What would be the critical turning point for road deaths in LOS?

[redandyellow]

http://asiancorrespondent.com

80 lives a day are lost on Thai roadways, according to this recent article. So yesterday's total of 70 fatalities on day four of Songkran is "pretty good"

Keeping in mind that Thai Authorities do not use World Health Organization standards - they only count deaths that happen (Thai Authorities do not count road fatality victim deaths up to 30 days later, if they died in the hospital up to 30 days after the road collision, as per WHO standards around the rest of the world) at the scene of the collision.

So 80 is artificially low. So is it 90 - 100 deaths a day? Who knows?

And how many deaths per day would still be "acceptable" in LOS, before concrete measures for improvement were undertaken?

I say at least 200, ( because it's probably 100 right now, so it needs to double) and WHAT SAY you?

[redandyellow]

BTW The articles reads: 80 lives lost every day: Why are Thailand's roads so dangerous?

It ain't 80, it's more..

Would 100 a day be okay?

Answer: Of course, it already is.

200 deaths a day on Thai roadways may raise alarm bells, about a 50-50 chance red flags would fly?

[elliss]

No problem , statistics are irrelevant ,

Life is cheap in Land of smiles .

Edited April 13, 2015 by elliss

[NickJ]

If booze is the reason .....sue the estate....

[redandyellow]

If booze is the reason .....sue the estate....

But TIT, not the US of A

[wow64]

Its not the number its who is killed... If an officials kid or wife is killed then alarm bells.

Sent from my c64

[thailand49]

When they removed all the people in the government who has blocked the changes due to the never ending profit of their corruption. For start put a independent person or body to enforce all the current laws through the country! yes give him the marital law ability! Take money and put in a system that can track drivers history throughout the country. Then remove the current system of education and place in two things first... Driving is a privilege and not a right and require a actually live road test.

Last, Enforce and apply the Law, until drivers have something actually important to lose they will never change. There are a million things they can start with but I only sleep a few hours a night and then I wait up and the dream is over.

[USNret]

I'm old enough to remember when drunk drivers were literally treated as a joke in America -- They were something to laugh at, and deaths from drunk drivers was hardly discussed. It took a group of outraged moms to turn this around. That's how MADD was formed (Mother's Against Drunk Driving).

At first, they were mocked & humiliated, but they never gave up, and gave visibility to innocent victims of drunk driving. Only when they became a political force did politicians finally start paying attention, and little by little changes were made. It finally came down to judges taking this crime seriously and imposing serious sentences rather than the slap-on-the-wrist that was customary. In the end, it's not just laws that were changed, but the prevailing attitude in society. Drunk drivers were once laughed at; now they are nearly universally despised.

So there you have it... The govt will not act on its on. There's nothing in it for them. If the people speak loud enough to endanger career politicians, only then will anything concrete happen. The same pattern, more or less, was followed in America by changing attitudes of rape, seat belt use and smoking. I can only hope that rampant gun deaths will one day begin to outrage the American population and lead to reform.

Edited April 14, 2015 by USNret

[hugh2121]

And how many deaths per day would still be "acceptable" in LOS, before concrete measures for improvement were undertaken?

Answer: When there are no longer enough people and vehicles available to cart away the bodies and maybe not even then.

[dotpoom]

I remember reading an article about that. I understood it to say that Thai figures showed approx 40-50 deaths per day because, as you say, they were only counting the actual deaths on that day. If however, they waited another 30 days and took the count then of people who died since particular accidents...it amounted to 82 per day.

Of course I may have got it wrong.....wouldn't be my first time.

[ramrod45]

In a land where a squirt gun can lead to a 500,000 baht fine and imprisonment, but virtually no action taken if a person is killed, do you really need to even ask that question?

[NanLaew]

Its not the number its who is killed... If an officials kid or wife is killed then alarm bells.

Sent from my c64

I was thinking the same but maybe someone much higher up than just any official. But since anyone more elevated than a 2-bar puyai at the amphurs office qualifies for a high-speed, chauffeur-driven limo and police escorts, they will never experience how really badly educated drivers are and weak road traffic law enforcement is since most times, their speeding entourages flaunt the laws albeit with a police escort.

I'm old enough to remember when drunk drivers were literally treated as a joke in America -- They were something to laugh at, and deaths from drunk drivers was hardly discussed. It took a group of outraged moms to turn this around. That's how MADD was formed (Mother's Against Drunk Driving).

At first, they were mocked & humiliated, but they never gave up, and gave visibility to innocent victims of drunk driving. Only when they became a political force did politicians finally start paying attention, and little by little changes were made. It finally came down to judges taking this crime seriously and imposing serious sentences rather than the slap-on-the-wrist that was customary. In the end, it's not just laws that were changed, but the prevailing attitude in society. Drunk drivers were once laughed at; now they are nearly universally despised.

So there you have it... The govt will not act on its on. There's nothing in it for them. If the people speak loud enough to endanger career politicians, only then will anything concrete happen. The same pattern, more or less, was followed in America by changing attitudes of rape, seat belt use and smoking. I can only hope that rampant gun deaths will one day begin to outrage the American population and lead to reform.

All valid points but a similar DUI 'renaissance' won't happen in LOS since the junta will ensure that there are no 'career politicians' to endanger.

[Crazy chef 1]

as Stalin said: one human life is a tragedy...one million a statistic...

[CharlieH]

MOVED to Motoring

[Ming Mueng]

Confiscate 90% of the driver licenses and the cars of course.

[kingalfred]

Until there are REAL punishments, heavy fines and driving bans followed by possible custodial sentence, nothing will happen.When might that be? When hell freezes over!

[murphya33]

10,000 over songkran? That might get people thinking

[godden]

When the money starts to run out

[NoshowJones]

I'm old enough to remember when drunk drivers were literally treated as a joke in America -- They were something to laugh at, and deaths from drunk drivers was hardly discussed. It took a group of outraged moms to turn this around. That's how MADD was formed (Mother's Against Drunk Driving).

At first, they were mocked & humiliated, but they never gave up, and gave visibility to innocent victims of drunk driving. Only when they became a political force did politicians finally start paying attention, and little by little changes were made. It finally came down to judges taking this crime seriously and imposing serious sentences rather than the slap-on-the-wrist that was customary. In the end, it's not just laws that were changed, but the prevailing attitude in society. Drunk drivers were once laughed at; now they are nearly universally despised.

So there you have it... The govt will not act on its on. There's nothing in it for them. If the people speak loud enough to endanger career politicians, only then will anything concrete happen. The same pattern, more or less, was followed in America by changing attitudes of rape, seat belt use and smoking. I can only hope that rampant gun deaths will one day begin to outrage the American population and lead to reform.

Please excuse me for being just a little of topic, but I have to get this off my chest. Years ago, there was a group formed in the UK

similar to MADD. One of the founders said there should be random stopping and testing of drivers to catch the ones who were over the limit.

I have no quibble about this, but he then went on the say that it would give the police the chance to check for out of date road tax etc, the stupid idiot

could not understand that, if this happened, there would be drivers who were over the drink limit getting away while the police were busy checking for road tax etc.

This guy was probably one of the people who lost a family member due to a drunk driver, and yet he seems to think that money is as important as catching drunk drivers.

[connda]

What would be the critical turning point?

Adoption of Western-style enforcement of driving laws (putting cops in patrol cars who do nothing other than pull idiots over and issue tickets), sanctions that are actually a deterrent (example: going 160 on a road with an 80kph sign: driver to jail, car to impounded, massive fine, record infraction on permanent driving record, keep doing it and loose you license, and then your vehicle), review and rewrite existing laws to take in account dangerous driving (not yielding the right-of-way, not maintaining your lane, excessive speeding, passing on blind corners, driving the wrong way on one-way roads, driving without adequate training and licensing), and a judicial overhaul that forces judges to actually enforce laws instead of interpreting them based on bias (the mega-rich walk, farang are at fault by default, the poor without license or insurance walk, this has gotta change).

Summary: The turning point? Adopting the road enforcement policy of a 'Developed Country' instead of maintaining that of a "Banana Republic".

[kingalfred]

What would be the critical turning point?

Adoption of Western-style enforcement of driving laws (putting cops in patrol cars who do nothing other than pull idiots over and issue tickets), sanctions that are actually a deterrent (example: going 160 on a road with an 80kph sign: driver to jail, car to impounded, massive fine, record infraction on permanent driving record, keep doing it and loose you license, and then your vehicle), review and rewrite existing laws to take in account dangerous driving (not yielding the right-of-way, not maintaining your lane, excessive speeding, passing on blind corners, driving the wrong way on one-way roads, driving without adequate training and licensing), and a judicial overhaul that forces judges to actually enforce laws instead of interpreting them based on bias (the mega-rich walk, farang are at fault by default, the poor without license or insurance walk, this has gotta change).

Summary: The turning point? Adopting the road enforcement policy of a 'Developed Country' instead of maintaining that of a "Banana Republic".

Those of you who have lived and worked here long enough knows it will happen, "when hell freezes over!" Edited April 14, 2015 by kingalfred

[Enoon]

When people stop posting "why aren't things like they were back home?" questions.

[elgordo38]

And how many deaths per day would still be "acceptable" in LOS, before concrete measures for improvement were undertaken?

Answer: When there are no longer enough people and vehicles available to cart away the bodies and maybe not even then.

All I see on the streets is new vehicles. We should be OK in a couple years from now when the economy runs into trouble and people cannot make the payments. The banks will own them all.

[robertthebruce]

Best to ask a ''Thai'' person, as there mind set is completely different from ours.....

[elgordo38]

What would be the critical turning point?

Adoption of Western-style enforcement of driving laws (putting cops in patrol cars who do nothing other than pull idiots over and issue tickets), sanctions that are actually a deterrent (example: going 160 on a road with an 80kph sign: driver to jail, car to impounded, massive fine, record infraction on permanent driving record, keep doing it and loose you license, and then your vehicle), review and rewrite existing laws to take in account dangerous driving (not yielding the right-of-way, not maintaining your lane, excessive speeding, passing on blind corners, driving the wrong way on one-way roads, driving without adequate training and licensing), and a judicial overhaul that forces judges to actually enforce laws instead of interpreting them based on bias (the mega-rich walk, farang are at fault by default, the poor without license or insurance walk, this has gotta change).

Summary: The turning point? Adopting the road enforcement policy of a 'Developed Country' instead of maintaining that of a "Banana Republic".

Your just trying to impose your Western thinking on another culture(the standard answer here on TV sorry been on this site to long). Just because they grow bananas here does not make them a Banana Republic(Got to get more sleep sorry cannot Songkran is giving me nightmares)

[wabothai]

Simple answer: start law enforcement with attitude adjusted RTP.

[thailand49]

Here is food for thought?

The reason many of us comment about driving here is because we come and have visited other countries, we all have a idea as to what works and what does not. Living here for a number of years and prior holding for 40 years a commercial license to drive, teach and test for the Department of motor vehicles along with authorization to train Airline employees to tow Aircrafts and handle baggage equipment,I also attended dozens of training seminars by The Department of Transportation and obtain my motorbike license years ago from the California Highway patrol.

I have lived with Thais in a village community and my neighbor owns one of the largest driving schools in Pattaya. What I've found out is many Thais will never be able to travel abroad and see something else in their lifetime. The manner in which they drive is part of their culture, their father taught them and it is basically past down and that includes those responsible for training, enforcing. Have a conversation with them if you can they will basically tell you " what are you talking about " confront someone as to why they are driving so fast, etc.. and you are asking for a fight. When I first started living here I took my neighbor to the hospital she finally got enough nerve to ask me how I could merge into traffic so easy? She was confused as to why I made certain left and right turns?

It is not that Thais do not know how to drive.. they know no other way, see nothing else.. they already have majority of the laws in the west but that is only on paper, being on the road is a whole different ballgame here because those entrusted to enforce they themselves do not understand the proper way. Follow any government official, police, EMS, etc.. you will see them without helmets, driving exactly what is wrong with the whole system, because that is how they were taught, bad habits has been past down from generation to generation. They are taught this why on a motorbike, they progress to cars, trucks, buses it goes on and on with no proper training and enforcement. And when they get caught they get a slap on the wrist especially if you are rich and if you are not their backward attitude legal system goes easy on them because they are poor. This is the main reason why it is so easy for them to get a license they consider driving a right not a privilege that is why you pay after you get your license.

In the West, you get your free book, pay to take your test, you get 3 chances pass you get a learning permit, put in your hours within six months and take your driving test and not just in circles. For a Commercial it is even tougher with a two year physical and random urine testing by your employer.In the West, you can be anywhere in your country, pull over you wait in the vehicle while they have computers to run a check on your vehicle and you. Enforcement is what keeps you in check whether you think you are losing some of your freedom. It keeps many of us safe. Here nothing that is effective to make a driver with reckless behavior to think twice nothing! So the result, day after day we beat each other up talking about Thailand drivers. What I do know is I've never visit any country that has day in day out so many visiting tourist killed on the road.

Edited April 14, 2015 by thailand49

[jiipii]

Source: The BP 19.4.-15

"In 2013, the World Health Organisation ranked Thailand among the world’s worst for per capita road deaths, with 38 from every 100,000 people per year. Last year, a survey by the University of Michigan put the rate even higher, at 44, which gave the country the world’s second-worst death rate behind Namibia and was more than twice the global average of 18."

38 peoples mean: 2.9 people die every hour.

44 peoples mean: 3.3 people die every hour.

Just wondering how many new Thais born every hour.