Unbelievable Insult in LOS

[laolover88]

I have lived in Thailand for best part of 20 years.

Today I went with my friend and his wife and my wife to the police station to help file a complaint against the youth who knocked him off his bike. I am old, well dressed and speak fluent Thai.

The officer in the station who took the complaint was casually dressed in an old T Shirt!!

After 2 hours the officer presented my friend with a print out to sign. He said :No..I will get what you have written translated into English and then I will sign.

Next policeman produces fingerprint equipment. "Now you have to provide prints" My friend, naturally says he will not as he is not accused of doing anything. Then policeman says to me: You too. New Thai law. We ring the lawyer. She says: Yes: If you are guilty of a crime they need your prints...Friend says: Nobody guilty of anything. Just come to police station to file a complaint. Police and lawyer: If you do not provide prints you have to stay in jail in police station!!! So we give them prints to get away!!. Prints are illegible and put on pieces of paper that have no ID nor police stamp.

My friend is a well respected retired doctor. Says: I have never been so insulted in all my 70 years of life. Me too!

Maybe it really is time to leave!!?

Oh forgot to say: Doctor: Have you got some wipes/soap so I can clean my hands? Policeman: You can go home and clean them!!

Edited March 4, 2015 by laolover88

[krisb]

Sounds strange but your both not guilty of anything so not to worry.

[Jessi]

There are a lot of strange thing going on in this Country, What has happened to Thailand?

[Pomthai]

Where about in Thailand did this happen?

[gerry123]

sorry not unbelievable if your report is accurate by the way i am not not saying its inaccurate

[evadgib]

Who's son was riding the bike?

(Btw I'm calling troll!)

[Briggsy]

It sounds like the policeman was being an <deleted>. He is used to telling people what to do and threatening them if they don't do it. That is a policeman's job with varying degrees of accountability in different countries. Upcountry Thailand - very little accountability.

Solution : You need to bring somebody along who the policeman respects and fears. This is easier said than done if you don't know anybody.

[mesquite]

Sounds like another day in the Land of Smiles.

[khunpa]

I dont know what has become of this country, but for sure this place is going to struggle for the next many years.

I have come here for the past 25 years and always loved it. But during the past years, it has started to show its real face and attitude towards especially long-term foreigners here.

Thailand has simply lost it soul and previous good karma to corruption and personal greed. The next many years will be a very hard struggle, before people wake up and face the fact that they can not be arrogant, racists, narrowminded and independent of the outside world.

Edited March 4, 2015 by khunpa

[Briggsy]

Khunpa,

Could it be a lifting of the veil coupled with a far higher number of long-term foreigners has revealed what was there all along? Local police are now much more likely to be interacting with Westerners and interacting directly with Westerners rather than through Thai intermediaries such as employers, etc than 30 years ago.

However, I take your point. Familiarity does breed contempt and the respect borne of the myth of the connected and influential farang has long since dissipated and local police know they can mete out the same treatment that they mete out to Thai villagers.

[Neeranam]

I dont know what has become of this country, but for sure this place is going to struggle for the next many years.

I have come here for the past 25 years and always loved it. But during the past years, it has started to show is real face and attitude towards especially long-term foreigners here.

Thailand has simply lost it soul and previous good karma to corruption and personal greed. The next many years will be a very hard struggle, before people wake up and face the real world.

I think the difference between now and 23 years ago is that there are more foreigners. Also, a different kind of foreigner, with the internet whoring and many retirees. Used to be that if you met a farang in Khon Kaen for example, he had an interesting story - was a bank robber, hippy who travelled here by land, Buddhist or whatever. Now it's more likely they'll be a retired doctor or civil servant. They prefer to hang out at expat bars and don't want to integrate with the locals. The OP thinks his friend is a well-respected retired doctor - well not here, where nearly all foreigners are "unplaceables" ie they can't be put on the Thai hierarchical system. Retired doctors, in my experience, generally have largely inflated egos which along with body language will put the junior policeman on edge.

Everyone here has their own little kingdom and maybe you and your buddy were disrespectful unconsciously.

I just can't imagine living here for "the best part of 20 years", however long that is, and not having any "poo yai" in the police force, government or army. This is essential to have for many reasons.

I find that speaking Thai gets a lot of respect with police. I went(reluctantly) with my wife to complain about a "possible" burglar. They didn't give a toss at first, just going through the formalities, when my wife dropped the name of a 'friend/colleague' of mine, who was a deputy commander in the force and ex head of Khon Kaen police. Suddenly, they changed their tune and we got regular police patrols at our house. We ended up paying them a small 'tip' but worth it.

This is the system here and most foreigners don't realize it and the junior policeman is used to farang marching in there demanding their civil rights, with an ex bargirl who's cousin is in the army. Well, we don't have any rights and under the Constitution being written now, will not have too as it is only for Thai citizens. Even some Thais have no rights if they are the equivalent of India's untouchables.

BTW, if you think they can put you in jail for not giving prints then you must have been living on cloud cuckoo land. I'd have told them to piss off.

[khunpa]

Khunpa,

Could it be a lifting of the veil coupled with a far higher number of long-term foreigners has revealed what was there all along? Local police are now much more likely to be interacting with Westerners and interacting directly with Westerners rather than through Thai intermediaries such as employers, etc than 30 years ago.

However, I take your point. Familiarity does breed contempt and the respect borne of the myth of the connected and influential farang has long since dissipated and local police know they can mete out the same treatment that they mete out to Thai villagers.

Agree. Things has of course changed as more and more long-term farangs have come to the country.

However, I see Thailand in the process of digging its own grave due to not only the constant ungoing and never-ending corruption, but the naive belief that foreigners will still come here, although you treat them badly.

Ofcourse, many Thais (especially the rich) will say that they do not need the foreigners here. But I am guessing that attitude will change once the economy and especielly realestate market colapses... which in my opinion, is just a matter of time. The problem is, that by then Thailand will have lost the last of its "Land of Smiles" reputation and foreigners will not bother to visit, live or invest anything in this country anymore.

Edited March 4, 2015 by khunpa

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed.

[Beetlejuice]

My son is a police officer in Chiang Mai and I can categorically tell the OP the police do not operate in this way, this is not following the correct procedures and I am calling BS on this one, unless there is a lot more involved than that the OP is letting on.

What is the name of the police officer concerned and at which police station?

[eldragon]

I dont know what has become of this country, but for sure this place is going to struggle for the next many years.

I have come here for the past 25 years and always loved it. But during the past years, it has started to show is real face and attitude towards especially long-term foreigners here.

Thailand has simply lost it soul and previous good karma to corruption and personal greed. The next many years will be a very hard struggle, before people wake up and face the real world.

Everyone here has their own little kingdom and maybe you and your buddy were disrespectful unconsciously.

Agreed. Once you start to question a Thai in a position of authority, things go south very quickly. I've found if you don't like what someone in that kind of situation is telling you, then you're better off walking away.

Regarding the rest of your post, I also agree. In fact, it seems like old foreigners here are rarely respected by locals and are better off staying in their bubbles.

[georgegeorgia]

If I was you OP...I would want to know why they wanted your fingerprints with you being the complainant and alleged victim.

Of course Police in mostly every Country will still check the background of the complainant/victim...but not going as far as taking your fingerprints !!

I really think you should ask to speak to the Officer in Charge or ask for the email to the Area Commander and either see a Lawyer or have a Thai write your complaint that will go to someone in charge of that District.

Tell them your fingerprints were taken and ask if this is the standard procedure for a complainant?

CAN I ask ..did the other party also lodge a complaint about your friend ?

Did both of them get their f8ngerpr8nts taken ?

Were there any charges laid as of yet ?

[maisodni]

In 2011, I applied for PR status in Thailand. As part of the application, you must submit a police clearnce report from your home country. I'm an American, so I had to get mine via an FBI Criminal Records Check. To do this, I had to download a fingerprint card off the Intenet, then get fingerprinted, and then send the card to an FBI center in West Virginia, USA.

So - I downloaded the card, and went to the Prakhanong Police Station, not far from the Onnut BTS Station. Although there is now a brand new station at that spot, in 2011 it was pretty decrepit. I went at about 11:20 am. I had never been there before, and it seeemed rather deserted. After walking down a hallway, and peeking into several rooms, I finally found a young lady officer in uniform. I speak Thai, but not well enough to discuss fingerprinting. But - when I showed her the card, she understood, took the card, and asked me to follow her - which I did - down a long hallway to a room at the end which turned out to be a dining area - with maybe six people leaning over bowls of noodle soup. She went over to one man in a green T-shirt, very dark complexion, muscular, short hair - looked like a Thai boxer, maybe late 30's - and held the fingerprint card to him, and gestured toward me.

This guy took the card, stood up, and made for the door, motioning for me to follow him - completely abandoning his lunch. I follwed him up two flights of stairs, and then way down to the far end of the building. He slowed down, and there was a chair next to a sort of countertop projecting from the wall - a fingerprinting station! The wall was shared with a washroom - and he pointed to me, and to the washeroom, and made handwashing gestures - so I went in - there was a squeeze bottle of soap - and I washed my hands, and dried them on paper towels that were there. He nodded for me to sit - he was sitting across from me, with a little cart - with a sort of equipment toolcase opened up on top of it. It was a top-quality fingerprinting kit, with all sorts of marble plattens, rollers, tubes of ink, and a big magnifying glass. I had already filled out the form at the top of the fingerprint card, in English, and he now folded the card twice, so that just one row of boxes was exposed. He used spring clips to clip this along one edge of the countertop. He next squirted some ink onto one marble plate, maybe 20 x 15 cm, and used a roller to squeeze the ink into a very thin layer. He then took one of my hands, isolated my thumb, and then rolled it from left to right - one time - and then directly to the correct box on the fingerprint card. He did all five fingers on that hand in about 75 seconds. He then had to adjust the fingerprint card to expose the second set of boxes - without smudging the ink from the first set.. I couldn't figure out his movements - but he knew exactly what he was doing. He then rerolled the ink, to make sure it was evenly distributed He then took the second "hand" of prints in about another 75 seconds. He then unclipped the fingerprint card, unfolded it, and took the magnifying glass, and examined each print. He was nodding to himself as he did this, and when finished, he motioned for me to go wash my hands again - which I did. It took some scrubbing - there was a small brush there - to get most of the ink off.

When I came back out, the fingerprint card was under a bright desk lamp, witt a fan blowing on it - to dry it. He was busy cleaning the marble plate and the roller - using some acetone, or similar. After a few minutes, he pulled out the fingerprint card, and sniffed at it (I guess the ink smells if it is still wet?). He put it back under the fan/light while he boxed everything back up in the carrying case, and put the case upon a wall shelf. He turned off the desk lamp, the fan, and the room light - grabbed the fingerprint card, and nodded for me to follow him. I followed back down two flights of stairs, and then down a hallway to a room with several uniformed officers in it. He had me stop at the open doorway - he went in and had one of them add the police station seal, and he then signed the card, and they used a blue ink stamp to stamp his signature block under his signature - all in Thai. The he came back to me and handed me the card, and then brushed past me - he was done.

At no point had he spoken a word to me. He never smiled. No one even asked me WHY I needed the fingerprints. He never wasted one motion. He was 100% efficient and professional. He was the Michaelangelo of fingerprining.

So - as he walked away, I said "khortoht khrap" - he turned around - and I had out a 500 baht note, and tried to hand it to him. He just crossed his hands "no, no" - and turned away and went off down the hallway - still in his green T-shirt. A lady in full unform was coming the other way as he passed her, and she saw that I was trying to do something, but the guy had not helped me - so she stopped to ask me what was wrong, and could she help me. I was a bit perplexed as to what to say or do - I told her that the guy had just helped me - very well - and had left his lunch to help me - and I wanted to buy him and his friends lunch - and I stuck the 500 baht note in her hand, and walked away, and out of the station. I think she stood there as I walked away, unsure what she was supposed to do.

The point being - if EVER there was an occasion for a policeman to take some money for helpful service rendred, above and beyond the call of duty - this was it - and yet I could not get him to take a "tip". He was solid professional - doing a superb job at what he was trained to do - he paid attention to detail and took pride in his work - and was totally disinterested in being paid money by a farang who walked into his station, and interrupted his lunch.

They aren't all bad.

MS

[inbangkok]

My son is a police officer in Chiang Mai and I can categorically tell the OP the police do not operate in this way, this is not following the correct procedures and I am calling BS on this one, unless there is a lot more involved than that the OP is letting on.

What is the name of the police officer concerned and at which police station?

Lol.... Yeah.... Cause Thai police are known for following procedure. Like making foreigners piss in a cup in public on the side of the road, take/demand bribes, work in gambling dens..... I mean... I can't even continue the list.... I will be here all day.

There are two possibilities here. The story is a lie, or it is a rogue cop. I don't know which and don't care.

But for you to actually state "procedure" in regards to Thai law enforcement is honestly the funniest thing I have heard all day.

[bkkgooner]

provide details of police station and get your story to the bangkok post and nation newspaper and it will be a story very quickly

[fey]

fingerprint is used for id when a complaint is made. i dont see the big deal.

sorry they did not have a napkin 4 you.

[givenall]

Where about in Thailand did this happen?

What is happening there are no accountability for Any official any more so they make up rules as they go

[Beetlejuice]

In 2011, I applied for PR status in Thailand. As part of the application, you must submit a police clearnce report from your home country. I'm an American, so I had to get mine via an FBI Criminal Records Check. To do this, I had to download a fingerprint card off the Intenet, then get fingerprinted, and then send the card to an FBI center in West Virginia, USA.

So - I downloaded the card, and went to the Prakhanong Police Station, not far from the Onnut BTS Station. Although there is now a brand new station at that spot, in 2011 it was pretty decrepit. I went at about 11:20 am. I had never been there before, and it seeemed rather deserted. After walking down a hallway, and peeking into several rooms, I finally found a young lady officer in uniform. I speak Thai, but not well enough to discuss fingerprinting. But - when I showed her the card, she understood, took the card, and asked me to follow her - which I did - down a long hallway to a room at the end which turned out to be a dining area - with maybe six people leaning over bowls of noodle soup. She went over to one man in a green T-shirt, very dark complexion, muscular, short hair - looked like a Thai boxer, maybe late 30's - and held the fingerprint card to him, and gestured toward me.

This guy took the card, stood up, and made for the door, motioning for me to follow him - completely abandoning his lunch. I follwed him up two flights of stairs, and then way down to the far end of the building. He slowed down, and there was a chair next to a sort of countertop projecting from the wall - a fingerprinting station! The wall was shared with a washroom - and he pointed to me, and to the washeroom, and made handwashing gestures - so I went in - there was a squeeze bottle of soap - and I washed my hands, and dried them on paper towels that were there. He nodded for me to sit - he was sitting across from me, with a little cart - with a sort of equipment toolcase opened up on top of it. It was a top-quality fingerprinting kit, with all sorts of marble plattens, rollers, tubes of ink, and a big magnifying glass. I had already filled out the form at the top of the fingerprint card, in English, and he now folded the card twice, so that just one row of boxes was exposed. He used spring clips to clip this along one edge of the countertop. He next squirted some ink onto one marble plate, maybe 20 x 15 cm, and used a roller to squeeze the ink into a very thin layer. He then took one of my hands, isolated my thumb, and then rolled it from left to right - one time - and then directly to the correct box on the fingerprint card. He did all five fingers on that hand in about 75 seconds. He then had to adjust the fingerprint card to expose the second set of boxes - without smudging the ink from the first set.. I couldn't figure out his movements - but he knew exactly what he was doing. He then rerolled the ink, to make sure it was evenly distributed He then took the second "hand" of prints in about another 75 seconds. He then unclipped the fingerprint card, unfolded it, and took the magnifying glass, and examined each print. He was nodding to himself as he did this, and when finished, he motioned for me to go wash my hands again - which I did. It took some scrubbing - there was a small brush there - to get most of the ink off.

When I came back out, the fingerprint card was under a bright desk lamp, witt a fan blowing on it - to dry it. He was busy cleaning the marble plate and the roller - using some acetone, or similar. After a few minutes, he pulled out the fingerprint card, and sniffed at it (I guess the ink smells if it is still wet?). He put it back under the fan/light while he boxed everything back up in the carrying case, and put the case upon a wall shelf. He turned off the desk lamp, the fan, and the room light - grabbed the fingerprint card, and nodded for me to follow him. I followed back down two flights of stairs, and then down a hallway to a room with several uniformed officers in it. He had me stop at the open doorway - he went in and had one of them add the police station seal, and he then signed the card, and they used a blue ink stamp to stamp his signature block under his signature - all in Thai. The he came back to me and handed me the card, and then brushed past me - he was done.

At no point had he spoken a word to me. He never smiled. No one even asked me WHY I needed the fingerprints. He never wasted one motion. He was 100% efficient and professional. He was the Michaelangelo of fingerprining.

So - as he walked away, I said "khortoht khrap" - he turned around - and I had out a 500 baht note, and tried to hand it to him. He just crossed his hands "no, no" - and turned away and went off down the hallway - still in his green T-shirt. A lady in full unform was coming the other way as he passed her, and she saw that I was trying to do something, but the guy had not helped me - so she stopped to ask me what was wrong, and could she help me. I was a bit perplexed as to what to say or do - I told her that the guy had just helped me - very well - and had left his lunch to help me - and I wanted to buy him and his friends lunch - and I stuck the 500 baht note in her hand, and walked away, and out of the station. I think she stood there as I walked away, unsure what she was supposed to do.

The point being - if EVER there was an occasion for a policeman to take some money for helpful service rendred, above and beyond the call of duty - this was it - and yet I could not get him to take a "tip". He was solid professional - doing a superb job at what he was trained to do - he paid attention to detail and took pride in his work - and was totally disinterested in being paid money by a farang who walked into his station, and interrupted his lunch.

They aren't all bad.

MS

I was reading through all this with anticipation and with bated breath, thinking; I wonder who dunit, was it the butler.

In all seriousness and as a genuine compliment; have you ever considered writing spy or crime novels?

[96tehtarp]

Where I live many people can't read or write, especially the old and demented or feeble minded. In their cases fingerprinting is the way to verify identity. It's nothing to worry about, although I understand the OP's frustration and humiliation.

[CharlieH]

A few off topic posts removed

[georgegeorgia]

In 2011, I applied for PR status in Thailand. As part of the application, you must submit a police clearnce report from your home country. I'm an American, so I had to get mine via an FBI Criminal Records Check. To do this, I had to download a fingerprint card off the Intenet, then get fingerprinted, and then send the card to an FBI center in West Virginia, USA.

So - I downloaded the card, and went to the Prakhanong Police Station, not far from the Onnut BTS Station. Although there is now a brand new station at that spot, in 2011 it was pretty decrepit. I went at about 11:20 am. I had never been there before, and it seeemed rather deserted. After walking down a hallway, and peeking into several rooms, I finally found a young lady officer in uniform. I speak Thai, but not well enough to discuss fingerprinting. But - when I showed her the card, she understood, took the card, and asked me to follow her - which I did - down a long hallway to a room at the end which turned out to be a dining area - with maybe six people leaning over bowls of noodle soup. She went over to one man in a green T-shirt, very dark complexion, muscular, short hair - looked like a Thai boxer, maybe late 30's - and held the fingerprint card to him, and gestured toward me.

This guy took the card, stood up, and made for the door, motioning for me to follow him - completely abandoning his lunch. I follwed him up two flights of stairs, and then way down to the far end of the building. He slowed down, and there was a chair next to a sort of countertop projecting from the wall - a fingerprinting station! The wall was shared with a washroom - and he pointed to me, and to the washeroom, and made handwashing gestures - so I went in - there was a squeeze bottle of soap - and I washed my hands, and dried them on paper towels that were there. He nodded for me to sit - he was sitting across from me, with a little cart - with a sort of equipment toolcase opened up on top of it. It was a top-quality fingerprinting kit, with all sorts of marble plattens, rollers, tubes of ink, and a big magnifying glass. I had already filled out the form at the top of the fingerprint card, in English, and he now folded the card twice, so that just one row of boxes was exposed. He used spring clips to clip this along one edge of the countertop. He next squirted some ink onto one marble plate, maybe 20 x 15 cm, and used a roller to squeeze the ink into a very thin layer. He then took one of my hands, isolated my thumb, and then rolled it from left to right - one time - and then directly to the correct box on the fingerprint card. He did all five fingers on that hand in about 75 seconds. He then had to adjust the fingerprint card to expose the second set of boxes - without smudging the ink from the first set.. I couldn't figure out his movements - but he knew exactly what he was doing. He then rerolled the ink, to make sure it was evenly distributed He then took the second "hand" of prints in about another 75 seconds. He then unclipped the fingerprint card, unfolded it, and took the magnifying glass, and examined each print. He was nodding to himself as he did this, and when finished, he motioned for me to go wash my hands again - which I did. It took some scrubbing - there was a small brush there - to get most of the ink off.

When I came back out, the fingerprint card was under a bright desk lamp, witt a fan blowing on it - to dry it. He was busy cleaning the marble plate and the roller - using some acetone, or similar. After a few minutes, he pulled out the fingerprint card, and sniffed at it (I guess the ink smells if it is still wet?). He put it back under the fan/light while he boxed everything back up in the carrying case, and put the case upon a wall shelf. He turned off the desk lamp, the fan, and the room light - grabbed the fingerprint card, and nodded for me to follow him. I followed back down two flights of stairs, and then down a hallway to a room with several uniformed officers in it. He had me stop at the open doorway - he went in and had one of them add the police station seal, and he then signed the card, and they used a blue ink stamp to stamp his signature block under his signature - all in Thai. The he came back to me and handed me the card, and then brushed past me - he was done.

At no point had he spoken a word to me. He never smiled. No one even asked me WHY I needed the fingerprints. He never wasted one motion. He was 100% efficient and professional. He was the Michaelangelo of fingerprining.

So - as he walked away, I said "khortoht khrap" - he turned around - and I had out a 500 baht note, and tried to hand it to him. He just crossed his hands "no, no" - and turned away and went off down the hallway - still in his green T-shirt. A lady in full unform was coming the other way as he passed her, and she saw that I was trying to do something, but the guy had not helped me - so she stopped to ask me what was wrong, and could she help me. I was a bit perplexed as to what to say or do - I told her that the guy had just helped me - very well - and had left his lunch to help me - and I wanted to buy him and his friends lunch - and I stuck the 500 baht note in her hand, and walked away, and out of the station. I think she stood there as I walked away, unsure what she was supposed to do.

The point being - if EVER there was an occasion for a policeman to take some money for helpful service rendred, above and beyond the call of duty - this was it - and yet I could not get him to take a "tip". He was solid professional - doing a superb job at what he was trained to do - he paid attention to detail and took pride in his work - and was totally disinterested in being paid money by a farang who walked into his station, and interrupted his lunch.

They aren't all bad.

MS

You silly old cow...she's bloody kept that 500 !

[Chonburiram]

In 2011...

I was reading through all this with anticipation and with bated breath, thinking; I wonder who dunit, was it the butler.

In all seriousness and as a genuine compliment; have you ever considered writing spy or crime novels?

Verbose, missing punch line, back to the drawing board...

[petermik]

I dont know what has become of this country, but for sure this place is going to struggle for the next many years.

I have come here for the past 25 years and always loved it. But during the past years, it has started to show is real face and attitude towards especially long-term foreigners here.

Thailand has simply lost it soul and previous good karma to corruption and personal greed. The next many years will be a very hard struggle, before people wake up and face the real world.

BTW, if you think they can put you in jail for not giving prints then you must have been living on cloud cuckoo land. I'd have told them to piss off.

Neeranam

I thought you were a gentleman......go forth and urinate would have been more appropriate

[FritsSikkink]

"No..I will get what you have written translated into English and then I will sign."

There were 2 Thai people with you who could read the paper and tell you what was written down, so no need for translation in English.

You can't be fluent inThai if you can't read it. It seems to me you started to be difficult and the policeman was returning the favor.

[MrWorldwide]

OP, why dont you just move to Laos and be done with it ? You started another thread asking about 'the lay of the land' in the PDR and it's pretty clear that you arent happy in Thailand, so why not give it a shot ? The last people I would place any faith in here are the police, yet you seem to have gone there on the expectation that you would get a result, only to be surprised by how poorly the two of you were treated. Time for a change of scenery.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/805243-laos/

[AZBill]

If you have lived there 20 years you should know they don't want you there. Why is this a surprise? They don't care how long you've lived there or how well you speak Thai. Don't understand why anyone would live there if you don't have to. I had to for 2 years of work, met my beautiful wife but otherwise couldn't wait to go home.