Koh Tao murder suspects detained for another 12 days

[DM07]

Just reminding everybody they are also facing a charge of illegal entry into the country so I think they will continue to be held on that charge even if they are not indicted on the murder charge.

I wonder, if their "employers" are facing any charges for hiring them...

[Si Thea01]

So far for their "perfect" open and shut case that once was 100% "perfect", then 90%, then 80...

The proscecutor obviously knows that he's walking on thin ice with the whole world watching. Would be interesting to know where the initial prime suspects, Mafia HiSo Brat and AC Bar Rambo and Fatty with the ray bone ring posing with the garden hoe are "residing" today...

To the ones who did not follow up on this case from the very beginning: Please stay out of it, you have no idea what you are talking about!

Even if I had not read about this case each time a comment was posted, who are you to tell others to stay out of it. I suppose you have been present every time the two men were interviewed and also during every stage of the investigation that has been carried out since day one. If not, how come you are now the expert?

Every person is entitled to an opinion and do not need an arrogant ------- (fill in the space) know it all to tell them to butt out. I do not know one way or another and yes, the investigation leaves much to be desired but if I or any one else wants to comment then we will. But like all critics, unless others posting share you point of view, you don't want to know. A suggestion that maybe you should follow is to follow some of your own advise because what you are writing is only based on hearsay, assumptions and speculation.

Even in the end, if you are proven to be correct, or you are now able to provide direct factual evidence to back up your statement, then do so but until them, if you cannot, then maybe you should follow your own advise and stay out of it like you are suggesting others should.

[Willy Eckerslike]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

if th B2 are facing illegal entry into thailand

what about there employer, for employing such an illegal

there is a penalty for employing illegals, something to do with work permit,,

Just reminding everybody they are also facing a charge of illegal entry into the country so I think they will continue to be held on that charge even if they are not indicted on the murder charge.

I wonder, if their "employers" are facing any charges for hiring them... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

BANGKOK: -- OUT OF more than 5,000 migrant workers living and working on Koh Tao, around 2,000 live illegally by paying police Bt500 a month to work there.

Those who own or use motorcycles on this tiny island in the Gulf of Thailand, without a rider's licence, pay another Bt500 each month.

Migrants living illegally in Thailand are sometimes issued special cards by police to indicate they pay a monthly fee (ie. bribe). Animal stickers stamped on these cards, carrying their name, photo and name of the Thai employer/s they work for, are changed monthly by the police.

The animal for September was the turtle..............not sure which animal is used this month

[bongoz]

Apropos

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/burmese-murder-accused-british-backpackers-thailand

The pair, who were arrested a fortnight after the double murder and face a possible death penalty, passed the Guardian an open letter addressed to the victims’ parents.

Handwritten in Burmese, and with their names signed in English, it reads: “We are really distraught about the loss of your children, and we share your grief. But we want to stress to you that we didn’t do anything wrong, and this crime was nothing to do with us.

“In order that the truth can be revealed, we want to ask for help from all of you to ensure that we get access to information that the British government has. We would like this information to be shared with our lawyers so the truth can come out. We really want to express our thanks for your help.”

Very damning news story in The Guardian (link above)...

Very good that it has once again been brought into the headlines.

[useronthenet]

This case has exemplimfied the lack of transparency, and clearly demonstrated to the world how far Thailand will go to avoid pursuing the truth, in the hope that eventually the problem will disappear under a mountain of deception.

Firstly, I feel sad for the familly who may have hoped that there would be swift justice in Thailand, so they could at least get some form of closure. Instead, the world media gets a 'dog and pony show'.

The incompetence of the authorities is a clear reminder, that the country has a completely different agenda, especially when it comes to foreigners.

I for one am not convinced that they have the right suspects, which then leads to the question, where are the real purpertrators of this disspicable crime ? High season is apon us, and tourists are starting to arrive, and we have killer/s on the loose. How exactly are the authorities going to protect them ?

Edited November 21, 2014 by useronthenet

[abitmiffed]

"The defence lawyer, Mr Nakhon Chompoochart, said he would challenge the prosecutor’s demand for further detention of the suspects because he thought further detention was unjustified as the suspects had already been detained for 48 days."

Does Mr Nakhon reckons they should be released then? Murder suspects?

48 days is a sentence to this "lawyer" it would seem.

Well yes it is if your not guilty would you want to spend 48 days there? Not even 48 seconds thank you very much...

[siampolee]

This below is a copy of a post I made on another thread concerning this horrific crime

As a matter of interest is there any information regarding the current whereabouts of other local island parties who may well be of interest to the investigators and a further focal point of interest in this case?

Possibly pursuing a degree course overseas perhaps?

[Suffinator]

There's a photo with the British ambassador with the coup leader general in today's news.

Surely by now he must have something to say on the subject.

I mean they have condemned the coup sent British police there to observe the murder of two British citizens and he's sitting down talking trade deals and it's all lovey dovey?

Absolutely absurd !

Whether you approve or not, life continues...business needs to be done..........

I doubt any country would cease diplomatic relations over something like KT.....

If there was any morality and integrity in the world then they should. Thailand can count it's lucky stars I'm not the British PM because I would close the door shut until there was justice for two of my murdered citizens.

[stephen terry]

The defence lawyers are not able to prepare a proper defence until the B2 are released on bail. And the prosecutor seems hell-bent on indicting them, so is opposing bail. The court has granted another detention period, the fifth.

MrVeeravuthPrammahan, the deputy public prosecutor of SuratThani, told the court that police were to question the suspects further and the prosecutor were to question the suspects too regarding their complaint that they were tortured by the police. (Isn't it contrary to the prosecutor's judicial role to actively participate in an investigation?)

Being fair to both the B2 and RTP, don't think so. The dice are loaded against the B2. Wearing them down, using every tactic under the sun. Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Edited November 21, 2014 by stephen terry

[kannot]

Strange how the British were able to enact a law in 1679 which is still in force today to stop the unjust detaining of suspects without charge but almost 350 years later thailand is not even close to sorting out this abuse of rights.

I suppose we could go back further to the 1215 Magna Carta which also provides an accused with certain rights of Liberty.

Yes the British legal system is infallible

So youd rather be tried in Thailand right?

[Strangebrew]

Oh BIB needs thicker phone books and bigger bats. Maybe they should try water boarding.

[transam]

Perhaps "banana man" has been on a training course regarding to try with holding his urge to slap whilst translating, this time he might try slapping the BiB..

[strapper1]

If there was a jury trial, and I was a juror, I would have to vote not guilty, although, there is a part of me that thinks they are guilty. A person should be sure of their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So, what is a reasonable doubt? I would rather see a murderer go free, than convict an innocent person!

[FangFerang]

“The police were to question the suspects further ... regarding their complaint that they were tortured by the police.”

Okay, so we torture them for complaining about torture, and severely question their questions. In this way, we can surely adjust their attitudes.

[Baerboxer]

I wonder how Thai law looks at "wrongfully arrested" and "incarcerated without reason"

In Scandinavia, you get about 7-10k baht, a day, for the time you wasted in the lockup. I guess here, they will just get the "you are lucky to get out again"

To be honest, when is this charade going to end? Eveybody, even Thai's, know by now, that these two migrant workers did not kill anyone....

Nobody knows that really, do they? Many think they know. Only the guilty really know.

These two may be guilty, have been involved with others, or may be innocent. The investigation has been such a mess no one will ever really believe any verdict (unless of course it happens to coincide with their own pet theory).

[stephen terry]

I wonder how Thai law looks at "wrongfully arrested" and "incarcerated without reason"

In Scandinavia, you get about 7-10k baht, a day, for the time you wasted in the lockup. I guess here, they will just get the "you are lucky to get out again"

To be honest, when is this charade going to end? Eveybody, even Thai's, know by now, that these two migrant workers did not kill anyone....

Nobody knows that really, do they? Many think they know. Only the guilty really know.

These two may be guilty, have been involved with others, or may be innocent. The investigation has been such a mess no one will ever really believe any verdict (unless of course it happens to coincide with their own pet theory).

I would suggest that any reasonable person following this topic would agree that a 'not-guilty' verdict (if it reaches trial) would not be 'a miscarriage of justice'. It would be a fair outcome, IMO.

The rationale is that there are far too many unanswered and relevant questions, and omissions, to put any conviction of 'conspiring to commit murder and rape' as being beyond reasonable doubt.

[khunPer]

I wonder how Thai law looks at "wrongfully arrested" and "incarcerated without reason"

In Scandinavia, you get about 7-10k baht, a day, for the time you wasted in the lockup. I guess here, they will just get the "you are lucky to get out again"

To be honest, when is this charade going to end? Eveybody, even Thai's, know by now, that these two migrant workers did not kill anyone....

7k - 10k baht/day is based on education, Scandinavian salary and lost revenue – cannot just be currency converted. Here something like 300 bath/day for a worker on minimum salary would rather be it, plus perhaps some extra compensation...

However, I do wish the two should have a respectful compensation for the apparently misjudge when released.

[Si Thea01]

Everyone knows these two guys would be incapable of the murders. Due to the corrupt useless police, they had to find some poor innocent

soul so the police dragged these two in front of the cameras and charged them with the murders. It's the police who should be charged for botching a murder case and wrongfully charging these guys. They should be set free without any charge and paid compensation for all there worry.

I have decided to leave Thailand due to the corruption, the pathetic police that don't even know basic road rules and the shocking Thai driving. It's been a good 8 years but I've had enough.I don't know why they paint pedestrian crossings when no one stops. And that is poor quality paint, only lasts 1 month if that!

Well, well, well. A Svengali hey, a mind reader. How would you or anyone else know that these two guys are incapable of murder? What does a murderer look like, please give me your expert opinion. Dragged in front of cameras, don't think so. Charged them with murder? Don't think so, no charges have been laid in that regard. What is the charge, under Thai law, that you would have the police charged with? How many police would you have charged?

Please enlighten us all what factual evidence you have to back up your spurious allegations relating to the police's actions in this matter. I am in no way saying that the investigation is not without its faults and failings, and as time goes on, it may or may not see action taken against police.

It is probably good that you have left Thailand as what you are alleging and have put into print almost borders on defamation. You must be a real police hater. Oh oops, you have certainly gone off on a tangent. From telling us that everyone knows the men are not capable of such a hideous crime; to police not knowing the road rules and last of all the painting of pedestrian crossings. Please, are you able to show the relevance of the last three rants to the subject post? I doubt it.

To leave for the reasons put forward by you suggests you're not an adult but a child and one who would look for any excuse to justify his actions. When you get to where you are going please enlighten us as to the corruption free country you have moved to. One can only wonder, if you were ever here or if you were, have you left. Why you are so bitter? Had problems have we?

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster.

[transam]

Everyone knows these two guys would be incapable of the murders. Due to the corrupt useless police, they had to find some poor innocent

soul so the police dragged these two in front of the cameras and charged them with the murders. It's the police who should be charged for botching a murder case and wrongfully charging these guys. They should be set free without any charge and paid compensation for all there worry.

I have decided to leave Thailand due to the corruption, the pathetic police that don't even know basic road rules and the shocking Thai driving. It's been a good 8 years but I've had enough.I don't know why they paint pedestrian crossings when no one stops. And that is poor quality paint, only lasts 1 month if that!

Well, well, well. A Svengali hey, a mind reader. How would you or anyone else know that these two guys are incapable of murder? What does a murderer look like, please give me your expert opinion. Dragged in front of cameras, don't think so. Charged them with murder? Don't think so, no charges have been laid in that regard. What is the charge, under Thai law, that you would have the police charged with? How many police would you have charged?

Please enlighten us all what factual evidence you have to back up your spurious allegations relating to the police's actions in this matter. I am in no way saying that the investigation is not without its faults and failings, and as time goes on, it may or may not see action taken against police.

It is probably good that you have left Thailand as what you are alleging and have put into print almost borders on defamation. You must be a real police hater. Oh oops, you have certainly gone off on a tangent. From telling us that everyone knows the men are not capable of such a hideous crime; to police not knowing the road rules and last of all the painting of pedestrian crossings. Please, are you able to show the relevance of the last three rants to the subject post? I doubt it.

To leave for the reasons put forward by you suggests you're not an adult but a child and one who would look for any excuse to justify his actions. When you get to where you are going please enlighten us as to the corruption free country you have moved to. One can only wonder, if you were ever here or if you were, have you left. Why you are so bitter? Had problems have we?

Nearly all sensible expats are fully aware of how things operate and it is far from perfect but I have yet to see anyone display a bitterness such as yours. If you lived here for as long as you allege and are leaving for the reasons you state then it is obvious no matter where you go you will have trouble adapting and fitting in like most of us here have been able to do. Good luck because with your attitude I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster.

Fink you should read the case from the beginning chap........

[Equalizer]

“Detectives from the United Kingdom, who were in Thailand reviewing the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, have returned to the UK to compile their report and to update the families of Hannah and David on their findings,” she said. “The police team wish to thank the Thai authorities for facilitating the visit. It is not possible to make any further comment about the review at this time.”

The Report that never will be.

We arrived in Thailand and stayed in a 5 star hotel whilst the Thai authorities gave us updates whilst sitting by the pool. Request to scrutinize the evidence, Denied, Request to interview the accused, Denied. Request to interview Tao locals present on the evening of the murders, Denied.

The Report we will get

Due to the complexity of the case along with the passage of time the British police have come to the conclusion that it would be impossible to definitively give an opinion as to the accused involvement in the murder of two British citizens. The British police have been presented facts based on third parties and has not had the opportunity to form a conclusive answer that would have any bearing on the Thai judicial process.

Yours respectfully

Hello Hello Hello.

[stopthegreed]

I wonder how Thai law looks at "wrongfully arrested" and "incarcerated without reason"

In Scandinavia, you get about 7-10k baht, a day, for the time you wasted in the lockup. I guess here, they will just get the "you are lucky to get out again"

To be honest, when is this charade going to end? Eveybody, even Thai's, know by now, that these two migrant workers did not kill anyone....

It would appear that the Police have jumped to conclutions, and you are doing exactly the same. Why cant people let the justice system take its cause, and we will wait for the outcome. It is very dangerous to make assumptions.

[Krenjai]

Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Agreed this is unlikely, how can you release them when the case was perfect? Having said that, how can you prosecute them knowing this case will probably fall apart even further? I am sure this case will get even more media attention world wide when it goes to court and I guess that is something they really do not want.

It seems like a stalemate with no way out, nobody can move without losing face! Not prosecuting = loss of face for the many people who produced this perfect case but at the same time, releasing them = also loss of face because of the same reason: The case was perfect!

So what is next? Another 12 days + another 12 days until we reach 84 days and they will be released with a statement that there was not enough evidence to bring this case to court? No! Cannot be, it is again loss of face and it is like admitting to the cover up, framing them and more....

So it will (must) go to court, they will present their case and the verdict will be guilty! Why? Because nobody loses face and that is more important in Thailand than anything else I can tell you. Never ever make a Thai lose face in front of others, because your life is in danger!

Amazing Thailand, The Land of Smiles!

Edited November 21, 2014 by Krenjai

[Krenjai]

The concept of LOSING FACE!

http://goasia.about.com/od/Customs-and-Traditions/a/Saving-Face.htm

• The police arrest a Westerner by mistake. Although proven innocent, they cannot release him immediately because doing so would cause the police chief to lose face by admitting that a mistake was made."

[Willy Eckerslike]

Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Agreed this is unlikely, how can you release them when the case was perfect? Having said that, how can you prosecute them knowing this case will probably fall apart even further? I am sure this case will get even more media attention world wide when it goes to court and I guess that is something they really do not want.

It seems like a stalemate with no way out, nobody can move without losing face! Not prosecuting = loss of face for the many people who produced this perfect case but at the same time, releasing them = also loss of face because of the same reason: The case was perfect!

So what is next? Another 12 days + another 12 days until we reach 84 days and they will be released with a statement that there was not enough evidence to bring this case to court? No! Cannot be, it is again loss of face and it is like admitting to the cover up, framing them and more....

So it will (must) go to court, they will present their case and the verdict will be guilty! Why? Because nobody loses face and that is more important in Thailand than anything else I can tell you. Never ever make a Thai lose face in front of others, because your life is in danger!

Amazing Thailand, The Land of Smiles!

How about this for a face saver...........in the Samui Times today it was reported that..

Quote:

"During the hearing the prosecutor said that he did not oppose the accused requesting bail. Lawyers for the accused have now requested the Myanmar embassy to consider attempting to post bail for the temporary release of the accused. If bail were approved as the two men are non Thai nationals it would perhaps be likely that bail would be set at around 1,000,000 per person".

OK The Face Saver.................

Some mysterious donor pays the 2 mil to get the B2 bail..................they skip bail.............do a runner back to Myanmar with a little help..........the RTP say that they must have been guilty..............Face saved....

Big Boss..........requests their extradition.........Face Saved

B2 Lost in Myanmar cannot be traced................never to be seen again.............

No B2........ no trial..............Prosecutor.........Face saved...............

Edited November 21, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[kannot]

Unless, of course it's planned to release them after the 84 day period has elapsed - but I don't hold out any hope of that.

Agreed this is unlikely, how can you release them when the case was perfect? Having said that, how can you prosecute them knowing this case will probably fall apart even further? I am sure this case will get even more media attention world wide when it goes to court and I guess that is something they really do not want.

It seems like a stalemate with no way out, nobody can move without losing face! Not prosecuting = loss of face for the many people who produced this perfect case but at the same time, releasing them = also loss of face because of the same reason: The case was perfect!

So what is next? Another 12 days + another 12 days until we reach 84 days and they will be released with a statement that there was not enough evidence to bring this case to court? No! Cannot be, it is again loss of face and it is like admitting to the cover up, framing them and more....

So it will (must) go to court, they will present their case and the verdict will be guilty! Why? Because nobody loses face and that is more important in Thailand than anything else I can tell you. Never ever make a Thai lose face in front of others, because your life is in danger!

Amazing Thailand, The Land of Smiles!

How about this for a face saver...........in the Samui Times today it was reported that..

Quote:

"During the hearing the prosecutor said that he did not oppose the accused requesting bail. Lawyers for the accused have now requested the Myanmar embassy to consider attempting to post bail for the temporary release of the accused. If bail were approved as the two men are non Thai nationals it would perhaps be likely that bail would be set at around 1,000,000 per person".

OK The Face Saver.................

Some mysterious donor pays the 2 mil to get the B2 bail..................they skip bail.............do a runner back to Myanmar with a little help..........the RTP say that they must have been guilty..............Face saved....

Big Boss..........requests their extradition.........Face Saved

B2 Lost in Myanmar cannot be traced................never to be seen again.............

No B2........ no trial..............Prosecutor.........Face saved...............

Shot whilst attempting to escape............numerous times

[slipperylobster]

Something things just get forgotten...after a while.

Perhaps waiting for a distraction, and then release without a lot of hoopla.

[sambum]

I wonder how Thai law looks at "wrongfully arrested" and "incarcerated without reason"

In Scandinavia, you get about 7-10k baht, a day, for the time you wasted in the lockup. I guess here, they will just get the "you are lucky to get out again"

To be honest, when is this charade going to end? Eveybody, even Thai's, know by now, that these two migrant workers did not kill anyone....

There is indeed a formula for this. You get 200 Baht a day, I believe.

However, I don't think these 2 would qualify as they are just being held on remand.

And also entered Thailand illegally.

[sambum]

There's a photo with the British ambassador with the coup leader general in today's news.

Surely by now he must have something to say on the subject.

I mean they have condemned the coup sent British police there to observe the murder of two British citizens and he's sitting down talking trade deals and it's all lovey dovey?

Absolutely absurd !

I totally agree that it is absurd for the British ambassador to send British police to observe the murder of two British citizens! (sorry - couldn't resist, and I do hope that this farce ends soon for all concerned)

[sambum]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

if th B2 are facing illegal entry into thailand

what about there employer, for employing such an illegal

there is a penalty for employing illegals, something to do with work permit,,

Just reminding everybody they are also facing a charge of illegal entry into the country so I think they will continue to be held on that charge even if they are not indicted on the murder charge.

I wonder, if their "employers" are facing any charges for hiring them... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

BANGKOK: -- OUT OF more than 5,000 migrant workers living and working on Koh Tao, around 2,000 live illegally by paying police Bt500 a month to work there.

Those who own or use motorcycles on this tiny island in the Gulf of Thailand, without a rider's licence, pay another Bt500 each month.

Migrants living illegally in Thailand are sometimes issued special cards by police to indicate they pay a monthly fee (ie. bribe). Animal stickers stamped on these cards, carrying their name, photo and name of the Thai employer/s they work for, are changed monthly by the police.

The animal for September was the turtle..............not sure which animal is used this month

Careful - JDinasia could be watching, and he'll be wanting proof of the above!

[transam]

There's a photo with the British ambassador with the coup leader general in today's news.

Surely by now he must have something to say on the subject.

I mean they have condemned the coup sent British police there to observe the murder of two British citizens and he's sitting down talking trade deals and it's all lovey dovey?

Absolutely absurd !

I totally agree that it is absurd for the British ambassador to send British police to observe the murder of two British citizens! (sorry - couldn't resist, and I do hope that this farce ends soon for all concerned)

Why do you think it absurd...?