Can't afford to live in Thailand anymore

[LetsTryThis]

Toronto just got dumped 20-30cm of snow, -19C temperature with -25C wind chill. the trend will continue thru march more or less

what Canada is good at

- The people, very nice, very tolerant

- In general the cities are very safe

- Political stability

what Canada is not good at

- Weather

- Cost of living

- Cultural attractions (lack of world-class museums, historical sites, etc)

[Berkshire]

I had a Work colleague back in 2009 (58yo)who left everything to go marry and live with his Thai GF in Thailand.

He actually got fired for taking too many "sick days"...yes he was taking weeks at a time to visit Thailand.

Anyway he came back last year and lost all his money from his house sale etc and last i heard was trying to make ends meet driving a Cab on the nightshift here in Farangland because he couldnt find any other job and was broke.

Everytime i spoke to him he would slam Thailand.."oh its a B....d of a place you know !! He would shout.

There seems to be a lot of these type guys posting on TV.

[Rajhulmaheesh]

I had a Work colleague back in 2009 (58yo)who left everything to go marry and live with his Thai GF in Thailand.

He actually got fired for taking too many "sick days"...yes he was taking weeks at a time to visit Thailand.

Anyway he came back last year and lost all his money from his house sale etc and last i heard was trying to make ends meet driving a Cab on the nightshift here in Farangland because he couldnt find any other job and was broke.

Everytime i spoke to him he would slam Thailand.."oh its a B....d of a place you know !! He would shout.

Was the thai girl a BARgirL?

Sorry i dont believe living in any major canada city is cheaper than livn in BKK.(as long as one in NORMAL ie, not a drunk, or a serial sexual intercourser.......................lol.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Rajhulmaheesh

[fey]

For the twenty zillion, quillionth time:

http://www2.bot.or.th/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=80&language=ENG

Big sigh!

With all due respect, few here are qualified to read a bank's financial statement and even that isn't the BOT's financial statement. It's what it claims to have in foreign reserves. Because no one will accept the baht for oil or other international trading, Thailand (like China and Russia and most others) has to hold $USD to back its trades.

It isn't possible to take a snapshot of one tiny corner of all that's happening and use that to prove why a currency has value.

Russia and China have foreign reserves in US Treasuries to back their trades because few would accept their currencies either. This is where some make the mistake of thinking that the US "owes China money." No, China bought US treasuries so that it could buy on the international market just as Thailand has.

Now please start over and tell me why the baht is so high against many other currencies.

You should read more carefully! My post was in response to another poster who said, "I very much doubt that the Bank of Thailand would have the resources to prop up the currency to any degree" and was not an attempt to explain, "why the baht is so high against many other currencies". The availability of BOT foreign currency reserves proves that BOT does have that capability, whether or not it uses those reserves for that purpose is another subject, as is why the Baht is so strong.

Sorry, you really don't understand international finance.

Thailand's foreign currency reserves aren't liquid and neither are those of other countries. They hold those reserves to have the currency they need to engage in international trade. No one will accept Thai baht for imports and no one will pay in Thai baht for exports.

Thailand MUST sit on foreign currency reserves to back its international trades. A lot of things are purchased with US dollars. Most countries hold USD in the form of treasuries to back their trades. If it used its international currencies to manipulate the baht it would be out of international business.

BTW, this is why many people mistakenly think the "the US owes China money." No, China has to buy US Treasuries to back its international trades which are done in dollars. No one would accept Thai or Chinese money for oil or most other things they want to import. If they didn't sit on a lot of USD ships would stop coming to their ports.

But if those countries would decide to dump their US$ reserves tomorrow, the US$ would fall of the cliff and their own currency go through the roof, enabling them to load up their reserves at a discount the very next day.

please clarify what you mean (and re-paste the entire quote with your response)

[WhamBam]

Not sure where in Canada you are from or would like to live, but a mitigating reason for Thailand is the weather. Toronto currently -11c. Vancouver 8c, but you know the rain there can last a long time, and being cold and wet is worse than cold and dry (snow). So, what about 6-8 months Thailand for the winter and spring, summer, start of fall in Canada rest of the time? Your Thai gf would appreciate it (winter so cold and dark...)

I don't mind cold at all as long as it's sunny and doesn't have too much rain or snow. I could do S. Alberta or Saskatchewan which would be similar to Montana or N. Dakota in the US. It's the continual cloudiness, drizzle and even coastal storms that get me down.

I was in Winnipeg @ -11 deg C and it did not feel cold at all really. The reason being - I believe - is that on the North East coast of England we have biting winds straight off the North sea. Damp cold wind that cuts through the clothes in winter.

-11 deg C felt very comfortable because it is (was) a dry cold with little or no wind.

Yes, those storms, the snow, drizzle and damp really can make it feel miserable.

I have to admit my preferences now lay in Thailand during some of the colder months of a U.K. winter though not all the months because there is so much beauty to be seen in a winter. The same for the winter months I spent in Canada.

[mikiea]

If Canada really is better, your wife ought to recognize the merit in moving there.

Give her plenty of chances to see what it has to offer, and make the decision together.

For me, leaving Thailand is hard to imagine. Once it's in your blood...and all that.

Best of luck.

the merit of moving there? what are you thinking? da hoochi coochi will freeze first then fall off. yea the merits, a insane frozen gf bundled in long johns wrapped up in down blankets over her winter coat screaming at you for bring her to live in the ice box known as canada instead of florida. :-)

[NeverSure]

I think we wandered away from the OP's "I can't afford to live in Thailand anymore."

I can understand the issues for people whose home currency and perhaps income has dropped a lot compared to the baht. In actual terms, I also see rising costs in Thailand even when denominated in baht.

For those with a modest income I feel bad.

I can't help but wonder if the value of the baht has anything to do with money laundering. It seems an awful lot of baht is purchased to build expensive things, especially commercial and multifamily buildings. I wonder how long that would last if the market began to think that the emperor has no clothes.

Edited February 3, 2015 by NeverSure

[thaibeachlovers]

Live in Canada and find a Canadian GF/wife?

If the women there are like the ones in my PC feminist dominated homeland .

As for many expats with Thai wives/ GFs, do you think an attractive young woman in a western country would live with a fat balding old man unless he was really rich, or do you think they have to live with someone that looks like their granny?

[PHP87]

More proof that it is, without a doubt, more expensive to live in Canada than in Thailand. A new study just came out that ranks 119 countries by a "Cost of Living" index.

"A new global cost of living index report reveals the cheapest countries in the world to live in. The report, prepared by data research website Numbeo, considered factors such as the cost of rent, groceries, local purchasing power, and cost of eating in a restaurant. The study compares Consumer Price Index (CPI) of each country with that of New York City. Click through to see which country is the cheapest to live in."

Canada ranks as the 20th most expensive country to live in.

Thailand ? 87th. Yeah, 67 places lower than Canada.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp

Interesting to note that, according to that index, it is more expensive to live in Myanmar and Cambodia than it is in Thailand ! I also found it interesting that India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh all rank in the bottom 21. Indonesia ranks as the 12th cheapest country to live in.

Some of those countries are probably more expensive to live in because of the cost of getting anything there (like Libya). Still, apparently it is cheaper to live in Syria than Thailand (but more expensive in Iraq) !

www.numbeo.com is a great resource. It may not be 100% accurate, but it's damn close.

Thailand is by far, the best bang-for-your buck (no pun intended) place to retire.

There are places in the RP I would consider, but Thailand has the Phils beat.

[Thai at Heart]

Sorry, you really don't understand international finance.

Thailand's foreign currency reserves aren't liquid and neither are those of other countries. They hold those reserves to have the currency they need to engage in international trade. No one will accept Thai baht for imports and no one will pay in Thai baht for exports.

Thailand MUST sit on foreign currency reserves to back its international trades. A lot of things are purchased with US dollars. Most countries hold USD in the form of treasuries to back their trades. If it used its international currencies to manipulate the baht it would be out of international business.

BTW, this is why many people mistakenly think the "the US owes China money." No, China has to buy US Treasuries to back its international trades which are done in dollars. No one would accept Thai or Chinese money for oil or most other things they want to import. If they didn't sit on a lot of USD ships would stop coming to their ports.

But if those countries would decide to dump their US$ reserves tomorrow, the US$ would fall of the cliff and their own currency go through the roof, enabling them to load up their reserves at a discount the very next day.

You don't understand how the US Fed works. It issues bonds and it buys bonds. There is a US market and an international market for bonds (treasuries.) The Fed has to keep enough USD in circulation to meet the needs for international exchange.

About 65% of US treasuries are owned domestically and about 35% are owned by foreigners. China holds about 7% and Japan about the same because they both do so much import and export. They need dollars to engage in foreign trade. LINK

Think about this. Everyone knows that Japan is heavily in debt to the tune of about 250% of its GDP, and yet it NEEDS 7% of US debt ($USD) to do international business. This is no different for China.

Bottom line is that if China sold its treasuries the Fed would buy them and the value wouldn't drop at all. THEN China would have to scramble to try to replace the USD so it could continue to import and export. It would be screwed.

I don't think you were ever an international banker, were you? Yes I was for the first 1/2 of my working life.

Cheers

Beautifully put.

[LetsTryThis]

If Canada really is better, your wife ought to recognize the merit in moving there.

Give her plenty of chances to see what it has to offer, and make the decision together.

For me, leaving Thailand is hard to imagine. Once it's in your blood...and all that.

Best of luck.

the merit of moving there? what are you thinking? da hoochi coochi will freeze first then fall off. yea the merits, a insane frozen gf bundled in long johns wrapped up in down blankets over her winter coat screaming at you for bring her to live in the ice box known as canada instead of florida. :-)

lol exactly...it's so cold and dry, girls don't bother to shave anymore, and they eat more to stay warm....bikini scenes are non-existence,

...even in the past 2 years summer has been chilly here, like 20-25C

[chiang mai]

I think we wandered away from the OP's "I can't afford to live in Thailand anymore."

I can understand the issues for people whose home currency and perhaps income has dropped a lot compared to the baht. In actual terms, I also see rising costs in Thailand even when denominated in baht.

For those with a modest income I feel bad.

I can't help but wonder if the value of the baht has anything to do with money laundering. It seems an awful lot of baht is purchased to build expensive things, especially commercial and multifamily buildings. I wonder how long that would last if the market began to think that the emperor has no clothes.

I recently bought a home just north of Chiang Mai, it's a seven year old 3 bed/3 bath single story house that has a superb garden measuring nearly one rai, my wife and I love the location and the house. Yes indeed the house is in my wife's name but I have a usufruct registered on the chanotte and anyway, I only paid THB 3mill. for the place so even if the government kicks me out tomorrow, no big deal (I thought I'd cover off those points first, before anyone else came along and tried to take the conversation down that road).

So for 3 million baht (or £63k) I have a superb home that I couldn't even begin to buy in the UK, even if I was so inclined, which I'm not. My point here is, how many other people would be willing to do as I have done, my guess is there's loads and that accounts for a large element of baht purchases, a consequence of which is a stronger baht. And let's face it, if a retired expat can't stump up 3 mill. baht plus 50k baht a month in living expenses, they probably shouldn't be here in the first place.

As a bi-product of buying my home I met the local landowner, a public figure of some repute and standing, a nice man with a great family. He in turn introduced me (by chance) to a Chinese Singaporean investor, Mr Lim, with whom he was in the process of setting up a deal to build houses, the landowner would supply the land, the investor the capital to build the houses, all very upmarket with prices circa THB 15 mill and up. The investor was very pleasant and when I asked him why Thailand and why not Singapore, the UK or elsewhere he simply said it was far easier for him to do business here and the country had better growth potential and less debt, all said very matter of factually. So here we have it again, another reason why the baht is getting stronger, because people are investing here.

So why are people investing here and why are westerners buying homes here? Climate, cost of living (50k baht a month buys me a very pleasant existence where I want for nothing, albeit I don't do the bar/bar fine thing and I live just outside a tourist destination), security (the government is not going to kick out expat retirees, end of. And the crime thingy is way overdone), decent quality shopping with plenty of choice (no it's not London but I don't need it to be), good quality health care (Mrs CM just had two days in Suan Doc having here gall bladder removed, I was most impressed and found no difference between the Provincial Hospital and RAM), and so on.

As for the investment "why": it's clear from his posts that NS will never believe any "fact" regarding the Thai economy, "the balance sheet is not transparent, not verifiable, it's all smoke and mirrors", he will say, so be it. But I think there's better than a reasonable chance that Thailand has near zero unemployment, has extremely low debt, excellent export potential, has substantial reserves, no labor/union problems and importantly, doesn't have an "I'm entitled" problem amongst its population. Contrast those things with some countries in the West and the reason why money is flowing into Thailand and why the Baht is so strong becomes more clear.

And whilst this thread is about Thailand being too expensive, the message for many expats is clear: if you don't trust the country and all that entails, it follows that you you wont invest here hence the old line of , "never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to loose". The other side of that coin however is that if you don't invest, one day you may not be able to afford to live here.

Right, blast away,.

Edited February 4, 2015 by chiang mai

[bendejo]

Interesting. I've been back in my home country(US) for a while and doing some comparisons. I think most consumer prices are similar. Maybe a hair bit cheaper in the US due to WalMart. Only thing that in cheap in Thailand is the LOW monthly rent for studio apartments and the cheap restaurants. In the US I can't find any apartment for less than about $300 a month(10,000 baht) anywhere. But I can find good studio apartments for less than $150 a month in Thai. You can even find rooms for $50 a month in Thai still. So for me, Thai is still a bargain in the accomodation department. It's actually much for affordable to live in Thai for me. I've been priced out of my own country.

You should count yourself lucky. In the UK, you will not get a one bedroom apartment for less that $750 a month. For Brits Thailand is very cheap.

That US$750 would be the range for a studio or one bedroom apartment in a regional city in the US, maybe in a somewhat dodgy area. With a little effort you may be able to find a furnished room, but you probably wouldn't want to live there. In a major city fuggedabou..

Unless you live a metropolitan area you need a car to live in the US. Some of the transit systems in regional cities look very nice with their schedules and maps, but what would be a 20 minute drive in a car would take at least an hour via bus, depending how far you have to walk or have to transfer to different bus line. Also, after 7pm (and on weekends) a lot of the transit routes will shut down, or run once an hour. But if you have a car you can live further outside of town and possibly find a decent place to live for a comparitively good price.

I think after living the expat life people tend to be a little more in control of their spending, so when they return to the Modern World things may be slightly more affordable because of the way we now manage our expenses -- well, in my case anyhow.

[zierf1]

Live in Canada and find a Canadian GF/wife?

If the women there are like the ones in my PC feminist dominated homeland .

As for many expats with Thai wives/ GFs, do you think an attractive young woman in a western country would live with a fat balding old man unless he was really rich, or do you think they have to live with someone that looks like their granny?

I'm not old. I'm not fat. I'm not balding. Why couldn't I find a woman in my own country?

[mogandave]

I think we wandered away from the OP's "I can't afford to live in Thailand anymore."

I can understand the issues for people whose home currency and perhaps income has dropped a lot compared to the baht. In actual terms, I also see rising costs in Thailand even when denominated in baht.

For those with a modest income I feel bad.

I can't help but wonder if the value of the baht has anything to do with money laundering. It seems an awful lot of baht is purchased to build expensive things, especially commercial and multifamily buildings. I wonder how long that would last if the market began to think that the emperor has no clothes.

While I believe there is a lot of money laundering going on, unless I'm missing something, against the US$ the Baht is just about right where it was five years ago and significantly weaker than it was ten years ago, yes?

Incidentally, while it surged for a while, against the US$, the CAD is right about where it was against the US$ ten years ago, (and 20, and 30 years ago) yes?

Costs are clearly on the rise (how could they not be with a doubling of the minimum wage over the last two years) and with a 43% increase in the VAT coming later this year it will get worse before it gets better.

[alantheembalmer]

My principle reason in leaving England was the climate, which was having a detrimental effect on me both physically and mentally. The cost of living, for me, was of secondary importance, but for the way I live, it is considerably cheaper for me to live in Thailand than England. I suppose we all have to make that judgment based on our own particular life styles.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Live in Canada and find a Canadian GF/wife?

If the women there are like the ones in my PC feminist dominated homeland .

As for many expats with Thai wives/ GFs, do you think an attractive young woman in a western country would live with a fat balding old man unless he was really rich, or do you think they have to live with someone that looks like their granny?

I think you mean "or do you think they have to live with someone that looks like their sister".

[Rooo]

Get back on topic please. It's about Thailand & affordability, not US, Canada or foreign wives.

Thank you.

[pigeonjake]

at the end of the day if you cant afford to live here, its time to go,

while you still can

[watcharacters]

Seems to me if your gf (future wife) has a good job in Thailand, then your combined income should be more than sufficient to live upon. However, there are good things about Thailand in comparison to Canada (or other countries), but that goes vice versa. I am tending to find that, with the exception of rent (and I can find affordable housing back in the US), if you live a parallel type of lifestyle, the costs of living in Thailand are lower, but not always that significantly. So there can be some discomfort in deciding to where to stay. Personally I believe that most farangs move here for two things: economics and women. If you are going to pair up with a woman here, as in any relationship, your life decisions will need to be shared. If for some reason she would be adamant about not leaving Thailand, you will have to consider if that is satisfactory to you (meaning you do not return to Canada unless it is without her). If she is willing to relocate, it might be worth the attempt (however, depending on her language and skill sets, securing a decent job might not be easy, so a single income should be considered). You can, if you have sufficient money, always return to Thailand. All anyone can really do for you is bring forth options and scenarios to consider. The decision as to what you do will always remain within your own hands. I hope it goes well for you!

I agree with what you say. What I haven't seen talked about up to this point in the thread is that the comparison is based on living inexpensively as a Thai would in Thailand or as a falang would as an expat here. There is a world of difference.

[krisb]

Much cheaper than Australia.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Seems to me if your gf (future wife) has a good job in Thailand, then your combined income should be more than sufficient to live upon. However, there are good things about Thailand in comparison to Canada (or other countries), but that goes vice versa. I am tending to find that, with the exception of rent (and I can find affordable housing back in the US), if you live a parallel type of lifestyle, the costs of living in Thailand are lower, but not always that significantly. So there can be some discomfort in deciding to where to stay. Personally I believe that most farangs move here for two things: economics and women. If you are going to pair up with a woman here, as in any relationship, your life decisions will need to be shared. If for some reason she would be adamant about not leaving Thailand, you will have to consider if that is satisfactory to you (meaning you do not return to Canada unless it is without her). If she is willing to relocate, it might be worth the attempt (however, depending on her language and skill sets, securing a decent job might not be easy, so a single income should be considered). You can, if you have sufficient money, always return to Thailand. All anyone can really do for you is bring forth options and scenarios to consider. The decision as to what you do will always remain within your own hands. I hope it goes well for you!

I agree with what you say. What I haven't seen talked about up to this point in the thread is that the comparison is based on living inexpensively as a Thai would in Thailand or as a falang would as an expat here. There is a world of difference.

Thais can live on 5k a month or less, no reason why a foreigner couldn't.

Plenty of rooms available at 1,000-1,500 a month, or even cheaper for a room in a Thai household.

[smokie36]

Hmmm will have to ponder this question over another couple of pints of Paulaner......

[mogandave]

Or a bottle of Molson Golden...

[fey]

If Canada really is better, your wife ought to recognize the merit in moving there.

Give her plenty of chances to see what it has to offer, and make the decision together.

For me, leaving Thailand is hard to imagine. Once it's in your blood...and all that.

Best of luck.

the merit of moving there? what are you thinking? da hoochi coochi will freeze first then fall off. yea the merits, a insane frozen gf bundled in long johns wrapped up in down blankets over her winter coat screaming at you for bring her to live in the ice box known as canada instead of florida. :-)

cant a thai like cold weather? or is that only for whitey's

[Berkshire]

If Canada really is better, your wife ought to recognize the merit in moving there.

Give her plenty of chances to see what it has to offer, and make the decision together.

For me, leaving Thailand is hard to imagine. Once it's in your blood...and all that.

Best of luck.

the merit of moving there? what are you thinking? da hoochi coochi will freeze first then fall off. yea the merits, a insane frozen gf bundled in long johns wrapped up in down blankets over her winter coat screaming at you for bring her to live in the ice box known as canada instead of florida. :-)

cant a thai like cold weather? or is that only for whitey's

Most whiteys don't like cold weather either, if they're willing to admit. Unless they're a masochist.

[sanuk711]

I can't help but wonder if the value of the baht has anything to do with money laundering.......... I wonder how long that would last if the market began to think that the emperor has no clothes.--NeverSure

.

What are you smoking NeverSure-----& more importantly .....where can I get some..................

[krisb]

Hmmm will have to ponder this question over another couple of pints of Paulaner......

Mmmmm. ....Paulaner

[CapeCobra]

Hmmm will have to ponder this question over another couple of pints of Paulaner......

Mmmmm. ....Paulaner

--------

The new Bacco Beach Italian restaurant on Najomtien Beach (next to Glasshouse) features 3 (in words three) Paulaner draft beers:

Hefeweizen, Pilsener, Dunkel.

What a treat!

----------

[krisb]

Hmmm will have to ponder this question over another couple of pints of Paulaner......

Mmmmm. ....Paulaner

--------

The new Bacco Beach Italian restaurant on Najomtien Beach (next to Glasshouse) features 3 (in words three) Paulaner draft beers:

Hefeweizen, Pilsener, Dunkel.

What a treat!

----------

Interesting choice in an Italian restaurant.

I'll have the heffe thanks!