<<snip>>

And if police officer was occupying your land, you would be stupid to attack armed men with power to use his arms.

Looks like IDF provoked? as usual you right , morons threw rocks and burning tires, and IDF dared to respond.

Showing tremendous bravery to attack those more heavily armed knowing you will likely die. Very admirable.

All it would really seem to prove is the stone throwers simply aren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.

Which is why the stone throwers have lost time after time for the last 66 years and accomplished pretty much nothing to help their people.

Which is why the stone throwers have lost time after time for the last 66 years and accomplished pretty much nothing to help their people.

Must be so proud to beat stown throwers.

If Israel doesnt change its way it will keep having trouble.

Israel will not get a say about Palestine becoming a country. It will happen whether Israel likes it or not. Israel can either change its ways or be left behind.

The stone throwers started the violence in the first place when they way outnumbered the Jews and were much better armed. They are reaping what they have sewed themselves

When an occupying force is denying you the right to self determination, you can either resist whatever the odds or collaborate.

History is full of examples of injustices ended by brave resistance. This OP incident is no exception.

Palestinians have more than rocks to fight against live ammunition; today they have Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, and a whole panoply of international instant communication. Hence we are discussing this atrocity now on TVF.

Israel will ultimately be shamed into capitulation by world pressure.

Sorry but tired of the same boring nonsense.

They never had any self determination to start with nor have any planned for the near future

Showing tremendous bravery to attack those more heavily armed knowing you will likely die. Very admirable.

No, sorry, showing tremendous stupidity which is the norm for these people

When an occupying force is denying you the right to self determination, you can either resist whatever the odds or collaborate.

History is full of examples of injustices ended by brave resistance. This OP incident is no exception.

Palestinians have more than rocks to fight against live ammunition; today they have Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, and a whole panoply of international instant communication. Hence we are discussing this atrocity now on TVF.

Israel will ultimately be shamed into capitulation by world pressure.

Sorry but tired of the same boring nonsense.

They never had any self determination to start with nor have any planned for the near future

.. the Palestinians are slowly but surely reaching universally recognized statehood.The truth will out. Always does ultimately.

"As of 30 October 2014, 135 (69.9%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations have recognised the State of Palestine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

The IDF is shoving the proverbial uphill without a barrow if they hope to resist it.

The atrocity in the OP is another PR nail in the coffin for Israeli propaganda.

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

Its not something Israel should be proud of. But soon will change whether Israel likes it or not.

When an occupying force is denying you the right to self determination, you can either resist whatever the odds or collaborate.

History is full of examples of injustices ended by brave resistance. This OP incident is no exception.

Palestinians have more than rocks to fight against live ammunition; today they have Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, and a whole panoply of international instant communication. Hence we are discussing this atrocity now on TVF.

Israel will ultimately be shamed into capitulation by world pressure.

Sorry but tired of the same boring nonsense.

They never had any self determination to start with nor have any planned for the near future

.. the Palestinians are slowly but surely reaching universally recognized statehood.The truth will out. Always does ultimately.

"As of 30 October 2014, 135 (69.9%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations have recognised the State of Palestine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

The IDF is shoving the proverbial uphill without a barrow if they hope to resist it.

The atrocity in the OP is another PR nail in the coffin for Israeli propaganda.

Sorry truth about what?

Truth that they will always live off foreign aid? I am certain its already clear

Truth that they can not build anything and have no leadership? i am certain its already clear

Truth that they are not interested in living in peace? That is also very clear

Truth that they never existed as a nation? That is also a known fact.

As you so proudly proclaimed, 66 years, no economy, no army, no functioning government.

NO recognition from any of the arab brothers, ALL arab nations keep them in refuge camps, ALL arab brothers refuse to give them perm residency or citizenship.

SOME arab brothers known to slaughter them at one point in time, SOME arab brothers are slaughtering them now.

The sooner you realize the easier your life would be that Israel is actually the only one who extends any courtesy to them even if you think Israel's way is a wrong way.

over 2 million of them have Israeli citizenship, they do not get beheaded and do not get judged by sharia law or a law of the ruling mullah

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

Its not something Israel should be proud of. But soon will change whether Israel likes it or not.

Has little to do with Israel.

Look up what happened in 1948 and tell me again who is to blame?

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

Its not something Israel should be proud of. But soon will change whether Israel likes it or not.

Has little to do with Israel.

Look up what happened in 1948 and tell me again who is to blame?

Israel is to blame. If there was no Israel there would already be a Palestine.

But that is changing as more and more countries recognise a Palestinian state. Israel soon to left out in the cold and they will just have to wear it.

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

That's a strange twist of logic. To blame the victims rather than Israel who made them refugees in the first place, and won't allow them to return to their homes.

Perhaps the OP is another provocation by the IDF to create a pretext to conduct a 3rd wave of ethnic cleansing.

They wont succeed. The world is watching this time.

The Palestinians are there to stay and will one day cease being refugees when they become equal citizens of Israel.

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

Its not something Israel should be proud of. But soon will change whether Israel likes it or not.

Has little to do with Israel.

Look up what happened in 1948 and tell me again who is to blame?

I would love to debate the Israeli mythology of events in 1947-48 and earlier than that too, but I fear we would be Perhaps another thread another time.

I would suggest that you get back on topic.

By the way, most of the people being referred to are not refugees. They are displaced people.

Israel is to blame. If there was no Israel there would already be a Palestine.

But that is changing as more and more countries recognise a Palestinian state. Israel soon to left out in the cold and they will just have to wear it.

I am sorry but this is the most ridiculous argument i have ever heard.

If there was no Israel........... Classic

Sort of like, if there were no Arabs, world would be a safer place

Meanwhile the Palestinians despite all the injustices and repeated instances of the OP atrocity are still there after 66 years...and they are out breeding their occupiers.

The next serious elephant in the room question as the world's attention is grabbed by the present OP obscenity is ..what is Israel going to do about all this? And this time the whole world is watching.

More of the same OP?? As Winston Churchill? once said:

"It is a good thing to follow the First Law of Holes: if you are in one, stop digging."

Yes, and they managed to keep refuge status for the entire 66 years, which happens to be the only people who managed to keep refuge status for that long, at least thats something to be proud of.

That's a strange twist of logic. To blame the victims rather than Israel who made them refugees in the first place, and won't allow them to return to their homes.

Perhaps the OP is another provocation by the IDF to create a pretext to conduct a 3rd wave of ethnic cleansing.

They wont succeed. The world is watching this time.

The Palestinians are there to stay and will one day cease being refugees when they become equal citizens of Israel.

That is not logic that is a fact

http://arabisraeliconflict.info/arab-israel-facts/fact-9-palestinian-refugees

I would suggest that you get back on topic.

By the way, most of the people being referred to are not refugees. They are displaced people.

Official status still a refugee.

Not sure why, but just how it is

The Palestinians have long since become the largest and longest-standing refugee population in the world. To support them, the UNRWA has also grown to become the largest of all UN agencies. http://arabisraeliconflict.info/arab-israel-facts/fact-9-palestinian-refugees

I would love to debate the Israeli mythology of events in 1947-48 and earlier than that too, but I fear we would be Perhaps another thread another time.

You sure you would?

Palestinian Arabs had been deliberately targeting Jewish civilians for decades before Israel was even established, and half a century before the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. The first major attacks on civilians took place in 1920-21, when violent riots erupted in Jerusalem andJaffa. In 1929, at least 85 Jews were killed in massacres in Hebron and Safed, among other locations; in the early 1930s, the first Palestinian terror organization,Black Hand, began carrying out attacks against civilians; and during the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939, violence against civilians became widespread throughout Palestine.

Attacks by Arabs against Jewish civilians continued during the 1948 War, including an ambush on a medical convoy in which 79 Jews mostly doctors and nurses were killed, and massacres in Kfar Etzion and Haifa. During the 1950s and 60s, terrorists from neighboring Arab countries ("fedayeen") repeatedly infiltrated Israelto attack civilian targets, including a wedding, a synagogue, buses, trains, and civilian homes.

Israel is to blame. If there was no Israel there would already be a Palestine.

But that is changing as more and more countries recognise a Palestinian state. Israel soon to left out in the cold and they will just have to wear it.

I am sorry but this is the most ridiculous argument i have ever heard.

If there was no Israel........... Classic

Sort of like, if there were no Arabs, world would be a safer place

No not Arabs. But if there were no terrorists the world would be safer.

But yes, if no Israel there would be a Palestine. Israel, via their lackey the US is the only reason there isnt already a Palestine.

Israel is to blame. If there was no Israel there would already be a Palestine.

But that is changing as more and more countries recognise a Palestinian state. Israel soon to left out in the cold and they will just have to wear it.

I am sorry but this is the most ridiculous argument i have ever heard.

If there was no Israel........... Classic

Sort of like, if there were no Arabs, world would be a safer place

No not Arabs. But if there were no terrorists the world would be safer.

But yes, if no Israel there would be a Palestine. Israel, via their lackey the US is the only reason there isnt already a Palestine.

And terrorists are not Arabs? As i said, if there were no arabs world would be a safer place

Some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims

I would suggest that you get back on topic.

By the way, most of the people being referred to are not refugees. They are displaced people.

Official status still a refugee.

Not sure why, but just how it is

The Palestinians have long since become the largest and longest-standing refugee population in the world. To support them, the UNRWA has also grown to become the largest of all UN agencies. http://arabisraeliconflict.info/arab-israel-facts/fact-9-palestinian-refugees

Thanks for the clarification. I know some are refugees, but many in the area are displaced. But we are getting off topic.

Israel is to blame. If there was no Israel there would already be a Palestine.

But that is changing as more and more countries recognise a Palestinian state. Israel soon to left out in the cold and they will just have to wear it.

I am sorry but this is the most ridiculous argument i have ever heard.

If there was no Israel........... Classic

Sort of like, if there were no Arabs, world would be a safer place

No not Arabs. But if there were no terrorists the world would be safer.

But yes, if no Israel there would be a Palestine. Israel, via their lackey the US is the only reason there isnt already a Palestine.

And terrorists are not Arabs? As i said, if there were no arabs world would be a safer place

Some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims

you dont seem to realise that not all terrorists are Arabs.

So no it would not be a safer place without Arabs. It would be safer without terrorists, wherever they come from.

You could say the same thing hundreds of years ago, the world would be safer without christians. Or the world would be safer without communism, or safer without the US who do their fair share of killing lately.

Bottom line is that if it wasnt for Israel the Palestinians would not be in the dire situation they are in. But that is changing quickly and Israel can like it or lump it.

you dont seem to realise that not all terrorists are Arabs.

So no it would not be a safer place without Arabs. It would be safer without terrorists, wherever they come from.

You could say the same thing hundreds of years ago, the world would be safer without christians. Or the world would be safer without communism, or safer without the US who do their fair share of killing lately.

Bottom line is that if it wasnt for Israel the Palestinians would not be in the dire situation they are in. But that is changing quickly and Israel can like it or lump it.

You right, most are and if not physically are, usually support it anyway

I think the Palestinians are aggrieved simply because of Israels actions against them.

You mean because the Palestinians tried to wipe out the Jews who later became Israelis and stopped them by fighting backs and kicking their butts? That would be the Palestinian's own fault.

I would suggest that you get back on topic.

By the way, most of the people being referred to are not refugees. They are displaced people.

Official status still a refugee.

Not sure why, but just how it is

The Palestinians have long since become the largest and longest-standing refugee population in the world. To support them, the UNRWA has also grown to become the largest of all UN agencies. http://arabisraeliconflict.info/arab-israel-facts/fact-9-palestinian-refugees

I am unsure as well. They are technically displaced people, which is otherwise fine for this discussion because it has within it the ability to recognize either description. This post caught my eye because I vaguely recalled that from the beginning they were refereed to as displaced people. Having said that, I would trust Scott's post on this point, even above the conflicting UN docs.

(I also believe "refugee" status opens other doors).

Muslims throw christians over board.

Christian is a non muslim, how else would you like me to spell it out for you?

Palestinians attacking jews and its jews fault for being there.

Muslims killing christians and its christians fault.

Palestinians are NOT aggrieved with Jordan for killing hundreds of thousands?

They OK with Egypt closing the borders?

They do not mind being kept in the camps in Syria? Jordan and everywhere else?

But they aggrieved with Israel? ohhhh poor them

Actually, this simple post reveals a stunning truth that overwhelmingly suggests a double standard. Is the double standard Hamas and PA themselves; media; jointly? Its likely that everyone who stands in opposition to the State of Israel, from America to the liberals, to the Palestinians to the Arab states, to the UN and also NGOs, share a likely obvious awareness that they are all full of crap. It is like a drama that exists by virtue of everyone agreeing to lie. The single motivation for something like this can only be hate. Hate alone can account for this collective delusion.

Of course it is all fluff because the real aim isn't land or a State, though this is desired for sure. The real aim is desiring the Jew's land, and crushing them- every last one! That this is glossed over it remains the basic foundation of many problems in the middle east. Having said this it is abundantly clear that were all the jews to perish tomorrow they would just then turn further on each other and others. It is utterly false to presume that all people, societies, and collective intellect made it fairly safely to the modern age. It is just not true. The mindset of many of these populations (some jews included) remain savagely stuck in a very dark, narrow world of hate and mayhem.

Any analysis of history clearly reveals that this land was only ever desired when it was desired by others; this remains true today. Otherwise, this militarily significant but otherwise useless piece of land was of little use for muslims (or even Romans). Indeed, [they] actually had to invent BS even then to argue the merits of seizing Jerusalem. For a people who live constantly with the past this is instructive. When the prophet took his Night Journey he is said to have flown to the "furthest mosque" there was no mosque in Jerusalem at the time (This is actually key because the entire premise of the Temple Mount being the third most holy site in islam rests upon this patently obvious fallacy. Folks did not realize it then, and by now it has become de facto true- but it is not true). The furthest mosque was fairly local to the prophet. It was only (then) recently that the jews of Medina rejected the prophet's offer to change the direction of prayer to Jerusalem. The prophet would hardly have then stated he flew to the Jewish temple mount. Utterly preposterous. It was only a considerable time later when a claimant to the caliph from outside the tribal lands of the prophet.

I make no comment on justice or not, fairness or not, or even what should be done. I only note the entire premise is predicated on a lie. Also, any analysis of why there is a current morass in the middle east can never truly reach a valid conclusion unless motivations and indoctrination are considered- both jews and muslims. Under no circumstances... under no treaty (treaties can never last more than 10 years anyway in islam)... under no conditions will the local muslims ever countenance the existence of Israel in the midst. It is all a fairly tale to slowly attrit the jewish state and finally savage them. I have zero doubt. Indeed, they are consistently quite clear. One needs to discard an overwhelming amount of facts to conclude the local arabs will ever be partners in peace.