Tensions brewing on the Cambodia-Thailand border

[webfact]

Border tensions brewing



BANGKOK: -- Tensions are brewing once again on the Cambodia-Thailand border as controversial construction work has led the neighbouring country to bolster its forces, raising fears of renewed clashes in 2015, The Phnom Penh Post reported, citing military and government officials.

Un Chinda, deputy governor of Preah Vihear province, said road work close to the border, in an area claimed by Cambodia but which Thailand says had previously been agreed on as neutral territory, sparked the dispute.

Chinda said he received an “informal letter from the Thai side” earlier this week “requesting that we postpone the road construction … and refill land” already excavated.

“We agreed with Thailand’s request to postpone the road construction, but we have not agreed to refill the land for the road as the construction will be ongoing because it is under the sovereignty of Cambodia,” he said. “The road construction is far … from the An Ses border, where the barbed wire between the two countries was placed.”

Chinda said that about 200 Thai soldiers have been deployed to the area, but denied reports that Cambodia had bolstered its own forces.

He denied reports of current plans to build a casino and hotel in the area, claiming that the construction was limited to a new road, which is being built next to an existing statue, adding that the An Ses, or Chong Arn Mar, border pass had been shut since early this week.

Chinda added that Hun Manet, Prime Minister Hun Sen’s son and a lieutenant-general in the Royal Cambodian Armed Forces, has been in the area since Tuesday monitoring the situation.

A military official in Preah Vihear, who asked not to be named, said high-ranking military officials from Cambodia and Thailand are scheduled to meet on January 7.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/border-tensions-brewing


-- Thai PBS 2015-01-01

[geovalin]

You may read the Phnom Penh Post version. Same information but a little bit more longer article.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/788312-border-tensions-brewing/

[siampolee]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

[rainman333]

use that land to build massive massage parlors and everyone comes away happy

[rubl]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

Edited January 1, 2015 by rubl

[ikke]

Time to bring the submarines in....

[Thailand]

Hope the military will not have to take on a force other than their own people,won't be quite as easy.

[rubl]

Hope the military will not have to take on a force other than their own people,won't be quite as easy.

Hope the Military don't have to take anyone on.

Happy and peaceful 2015

[Lupatria]

Looks like there is to time set for people in this region to grow up and start acting responsible

[outsider]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

IMO, the AEC will but remain just a pipe dream as nothing will really happen come 31 December 2015. Originally an initiative to economically 'unite' ASEAN countries, the AEC will probably not work because each member country has its own vested interests and will not budge from its positions. Yes, there will be zero tax here and free movement of labour there, but each country will impose some form of tariff or excise in place of tax, and it will all come back to the same. There will be some initiatives the countries will parade as a part of the AEC initiative, but these will be - and I speculate - mere dog-and-pony shows. For example, I really cannot see how Malaysia is going to remove 'special protection' for its so-called 'national car' project, Proton. Without protection from the Malaysian government, Proton will just be eaten up by the competition. They might as well just close it down if they removed the protection.

[Tomtomtom69]

Oh no, we don't need more of this s***. Look Thailand, just get over yourselves. This piece of land is small, doesn't hold much value, so why not just let it go as it doesn't belong to you? Why create more tensions and then possibly derail talks on important bilateral issues such as an official system for Thai and Cambodian private vehicles to be let across each and every international border crossing with insurance that can be purchased at the border, mutual trade and other agreements?

I don't really see how AEC 2015 can come about in less than a year with renewed tensions brewing between 2 member states. Thailand already has enough under it's belt with the almost daily bombings, killings, etc. that go on in the 3 far southern provinces bordering Malaysia, which has been described by a Thai speaking and Thai based western journalist as a situation as bad as Kabul. So I think Thailand should take care of the mess down there first, something it has been unable to do over the past 11 years since the most recent tensions first escalated - it can ill afford another conflict with Cambodia after almost 3 years of relative calm.

[Tomtomtom69]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

IMO, the AEC will but remain just a pipe dream as nothing will really happen come 31 December 2015. Originally an initiative to economically 'unite' ASEAN countries, the AEC will probably not work because each member country has its own vested interests and will not budge from its positions. Yes, there will be zero tax here and free movement of labour there, but each country will impose some form of tariff or excise in place of tax, and it will all come back to the same. There will be some initiatives the countries will parade as a part of the AEC initiative, but these will be - and I speculate - mere dog-and-pony shows. For example, I really cannot see how Malaysia is going to remove 'special protection' for its so-called 'national car' project, Proton. Without protection from the Malaysian government, Proton will just be eaten up by the competition. They might as well just close it down if they removed the protection.

You're right. Interestingly, while we're on the topic of AEC 2015 and Malaysia, last night's New Year celebrations on Thai PBS focused on the celebrations in Thailand and 4 neighboring countries, specifically their main cities - Kuala Lumpur, Vientiane, Phnom Penh and Yangon. I missed the parts where the reporters reported from Phnom Penh and Yangon (perhaps they didn't report from them at all, or they must have reported somewhere between 12.10am and 12.25am when I switched networks), but they did report from Vientiane once before New Year and from Kuala Lumpur both before and after midnight Thai time. According to the second report, the Thai PBS reporter down in Kuala Lumpur talked about how the AEC 2015 will allow Thais to migrate down to Malaysia for work more easily, open more Thai restaurants, blah blah blah due to the Malaysian economy being in constant need of foreign workers.

Well that's always going to be the case, AEC or not. I don't think that any agreements or concessions the Malaysian government has made or will make, have much to do with AEC, but rather their own labour shortages, particularly in unskilled and semi-skilled labour. It's a similar situation in Thailand.

As you say, each AEC country has their own agenda and only the more developed ones are more or less ready for any sort of union between each other, so that makes for 4 countries only that could somehow be joined together in a common union and even then it would be shaky at best. These countries are Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei.

I don't see how a union of 10 member states, comprising 3 of the poorest countries in the world (Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia) along with 3 newly emerging countries with a vast percentage of their populations still very poor (Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines) can integrate themselves with 2 of the richest economies in the region and the world (Brunei and Singapore) or even with 2 middle income countries (Thailand and Malaysia) that are far more advanced than their neighbours, excepting of course the 2 most developed countries just mentioned.

AEC 2015 has already been delayed by 1 year minus 1 day - but I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to be delayed further. And then delayed again. Let's face it, ASEAN countries are NOT ready for AEC 2015.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[rubl]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

IMO, the AEC will but remain just a pipe dream as nothing will really happen come 31 December 2015. Originally an initiative to economically 'unite' ASEAN countries, the AEC will probably not work because each member country has its own vested interests and will not budge from its positions. Yes, there will be zero tax here and free movement of labour there, but each country will impose some form of tariff or excise in place of tax, and it will all come back to the same. There will be some initiatives the countries will parade as a part of the AEC initiative, but these will be - and I speculate - mere dog-and-pony shows. For example, I really cannot see how Malaysia is going to remove 'special protection' for its so-called 'national car' project, Proton. Without protection from the Malaysian government, Proton will just be eaten up by the competition. They might as well just close it down if they removed the protection.

You're right. Interestingly, while we're on the topic of AEC 2015 and Malaysia, last night's New Year celebrations on Thai PBS focused on the celebrations in Thailand and 4 neighboring countries, specifically their main cities - Kuala Lumpur, Vientiane, Phnom Penh and Yangon. I missed the parts where the reporters reported from Phnom Penh and Yangon (perhaps they didn't report from them at all, or they must have reported somewhere between 12.10am and 12.25am when I switched networks), but they did report from Vientiane once before New Year and from Kuala Lumpur both before and after midnight Thai time. According to the second report, the Thai PBS reporter down in Kuala Lumpur talked about how the AEC 2015 will allow Thais to migrate down to Malaysia for work more easily, open more Thai restaurants, blah blah blah due to the Malaysian economy being in constant need of foreign workers.

Well that's always going to be the case, AEC or not. I don't think that any agreements or concessions the Malaysian government has made or will make, have much to do with AEC, but rather their own labour shortages, particularly in unskilled and semi-skilled labour. It's a similar situation in Thailand.

As you say, each AEC country has their own agenda and only the more developed ones are more or less ready for any sort of union between each other, so that makes for 4 countries only that could somehow be joined together in a common union and even then it would be shaky at best. These countries are Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei.

I don't see how a union of 10 member states, comprising 3 of the poorest countries in the world (Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia) along with 3 newly emerging countries with a vast percentage of their populations still very poor (Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines) can integrate themselves with 2 of the richest economies in the region and the world (Brunei and Singapore) or even with 2 middle income countries that are far more advanced than their neighbours, excepting of course the 2 most developed countries just mentioned (Thailand and Malaysia).

AEC 2015 has already been delayed by 1 year minus 1 day - but I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to be delayed further. And then delayed again. Let's face it, ASEAN countries are NOT ready for AEC 2015.

I don't really like this, but unfortunately you're right

[richard10365]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

seems like they get along fine near Poi Pet. Maybe they should just make the entire border casinos and then everyone can get along and be happy.

[KhaoNiaw]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

Yes, it's quite funny to read all the comments on how the ASEAN countries aren't ready for free movement of labour and the removal of all trade protection in 2015, when those are not even AEC objectives.

[than]

Well Taksin government's ally lost power last year, now he is best Cambodia friend be back in light..............

[FangFerang]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

"Thailand’s failure to implement the International Court of Justice’s ruling last year that part of the hotly contested vicinity around Preah Vihear Temple largely belongs to Cambodia “poses a serious threat”

Um, maybe Thailand has yet to realize we have to share the world.

[Tomtomtom69]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

"Thailand’s failure to implement the International Court of Justice’s ruling last year that part of the hotly contested vicinity around Preah Vihear Temple largely belongs to Cambodia “poses a serious threat”

Um, maybe Thailand has yet to realize we have to share the world.

Yep, the failure to implement the ICJ court ruling will definitely have a negative effect, and already seems to be causing some problems now.

[whybother]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

I am not sure where you get your information from, but from what I understand, there are things that were due to be implemented in 2008 that still haven't been implemented, and they're still a long way from having all the laws and processes in place that they need for the start of AEC at the end of this year.

[richard10365]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

Yes, it's quite funny to read all the comments on how the ASEAN countries aren't ready for free movement of labour and the removal of all trade protection in 2015, when those are not even AEC objectives.

There is no total removal of all trade protection. There are specific limits on what tariffs are getting eliminated. Paragraph A1.13 of the AEC Blueprint talks about this.

There is also no free movement of labor. There is a free flow in trade in services as defined by the World Trade Organization (WTO) General Agreement for Trade in Services (GATS). The schedules of specific commitments of the ASEAN Framework Agreement in Services (AFAS) covers what sectors have been liberalized by the countries that have eliminated them. Paragraph A2 of the AEC Blueprint talks about this.

So you are correct. The free movement of labor and the removal of ALL trade protection are not current objectives as defined by the AEC Blueprint for 2015. However, they are long run goals desired for post 2015 implementation.

[richard10365]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

I am not sure where you get your information from, but from what I understand, there are things that were due to be implemented in 2008 that still haven't been implemented, and they're still a long way from having all the laws and processes in place that they need for the start of AEC at the end of this year.

AEC Scorecard

[samsensam]

use that land to build massive massage parlors and everyone comes away happy

no pun intended?

[rubl]

Nothing like a little conflict to enhance and act as a a fertilizer for the growth of that plant, '' Xenophobia.''

Amusing, or in reality sad, as ASEAN (perhaps) comes into full maturity this year.

Perhaps this spat could be an escape route for a country or countries who are as yet not yet ready or willing to accept ASEAN for any number of reasons.

If with "full maturity" you mean the start of the AEC then you have to wait till the 31st of December, but yes still this year.

"Thailand’s failure to implement the International Court of Justice’s ruling last year that part of the hotly contested vicinity around Preah Vihear Temple largely belongs to Cambodia “poses a serious threat”

Um, maybe Thailand has yet to realize we have to share the world.

Yep, the failure to implement the ICJ court ruling will definitely have a negative effect, and already seems to be causing some problems now.

'failure to implement'?

The ruling on Preah Vihear was as follows http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24897805

End of December, 2013 it was said Cambodia was waiting to have talks with the Thai government but understood the timing not right with having a caretaker government and 'some' unrest. Can't find what happened since.

Any pointers appreciated.

BTW I think the topic is about one of the other areas claimed by both countries, nothing to do with Preah Vihear.

[whybother]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

I am not sure where you get your information from, but from what I understand, there are things that were due to be implemented in 2008 that still haven't been implemented, and they're still a long way from having all the laws and processes in place that they need for the start of AEC at the end of this year.

AEC Scorecard

http://www.asean.org/resources/publications/asean-publications/item/asean-economic-community-scorecard-3

Just as an example, the "scorecard" (from 2012) indicates that the "Free Flow of Skilled Labour" is fully implemented.

The free flow of skilled labour for AEC is generally based around accreditations from one country being accepted in another. For Thais to use their skills, say for architecture, in another country, first they have to get accreditation from a central Thai based "architecture organisation". This is on top of having the relevant degree. There is no currently no central Thai organisation that gives this accreditation. The process to get accreditation is given hasn't even been worked out.

That would indicate to me that the "Free Flow of Skilled Labour" hasn't been fully implemented, in 2014, let alone 2012.

[stat088]

seems like they get along fine near Poi Pet. Maybe they should just make the entire border casinos and then everyone can get along and be happy.

Too many Casinos in that area already. Another opening on the Buriram border next month.

[Thai at Heart]

When they have run out of taxis returning money stories, go and have a hoolie with the Cambodian army for a few weeks.

[richard10365]

I think it's amazing how little most people know about Asean. Most of the AEC objectives have already been met. While there is still work to do, compared to what has already been accomplished, there is not much left to do in accordance with the AEC Blueprint. Speaking of the AEC Blueprint, if there is an objective that people think should be a part of the AEC and it is not in the AEC Blueprint, then it is not part part of the Asean Integration process for the AEC.

I am not sure where you get your information from, but from what I understand, there are things that were due to be implemented in 2008 that still haven't been implemented, and they're still a long way from having all the laws and processes in place that they need for the start of AEC at the end of this year.

AEC Scorecard

http://www.asean.org/resources/publications/asean-publications/item/asean-economic-community-scorecard-3

Just as an example, the "scorecard" (from 2012) indicates that the "Free Flow of Skilled Labour" is fully implemented.

The free flow of skilled labour for AEC is generally based around accreditations from one country being accepted in another. For Thais to use their skills, say for architecture, in another country, first they have to get accreditation from a central Thai based "architecture organisation". This is on top of having the relevant degree. There is no currently no central Thai organisation that gives this accreditation. The process to get accreditation is given hasn't even been worked out.

That would indicate to me that the "Free Flow of Skilled Labour" hasn't been fully implemented, in 2014, let alone 2012.

Thank you for making my point number one. It's amazing how little most people know about ASEAN. Maybe it's a technical thing like arguing over what makes a jet aircraft engine from Boeing better than an engine from a competitor? Maybe I should not be so critical of what people say about what is happening in ASEAN. For that I'm wrong. I apologize.

However, the AEC Blueprint is a pretty technical document that is easily misunderstood if a person does not have an international business background. And then again, most of the business instructors and academics at my university are clueless as well about ASEAN and the AEC. Maybe working knowledge of the WTO, international trade theory, and ASEAN would be the best combination.

About your comments....the scorecard reports on measures identified in the AEC Blueprint. There are 4 Phases to the AEC Blueprint. The document you pointed out only deals with Phases 1 and 2. We are now in Phase 4 of the AEC Blueprint. The measure from Phase II is fully implemented. No where in the AEC Scorecard that you pointed states that the "Free Flow of Skilled Labor" is fully implemented. However, it is schedule to be complete this year.

The "Free Flow of Skilled Labor" is based on visa arrangements between the ASEAN countries. See paraghraph A5 in the AEC Blueprint.

What you were talking about is one of the most misunderstood aspects of the AEC Integration process. The "Free Flow of Services" includes Mutual Recognition Arrangements (MRA) for 8 service sectors. MRAs are covered by Article VII of the GATS agreement. Seven of the ASEAN MRAs are administered by the ASEAN economic ministers of the 10 ASEAN countries. The 8th, the MRA for tourism is handled by the tourism ministers of all 10 ASEAN countries.

For the Free Flow of Services...A service sector is defined by the World Trade Organization's (WTO) General Agreement for Trade in Services (GATS). Specifically, GATS W/120 universe of classification. There are 12 service sectors which contain sub-sectors containing other sub-sectors which leads to all the service jobs in the world. For example, teaching, banking, accounting, working in hotels, etc. are services covered by GATS. GATS identifies 4 modes of delivering a service to a consumer: (1) Cross border supply; Such as providing streaming internet service from the USA to Thailand such as GamePass from the NFL. (2) Consumption Abroad such as when a tourist from the USA comes to Thailand and stays in a Thai hotel. (3) Commercial presence is when a someone from one country invest in some form in another country such as a joint venture (FDI) (4) Presence of natural persons is when a person from one country comes to work in another country such as farangs working in Thai schools as English teachers.

I'm only familiar with the tourism aspect of the Mutual Recognition Arrangement for Tourism Professionals. (MRA-TP). The MRA-TP is administered in Thailand by the Ministry of Tourism and Sports. They are also the organization that issues the accreditation in Thailand as well as verifies accreditation from other ASEAN countries for the 32 tourism certificates under the MRA-TP. Just because you're not aware of these Thai offices existing does not mean it hasn't happened yet. It only means you, and most everyone else, doesn't know about it.

[ggt]

This headline: "Tensions brewing on the Cambodia-Thailand border"...could be from any point in time over the past several hundred years...

[richard10365]

Sorry...that's 32 jobs under the MRA-TP with 52 possible certificates.