Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

fritzzz25 · March 26, 2015

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

555... hilarious! It's very gracious of you to give me the freedom to disbelieve. I would say that a more accurate statement would be that in the absence of anything to corroborate your claims regarding when Panya's promotion was announced I am free to declare you a liar and a charlatan whose intention is to deceive and mislead. Hmmmm... although I can see why you would prefer to label me as a disbeliever.

If you would like to shut me up you could convince me by finding the articles that confirm your assertions, telling me the exact date the articles appeared and the names of the publications they appeared in, and I can do the rest. To my understanding that would not be breaking any forum rules. And while you're at it show me the links to the historic reporting of trials

The point about the moot point you mention is that it was not my point, as you well know. My point was simply that you seem to enjoy making statements that suit your agenda and presenting them as undeniable facts, and yet when scrutinized and requests are made for you to substantiate these "undeniable facts" what is glaringly apparent is that the statements lack any factual content whatsoever, and in the place of facts lies a disturbing undertone of prejudice and propaganda.

But hey, don't let my observations stop you from doing what you do best...

This is exactly what a few posters have done. Spewed "facts" without anything to back it up. They are "prosecuting" this matter on here, yet have no proof to back it up.

If we do not believe their views, we are "disbelievers" and "conspiracy theorists". I think there is a saying about throwing stones when you live in a glass house.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

Cats....

Cleared is cleared.

And smeared is smeared.
Prayuth, the day after Hannah and David's lives were wiped out -

"Tourists think that Thailand is beautiful, safe and that they can do anything they want here. That they can put on their bikinis and go anywhere they want. I ask, can you get away with wearing bikinis in Thailand? Unless you are not beautiful?"

and the day after -

"I am sorry with what I said and if it has caused any ill-feelings. I just wanted to warn tourists that we have different traditions and they have to stay on their toes."

Non Sequitur

PaPiPuPePo · March 26, 2015

UK pathologist's opinion of above case in this article:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Nick-Pearson-inquest-Family-Derbyshire-man-dead/story-25741734-detail/story.html

Unrelated case, but a bad knee and 4x the legal blood alcohol level....

Re Bert..

The UK media has reported on what other people have said including on social media. AFAIK there has been 0 investigative reporting on the conspiracy theories presented on social media.

Stop with this long winded conspiracy theory nonsense. You clearly do not understand what a 'conspiracy theory" is. You have been banging on about it for months. Man on the moon, JFK, aliens landing on centre court at Wimbledon... these are conspiracies. You use the words to undermine legitimate concerns of justice. So for the love of god please stop.

This member right on this page says: "I am laughing, but not at the crimes, just at the lengths people go to to blame anyone but the defendants."

As if it weren’t already obvious he’s convinced they’re guilty and NOTHING is going to change his mind. Why do you guys waste your time trying?

Anyone who disagrees with him is labeled a “conspiracy theorist” even though as you point out he’s using this term incorrectly. It’s insulting to me to have my perfectly valid opinions dismissed without comment as “conspiracy;” it completely invalidates them. Insulting other members is a violation of forum rules, so it’s best to report these comments rather than respond to them.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

555... hilarious! It's very gracious of you to give me the freedom to disbelieve. I would say that a more accurate statement would be that in the absence of anything to corroborate your claims regarding when Panya's promotion was announced I am free to declare you a liar and a charlatan whose intention is to deceive and mislead. Hmmmm... although I can see why you would prefer to label me as a disbeliever.

If you would like to shut me up you could convince me by finding the articles that confirm your assertions, telling me the exact date the articles appeared and the names of the publications they appeared in, and I can do the rest. To my understanding that would not be breaking any forum rules. And while you're at it show me the links to the historic reporting of trials

The point about the moot point you mention is that it was not my point, as you well know. My point was simply that you seem to enjoy making statements that suit your agenda and presenting them as undeniable facts, and yet when scrutinized and requests are made for you to substantiate these "undeniable facts" what is glaringly apparent is that the statements lack any factual content whatsoever, and in the place of facts lies a disturbing undertone of prejudice and propaganda.

But hey, don't let my observations stop you from doing what you do best...

This is exactly what a few posters have done. Spewed "facts" without anything to back it up. They are "prosecuting" this matter on here, yet have no proof to back it up.

If we do not believe their views, we are "disbelievers" and "conspiracy theorists". I think there is a saying about throwing stones when you live in a glass house.

Yes.

I remember one of those. Someone claimed that blunt trauma could not cause wounds that appear like cuts. He even posted a wiki link! Of course, the material referenced in the wiki directly refuted that. The most interesting part of that was he was claiming expert experience status...

I had previously noted the date of the first mention of the promotion as the 12th of September.

The date is moot because the claim that the investigation magically changed direction AFTER Panya was promoted has been proven false. Even though up until yesterday that claim was still being made. The people who the conspiracy theorists wanted to be guilty were cleared 7 days before the promotion.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.
But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

Strange that you skipped the paragraph immediately before the one you posted about the DNA of 200

"Meanwhile on Thursday Pol Maj-Gen Suwat Jaengyodsuk, acting chief investigator of the Metropolitan Police Bureau (MPB), who was sent to help local police investigate the murder, said police had collected 30 DNA samples from migrant workers on the island in a bid to find clues to the murders."

I have a meeting but will find the link later showing that while 200 were collected by the 28th, only a smaller number of those tests had been completed (about 36)

I have posted this refutation several times.

PaPiPuPePo · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:
BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.

But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.
>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.
>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Yes, what a joke. None of the names are related to the KT investigation. How could that not be obvious to the poster? One wouldn't want to knowingly publish inaccurate information as that would be a violation of forum rules.

fritzzz25 · March 26, 2015

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.

The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

555... hilarious! It's very gracious of you to give me the freedom to disbelieve. I would say that a more accurate statement would be that in the absence of anything to corroborate your claims regarding when Panya's promotion was announced I am free to declare you a liar and a charlatan whose intention is to deceive and mislead. Hmmmm... although I can see why you would prefer to label me as a disbeliever.

If you would like to shut me up you could convince me by finding the articles that confirm your assertions, telling me the exact date the articles appeared and the names of the publications they appeared in, and I can do the rest. To my understanding that would not be breaking any forum rules. And while you're at it show me the links to the historic reporting of trials

The point about the moot point you mention is that it was not my point, as you well know. My point was simply that you seem to enjoy making statements that suit your agenda and presenting them as undeniable facts, and yet when scrutinized and requests are made for you to substantiate these "undeniable facts" what is glaringly apparent is that the statements lack any factual content whatsoever, and in the place of facts lies a disturbing undertone of prejudice and propaganda.

But hey, don't let my observations stop you from doing what you do best...

This is exactly what a few posters have done. Spewed "facts" without anything to back it up. They are "prosecuting" this matter on here, yet have no proof to back it up.

If we do not believe their views, we are "disbelievers" and "conspiracy theorists". I think there is a saying about throwing stones when you live in a glass house.

Yes.

I remember one of those. Someone claimed that blunt trauma could not cause wounds that appear like cuts. He even posted a wiki link! Of course, the material referenced in the wiki directly refuted that. The most interesting part of that was he was claiming expert experience status...

I had previously noted the date of the first mention of the promotion as the 12th of September.

The date is moot because the claim that the investigation magically changed direction AFTER Panya was promoted has been proven false. Even though up until yesterday that claim was still being made. The people who the conspiracy theorists wanted to be guilty were cleared 7 days before the promotion.

I wouldn't be shocked to see some wiki links edited to meet the satisfaction of the RTP supporters. And I still haven't seen the "facts" from the RTP cheer leading squad. If there is such proof that these boys are guilty, where is the proof? Ah yes, it doesn't exist. Fabricated stories, manipulated evidence, switched DNA........ But, of course, we will never see these "facts" provided by the "rah rah siss boom bah" crew.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

Jimmy - as I cannot post from Phuketwan or Thai language sources, you are free to disbelieve.
The point, as brought up by the conspiracy theorists is moot, since Panya cleared the people who some people are obsessed with blaming on September 25th

Edit to add link requested by boomerangutang

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

555... hilarious! It's very gracious of you to give me the freedom to disbelieve. I would say that a more accurate statement would be that in the absence of anything to corroborate your claims regarding when Panya's promotion was announced I am free to declare you a liar and a charlatan whose intention is to deceive and mislead. Hmmmm... although I can see why you would prefer to label me as a disbeliever.

If you would like to shut me up you could convince me by finding the articles that confirm your assertions, telling me the exact date the articles appeared and the names of the publications they appeared in, and I can do the rest. To my understanding that would not be breaking any forum rules. And while you're at it show me the links to the historic reporting of trials

The point about the moot point you mention is that it was not my point, as you well know. My point was simply that you seem to enjoy making statements that suit your agenda and presenting them as undeniable facts, and yet when scrutinized and requests are made for you to substantiate these "undeniable facts" what is glaringly apparent is that the statements lack any factual content whatsoever, and in the place of facts lies a disturbing undertone of prejudice and propaganda.

But hey, don't let my observations stop you from doing what you do best...

This is exactly what a few posters have done. Spewed "facts" without anything to back it up. They are "prosecuting" this matter on here, yet have no proof to back it up.

If we do not believe their views, we are "disbelievers" and "conspiracy theorists". I think there is a saying about throwing stones when you live in a glass house.

Yes.

I remember one of those. Someone claimed that blunt trauma could not cause wounds that appear like cuts. He even posted a wiki link! Of course, the material referenced in the wiki directly refuted that. The most interesting part of that was he was claiming expert experience status...

I had previously noted the date of the first mention of the promotion as the 12th of September.

The date is moot because the claim that the investigation magically changed direction AFTER Panya was promoted has been proven false. Even though up until yesterday that claim was still being made. The people who the conspiracy theorists wanted to be guilty were cleared 7 days before the promotion.

I wouldn't be shocked to see some wiki links edited to meet the satisfaction of the RTP supporters. And I still haven't seen the "facts" from the RTP cheer leading squad. If there is such proof that these boys are guilty, where is the proof? Ah yes, it doesn't exist. Fabricated stories, manipulated evidence, switched DNA........ But, of course, we will never see these "facts" provided by the "rah rah siss boom bah" crew.

The thing about Wikipedia is that the source material is referenced with footnotes and links. The wiki posted by the "expert" Didn't mention lacerations but the citation in the footnotes did and stated clearly that a laceration can appear like a cut.

So much for claims of expertise.....

The post above is an excellent example of circular logic. "switched DNA" presented as a fact, when there's no proof of that. "manipulated evidence" presented as a fact, again no evidence of that.

boomerangutang · March 26, 2015

Meanwhile, the two Burmese guys are stuck in prison. They will be in there a year by the time a verdict is decided by the judges, if they survive that long. No option of bail was given at any time, despite requests by Burmese authorities, who said they would also vouch for them going to court when required. If the two are not acquitted, it's almost certain there will be one or more appeals, all the while, the two will be in prison yet longer ....another year? ....two more years...? Their families rely on their sons' meager earnings to eke by. All during those same months, British experts are not allowed to do any investigating within Thailand's borders. As for the RTP, all appearances, are they're doing nothing to investigate anyone else (since the B2 were fingered) - not even those men who were prime suspects in the early stages of the so-called 'investigation.'

In the US, there are detectives who occasionally dig out an old file of an unsolved murder, and proceed to scrutinize it for clues. Sometimes those files are dusted off, and new evidence becomes evident, and people are tried and and convicted - who would otherwise have continued to get away with murder. It Thailand, such unorthodox thinking would be laughed at, or scolded, ....or worse.

AleG · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.
But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

The link I provided was when the list for the reshuffle was announced, it doesn't list all the names on the list. As JDinasia pointed out, October is the usual month for police reshuffles (as a previous example "Maj Gen Chote Chawanwiwat, will move to become commander of Phuket on October 1, as part of the annual reshuffle of senior police officers"), Panya Mamen was part of that reshuffle:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

The promotion was scheduled before the murders, it was part of a larger reshuffle announced before the murders, it had nothing to do with the murders.

"Factoid"... as in something that pretends to be a fact but it is not.

"RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene"

No, it is you who would want people to believe they were part of those 200 tested and cleared without providing any sort of evidence to that effect, you just want to believe it is so and that's enough for you, it's not enough for anyone that can look at your track record of believing things that are not true.

"But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at."

It doesn't matter how may times you repeat that fantasy, you were wrong, no matter how many ad-hoc justifications and accusations you throw around, wrong, end of story. Your insistance that "Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at", is false, completely, utterly false:

Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be re-questioned.

Thai PBS has reported that he said the ten suspects include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day.

Pol Lt-Gen Panya said that although these group of suspects were not held in custody after they were once questioned they are being closely watched by plainclothes policemen to prevent them from escaping.

That was five days after "the two men which evidence was pointing at" were cleared, facts don't back you up, that is why you have to resort to unfalsifiable fables like "It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok."

"Khaosod, 25 September 2014: ...police questioned Mr. Warot and established that he was not on the island when the murder took place, deputy police chief Pol.Gen. Ake Angsananond said yesterday. Therefore, he is no longer being treated as a potential suspect, Pol.Gen. Ake said."

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

This is not a cold case. This is a case in the trial phase.

I am unaware of any place where, after the prosecution takes a case, the police investigate other people.

You bring up the UK police again. Strangely you never addressed any of the points brought up about the vast number of people who would have to be directly involved in your conspiracy theory, or complicite in it for it to work.

The Thai government from the top down.

The UK government from the top down.

The FCO.

David and Hannah's friends and family

The Thai press

The UK press

The RTP

The HRC commissioner

The lawyer

The lab techs

The RTP from the top down

Every person on the island

Etc etc etc etc etc etc

You will find a longer list in the last few pages of this thread which still is not exhaustive

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.
But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

The link I provided was when the list for the reshuffle was announced, it doesn't list all the names on the list. As JDinasia pointed out, October is the usual month for police reshuffles (as a previous example "Maj Gen Chote Chawanwiwat, will move to become commander of Phuket on October 1, as part of the annual reshuffle of senior police officers"), Panya Mamen was part of that reshuffle:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

The promotion was scheduled before the murders, it was part of a larger reshuffle announced before the murders, it had nothing to do with the murders.

"Factoid"... as in something that pretends to be a fact but it is not.

"RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene"

No, it is you who would want people to believe they were part of those 200 tested and cleared without providing any sort of evidence to that effect, you just want to believe it is so and that's enough for you, it's not enough for anyone that can look at your track record of believing things that are not true.

"But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at."

It doesn't matter how may times you repeat that fantasy, you were wrong, no matter how many ad-hoc justifications and accusations you throw around, wrong, end of story. Your insistance that "Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at", is false, completely, utterly false:

Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be re-questioned.

Thai PBS has reported that he said the ten suspects include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day.

Pol Lt-Gen Panya said that although these group of suspects were not held in custody after they were once questioned they are being closely watched by plainclothes policemen to prevent them from escaping.

That was five days after "the two men which evidence was pointing at" were cleared, facts don't back you up, that is why you have to resort to unfalsifiable fables like "It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok."

"Khaosod, 25 September 2014: ...police questioned Mr. Warot and established that he was not on the island when the murder took place, deputy police chief Pol.Gen. Ake Angsananond said yesterday. Therefore, he is no longer being treated as a potential suspect, Pol.Gen. Ake said."

Point of order...

I think you meant to say "unverifiable fables"

rockingrobin · March 26, 2015

Aleg

With reference to the promotion, on what date was the promotion announced with his name actually stated

rockingrobin · March 26, 2015

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411649002

25th September

Pol.Gen. Somyot also blasted the media for reporting that a primary suspect was thought to be in Bangkok after fleeing the island in the wake of the murders. According to Pol.Gen. Somyot, the police never sought a suspect in Bangkok, despite earlier comments from Koh Tao police officers that clearly stated otherwise.

The suspect, Warot Tuwichian, 22, has been cleared of any connection to the murder, police say.

"I am not feeling pressured by the foreign media, but I am not being negligent neither," Pol.Gen. Somyot said. "I don't want to talk about [the investigation] to the press right now, lest my statements contradict with the officers in charge of the investigation."

Here we have Somyot contradicting himself

thailandchilli · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.
But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

The link I provided was when the list for the reshuffle was announced, it doesn't list all the names on the list. As JDinasia pointed out, October is the usual month for police reshuffles (as a previous example "Maj Gen Chote Chawanwiwat, will move to become commander of Phuket on October 1, as part of the annual reshuffle of senior police officers"), Panya Mamen was part of that reshuffle:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

The promotion was scheduled before the murders, it was part of a larger reshuffle announced before the murders, it had nothing to do with the murders.

Naa, your just making that up. You make a claim and then provide a link to an announced set of promotions that does not mention Panya Mamem and then deliberately state as fact that "Panya was part of that reshuffle", please back up that fact with a link otherwise its nothing but speculation that you are attempting to dress as fact.

Much like the other guy who says its in PhuketWan and Bangkok Post but fails to provide verification for this such as the date and title of the article which can then easily be located. He went on to then say its a moot point, really, its a point of credibility actually.

You chastise others for making claims without facts and then go ahead and do the same. Pot/Kettle

AleG · March 26, 2015

Aleg

With reference to the promotion, on what date was the promotion announced with his name actually stated

I have already provided references to Panya Mamen being promoted, as scheduled, in a general reshuffle; it was confirmed on September 30th, the process, obviously, started before that.

Now, why don't you ask Boomerangutang for references regarding his allegations that he was promoted/transferred to change the course of the investigation?

AleG · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:

BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.
But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

The link I provided was when the list for the reshuffle was announced, it doesn't list all the names on the list. As JDinasia pointed out, October is the usual month for police reshuffles (as a previous example "Maj Gen Chote Chawanwiwat, will move to become commander of Phuket on October 1, as part of the annual reshuffle of senior police officers"), Panya Mamen was part of that reshuffle:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

The promotion was scheduled before the murders, it was part of a larger reshuffle announced before the murders, it had nothing to do with the murders.

Naa, your just making that up. You make a claim and then provide a link to an announced set of promotions that does not mention Panya Mamem and then deliberately state as fact that "Panya was part of that reshuffle", please back up that fact with a link otherwise its nothing but speculation that you are attempting to dress as fact.

Much like the other guy who says its in PhuketWan and Bangkok Post but fails to provide verification for this such as the date and title of the article which can then easily be located. He went on to then say its a moot point, really, its a point of credibility actually.

You chastise others for making claims without facts and then go ahead and do the same. Pot/Kettle

What part of:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

you don't understand? The part that conflicts with the narrative you want to peddle?

Do you want people to believe that "a slew of changes at the top (police) provincial and regional levels" were concocted as a last minute smokescreen to hide the transfer of Panya for reasons that have proven to be false already?

berybert · March 26, 2015

And strangely enough not 1 comment on Nomsod admitting he wasn't at school the day after the murder !

I wonder why.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

The full list was published in the Royal Gazette, September 18th 2014.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

And strangely enough not 1 comment on Nomsod admitting he wasn't at school the day after the murder !

I wonder why.

Because that's not true. He stopped attending class after he was publicly accused. Interpretation of the quote you used in English is not clear. It is clear in the Thai Rath article from the same day

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

The promotion was part of this reshuffle:
BANGKOK, 12 September 2014 (NNT) – Approval has been granted by the Royal Thai Police Board for the appointment of a number of police officials to their new positions.

There are several names in that promotion announcement, Panya's is not one of them. It's a diversion by RTP shielders. However, the biggest diversion, thus far, is the framing of the B2, because it diverts attention away from where it should be focused: on the people who were prime suspects, and should still be.
But back to the little diversion: Panya was leading the investigation. Every day he was under pressure to indict - particularly someone non-Thai. Each day (before the B3 were taken to the 'safe house') one or more newspaper articles came forth which lamented the bad effects the case was having on tourism revenue. Even the PM was publicly commenting about the case. It's no stretch that Panya's superiors were not only putting pressure on him, but also manipulating events from Thailand's power center: Bangkok. Panya kept focusing on the two men which evidence was pointing at. It didn't help Panya's shaky situation when the taxi driver came forth with the story of being offered hundreds of thousands of baht to give false testimony. Panya got pulled off the job, and put in a cushy desk job in Bangkok (and probably told to smile and keep quiet, which he has). All his team's efforts toward scrutinizing evidence (particularly the CCTV videos) was chucked in the wastecan.

The leaders in Bkk have made at least three snubs in this case:

>>> snubbed Brit investigators by forbidding them from investigating.

>>> snubbed Burmese officials by not enabling them to post bail.

>>> snubbed Panya, by pulling him off the job when the investigation was just getting started.

Perhaps it's time to change Bangkok's moniker from 'City of Angels' to 'City of Snubs.'

Another factoid to muse: "So far more than 200 DNA samples (of Burmese migrants) were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23...." source

".....more than 200" according to the newspaper article, ....and RTP apologists will have you believe that none of those 200 Burmese migrants tested were any of the three who were at the beach party near the crime scene. Neither were the B3 part of the nine Burmese migrants tested (and cleared) prior to the 200+. It beggars belief.

The link I provided was when the list for the reshuffle was announced, it doesn't list all the names on the list. As JDinasia pointed out, October is the usual month for police reshuffles (as a previous example "Maj Gen Chote Chawanwiwat, will move to become commander of Phuket on October 1, as part of the annual reshuffle of senior police officers"), Panya Mamen was part of that reshuffle:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

The promotion was scheduled before the murders, it was part of a larger reshuffle announced before the murders, it had nothing to do with the murders.

Naa, your just making that up. You make a claim and then provide a link to an announced set of promotions that does not mention Panya Mamem and then deliberately state as fact that "Panya was part of that reshuffle", please back up that fact with a link otherwise its nothing but speculation that you are attempting to dress as fact.

Much like the other guy who says its in PhuketWan and Bangkok Post but fails to provide verification for this such as the date and title of the article which can then easily be located. He went on to then say its a moot point, really, its a point of credibility actually.

You chastise others for making claims without facts and then go ahead and do the same. Pot/Kettle

What part of:

"Gen Patchara's appointment is one of a slew of changes taking place at top provincial and regional levels at midnight tonight (September 30).

Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commissioner of Police Region 8, is promoted to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok."

you don't understand? The part that conflicts with the narrative you want to peddle?

Do you want people to believe that "a slew of changes at the top (police) provincial and regional levels" were concocted as a last minute smokescreen to hide the transfer of Panya for reasons that have proven to be false already?

The military reshuffle and police reshuffle due to mandatory retirement always happen then. October 1st is the beginning of the fiscal year.

(historical note 2010 - elections were (imho) not offered before October to prevent meddling in choosing the head of the RTA) see the Asiancorrespondent article about the pending reshuffle from July 21st 2010. Anupong was 60 and retiring and Prayuth was up for the top position.

rockingrobin · March 26, 2015

Aleg

With reference to the promotion, on what date was the promotion announced with his name actually stated

I have already provided references to Panya Mamen being promoted, as scheduled, in a general reshuffle; it was confirmed on September 30th, the process, obviously, started before that.

Now, why don't you ask Boomerangutang for references regarding his allegations that he was promoted/transferred to change the course of the investigation?

I fail to agree , all you have done is provide a link to state that a promotion as taken place at the same time as other promotions,

and then used a flawed logic to arrive at a conclusion that it must have been planned earlier, because the other promotions have been announced earlier

berybert · March 26, 2015

And strangely enough not 1 comment on Nomsod admitting he wasn't at school the day after the murder !

I wonder why.

Because that's not true. He stopped attending class after he was publicly accused. Interpretation of the quote you used in English is not clear. It is clear in the Thai Rath article from the same day

So the girl who said he wasn't seen for a week after the murder, and when he did come back to school he had some scratches on his body ?

What is she, someone people made up, a conspiracy theorist or other. Maybe its time you stopped twisting the truth.

He wasn't at school full stop for a week as I rightly remembered at the time. And as I said to you a few days ago just because most Thai people will accept being lied to, I wont. So you can lie away as much as you would to a Thai, but don't expect me to start believing you anytime soon.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

And strangely enough not 1 comment on Nomsod admitting he wasn't at school the day after the murder !

I wonder why.

Because that's not true. He stopped attending class after he was publicly accused. Interpretation of the quote you used in English is not clear. It is clear in the Thai Rath article from the same day

So the girl who said he wasn't seen for a week after the murder, and when he did come back to school he had some scratches on his body ?
What is she, someone people made up, a conspiracy theorist or other. Maybe its time you stopped twisting the truth.

He wasn't at school full stop for a week as I rightly remembered at the time. And as I said to you a few days ago just because most Thai people will accept being lied to, I wont. So you can lie away as much as you would to a Thai, but don't expect me to start believing you anytime soon.

You mean the anonymous "girl" from csila? Rumor mongering. Yes she is made up out of whole cloth.

BTW - I don't lie. I also don't care if you believe me. Citing rumors from csila doesn't add credibility to your claims.

berybert · March 26, 2015

And strangely enough not 1 comment on Nomsod admitting he wasn't at school the day after the murder !

I wonder why.

Because that's not true. He stopped attending class after he was publicly accused. Interpretation of the quote you used in English is not clear. It is clear in the Thai Rath article from the same day

So the girl who said he wasn't seen for a week after the murder, and when he did come back to school he had some scratches on his body ?
What is she, someone people made up, a conspiracy theorist or other. Maybe its time you stopped twisting the truth.

He wasn't at school full stop for a week as I rightly remembered at the time. And as I said to you a few days ago just because most Thai people will accept being lied to, I wont. So you can lie away as much as you would to a Thai, but don't expect me to start believing you anytime soon.

You mean the anonymous "girl" from csila? Rumor mongering. Yes she is made up out of whole cloth.
BTW - I don't lie. I also don't care if you believe me. Citing rumors from csila doesn't add credibility to your claims.

So the guy disappeared for a week and the police couldn't contact him. Yet all they had to do was go to his classroom.

Damn why didn't they think of that. You would imagine with the cop in charge who had the kid down as the number one suspect would have thought of that !

And that was the bell end who got promoted.

Do you now start to see just how dumb your version of the story about when he was in school sits ? Or are you happy to think the police are really as dumb as .

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

Ahhhhh "disappeared".... When did he become a suspect? When did the social media firestorm start? When did he present himself (alongside his lawyer)?

Like the csila "girl" your whole basis is fabricated. Care to bring up the furniture again and why that claim was never proven? How about the "she was shot in the head " argument?

berybert · March 26, 2015

Ahhhhh "disappeared".... When did he become a suspect? When did the social media firestorm start? When did he present himself (alongside his lawyer)?

Like the csila "girl" your whole basis is fabricated. Care to bring up the furniture again and why that claim was never proven? How about the "she was shot in the head " argument?

He became a suspect the day of the murders when he and his father were names as prime suspects by the policeman in charge of the case.

He presented himself along with his lawyer a week after the murder.

These are facts not taken from csila.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

Ahhhhh "disappeared".... When did he become a suspect? When did the social media firestorm start? When did he present himself (alongside his lawyer)?

Like the csila "girl" your whole basis is fabricated. Care to bring up the furniture again and why that claim was never proven? How about the "she was shot in the head " argument?

He became a suspect the day of the murders when he and his father were names as prime suspects by the policeman in charge of the case.
He presented himself along with his lawyer a week after the murder.

These are facts not taken from csila.

Incorrect on every count.

By the 17th the first suspects were cleared (3 Burmese) and the investigation shifts to Ware.

September 23rd, Mon is detained by the police and Nomsod is being sought.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/koh-tao-headman-offers-one-million-baht-cash-evidence-proves-family-implicated-tourist-murder

One million baht reward

Warot reports to the police with lawyer on September 30th

berybert · March 26, 2015

Ahhhhh "disappeared".... When did he become a suspect? When did the social media firestorm start? When did he present himself (alongside his lawyer)?

Like the csila "girl" your whole basis is fabricated. Care to bring up the furniture again and why that claim was never proven? How about the "she was shot in the head " argument?

He became a suspect the day of the murders when he and his father were names as prime suspects by the policeman in charge of the case.
He presented himself along with his lawyer a week after the murder.

These are facts not taken from csila.

Incorrect on every count.

By the 17th the first suspects were cleared (3 Burmese) and the investigation shifts to Ware.

September 23rd, Mon is detained by the police and Nomsod is being sought.

How strange, you are normally so keen to post links. But not this time.

On the morning of the murder the head cop said two suspects were being sort. Not long after we were told one had been questioned and the other had fled to Bangkok.

And you said you didn't lie.

jdinasia · March 26, 2015

Ahhhhh "disappeared".... When did he become a suspect? When did the social media firestorm start? When did he present himself (alongside his lawyer)?

Like the csila "girl" your whole basis is fabricated. Care to bring up the furniture again and why that claim was never proven? How about the "she was shot in the head " argument?

He became a suspect the day of the murders when he and his father were names as prime suspects by the policeman in charge of the case.
He presented himself along with his lawyer a week after the murder.

These are facts not taken from csila.

Incorrect on every count.
By the 17th the first suspects were cleared (3 Burmese) and the investigation shifts to Ware.

September 23rd, Mon is detained by the police and Nomsod is being sought.

How strange, you are normally so keen to post links. But not this time.
On the morning of the murder the head cop said two suspects were being sort. Not long after we were told one had been questioned and the other had fled to Bangkok.

And you said you didn't lie.

Mon was detained a week after the murders.

The Burmese were first, Ware second

Sean and Mon and Warot about the same time (3rd/4th) a week after the murders. Warot and lawyer present exculpatory evidence on the 30th of September. 2 full weeks after the murders. Your timeline is totally wrong

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-muder-burmese-migrants-cleared-after-dna-tests-burma-myanmar/44236

Initial suspects cleared

BTW I don't lie.

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