Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[berybert]

Well if you people are right and Hannah wasn't a smoker then her DNA wont have been on any cigarette butts. And anyone who claims it was has therefore been proven a liar.

So maybe this is the one thing that proves the whole DNA fiasco to be just that.

Looks like if you can prove she didn't smoke the cards start to tumble.

[greenchair]

Don't forget guys it was widely reported that Hannah had some problems in the AC bar before she left. This is where this stems from I don't doubt. She was followed a few 100 meters along the beach on her way back to her room.

The scenario that it may have been a premeditated rape gone wrong, makes the most sense. David may have discovered it, which gave h an opportunity to run for a bit. That little running man was back and forth to the beach from 3.44 through to 5.41.what was going on that kept him coming and going? at the last time running a way like the wind.

I saw a shocking sight when I was young. I ran away suddenly, then got just a bit down the road, stopped took a breath and went back to deal with it.

Is that the time hannah was hit with the hoe one wonders. ??

[greenchair]

Well if you people are right and Hannah wasn't a smoker then her DNA wont have been on any cigarette butts. And anyone who claims it was has therefore been proven a liar.

So maybe this is the one thing that proves the whole DNA fiasco to be just that.

Looks like if you can prove she didn't smoke the cards start to tumble.

It certainly would change many things. There must be a way to find out if she is a smoker or not. It's just a little question, but has many implications. I wonder if the boys dna was tested against the sea man. Or only from the cigarette which supposedly has her dna on it. It could fix the dna dilemma perhaps. Bit complicated really this dna thing

[boomerangutang]

Don't forget guys it was widely reported that Hannah had some problems in the AC bar before she left. This is where this stems from I don't doubt. She was followed a few 100 meters along the beach on her way back to her room.

I think a significant portion of the testimony for the trial should deal with the scenario of the bars, on Sunday night and early Monday morning. However, the prosecution will try to steer testimony away from the bar scenario as that, along with many other things, would likely implicate the Headman's people. I assume the prosecution will say often (something like): It is only the 2 defendants who are on trial here. We should not discuss scenarios where the defendants were not present. If so, it's likely the judge will agree with the prosecution, and thereby dismiss any evidence which might implicate any men other than the B2.

I also think scheduling the trial to run from mid-summer to fall is too much of a delay. But I'm just an observer, and the schedule has already been cemented. Delaying the trial for so long doesn't really help the defense or the prosecution. What it does is: dulls the immediacy of the case in the minds of the general public. Lessens its significance which, of course, what Thai officialdom wants, so they can get on to the business of garnering as much tourist money as possible. Every article in Thai newspapers, about the crime, particularly in its early stages of the investigation, devoted at least half its ink to lamenting how the crime would impact on tourist dollars.

Another thing the delay does is keep the Burmese boys behind bars. The soonest they can get out, is October, at which time they will have been locked up for a year of their young lives. Nomsod and Mon should be the ones behind bars.

[balo]

You can speculate all you want for another 100 pages but there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts.

But by all means, go ahead and do your stuff.

Edited February 6, 2015 by balo

[loonodingle]

You can speculate all you want for another 100 pages but there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts.

But by all means, go ahead and do your stuff.

Sir Balo,

Many thanks for your approval to carry on having a conversation. We are honoured to have your blessing to continue.

Not sure what we would have done with our lives if we hadn't had your approval.

Kind Regs

Concerned TVF members.

[boomerangutang]

You can speculate all you want for another 100 pages but there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts.

But by all means, go ahead and do your stuff.

Thanks Balo, am glad I got your go-ahead to continue to be concerned for a fair trail and continue to hope Mon and Nomsod will be deservedly re-designated as prime suspects. Does Balo have a crystal ball which tells him "there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts"? Here are some things which might be new, in the interim time:

>>> bloody clothes could be found - hidden or partially burned

>>> Nomsod or Mon could break down and tell the truth of what they know. (granted, near-impossible).

>>> The Headman, his wife, or one of the Headman's people could tell the truth about what they know (nearly as impossible).

>>> The hoe could be re-examined by adept investigators.

>>> Nomsod's barber or doctor or the person who does laundry for the Headman's people could come forth and tell the truth.

>>> Phone records from 'persons of interest' just after the crime period could be revealed to the public.

>>> A speedboat operator or vehicle driver (mainland port to Bkk) could wax honest.

>>> one or more young backpackers could die from mysterious circumstances on KT - perhaps again at a place owned by the Headman.

>>> one or more young backpackers, who have first-hand knowledge of what happened, could die mysteriously - wherever.

>>> one or more Burmese, with inside info, could die mysteriously.

>>> a cop, who breaks rank with the cover-up/frame-up, could die mysteriously.

>>> one or both the B2 could die mysteriously in jail.

>>> Sean could pipe up again, and/or wind up dead.

>>> The Brit Coroner's Office could decide, for the sake of safeguarding backpackers on the island, to publish their findings.

>>> A lab tech could find DNA evidence and/or typing cards have been tampered with.

>>> David Cameron could pipe up and say something like, "We are disappointed at not being allowed to do any investigating of British Subjects murdered on Ko Tao."

>>> The initial lead cop or one of his underlings will pipe up and say something honest about how their first week's investigation was trashed by the replacement head cop.

>>> Ms Porntip will be allowed or asked to be involved with the investigation.

[greenchair]

Certain intvgators would mysteriously stop posting and never be heard from again.??

[falangjim]

Just a post to say no one has forgotten that Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered by Thais on Koh Tao. Everyone knows this. Few on Koh Tao have the balls to do anything about it. There's nothing new under the Thai sun. The Thais in power have done their job sweeping their mess under the carpet for now, but their stink will come back ... in July most likely.

Edited February 7, 2015 by falangjim

[jimmybkk]

We don't know what and where there DNA was found but is was stated early on that the DNA from the semen matched other items at the crime scene including the cigarettes found near the scene where it was later confirmed the defendants were smoking and singing (witnesses and defendants themselves admit this) and if I recall it was the same brand of smokes they were seen buying on video earlier that night.

The semen DNA was collected very early in the investigation and was logged and typed at numerous labs. The DNA reports were shared and analyzed by numerous people. The DNA eventually went to at least three labs which where doing the comparisons of the hundreds of samples police were collecting. So, it would take a vast conspiracy to change the DNA initially collected the day after the murders.

The suspects Semen DNA matched that semen collected a month earlier. Their DNA can be retested over and over again as they are still around and the semen initially collected and sent to numerous labs is still on file.

Without a vast conspiracy there is simply no way to explain their semen being in the victim and in all the defendants letter writing campaigns they have not tried to explain this they simply have said things like somebody powerful is responsible for the murders and they believe the murder has already fled Thailand but then when asked by the judge who they thought might be responsible they said they were clueless.

It is a shame that their lawyer is trying to take advantage of the results of social media detectives that brought so much attention because of claims being made that turned out to be wrong (cops planting phone). It is a shame because these two are likely going to end up being executed because they are showing no remorse and taking no responsibility. They can raise as much concern as they want in the public with those that distrust the RTP and simply are just angry with Thailand or Authority but it is pointless as the case will be decided by judges who won;t be swayed by such manipulations and will look solely at the facts and evidence.

That is a very authoritative-sounding post and you are claiming as fact many points regarding what appears to be the only piece of evidence linking the 2 Burmese to Hannah so I think it is worth examining.

Firstly, despite the fact you sound like an authority on forensic DNA evidence (is there anything you're not an authority on btw?) you are either ignorant or else deliberately misleading people. It's time for you to stop being such a drama queen, get off you're soapbox and stop sensationalizing the situation with all these claims of "a vast conspiracy". And whilst it's nice to see that you're letting AleG have exclusive use of his "conspiracy theory" catchphrase now, you're still attempting to discredit any suggestion of anyone but the 2 Burmese lads being guilty by using the term conspiracy, only now it's become a vast one. FYI you're a little behind the ball on this one, because from the moment the guy came forward saying that the police had offered him 700,000 Baht to say that he was a witness to certain events an (alleged) conspiracy is exactly what we had on our hands. The police had (allegedly) conspired to change the course of justice by introducing false testimony.

Now before you pass out, take a few deep breaths... I know it's hard to take in but it's true - all this time that you and AleG have been waving the conspiracy theory banners around like a couple of deranged religious zealots, you've actually been swimming right in the middle of one without realizing it. Freaky, huh? But it's OK... often our fear of something theoretical gets blown out of all proportion and when the reality strikes it's not nearly as bad as we were expecting. So you can put your banners and t-shirts away now, and you'd better start getting used to this feeling because conspiracies really do happen, and now you've seen one, you'll start seeing them everywhere...

A DNA match is not some magical piece of CCTV footage that shows the crime scene and the crime being committed in technicolor detail as you would seem to believe. The real fact is that if there was no malpractice involving the semen samples taken from Hannah's body and the collection of DNA from those samples (and that is a very big if), it proves only one thing - that sexual relations had occurred between the person who's DNA matched the DNA in the semen and the victim.

The way you describe the DNA testing makes it all sound very professional and quite credible. It's a distant cry from images I have seen of a crime scene that looked more like a dance floor than a restricted area, even while the bodies were still in situ. Evidence collection by forensic police officers wearing no protecting clothing other than a pair of rubber gloves. No sign of any white coveralls, paper hats, paper shoes and face masks. Heaven knows what type of containers were used for collecting DNA evidence. But then what was to be expected - the highest profile murder case in the country in years and instead of: "We'll send our best men to look into it right away" we hear: "We'll send our yes men to look into it right away". Why no Khunying Pornthip? Or any forensic pathologist for that matter? Instead they send the chief of the Institute of Forensic Medicine who is reported as saying that from the wounds [to both victims' heads] it cannot be certain what exact type of weapons the attacker used on the victims.The only fact known here is the weapons were blunt objects... Are you kidding me? Did the bodies somehow get mixed up on the way to the post mortem? From the photos I've seen of the wounds on David's body and head even Stevie Wonder could tell it wasn't a blunt object that made those puncture marks.

Oh well, I'm sure you're probably right and that from this point on everything was absolutely textbook, as per your post. I would imagine that in many countries any DNA that was alleged to have been collected in these circumstances with so many guidelines and protocols being ignored would be inadmissible in a court of law, but it seems to be all they've got here so no doubt it will be allowed. After all, unless I'm mistaken the DNA of the accused was not found on the hoe, no blood-stained clothes were found, no blood nor DNA of the victims was found on the accused... It seems to be just those semen samples, so just to be on the safe side would you mind providing sources for all those statements you claim to be fact surrounding the DNA collection testing:

"The semen DNA was collected very early in the investigation and was logged and typed at numerous labs." Source please.

"The DNA reports were shared and analyzed by numerous people." Source please.

"The DNA eventually went to at least three labs which where doing the comparisons of the hundreds of samples police were collecting." Source please.

And to end as we began, with talk of the vast conspiracy...

"Without a vast conspiracy there is simply no way to explain their semen being in the victim..."

How about: They met earlier that day and became sexually intimate at that time?

* Reason for edit: Typo

Edited February 7, 2015 by jimmybkk

[stephen terry]

You can speculate all you want for another 100 pages but there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts.

But by all means, go ahead and do your stuff.

Thanks Balo, am glad I got your go-ahead to continue to be concerned for a fair trail and continue to hope Mon and Nomsod will be deservedly re-designated as prime suspects. Does Balo have a crystal ball which tells him "there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts"? Here are some things which might be new, in the interim time:

>>> bloody clothes could be found - hidden or partially burned

>>> Nomsod or Mon could break down and tell the truth of what they know. (granted, near-impossible).

>>> The Headman, his wife, or one of the Headman's people could tell the truth about what they know (nearly as impossible).

>>> The hoe could be re-examined by adept investigators.

>>> Nomsod's barber or doctor or the person who does laundry for the Headman's people could come forth and tell the truth.

>>> Phone records from 'persons of interest' just after the crime period could be revealed to the public.

>>> A speedboat operator or vehicle driver (mainland port to Bkk) could wax honest.

>>> one or more young backpackers could die from mysterious circumstances on KT - perhaps again at a place owned by the Headman.

>>> one or more young backpackers, who have first-hand knowledge of what happened, could die mysteriously - wherever.

>>> one or more Burmese, with inside info, could die mysteriously.

>>> a cop, who breaks rank with the cover-up/frame-up, could die mysteriously.

>>> one or both the B2 could die mysteriously in jail.

>>> Sean could pipe up again, and/or wind up dead.

>>> The Brit Coroner's Office could decide, for the sake of safeguarding backpackers on the island, to publish their findings.

>>> A lab tech could find DNA evidence and/or typing cards have been tampered with.

>>> David Cameron could pipe up and say something like, "We are disappointed at not being allowed to do any investigating of British Subjects murdered on Ko Tao."

>>> The initial lead cop or one of his underlings will pipe up and say something honest about how their first week's investigation was trashed by the replacement head cop.

>>> Ms Porntip will be allowed or asked to be involved with the investigation.

>>> friends of David & Hannah could speak up as to what happened at the bars.

>>> friends of Hannah could confirm whether Hannah smoked or not, and how much alcohol she consumed.

>>> friends of Hannah could confirm when they last saw her and who was with her, and did she have her mobile phone with her.

>>> friends of David could confirm when they last saw him and who was with him.

>>> friends of David could opinion whether there was any 'relationship' with Hannah.

It troubles me that there has been no statements by the 'friends'. Zilch. Their information could be invaluable in proving the innocence (or guilt) of the B2. I wonder why no-one has spoken. Is anyone else implicated?

I'm beginning to consider that Hannah wouldn't walk back to her room alone or go to the beach with other than farangs. Where did the other girls stay? Was there another girl on the beach with Hannah? One that did wear lipstick and smoke? One that did run away when the attacks began, and scarper from the island PDQ?

Alternatively, Hannah must have walked along the beach with David and/or Sean. How did they meet up after leaving the bars separately - David on his own and Hannah with two girlfriends?

Edited February 7, 2015 by stephen terry

[stephen terry]

We don't know what and where there DNA was found but is was stated early on that the DNA from the semen matched other items at the crime scene including the cigarettes found near the scene where it was later confirmed the defendants were smoking and singing (witnesses and defendants themselves admit this) and if I recall it was the same brand of smokes they were seen buying on video earlier that night.

The semen DNA was collected very early in the investigation and was logged and typed at numerous labs. The DNA reports were shared and analyzed by numerous people. The DNA eventually went to at least three labs which where doing the comparisons of the hundreds of samples police were collecting. So, it would take a vast conspiracy to change the DNA initially collected the day after the murders.

The suspects Semen DNA matched that semen collected a month earlier. Their DNA can be retested over and over again as they are still around and the semen initially collected and sent to numerous labs is still on file.

Without a vast conspiracy there is simply no way to explain their semen being in the victim and in all the defendants letter writing campaigns they have not tried to explain this they simply have said things like somebody powerful is responsible for the murders and they believe the murder has already fled Thailand but then when asked by the judge who they thought might be responsible they said they were clueless.

It is a shame that their lawyer is trying to take advantage of the results of social media detectives that brought so much attention because of claims being made that turned out to be wrong (cops planting phone). It is a shame because these two are likely going to end up being executed because they are showing no remorse and taking no responsibility. They can raise as much concern as they want in the public with those that distrust the RTP and simply are just angry with Thailand or Authority but it is pointless as the case will be decided by judges who won;t be swayed by such manipulations and will look solely at the facts and evidence.

That is a very authoritative-sounding post and you are claiming as fact many points regarding what appears to be the only piece of evidence linking the 2 Burmese to Hannah so I think it is worth examining.

Firstly, despite the fact you sound like an authority on forensic DNA evidence (is there anything you're not an authority on btw?) you are either ignorant or else deliberately misleading people. It's time for you to stop being such a drama queen, get off you're soapbox and stop sensationalizing the situation with all these claims of "a vast conspiracy". And whilst it's nice to see that you're letting AleG have exclusive use of his "conspiracy theory" catchphrase now, you're still attempting to discredit any suggestion of anyone but the 2 Burmese lads being guilty by using the term conspiracy, only now it's become a vast one. FYI you're a little behind the ball on this one, because from the moment the guy came forward saying that the police had offered him 700,000 Baht to say that he was a witness to certain events an (alleged) conspiracy is exactly what we had on our hands. The police had (allegedly) conspired to change the course of justice by introducing false testimony.

Now before you pass out, take a few deep breaths... I know it's hard to take in but it's true - all this time that you and AleG have been waving the conspiracy theory banners around like a couple of deranged religious zealots, you've actually been swimming right in the middle of one without realizing it. Freaky, huh? But it's OK... often our fear of something theoretical gets blown out of all proportion and when the reality strikes it's not nearly as bad as we were expecting. So you can put your banners and t-shirts away now, and you'd better start getting used to this feeling because conspiracies really do happen, and now you've seen one, you'll start seeing them everywhere...

A DNA match is not some magical piece of CCTV footage that shows the crime scene and the crime being committed in technicolor detail as you would seem to believe. The real fact is that if there was no malpractice involving the semen samples taken from Hannah's body and the collection of DNA from those samples (and that is a very big if), it proves only one thing - that sexual relations had occurred between the person who's DNA matched the DNA in the semen and the victim.

The way you describe the DNA testing makes it all sound very professional and quite credible. It's a distant cry from images I have seen of a crime scene that looked more like a dance floor than a restricted area, even while the bodies were still in situ. Evidence collection by forensic police officers wearing no protecting clothing other than a pair of rubber gloves. No sign of any white coveralls, paper hats, paper shoes and face masks. Heaven knows what type of containers were used for collecting DNA evidence. But then what was to be expected - the highest profile murder case in the country in years and instead of: "We'll send our best men to look into it right away" we hear: "We'll send our yes men to look into it right away". Why no Khunying Pornthip? Or any forensic pathologist for that matter? Instead they send the chief of the Institute of Forensic Medicine who is reported as saying that from the wounds [to both victims' heads] it cannot be certain what exact type of weapons the attacker used on the victims.The only fact known here is the weapons were blunt objects... Are you kidding me? Did the bodies somehow get mixed up on the way to the post mortem? From the photos I've seen of the wounds on David's body and head even Stevie Wonder could tell it wasn't a blunt object that made those puncture marks.

Oh well, I'm sure you're probably right and that from this point on everything was absolutely textbook, as per your post. I would imagine that in many countries any DNA that was alleged to have been collected in these circumstances with so many guidelines and protocols being ignored would be inadmissible in a court of law, but it seems to be all they've got here so no doubt it will be allowed. After all, unless I'm mistaken the DNA of the accused was not found on the hoe, no blood-stained clothes were found, no blood nor DNA of the victims was found on the accused... It seems to be just those semen samples, so just to be on the safe side would you mind providing sources for all those statements you claim to be fact surrounding the DNA collection testing:

"The semen DNA was collected very early in the investigation and was logged and typed at numerous labs." Source please.

"The DNA reports were shared and analyzed by numerous people." Source please.

"The DNA eventually went to at least three labs which where doing the comparisons of the hundreds of samples police were collecting." Source please.

And to end as we began, with talk of the vast conspiracy...

"Without a vast conspiracy there is simply no way to explain their semen being in the victim..."

How about: They met earlier that day and became sexually intimate at that time?

* Reason for edit: Typo

Yes, important points - except for the last point. On the assumption that the RTP are covering up as already pointed out, it is only their report, not a fact.

...from the moment the guy came forward saying that the police had offered him 700,000 Baht to say that he was a witness to certain events an (alleged) conspiracy is exactly what we had on our hands. The police had (allegedly) conspired to change the course of justice by introducing false testimony.

...the DNA of the accused was not found on the hoe, no blood-stained clothes were found, no blood nor DNA of the victims was found on the accused

Also, David's DNA was neither found on the hoe or on Hannah. So what weapon was he killed with, and he certainly was not making out with her.

[stephen terry]

The RTP re-enactment with the hoe (dustpan) is another example of RTP's failure to grasp that the object would have contained David's DNA on it. It didn't, therefore the complete scene was fictitious. Beats me how anyone could believe the RTP.

[AleG]

You can speculate all you want for another 100 pages but there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts.

But by all means, go ahead and do your stuff.

Thanks Balo, am glad I got your go-ahead to continue to be concerned for a fair trail and continue to hope Mon and Nomsod will be deservedly re-designated as prime suspects. Does Balo have a crystal ball which tells him "there will be nothing new in this case until the trial starts"? Here are some things which might be new, in the interim time:

>>> bloody clothes could be found - hidden or partially burned

>>> Nomsod or Mon could break down and tell the truth of what they know. (granted, near-impossible).

>>> The Headman, his wife, or one of the Headman's people could tell the truth about what they know (nearly as impossible).

>>> The hoe could be re-examined by adept investigators.

>>> Nomsod's barber or doctor or the person who does laundry for the Headman's people could come forth and tell the truth.

>>> Phone records from 'persons of interest' just after the crime period could be revealed to the public.

>>> A speedboat operator or vehicle driver (mainland port to Bkk) could wax honest.

>>> one or more young backpackers could die from mysterious circumstances on KT - perhaps again at a place owned by the Headman.

>>> one or more young backpackers, who have first-hand knowledge of what happened, could die mysteriously - wherever.

>>> one or more Burmese, with inside info, could die mysteriously.

>>> a cop, who breaks rank with the cover-up/frame-up, could die mysteriously.

>>> one or both the B2 could die mysteriously in jail.

>>> Sean could pipe up again, and/or wind up dead.

>>> The Brit Coroner's Office could decide, for the sake of safeguarding backpackers on the island, to publish their findings.

>>> A lab tech could find DNA evidence and/or typing cards have been tampered with.

>>> David Cameron could pipe up and say something like, "We are disappointed at not being allowed to do any investigating of British Subjects murdered on Ko Tao."

>>> The initial lead cop or one of his underlings will pipe up and say something honest about how their first week's investigation was trashed by the replacement head cop.

>>> Ms Porntip will be allowed or asked to be involved with the investigation.

>>> friends of David & Hannah could speak up as to what happened at the bars.

>>> friends of Hannah could confirm whether Hannah smoked or not, and how much alcohol she consumed.

>>> friends of Hannah could confirm when they last saw her and who was with her, and did she have her mobile phone with her.

>>> friends of David could confirm when they last saw him and who was with him.

>>> friends of David could opinion whether there was any 'relationship' with Hannah.

It troubles me that there has been no statements by the 'friends'. Zilch. Their information could be invaluable in proving the innocence (or guilt) of the B2. I wonder why no-one has spoken. Is anyone else implicated?

I'm beginning to consider that Hannah wouldn't walk back to her room alone or go to the beach with other than farangs. Where did the other girls stay? Was there another girl on the beach with Hannah? One that did wear lipstick and smoke? One that did run away when the attacks began, and scarper from the island PDQ?

Alternatively, Hannah must have walked along the beach with David and/or Sean. How did they meet up after leaving the bars separately - David on his own and Hannah with two girlfriends?

It's funny how neither of you realize that long list of hypothetical breakthroughs only serves to underline how unrealistic (to put it mildly) this theory of a vast conspiracy is; all those people involved and not one spills the beans, not one chain link broken, amazing!

Reality doesn't work like that, thus the need to substitute facts with fiction.

[AGareth2]

does anyone think that the parents may have talked to the friends?

I would have

[stephen terry]

does anyone think that the parents may have talked to the friends?

I would have

So would I. But there was no mention of this in their statement released by the FCO.

[stephen terry]

It's funny how neither of you realize that long list of hypothetical breakthroughs only serves to underline how unrealistic (to put it mildly) this theory of a vast conspiracy is; all those people involved and not one spills the beans, not one chain link broken, amazing!

Reality doesn't work like that, thus the need to substitute facts with fiction.

Your logic isn't.

Silence could indicate that no-one wants to put their head above the parapet. In the US it would be called 'taking the fifth'.

[greenchair]

I have often wondered if hannah indeed was not killed at the beach. But in her room or a room. Why is there no footage of her going back to her room. There was certainly a lot going on that night. Naked man in the streets. Young men skinny dipping, and clothes being stolen. One guy running here then there then here again. Punch ups. Rape . What a crazy night it must have been. I will never believe that all this was going on and nobody knew. ??

[AGareth2]

have we a time of death///?

[berybert]

It's funny how neither of you realize that long list of hypothetical breakthroughs only serves to underline how unrealistic (to put it mildly) this theory of a vast conspiracy is; all those people involved and not one spills the beans, not one chain link broken, amazing!

Reality doesn't work like that, thus the need to substitute facts with fiction.

Your logic isn't.

Silence could indicate that no-one wants to put their head above the parapet. In the US it would be called 'taking the fifth'.

Strangely a few of the links did break. Like the girl claiming Nomsod didn't show up to the school for a week, and when he did he had more than a few scratches on him. His girlfriend stating they where together in Bangkok whilst at the time she herself was in Pattaya.

Trouble is when ever a link breaks there are a few RTP lovers on here out with their sticky tape doing there best to post every other post to disclaim it.

[falangjim]

The RTP re-enactment with the hoe (dustpan) is another example of RTP's failure to grasp that the object would have contained David's DNA on it. It didn't, therefore the complete scene was fictitious. Beats me how anyone could believe the RTP.

No one believes them because time and time again, they prove what a sack of lying crap they are.

[stephen terry]

It's funny how neither of you realize that long list of hypothetical breakthroughs only serves to underline how unrealistic (to put it mildly) this theory of a vast conspiracy is; all those people involved and not one spills the beans, not one chain link broken, amazing!

Reality doesn't work like that, thus the need to substitute facts with fiction.

Your logic isn't.

Silence could indicate that no-one wants to put their head above the parapet. In the US it would be called 'taking the fifth'.

Strangely a few of the links did break. Like the girl claiming Nomsod didn't show up to the school for a week, and when he did he had more than a few scratches on him. His girlfriend stating they where together in Bangkok whilst at the time she herself was in Pattaya.

Trouble is when ever a link breaks there are a few RTP lovers on here out with their sticky tape doing there best to post every other post to disclaim it.

And the taxi driver who turned down a 700k bribe from the RTP to give false evidence.

[stephen terry]

I have often wondered if hannah indeed was not killed at the beach. But in her room or a room. Why is there no footage of her going back to her room. There was certainly a lot going on that night. Naked man in the streets. Young men skinny dipping, and clothes being stolen. One guy running here then there then here again. Punch ups. Rape . What a crazy night it must have been. I will never believe that all this was going on and nobody knew. ??

I think it unlikely Hannah was killed elsewhere and then carried down to the beach, because of the logistics of that, and as you stated there was a lot going on. Also, if she was killed, there would be no point in carrying her from the room - unless it was a room that belonged to the powerful family. Also, Sean and David would have had to been there for Sean to make the facebook remark that David tried to save her.

Most likely bet is a beach party, which seems to be the norm on this hedonistic island. And possibly the locals were inured to the many coming and going ons every night. Probably couldn't give a toss what happened to the Farangs - which, sadly, appears to be the mentality. I can even understand why the locals won't speak out - why bring trouble on themselves and family, and who cares about anyone from Burma?

[greenchair]

I care ????

[loonodingle]

I care ????

you may GC but unfortunately the friends and family have shown a total lack of interest. Quite shameful. Hanney and David must be looking down in despair at the saga.

[loonodingle]

It's funny how neither of you realize that long list of hypothetical breakthroughs only serves to underline how unrealistic (to put it mildly) this theory of a vast conspiracy is; all those people involved and not one spills the beans, not one chain link broken, amazing!

Reality doesn't work like that, thus the need to substitute facts with fiction.

Your logic isn't.

Silence could indicate that no-one wants to put their head above the parapet. In the US it would be called 'taking the fifth'.

Strangely a few of the links did break. Like the girl claiming Nomsod didn't show up to the school for a week, and when he did he had more than a few scratches on him. His girlfriend stating they where together in Bangkok whilst at the time she herself was in Pattaya.

Trouble is when ever a link breaks there are a few RTP lovers on here out with their sticky tape doing there best to post every other post to disclaim it.

And the taxi driver who turned down a 700k bribe from the RTP to give false evidence.

or pancake man saying they hit David with a wine bottle

[greenchair]

I care ????

you may GC but unfortunately the friends and family have shown a total lack of interest. Quite shameful. Hanney and David must be looking down in despair at the saga.

Don't quite know what's going on there. We really don't know, but I have hoped 1 or 2 of them might at least give the defense information if they need it.

[angiolo]

Please keep this topic going ,the trial is a long way off.

[rockingrobin]

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

Edited February 7, 2015 by rockingrobin

[thailandchilli]

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

On the tide reach point then no it did not cover the whole beach as the photo below suggests. Yes I also believe there was some form of party going on and that something happened to alter the friendly dynamics, I doubt the B2 would be the type to carry around condoms and this reinforces my view there was at the minimum one other person involved when the crime took place.