Australian man died while on Koh Phangan for 'Ibogaine' treatment, paper reports

[Balance]

The use of the English language really sucks. ...."he was dead the next day on what was to be his first session". This says that he died BEFORE he started the treatment.

Thai Visa could use a native English speaker editor.

[AyG]

The use of the English language really sucks. ...."he was dead the next day on what was to be his first session". This says that he died BEFORE he started the treatment.

That's exactly what it's supposed to say. The "clinic" wants people to believe he died of a self-administered overdose before treatment started, thus protecting what may laughably be called their "reputation". (For reputation read "ability to make large amounts of money from the extremely gullible and desperate".)

[EvilDrSomkid]

Looks like they have shut down. Their website is offline and so is their fb page.

[sojourner007]

i know 50 years old men who look younger than him..RIP

On the Andrew Drummond website there is more,but i cant link here

The DRUGS do it.

But on the flip side drug addicts and alcoholics often have beautiful girlfriends. Noticed it in Australia many times and here in Thailand too. If one wants to get a hot chick - get into drugs

[Si Thea01]

Another outstanding endorsement for medical tourism for Thailand.

Try engaging brain before moving towards keyboard - Thailand has some of the best hospitals in the world however this guy chose to go to a quack, given they exist in EVERY country how does that reflect badly on Thailand ? - I know of 2 people that were written off with cancer in the UK that were given new leases of life after treatment in Bangkok. One of them was told in the UK the cancer 'was not advanced enough' to warrant an operation !!!

A few years back I had a serious eye infection - went to a Bangkok hospital on a Saturday - they called in a consultant from home to see me. Her and her staff were fabulous to me throughout her day off and I then had treatment every other day for 3 weeks to clear it up. Bill incl drugs was just £246 (12,500b ?) - I thank god every day I wasn't in the UK where I would have gone blind waiting for a GP let alone get to a hospital

Yes, you are correct about the man choosing a quack and it has nothing to do with medial tourism. However, my problem arose during a nasal operation at a large private hospital in Udon Thani. Suffered eye muscle trauma during the operation and now need a second operation to hopefully rectify but by only up to 85% of my normal vision.

It's good to see others have had success but unfortunately I did not and have been only able to use one eye for 4 months now. So even if one goes to a reputable hospital, things can go wrong. Have found a large government University Hospital, which I swear by, and will have the eye op there as the cost is one fifth of the cost of the private hospital and I still get a private room and the best of food along with two professors working to rectify my sight..

[Rooo]

The use of the English language really sucks. ...."he was dead the next day on what was to be his first session". This says that he died BEFORE he started the treatment.

Thai Visa could use a native English speaker editor.

Learning to read might be a better option. Read first post & see who it was reported & written by before making such comments.

[Rooo]

Posts contravening forum guidelines removed.

[Guitar God]

A lot of people seem to have difficulty reading this article. He died. BEFORE he started Ibogaine treatment.

A treatment that is usually very effective and safe.

I guess the "staying clean for five days prior to treatment" part is the most difficult. Too bad the guy wasn't able to or he would most likely still be alive today and probably have no interest in heroin anymore. I know of three people who successfully beat their addictions after one Ibogaine treatment.

[Guitar God]

Any lack of peer-reviewed studies of the efficacy of Ibogaine treatments would be due to the same reasons there are so few published university or government studies on the effectiveness of cannabis on seizures or cancer while there are thousands of cases with anecdotal evidence. Time-lapse shots of melanoma disappearing or children's seizures stopping after it's administration.

Iboga has been well proven by modern pharmacological and medical studies to be effective in treating various substance addictions ... esp. opium, morphine & heroine addictions.

Could you provide a link to a reputable, peer reviewed scientific journal which reports such studies?

I rather suspect you can't, but if you can I'd be most appreciative.

[AyG]

Any lack of peer-reviewed studies of the efficacy of Ibogaine treatments would be due to the same reasons there are so few published university or government studies on the effectiveness of cannabis on seizures or cancer while there are thousands of cases with anecdotal evidence. Time-lapse shots of melanoma disappearing or children's seizures stopping after it's administration.

Iboga has been well proven by modern pharmacological and medical studies to be effective in treating various substance addictions ... esp. opium, morphine & heroine addictions.

Could you provide a link to a reputable, peer reviewed scientific journal which reports such studies?

I rather suspect you can't, but if you can I'd be most appreciative.

Sorry, I'm not understanding. HerbalEd says "Iboga has been well proven by modern pharmacological and medical studies", so there can't be "any lack of peer-reviewed studies". I'm sure HerbalEd can't be mistaken making such a bold assertion. I just wanted a few references to look up.

Searching Google Scholar* I see articles about how Ibogaine destroys brain cells, its biochemistry, and its effects on rats and mice, but only one article** in the first few pages which records a trial in a non-clinical setting where 1 out of 33 patients died. It only followed the patients for 72 hours and even in this short period some of them continued their drug seeking and/or continued to experience withdrawal symptoms.

* http://scholar.google.co.th/scholar?hl=en&q=Ibogaine

** Alper, K. R., Lotsof, H. S., Frenken, G. M. N., Luciano, D. J. and Bastiaans, J. (1999), Treatment of Acute Opioid Withdrawal with Ibogaine. The American Journal on Addictions, 8: 234–242.

[AngelsLariat]

A lot of people seem to have difficulty reading this article. He died. BEFORE he started Ibogaine treatment.

A treatment that is usually very effective and safe.

I guess the "staying clean for five days prior to treatment" part is the most difficult. Too bad the guy wasn't able to or he would most likely still be alive today and probably have no interest in heroin anymore. I know of three people who successfully beat their addictions after one Ibogaine treatment.

That's disputed (that he died before the Ibogaine treatment). The police initial reports said that he died the night before the treatment began. According to Drummond, the deceased's girlfriend is claiming that the treatment started, he was given valium to calm him, then he died.

[mamypoko]

The use of the English language really sucks. ...."he was dead the next day on what was to be his first session". This says that he died BEFORE he started the treatment.

That's exactly what it's supposed to say. The "clinic" wants people to believe he died of a self-administered overdose before treatment started, thus protecting what may laughably be called their "reputation". (For reputation read "ability to make large amounts of money from the extremely gullible and desperate".)

Can you provide a link that that is what the "clinic" wants people to believe?

[Guitar God]

I spent a few minutes and found quite a few reports on successful treatments.

http://www.iceers.org/docs/science/iboga/Alper%20et%20al_1999_Acute_Opiate_Withdrawal.pdf

The outcome of the above study was all positive except for one woman who died from using heroin after treatment. They found charred tin foil in her effects. She didn't die from Ibogaine.

Here are some more:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929313.900-mindaltering-drug-could-offer-life-free-of-heroin.html#.VKBDcUBAJQ

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/treatment.html

http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/index1626.html?PAGE=14

Even with a DEA license, scientists have a difficult time being able to conduct studies and have them published on non-mainstream drugs, especially if they have any pleasant side effects.

You can study the effects of poisons and carcinogens all day long but if you study something that gives you a little buzz like cannabis, it's an uphill battle getting approval.

Any lack of peer-reviewed studies of the efficacy of Ibogaine treatments would be due to the same reasons there are so few published university or government studies on the effectiveness of cannabis on seizures or cancer while there are thousands of cases with anecdotal evidence. Time-lapse shots of melanoma disappearing or children's seizures stopping after it's administration.

Iboga has been well proven by modern pharmacological and medical studies to be effective in treating various substance addictions ... esp. opium, morphine & heroine addictions.

Could you provide a link to a reputable, peer reviewed scientific journal which reports such studies?

I rather suspect you can't, but if you can I'd be most appreciative.

Sorry, I'm not understanding. HerbalEd says "Iboga has been well proven by modern pharmacological and medical studies", so there can't be "any lack of peer-reviewed studies". I'm sure HerbalEd can't be mistaken making such a bold assertion. I just wanted a few references to look up.

Searching Google Scholar* I see articles about how Ibogaine destroys brain cells, its biochemistry, and its effects on rats and mice, but only one article** in the first few pages which records a trial in a non-clinical setting where 1 out of 33 patients died. It only followed the patients for 72 hours and even in this short period some of them continued their drug seeking and/or continued to experience withdrawal symptoms.

* http://scholar.google.co.th/scholar?hl=en&q=Ibogaine

** Alper, K. R., Lotsof, H. S., Frenken, G. M. N., Luciano, D. J. and Bastiaans, J. (1999), Treatment of Acute Opioid Withdrawal with Ibogaine. The American Journal on Addictions, 8: 234242.

[German Viking]

The main Problem is Ibogaine leads to a Long-QT-Syndrom this can leads to a sudden cardiac death.

This effect can also be happen to very healthy persons, who never had any heart problems before.

It should not be allowed for Charlatans to use Ibogaine as an treatment, these bandits in Koh Phangan should getting a life sentence in Bangkok Hilton.

[Guitar God]

Given that the life expectancy of a heroin addict is around 15 years, the highly unlikely chance they would die of cardiac arrest during one or two Ibogaine treatments still provides a better outcome. Ibogaine and ayahuasca are widely used and there are few fatalities. Like I said, I know of three people who were treated with Ibogaine and haven't used narcotics since. The earliest was 14 years ago. Chances are at least one of them would be dead by now. Ibogaine saved their lives. I don't think people should be making money off it though. Pay for the Ibogaine and let someone with experience administer it.

[Madison blue]

many of you really need to go read Andrew Drummond's three articles on this. many seem to be missing facts as well as the point of the article. thankfully, at least one of you realizes Cracknell and Picone should be behind bars!

[AngelsLariat]

Given that the life expectancy of a heroin addict is around 15 years, the highly unlikely chance they would die of cardiac arrest during one or two Ibogaine treatments still provides a better outcome. Ibogaine and ayahuasca are widely used and there are few fatalities. Like I said, I know of three people who were treated with Ibogaine and haven't used narcotics since. The earliest was 14 years ago. Chances are at least one of them would be dead by now. Ibogaine saved their lives. I don't think people should be making money off it though. Pay for the Ibogaine and let someone with experience administer it.

That's the main thing isn't it, that it should be admistered with proper medical supervision? All this talk about big pharma selling even more dangerous stuff is beside the point even if true. As with Ibogaine, many mainstream medical treatments are safe and effective when administered properly but dangerous if administered by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. It doesn't follow that because mainstream medicine has wrongly shunned a treatment that it's OK for people who don't believe in modern medicine to set up unregulated businesses offering the treatment.

[AngelsLariat]

The use of the English language really sucks. ...."he was dead the next day on what was to be his first session". This says that he died BEFORE he started the treatment.

That's exactly what it's supposed to say. The "clinic" wants people to believe he died of a self-administered overdose before treatment started, thus protecting what may laughably be called their "reputation". (For reputation read "ability to make large amounts of money from the extremely gullible and desperate".)

Can you provide a link that that is what the "clinic" wants people to believe?

I don't think that ThaiVisa allows linking to Drummond's website but among other things he reports that the deceased's mother and fiancee "claimed Brodie did not die as a result of injecting himself with drugs in the bathroom of Room 4 in the Utopia Resort in Koh Phangan, as claimed by the programme providers Victor Cracknell and Michael Picone, from Buffalo, New York". If the clinic operators told the police that the guy died before the treatment began, then it's reasonable to assume that's what the clinic wants people to believe.

[mamypoko]

The use of the English language really sucks. ...."he was dead the next day on what was to be his first session". This says that he died BEFORE he started the treatment.

That's exactly what it's supposed to say. The "clinic" wants people to believe he died of a self-administered overdose before treatment started, thus protecting what may laughably be called their "reputation". (For reputation read "ability to make large amounts of money from the extremely gullible and desperate".)

Can you provide a link that that is what the "clinic" wants people to believe?

I don't think that ThaiVisa allows linking to Drummond's website but among other things he reports that the deceased's mother and fiancee "claimed Brodie did not die as a result of injecting himself with drugs in the bathroom of Room 4 in the Utopia Resort in Koh Phangan, as claimed by the programme providers Victor Cracknell and Michael Picone, from Buffalo, New York". If the clinic operators told the police that the guy died before the treatment began, then it's reasonable to assume that's what the clinic wants people to believe.

My bad...just a tongue and cheek joke about links.

[haybilly]

I researched Ibogaine Treatment many years ago (about 15 in fact) and there were many studies being undertaken-unfortunately funding for full on critical scientific evaluation in America was not forthcoming. The general consensus was that, provided the treatment was conducted under total medical control-there was a high chance of success; heart arrhythmia was a very definite side effect and total monitoring was essential.

It doesn't seem, from watching the Coconuts 'Documentary'that this was in any way medically or clinically/scientifically overseen. Sorry that this guy went to such a 'low key'establishment, and not to somewhere that really could have helped him.