Which martial art to chose for a 12 year old girl?

[thailand49]

All traditional Martial art is for self defense.

Your daughter is 12 one only hopes whatever choice she makes the teacher can also teach her the reason for learning the art. Maybe old school to many for martial school should be for defense only. That being said here is my opinion. MuayThai for a girl is too grueling or painful so to me that cancelled itself out. Taekwondo, has turned into a show with all the fancy kicks and stuff derived from tournaments and as I say Hollywood but the tradition forms taught is where all the technique are learn but rarely displayed in fighting at tournaments. All people see are the fancy kicks etc.

Based on the three, you should be glad your daughter has interest Aikido as noted by many, since it is more useful up close and the style it would allow her to practice for years to come. In all due respect to the individual who said it was useless, of all the three it is a true all of defense and from the defense comes the offense. It takes years of training for a individual to be able to stand within arms defense of a individual or larger and wait for the attack. This act takes into consideration aggressive opponents swinging and uses their power and aggression to your advantage. Like the other arts including MMA, basically it takes strength which when you get older we seem to have less at a certain point. Aikido she will also learn many of the pressure points which will stay with your daughter years after she decides to quit.

Outside of your three choices if you are in Pattaya, you might pay a visit to a Shaolin studio on 3rd road off Pattaya Klang. My nieces love it!

The other since someone mention the late Bruce Lee, but you will find it impossible to find a real teacher and that is Wing Chun, my daughter in the States has been learning this for near 30 years started when she was 10, I've seen her practice and her husband who also practice say she is not someone you want to meet in a dark alley. I myself practice more for the mental aspect but gets pretty lonely since have no one to practice with except my wooden dummy.

But out of the three you mention I agree with most Aikido is a art if taught and learn properly can handle opponents much larger. Any who say it is useless is the one who hasn't seen a Master use it.

Good luck

Aikido is indeed very useful but it takes a lot of practice to use it in real life situations. Not something you can learn in a year when you practice f.i. Once a week...

Yes, I agree 100% but you are expanding the conversation. Everyone of these disciplines takes more than a year to learn and the mental aspect can take a lifetime.

[gk10002000]

Aikido if the teacher is good. Great martial art especially for female as it uses other persons energy against them

Taekwando if you ONLY want her to be flexible and fit. Amazing flexibility, jumps, roundhouse kicks in the air, pretty useless in real life when it comes to self defense

I took tae kwon do for a loooong time. It is probably the only reason my legs and back have held up over the years as I recovered from pretty severe lower back surgery L5 laminectomy in 1971 when I was 14! They didn't think I would walk, never mind play sports. I was lucky to have originally studied under Master He IL Cho starting way back in the 70s. The balance and strength foundation as well as explosive power that gave me is fantastic. My subsequent teachers did stress full contact fighting so we really did rough it up pretty good, even having our own fight ring in the studio. That fighting ability saved me twice in my life for sure. Unfortunately, except for extremely advanced levels, traditional Tae Kwon Do just doesn't teach enough real life fight useful techniques. Throws, grappling, submission, arm bars, gouges, on the floor techniques etc. are barely part of training even up to 1st degree black belt. So many fights quickly end up on the floor or at least very close quarters, so those jumping back turning kicks, while powerful just don't work very well.

[Confuscious]

As ex-military I just make sure the barrel is clean and all other parts are working well. Kinda aerobic? Not sure, but just kinda comforting though

Yes, I learned un-armed combat, drive the nose into the brain etc but the "clean barrel" still sits better with me.

I did also my military service and I learnt in a few months how to use my hands as DEADLY weapons.

I will teach my daughter this "close combat" myself in due time.

But teaching her how to kill somebody with her bare hands is not the way I want her to be educated.

In due time, and if she understands what the (ab)use of these techniques can do, I will teach her myself or look for somebody to teach her.

No need to practice for years to be able to defend yourself.

[lvr181]

As ex-military I just make sure the barrel is clean and all other parts are working well. Kinda aerobic? Not sure, but just kinda comforting though

Yes, I learned un-armed combat, drive the nose into the brain etc but the "clean barrel" still sits better with me.

I did also my military service and I learnt in a few months how to use my hands as DEADLY weapons.

I will teach my daughter this "close combat" myself in due time.

But teaching her how to kill somebody with her bare hands is not the way I want her to be educated.

In due time, and if she understands what the (ab)use of these techniques can do, I will teach her myself or look for somebody to teach her.

No need to practice for years to be able to defend yourself.

I concur. But the best method of defence is to attack OR run, bloody fast or at least, fast enough to stay in front of your attacker

[charliebadenhop]

Hi Tommybhill,

Wondering how you came to know that Aikido is useless?

[Confuscious]

This week Saturday, my daughter got her first Aikido belt.
A white belt.

In order to obtain this belt she needed to:
1. Avoid an attack of a single person using 3 different methods.

2. Avoid a knife attack using 3 different methods.

3. Avoid an attack by 2 or more attackers.

All the attackers were skilled Aikido members and minimal 21 years old.

She finished the 3 items successful and got her white belt.

Sunday, at the local restaurant, a "friend" argues about the worth of the white belt and wanted to test my daughter.
Unlucky for him, he broke in his fall several items in the restaurant and hurt his right arm.

Thanks for all the valued inputs in this thread.

[mmh8]

 

Does your daughter have any preference? That must have some bearing on the decision making.

Any of the 3 should be good for fitness and building confidence in a young girl.

And don't be swung just by arguments for or against a particular martial art. Do some research about the schools. Learning at a school with a good teacher/s and reputation is going to reap greater benefits.

My first interest was karate at the local sports centre. It was basically a belt factory. The school wanted to get you to a black belt as fast as possible and not in a good way. I didn't bother.

Back to your choice of 3, I studied Kung <deleted> and aikido. Aikido wasn't until I was in my late 30's, but would have been my preferred choice. The first thing we were taught at aikido was how to 'fall' without hurting yourself. May not sound very exciting, but can be very useful in a fight.

Appreciate they are not on your list, but jiu jitsu or mma are also on my favourites list.

As an ex bouncer, close quarter fighting is much easier if you know how to manipulate an opponent's bodyweight and have knowledge of arm locks, hand locks, etc.

I had a 'friendly' fight with a co-worker who was very good at jiu jitsu. At 16 stone and 6'2", I got beat by a guy 5'8" and about 11 stone (before I studied aikido).

Whatever her choice, if she becomes proficient in any of them, she will be able to take care of herself (if that's one of the objectives). Again, from previous experience, most people have no idea how to fight. A trained fighter should beat joe public everytime in a fight.

1. My daughter has no preference.

But she likes Aikido because several friends in school are learning Aikido too.

2. The "schools" where the 3 selected sports are teach'd have a good reputation.

3. Only the selected 3 sports are teach'd in nearby schools.

For other sports (eg. Karate) I would need to travel too far away.

4. The main purpose is to learn every year an extra-curricular activity.

Until now, she has been doing this for 6 years already, and in every activity she has become very proficient.

I proposed the martial arts for the next activity to her mainly because I wanted her to be capable of defending herself against attackers.

Thanks

 

best thing you can do for your daughter in that case is tell here to avoid trouble at all costs. there is no martial art for dealing with attacker or attackers, and if there really was don't you think thye attackers would know it already.

redefine your question as martial arts for confidence in movement, flexibilty, strength, gymnastic qualities etc and the answer is simple, what ever she enjoyus, any one trying to convince you that "self defence " applications are gonna work are living in a dream world themselves.

for any disbelievers take your martial arts and jump in a cage, octagon, vale tudo etc, ok you get restricted on eye gouge and groin gouge and some won't even let you attack knees or the spine, but you'll find that even in a place where almost anything goes your martial arts will barely help.

someone trying to teach your child or an adult that self defence will work is dishonest, and deluded at best.

another example, if you see a bouncer outside a club start a fight with them and try your self defense moves there

[charliebadenhop]

As this last post has a lot of mis-information in my mind, I thought I would respond...

1. There is no martial art for dealing with attacker or attackers, and if there really was don't you think the attackers would know it already.

Hard for me to make sense out of the above.

Does not EVERY martial art have a way of dealing with attack?

I think it is highly unlikely that anyone will ever get attacked by anyone with serious martial arts training.

People who attack other people are rarely going to have the temperament to learn how to counteract a DEFENSIVE move.

2. any one trying to convince you that "self defence " applications are gonna work are living in a dream world themselves.

Well, this statement goes against the experience of scores of people the world over.

​Well executed self defense moves are highly effective.

The main reasons being that an attacker will usually be quite surprised by what is done, and that most attackers have little to no serious martial arts experience.

3. for any disbelievers take your martial arts and jump in a cage, octagon, vale tudo etc, ok you get restricted on eye gouge and groin gouge and some won't even let you attack knees or the spine, but you'll find that even in a place where almost anything goes your martial arts will barely help.

Here you are confusing self defense with various fighting sports.

​There is little to no comparison.

4. someone trying to teach your child or an adult that self defence will work is dishonest, and deluded at best.

Gee... what more can I say.

5. another example, if you see a bouncer outside a club start a fight with them and try your self defense moves there

//

Again, major confusion.

You do not START a fight and then use self defense skills.

You use self defense when someone attacks you.

Most self defense is not going to help you all that much if someone wants to box with you, or use karate etc. on you, but I have never heard of a case where someone was attacked by a person who had high level martial arts skills.

You use self defense skills (for the most part) when you are up close and personal with someone, and their eyes, throat, groin, etc. are within reach.

QED

[mmh8]

ah, my point has been misunderstood, your martial arts will rarely work in the real world. In the real world he or she who hits first with the greatest intent will win. there is no art of self defence other than be the attacker.

should you attempt to convince your daughter she can defend herself with karate, judo, ninjitus, gung <deleted> etc you are setting her up for a scary lesson should she encounter a situation in which survival is necessazry.

I am sure others on this forum must have real experience in what works and what does not, teaching your daugter to avoid at all costs, walk away and run away will do far more to benefit her than convincing her self defense works,

unless of course you mean attack first with what ever you happen to have at hand with the intent to damage, injur, incapacitate and then run away.

If you truly think defense is the answer, I doubt you have ever had real encounter with violence

edit with respect to your comment about the self defense begins when someone attacks you is wrong, it ought to have begun long before you walked in the room, walked out your door, stepped out your car etc etc etc.. its people like you who sit there woith a black belt or similar preaching bad information that borders on negligence and is plain ignorrant,

Edited June 29, 2015 by mmh8

[Mooner]

Wing chun.

[FritsSikkink]

aikido

[tailspin]

I do agree with your "avoiding trouble" bit. Otherwise, your post has alot of misinformation.

First off MMA fighters study one or several martial arts, so you contradict yourself straight off.

Further, MMA is a sport and a business and has loads of rules, not just the ones you mention.

Most of these are to prevent serious injury and/or death, and to protect the commercial value of the fighters who are the end product after all.

For example strikes to the back of the head, vertical dropping elbow strikes, kicking opponent on ground etcetcetcetc.

Also in real life you are not in a cage, there are no refs protecting you, no official starting and stopping, and no split decisions by the judges. Trying a takedown on the streets when surrounded by possible hostiles and multiple attackers is not a good strategy either

Don't get me wrong, I find MMA very entertaining as a sport. But real life is different.

Martial sports and martial arts/budo are not the same.

To answer the original question, since the OP is in Thailand, why not take the opportunity to study with the best instructors in the world and study Muay Thai.....

You can always study other martial arts later as well.

 

best thing you can do for your daughter in that case is tell here to avoid trouble at all costs. there is no martial art for dealing with attacker or attackers, and if there really was don't you think thye attackers would know it already.
redefine your question as martial arts for confidence in movement, flexibilty, strength, gymnastic qualities etc and the answer is simple, what ever she enjoyus, any one trying to convince you that "self defence " applications are gonna work are living in a dream world themselves.

for any disbelievers take your martial arts and jump in a cage, octagon, vale tudo etc, ok you get restricted on eye gouge and groin gouge and some won't even let you attack knees or the spine, but you'll find that even in a place where almost anything goes your martial arts will barely help.

someone trying to teach your child or an adult that self defence will work is dishonest, and deluded at best.

another example, if you see a bouncer outside a club start a fight with them and try your self defense moves there

Edited July 24, 2015 by tailspin

[mmh8]

I think you monsier tailspin you are arguing the case for me. real life is different outside of the ring outside of the dojo. the fools selling their services as self defence when they pracitse what ifs are negligent and dangerously so.

they could get closer to experiencing getting hit in all sorts of ways by entering a sports ring, but even those most exceptional fighters within the ring will all agree its not the same as a street fight.

martial arts is one thing with its own benefits that are well understood.

self defence is something else and is not the correct approach to violence with no rules. my point being that defence is the wrong mindset while attack is the correct one. thinking wait for opponent will get you hopefully only beaten but likley worse,

choreographed moves that work if someone pretends to punch at a certain location look good on video , but not if those you face decide to dance to a different tune.

thus if op or any one wishes for a martial arts for flexibilty, confidence, discipline and other qualities that is one thing, if the op is asking for self defence then they should look elsewhere than coreographed aikido, karate, kung <deleted> etc etc etc.

Edited August 5, 2015 by mmh8

[charliebadenhop]

mmh8, I find your thinking SO interesting!

You wrote-

self defence is something else and is not the correct approach to violence with no rules. my point being that defence is the wrong mindset while attack is the correct one. thinking wait for opponent will get you hopefully only beaten but likley worse

//

So are you saying here that if you think someone is likely to try and attack you, then the best thing to do is to attack the other person first?

Then you wrote:

if the op is asking for self defence then they should look elsewhere than coreographed aikido, karate, kung <deleted> etc etc etc.

//

So what art are you suggesting then?

Every martial art that I know of involves practicing basics over and over and over again. Most if not all martial arts also have as a part of their study, choreographed actions that are meant to simulate what is likely to occur in a real attack.

So after a LOT of practice of the basics, and a LOT of coreographed practice, it is hoped the the practitioner will be able to perform spontaneously.

You can think of it like you might have learned how to drive or do many other complex physical tasks. With enough training, you can perform in the moment without the need to think.

​By the way, and I think I might have asked you before...

What training in martial arts do you have?

Charlie

[tailspin]

Have to disagree with you on a number of points.

You give pretty bad advice in telling people that they need to get in a sports ring and sustain blows to the head in order to gain experience, as you say..medical experts tend to agree that repeated blows to the head are not healthy. Just ask Muhammed Ali or Joey Gamache (sustained permanent brain damage and almost died from a single KO at the hands of Arturo Gatti- see youtube for the video). A matador does not need to be gored by a bull to be considered an expert matador....

Also at an advanced level there is no difference between offence, defence, even daily life......they all exist in the same complex harmony, along with awareness, inner calm, morals, ethics, legal and societal obligations....so maybe the term "self-defence" is a bit deficient. However, I definitely disagree with your idea of going around attacking people as a form of defence.

The OP asked for practical advice for 12 year old, so maybe you could help.

Studying a martial art would have physical, mental and confidence benefits for the child...physical "self-defence" or whatever you want to call it is not the only the objective.

I think you monsier tailspin you are arguing the case for me. real life is different outside of the ring outside of the dojo. the fools selling their services as self defence when they pracitse what ifs are negligent and dangerously so.

they could get closer to experiencing getting hit in all sorts of ways by entering a sports ring, but even those most exceptional fighters within the ring will all agree its not the same as a street fight.

martial arts is one thing with its own benefits that are well understood.

self defence is something else and is not the correct approach to violence with no rules. my point being that defence is the wrong mindset while attack is the correct one. thinking wait for opponent will get you hopefully only beaten but likley worse,

choreographed moves that work if someone pretends to punch at a certain location look good on video , but not if those you face decide to dance to a different tune.


thus if op or any one wishes for a martial arts for flexibilty, confidence, discipline and other qualities that is one thing, if the op is asking for self defence then they should look elsewhere than coreographed aikido, karate, kung <deleted> etc etc etc.

Edited August 6, 2015 by tailspin

[mmh8]

tail spin you have deliberatly misunderstood my point. consider yourself ignored. However,

my advice to the OP is that the disclipline of any of them is as good as any other. developing flexiblity, balance etc. some have interesting roots, for example the ones that come from teaching buddhist monks that sitting on your arse all day asleep is not very heatlhy. As I wrote in my last post.

However some of the posters starting veering off topic from martial art into self defense. which is where you are being corrected.

the point about the boxing, mma, or bjj is that you try your aikido stuff in the ring and you will be beaten. I know. you try it in the street and you will be joining the others who thought that being a black belt in nija karate,ninja kung f u or aikido ninja would help them.

What works for a 6 foot 100kg bouncer, bodyguard, hospital guard, squaddie etc will not work for 5.5 ft 45 kg girl. the punches are insignificant, the kicks a joke, the attempts at throwing comedy. so you want to try your self defense - and above you write it is all the same at a high level. so if it is all the same , go start a fight with a bouncer or guard. see what your ninja moves get you? that is the point being made, which you misquote etc etc.

so keep the conversation on martial arts and your on safe ground.

when it comes to self defence your what if itsu will get you hurt.

I can google badenhop and i see he is aikido. i see the aikido people on you tube, yeah very graceful and coreographed moves. they are very satisfied with parroting the moves of akidos founder. however, none of those in the coreographed dances is a commited attack by someone determined to hurt you.

the self defence aspect is a sales pitch, to bring in the scared and the weak. it is not the truth. you tell people if some comes at you with a punch like this you can do this and feel happy. it is little more than mental masturbation, common amongst the martial arts type. inner calm does not defend you from repeated attacks to your vulnerable points with a knife - or maybe for you it does?

Edited August 6, 2015 by mmh8

[mmh8]

 

mmh8, I find your thinking SO interesting!

You wrote-

self defence is something else and is not the correct approach to violence with no rules. my point being that defence is the wrong mindset while attack is the correct one. thinking wait for opponent will get you hopefully only beaten but likley worse

//

So are you saying here that if you think someone is likely to try and attack you, then the best thing to do is to attack the other person first?

Then you wrote:

if the op is asking for self defence then they should look elsewhere than coreographed aikido, karate, kung <deleted> etc etc etc.

//

So what art are you suggesting then?

Every martial art that I know of involves practicing basics over and over and over again. Most if not all martial arts also have as a part of their study, choreographed actions that are meant to simulate what is likely to occur in a real attack.

So after a LOT of practice of the basics, and a LOT of coreographed practice, it is hoped the the practitioner will be able to perform spontaneously.

You can think of it like you might have learned how to drive or do many other complex physical tasks. With enough training, you can perform in the moment without the need to think.

​By the way, and I think I might have asked you before...

What training in martial arts do you have?

Charlie

 

first question- yes , its called beating someone to the punch, you get that 1st grab to the testicles, pull twist and tear, follow that up by repeated hits to nerve centres, once the opponent is on the ground continue the punishment until there is no more resistance. Thai boxing while I am not recommending it as a form of self defence understands this principle. when the head is being pulled down, the neck can sustain a constant force downwards preventing the head from being controlled. thai boxing will teach you that a crank type movement will bring that head down. the body has no choice since it can deal with a constant force downwards, but repeated pulsed cranking of the neck down will trick the body - I know to subtle for you , so next example

you hit the nose as hard bone into the skull towards the brain, the shock causes your body to react , to protect that injury, you follow that up by attempting to launch the testicles into the body cavity, another shock , the body will react to this injury and attempt to protect it ...... and on and on.

your self defence training has left your muscles ready to react to another movement, while you have marginal error space in your attempt to deal with the first incoming injury, and attempt to ninja it away the next attack is coming, now the first attack is meant to do damage, you will react to it there is a greater space for error as all over that zone there are other targets to get.

second question - as I mention in the other posts, if martial arts are being practised for themselves then any will do, they will all teach balance, flexibility, confidence, body confidence etc, just like they say about food, eat the seasonal stuff. But that is where it ends. Its a martial art, or a sport in some/many cases. I beleive that point is clear now. However it is not self defence being asked for here, it is a martial art.

3rd question - indeed you are talking about muscle memory and training. Were you to train yourself for combat, you would practise attacking before you are attacked. e.g. the spitfire pilot aces did not wait to be shot then ninja out on the german planes, they shot first. you train aikido, you do not train self defence. You train by definition the way of love or harmony or similar. you do not train self defence. when you train your coreographed responses you are training yourself to react. that will get you hurt or seriously killed. train your self to act and you are onto a winner. train yourself to look for the damage zone and hit it with everything you';ve got, then follow up on the next easiest target.

Thus, to claim you teach self defence is negligent. you teach people to wait, and train your body to wait, that is fine, as an art form, and aikido is graceful and you practise anything for long enough you get efficient and move well. However, you are teaching your body to wait, and if a knife is heading in your general direction with pointy end leading you will probably discover the error in your ways. Though you should not be preaching your incorrect, views to people on self defence, when it is only aikido, or what ever your art of ninja is. In my opinion it is dangeriously negligent .

as for my art, all and none, I play anything given the chance and especially if it is fun. The arts are all great in their own ways,. But, they are just that, the arts. They are not teaching self defence.

[charliebadenhop]

Hi,

Now that you have made it clear that you don't have extensive experience in any martial art(s) it makes what you write more understandable.

Your thinking and my thinking are WAY far apart, and so be it.

One obvious concern for me, with someone who thinks like you, is the seemingly obvious ethical and legal dilemmas you would need to deal with if ever faced with a real life situation.

In most every country of the world, what you describe doing to protect yourself could easily be considered "assault and battery" and punishable by a term in jail.

"No your honor the other person did not strike me even once."

"Yes your honor, I twisted the other persons testicles, followed up by repeated hits to their various nerve centers, and then once they fell to the ground I continued to punish them until they showed no more resistance."

"I state again your honor, the other person did not strike or otherwise physically assault me, because my attack on them was pre-emptive. It is what I consider to be self defense."

Not a situation I would be wanting to face!

All the best to you, and I hope you never need to implement your belief system in this regard.

Charlie

[mmh8]

Hi,

Now that you have made it clear that you don't have extensive experience in any martial art(s) it makes what you write more understandable.

Your thinking and my thinking are WAY far apart, and so be it.

One obvious concern for me, with someone who thinks like you, is the seemingly obvious ethical and legal dilemmas you would need to deal with if ever faced with a real life situation.

In most every country of the world, what you describe doing to protect yourself could easily be considered "assault and battery" and punishable by a term in jail.

"No your honor the other person did not strike me even once."

"Yes your honor, I twisted the other persons testicles, followed up by repeated hits to their various nerve centers, and then once they fell to the ground I continued to punish them until they showed no more resistance."

"I state again your honor, the other person did not strike or otherwise physically assault me, because my attack on them was pre-emptive. It is what I consider to be self defense."

Not a situation I would be wanting to face!

All the best to you, and I hope you never need to implement your belief system in this regard.

Charlie

"Now that you have made it clear that you don't have extensive experience in any martial art(s) it makes what you write more understandable."

"Your thinking and my thinking are WAY far apart, and so be it."

to you what is clear is incorrect, I have not informed you of my experience in martial arts.

However, I surmise you base your view of self defense on watching kung films and you tube videos of people practising aikido.

"One obvious concern for me, with someone who thinks like you, is the seemingly obvious ethical and legal dilemmas you would need to deal with if ever faced with a real life situation.

In most every country of the world, what you describe doing to protect yourself could easily be considered "assault and battery" and punishable by a term in jail."

I've heard this one before. were you to be in a life and death situation where you need to use violence then this is a minor concern. not bar room face saving, not a show agression for other people. If you ever find yourself in that situation Charlie you may wish someone was coming to save you, the police would do, but they rarely arrive in the couple of seconds it takes to go down. when someone attacks you with intent to damage, you need to do damage first, at least in the court you will be the one uninjured. Hopefully, or at least less so.

Have you ever experienced a life or death situation ? not an antisocial type thing, or my dick is bigger than yours type thing ( though even those go awry with the occasional accidental death with loss of freedom for the other party ) I mean a real fight.

because your input to the discussion is indicative of the negative, I would not worry too much, we all go through the mental masturbation bit with the self defence cos we are all scared. However, at some point you ought to think things through and realise that training yourself to react will get you hurt or killed. Training yourself to act, will give you a fighting chance. . viloence is needed if the question is asked, There is no other answer. because the only other answer is to be on the losing side of a game with no rules.

"One obvious concern for me, with someone who thinks like you, is the seemingly obvious ethical and legal dilemmas you would need to deal with if ever faced with a real life situation."

Why would this be a concern for you? there is no dilemma - I mean what if you are looking at this sort of thing happening to your child, wife, sister, brother, parents ???

I suggest again that you consider the truth of the matter - cutting through the illusions and nonsense with the sword of truth or similar - you may really belevie that what you have taught over the past 20 years really is self defence. Then again you may be calculating and know that you can bring the scared and weak into your class by providoing false confidence , the martial arts equivalent of the people who teach others how to pick up girls and treat them like objects. Which of those are you? I don't know, I don't have enough and don't really care, cos there are a thousand odd masters, grandmasters, sifu etc etc. But you should care, as a student of 20 + years, you really ought want to know the truth. Were it me, I know I would., I know I would still think things through and search for the truth.

Additionally, if, as I suspect, you have never been in a situation in which you have needed to be offensive. then how can you ever teach it? let alone discuss it.

Surely you are not qualified?

Edited August 8, 2015 by mmh8

[ConnectionNotGuaranteed]

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3220730/Humiliated-robber-trapped-leg-lock-begs-Daddy-attacking-woman-Brazil-unaware-martial-arts-champion.html?ito=social-facebook

[tailspin]

am guessing lulling people to sleep with boring fantasy stories is a big part of your strategy....a good non-violent approach

tail spin you have deliberatly misunderstood my point. consider yourself ignored. However,

my advice to the OP is that the disclipline of any of them is as good as any other. developing flexiblity, balance etc. some have interesting roots, for example the ones that come from teaching buddhist monks that sitting on your arse all day asleep is not very heatlhy. As I wrote in my last post.

However some of the posters starting veering off topic from martial art into self defense. which is where you are being corrected.

the point about the boxing, mma, or bjj is that you try your aikido stuff in the ring and you will be beaten. I know. you try it in the street and you will be joining the others who thought that being a black belt in nija karate,ninja kung f u or aikido ninja would help them.

What works for a 6 foot 100kg bouncer, bodyguard, hospital guard, squaddie etc will not work for 5.5 ft 45 kg girl. the punches are insignificant, the kicks a joke, the attempts at throwing comedy. so you want to try your self defense - and above you write it is all the same at a high level. so if it is all the same , go start a fight with a bouncer or guard. see what your ninja moves get you? that is the point being made, which you misquote etc etc.

so keep the conversation on martial arts and your on safe ground.

when it comes to self defence your what if itsu will get you hurt.

I can google badenhop and i see he is aikido. i see the aikido people on you tube, yeah very graceful and coreographed moves. they are very satisfied with parroting the moves of akidos founder. however, none of those in the coreographed dances is a commited attack by someone determined to hurt you.

the self defence aspect is a sales pitch, to bring in the scared and the weak. it is not the truth. you tell people if some comes at you with a punch like this you can do this and feel happy. it is little more than mental masturbation, common amongst the martial arts type. inner calm does not defend you from repeated attacks to your vulnerable points with a knife - or maybe for you it does?

[FritsSikkink]

 

Does your daughter have any preference? That must have some bearing on the decision making.

Any of the 3 should be good for fitness and building confidence in a young girl.

And don't be swung just by arguments for or against a particular martial art. Do some research about the schools. Learning at a school with a good teacher/s and reputation is going to reap greater benefits.

My first interest was karate at the local sports centre. It was basically a belt factory. The school wanted to get you to a black belt as fast as possible and not in a good way. I didn't bother.

Back to your choice of 3, I studied Kung <deleted> and aikido. Aikido wasn't until I was in my late 30's, but would have been my preferred choice. The first thing we were taught at aikido was how to 'fall' without hurting yourself. May not sound very exciting, but can be very useful in a fight.

Appreciate they are not on your list, but jiu jitsu or mma are also on my favourites list.

As an ex bouncer, close quarter fighting is much easier if you know how to manipulate an opponent's bodyweight and have knowledge of arm locks, hand locks, etc.

I had a 'friendly' fight with a co-worker who was very good at jiu jitsu. At 16 stone and 6'2", I got beat by a guy 5'8" and about 11 stone (before I studied aikido).

Whatever her choice, if she becomes proficient in any of them, she will be able to take care of herself (if that's one of the objectives). Again, from previous experience, most people have no idea how to fight. A trained fighter should beat joe public everytime in a fight.

1. My daughter has no preference.

But she likes Aikido because several friends in school are learning Aikido too.

2. The "schools" where the 3 selected sports are teach'd have a good reputation.

3. Only the selected 3 sports are teach'd in nearby schools.

For other sports (eg. Karate) I would need to travel too far away.

4. The main purpose is to learn every year an extra-curricular activity.

Until now, she has been doing this for 6 years already, and in every activity she has become very proficient.

I proposed the martial arts for the next activity to her mainly because I wanted her to be capable of defending herself against attackers.

Thanks

 

best thing you can do for your daughter in that case is tell here to avoid trouble at all costs. there is no martial art for dealing with attacker or attackers, and if there really was don't you think thye attackers would know it already.

redefine your question as martial arts for confidence in movement, flexibilty, strength, gymnastic qualities etc and the answer is simple, what ever she enjoyus, any one trying to convince you that "self defence " applications are gonna work are living in a dream world themselves.

for any disbelievers take your martial arts and jump in a cage, octagon, vale tudo etc, ok you get restricted on eye gouge and groin gouge and some won't even let you attack knees or the spine, but you'll find that even in a place where almost anything goes your martial arts will barely help.

someone trying to teach your child or an adult that self defence will work is dishonest, and deluded at best.

another example, if you see a bouncer outside a club start a fight with them and try your self defense moves there

never read so much nonsense in 1 post

[Craig krup]

If self-defence is the issue, rather than a sport, get her to grow her nails and strengthen them with layers of clear varnish. The try to cultivate as much pride, self-belief and indignation in her as you possibly can - a real sense of entitlement. With those two things in place the rest will happen naturally: she'll go ballistic, rip someone's face of and kick with complete disinhibition. The reality of violence is where you start if it's self-defence - weapons and indignation.

[jing jing]

Surprising that more hasn't been said about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which I believe is actually a martial art of Japanese origins.

Has anyone heard of the Gracie family? Google is your friend. Their history of "street" fighting dominance goes back to the 1920's when Helio Gracie demonstrated the superiority of his techniques in outmaneuvering and submitting larger, physically superior opponents regardless of their fighting style. To this day, any fighter hoping to succeed in the pro MMA arena must have high level skills in BJJ as part of their repertoire, with Muay Thai training optional but extremely useful.

My two sons, now 8 and 10 - born and raised in Thailand until just a little over a year ago - have both been involved in martial arts since they were 5. They began training with Hansoo Taekwondo, and after 2 years progressed to brown and red belt level with a couple of tournament medals each before we moved to California. Since that time, they've been training in BJJ at the Gracie gym in LA. We returned to Thailand for their summer break this year, and for two months they trained with local Thai kids at a well established neighborhood Muay Thai gym.

I regard my boys' martial arts training as a solid foundation for a lifetime of physical fitness, discipline, confidence, and self esteem. When it comes to schoolyard bullies, they have the skills to severely punish anyone foolish enough to try, and the discipline to use them only in self defense. One small demonstration is enough to discourage any future attempts.

To summarize, I would say that any martial arts training with a competent instructor/coach ought to be beneficial for all boys and girls 5 and up. No reasonable person sees a couple years of Taekwondo, or similar training for kids, as sufficient preparation to go up against a bigger, stronger, more skilled opponent in a streetfight, nor should it be done for that purpose. For helping kids develop discipline, physical fitness, social skills, confidence, self esteem - any proper type of MA training is a good idea, without a doubt.

[tailspin]

Might be true in an organized sports contest, but going to ground on the street where you could be surrounded by hostiles is extremely risky......

Surprising that more hasn't been said about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which I believe is actually a martial art of Japanese origins.

Has anyone heard of the Gracie family? Google is your friend. Their history of "street" fighting dominance goes back to the 1920's when Helio Gracie demonstrated the superiority of his techniques in outmaneuvering and submitting larger, physically superior opponents regardless of their fighting style. To this day, any fighter hoping to succeed in the pro MMA arena must have high level skills in BJJ as part of their repertoire, with Muay Thai training optional but extremely useful.

My two sons, now 8 and 10 - born and raised in Thailand until just a little over a year ago - have both been involved in martial arts since they were 5. They began training with Hansoo Taekwondo, and after 2 years progressed to brown and red belt level with a couple of tournament medals each before we moved to California. Since that time, they've been training in BJJ at the Gracie gym in LA. We returned to Thailand for their summer break this year, and for two months they trained with local Thai kids at a well established neighborhood Muay Thai gym.

I regard my boys' martial arts training as a solid foundation for a lifetime of physical fitness, discipline, confidence, and self esteem. When it comes to schoolyard bullies, they have the skills to severely punish anyone foolish enough to try, and the discipline to use them only in self defense. One small demonstration is enough to discourage any future attempts.

To summarize, I would say that any martial arts training with a competent instructor/coach ought to be beneficial for all boys and girls 5 and up. No reasonable person sees a couple years of Taekwondo, or similar training for kids, as sufficient preparation to go up against a bigger, stronger, more skilled opponent in a streetfight, nor should it be done for that purpose. For helping kids develop discipline, physical fitness, social skills, confidence, self esteem - any proper type of MA training is a good idea, without a doubt.

[jing jing]

Just as an aside, I don't believe that there is any single fighting discipline which can prepare you to go up against an opponent skilled in multiple styles. A well timed and properly executed TKD kick to the head may work sometimes, but if not, what then?

In a real world, straight up, no holds barred fight to the finish I would put my money on any guy with a combined background of rigorous Muay Thai training for the physical conditioning, strikes and clinches, and high level BJJ training for the takedown, grappling, and submission skills. That is a hard combination to beat.

[blomarel]

You make some good points, but there is no such thing as a "real world, straight up...fight"

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.

One final point, muay thai training offers great fitness and practical skills for the young'uns....any martial arts with joint locks such as judo jujitsu should be undertaken with care as young kids who are not fully developed can get permanent damage to joints which are tweaked the wrong way....

Just as an aside, I don't believe that there is any single fighting discipline which can prepare you to go up against an opponent skilled in multiple styles. A well timed and properly executed TKD kick to the head may work sometimes, but if not, what then?

In a real world, straight up, no holds barred fight to the finish I would put my money on any guy with a combined background of rigorous Muay Thai training for the physical conditioning, strikes and clinches, and high level BJJ training for the takedown, grappling, and submission skills. That is a hard combination to beat.

[jing jing]

You make some good points, but there is no such thing as a "real world, straight up...fight"

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.

One final point, muay thai training offers great fitness and practical skills for the young'uns....any martial arts with joint locks such as judo jujitsu should be undertaken with care as young kids who are not fully developed can get permanent damage to joints which are tweaked the wrong way....

Your points are also well taken. Nowadays, any situation

[jing jing]

You make some good points, but there is no such thing as a "real world, straight up...fight"

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.

One final point, muay thai training offers great fitness and practical skills for the young'uns....any martial arts with joint locks such as judo jujitsu should be undertaken with care as young kids who are not fully developed can get permanent damage to joints which are tweaked the wrong way....

Your points are also well taken. I should replace "real world" with "hypothetical" since in any real world confrontation, one or even all of the antagonists may possess lethal weapons - i.e. the old adage about bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Also have to agree about the need to exercise great caution and seek the most competent instruction available in the practice of Jiu Jitsu - many of the basic techniques of locks and cranks will cause either excruciating pain or unconsciousness if pressure is not carefully modulated - but with proper instruction kids will quickly learn to stay within the limits.

[jing jing]

My apologies if I belabor the point a bit, but if one Googles for example "gracie challenge," "gracie vale tudo," or "rickson gracie," there are many youtube videos from back in the day of fighting with no rules, no time limits, no stopping until one of the fighters either submits or is incapacitated. Definitely not for the squeamish.

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.