this that working online in this manner is not presently deemed to be 'working in Thailand' for the purpose of legislation. Point being, it might not only be that it's 'not enforced', it could be the case that the interpretation of 'working in Thailand' does not include working solely online for foreign entities, not dealing in any way with Thai customers and being renumerated outside of Thailand.

I can certainly see how it could be considered so, but can also see how it may not, since it does not in any way compete with local companies servicing Thai clients (like a dive instructor, barman, tour guide, real estate agent or even mowing your mates lawn does). Either way the fact remains that even when people that work remotely have come to the attention of authorities, even when they have been arrested whilst doing so during raids performed for the purpose of capturing illegal workers, they have not been prosecuted or even warned in any way and have instead been released without charge.

Of course, one day (at any point) immigration might change their perspective and people might start getting charged, taken to court (if they are willing to spend the time waiting for a hearing in an immigration detention centre) and subsequently deported. Until that day it certainly feels like a grey area to me, since no precedent has been set by virtue of a decision in court and people so far have been released without charge when they have come to the attention of authorities.

@balo there is no legislation that says it is fine to work online in Thailand so long as it is for less than 6 months, nor has there ever to my knowledge been a statement saying this - i'm not sure where you're getting this info from. The only thing I can think of is that you might be referring to tax residency - it is certainly true that people are liable for tax for their foreign income earned in that year that is remitted to Thailand if they stay for over 6 months, but there is no legislation whatsoever specific to people that work remotely and whether they can legally do so / how long it is ok for.

Edited November 18, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[stevenl]

I'd go further than that to be honest.. seems to me, since people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning, one could glean from this that working online in this manner is not presently deemed to be 'working in Thailand' for the purpose of legislation. Point being, it might not only be that it's 'not enforced', it could be the case that the interpretation of 'working in Thailand' does not include working solely online for foreign entities, not dealing in any way with Thai customers and being renumerated outside of Thailand.

I can certainly see how it could be considered so, but can also see how it may not, since it does not in any way compete with local companies servicing Thai clients (like a dive instructor, barman, tour guide, real estate agent or even mowing your mates lawn does). Either way the fact remains that even when people that work remotely have come to the attention of authorities, even when they have been arrested whilst doing so during raids performed for the purpose of capturing illegal workers, they have not been prosecuted or even warned in any way and have instead been released without charge.

Of course, one day (at any point) immigration might change their perspective and people might start getting charged, taken to court (if they are willing to spend the time waiting for a hearing in an immigration detention centre) and subsequently deported. Until that day it certainly feels like a grey area to me, since no precedent has been set by virtue of a decision in court and people so far have been released without charge when they have come to the attention of authorities.

@balo there is no legislation that says it is fine to work online in Thailand so long as it is for less than 6 months, nor has there ever to my knowledge been a statement saying this - i'm not sure where you're getting this info from. The only thing I can think of is that you might be referring to tax residency - it is certainly true that people are liable for tax for their foreign income earned in that year that is remitted to Thailand if they stay for over 6 months, but there is no legislation whatsoever specific to people that work remotely and whether they can legally do so / how long it is ok for.

Do you have reports of "people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning" please?

[rwdrwdrwd]

Do you have reports of "people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning" please?

Sure - http://asiancorrespondent.com/127125/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

[NanLaew]

it s a Grey area. government and immigration are retarded regarding new form of job and new life style.

they still think a job must be in a office from 8 to 5 pc . they still think a job is when you receive a salary in money or on a pay check.

they don't understand you can be paid in Dodge coin, lite coin, Bitcoin, and never change your coin to local currency. work from home(what is home anyway?) , and have a cell phone to run a business internationally.

as long governments don't understand the real world, be better for you to keep it quiet and let them to tax the idiots who still think they will become rich by having a "normal" job!

Oh there's always one isn't there?

Working and earning purely online isn't a "new form of job and new life style" by any stretch of your foreskin.

As long as you are happy avoiding any fiscal obligations you go boy but please stop calling the honest tax payer an idiot. Maybe you consider yourself smarter than the average prole and thumb your nose at 'retarded' government regulations but in the grand scheme of things, you simply are not that special.

[stevenl]

Do you have reports of "people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning" please?

Sure - http://asiancorrespondent.com/127125/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

Thanks, but different situation.

They were arrested because they were suspected of working for the co-working space, and released without charge because it became clear they were not.

So that is not "admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients".

[rwdrwdrwd]

Do you have reports of "people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning" please?

Sure - http://asiancorrespondent.com/127125/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

Thanks, but different situation.

They were arrested because they were suspected of working for the co-working space, and released without charge because it became clear they were not.

So that is not "admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients".

They were quite clearly working online.. in possession of all evidence of doing so. People don't get released (completely without any form of warning) because they are found to be doing something illegal that is different to what they were originally thought to be doing illegal. That would be like someone in possession of drugs being released after being arrested for drink driving and subsequently passing a blood test.

Edited November 18, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[stevenl]

Do you have reports of "people have been arrested by Immigration police, admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients and are not being paid in Thailand, and have subsequently been released without charge or warning" please?

Sure - http://asiancorrespondent.com/127125/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

Thanks, but different situation.

They were arrested because they were suspected of working for the co-working space, and released without charge because it became clear they were not.

So that is not "admitted that they are here on Tourist visas but are working online for non-Thai clients".

They were quite clearly working online.. people don't get released (completely without any form of warning) because they are found to be doing something illegal that is different to what they were originally thought to be doing illegal.

That is your interpretation, not the facts.

[onthemoon]

Mario2008 already answered this correctly in post #2 with regards to the OP's question.

I would like to add that is incorrect that you don't pay taxes if you stay less than 183 days. Rock bands stay for 2-3 days, get work permits and pay taxes, for example.

[rwdrwdrwd]

@stevenl

Are you suggesting that the immigration police let multiple individuals go free without warning when they were acting illegally in a manner that is under the remit of the department because it wasn't in the precise manner they originally thought?

Fact is, eleven people that work remotely on Tourist and Education visas came to the attention of the immigration police, were questioned for hours, and were released without charge. In addition, other avenues aside from 'working FOR punspace' were investigated - overstay, blacklist, and, crucuially, 'working illegally'.

The Punspace members were all released from the immigration office by around 3pm, after officials verified none of the 11 had overstayed their visas, been blacklisted or were working illegally.

Edited November 18, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd