time to stop self describing as a flaung.... spelled the way they pronounce it

[Naam]

yesterday i told my wife "i am a flaung!" her answer was "where you with my knowledge and approval after the Vodka bottle again?"

[Loptr]

you can just hear it ' we dont mean anything by it,' 'we've always used it ' it comes from' . Well, for all your ignorant and dim witted arguements, people find it offensive, that should be enough for EVERYONE to respect and recognise.its time to start to stop using it., but no, self rightous ignorance rules. Well meaning ,derogitary , whatever term u put on it doesnt matter, its a term/word used to group a people by the color of their skin and its, therefore, racist.

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Why should Thais adjust their behavior because you are offended by it? You have some special visa that the rest of us don't know about?

[bannork]

Loptr, I think he is in the USA!

[Gecko123]

Loptr, I think he is in the USA!

If true, I feel like an idiot debating this issue with people who don't even live here.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Have you considered that it might not be their attitude to farangs in general, but just how they feel about you?[/quote

if you read the Op, it has nothing to do with me

[rijit]

There seems to be a reading comprehension situation gone awry here,

And who cares what some 75 year old has to say about it,

I wrote the OP after a 70 year old American friend from

New York used it to self describe, and he sounded retarded.

I too, asked my soapy princess if it was derogatory and she said no, unless the falang was acting a fool or was otherwise drawing attention to himself,

But it was the face she made when she said it to describe the fools

That was clearly derogatory.....

This question is only directed to the people who disagree or ambivalent about it,

"If you had a female child, of mixed Thai and w/e you are, and the kid had light skin blonde or reddish hair and blue eyes, would you want her teachers in school to single her out as the falang, so she felt like an outcast, and was abused forth with by her classmates, because the <deleted> of a teacher called her a falang, or would you want her called by her name, the one that you gave her?

And if she was so devalued by that name, making her different from all the rest, what further abuses might that possibly lead too?

I grew up with busing, in the new york 60's and I know that kids will not repeat their parents prejudice,

So why would you encourage it, because some old teacher gave you her definition, when we all know it is used as a form of separation and devaluation?

All you have done with this post is expose your own racial programming and bias derived thereof, to feel fear and guilt whenever someone uses a term which you have been programmed to interpret as racist... Just because you had a f##ked up upbringing in the US does not mean that every culture and every race on the planet is subjected to the same programming... You are not in US anymore...

Yet you continue to trot out your bias when the facts say otherwise... I give up, have a nice day...

so objecting to catorgorising a race by the color of its skin now is the result of a &lt;deleted&gt; up education and some sort of bias programing !!!! and there was me taking you seriousely

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[Suradit69]

I don't think a Thai person has ever addressed me directly as 'farang'.

No direct confrontation. Thais do not like that.

Confrontation??

You are a farang. Calling someone a Brit or Aussie or Kiwi or African American or whatever is not confrontation. When talking to a salesclerk or some other service person I may be called "Mister." Because of my age workers in my building and my friends and their children sometimes call me "pa," or "papa" but no one has said anything remotely like "hey farang."

Farang fear of loss of face is way overblown. Get a grip.

farang n. (Caucasian)

ชาวตะวันตก chaao-​dtà~​wan-​dtòk ; ฝรั่ง fà~​ràng  

classifiers: คน kon 

farang n. (Caucasian in Isaan dialect)

บักสีดา bàk-​sǐi-​daa  

classifiers: คน kon 

[MAJIC]

Once you are happy to be labelled by another,you are no longer an Individual!

[benalibina]

I don't think a Thai person has ever addressed me directly as 'farang'.

No direct confrontation. Thais do not like that.

Confrontation??

You are a farang. Calling someone a Brit or Aussie or Kiwi or African American or whatever is not confrontation. When talking to a salesclerk or some other service person I may be called "Mister." Because of my age workers in my building and my friends and their children sometimes call me "pa," or "papa" but no one has said anything remotely like "hey farang."

Farang fear of loss of face is way overblown. Get a grip.

farang n. (Caucasian)

ชาวตะวันตก chaao-​dtà~​wan-​dtòk ; ฝรั่ง fà~​ràng  

classifiers: คน kon 

farang n. (Caucasian in Isaan dialect)

บักสีดา bàk-​sǐi-​daa  

classifiers: คน kon 

Hey you....I like that one......icing on the cake....added by the word.....farang.....

[Lorn]

One of the most attractive aspects of Thai culture are its strong values of social inclusion, cohesion, and harmony. This is as opposed to the social exclusion, alienation and disharmony all too prevalent in the West. Thais are held in high esteem all over the world for their friendliness, approachability, warmth, welcomeness, playfulness, and easygoingness. Almost all visitors - from first time to long-term residents -- comment favorably on these qualities.

Those who take offense at a harmless descriptive word like 'farang,' and try and turn it into something ugly, exclusionary, xenophobic, or racist ignore this mountain of counter evidence that Thais value social inclusion and cohesion greatly. And those values don't just extend to other Thais either, as some would have you believe. I can't tell you how many times, for example, that Thais have said to me, "You're Thai already!" after they find out I've been here over 10 years and can speak the language.

Those who argue that we should be taking offense with the word 'farang', often seem to be the same ones arguing that returning a wai makes foreigners look stupid, or that efforts to understand and respect the culture are pointless. Anyone expressing appreciation or admiration for the culture is mocked as trying to be 'Thai-er than Thai' or a 'Thai apologist.' We've all heard it before. These arguments all share the same line of thinking: 'Thais need to change to accomodate me, not the other way around.' Put simply, embracing this type of thinking, which sadly is all too often encouraged on this forum, is a recipe for becoming a bitter and permanently maladjusted malcontent who ultimately misses out on much of what Thailand has to offer.

In my opinion, this is a completely contrived grievance which deserves absolutely no further consideration or discussion.

Oh yes. Everywhere in the world there are idiots who stereotype an entire country's people as being friendly, cold, independent, drunken idiots or whatever.

Absolute nonsense. In the vast majority of the world noone has any idea or cares what Thais are like.

If someone back home asked we what Thai people are like, expecting me to be able to describe an entry country of people in a sentence or two I would back away slowly, wave them goodbye and be glad to never speak to them again.

[Howitzer]

Meanwhile the OP whom i assume to be american calls japanese, chinese, thais, burmese, indians etc as all simply asian.

Yet just nameless faceless asians and in his own home country all asians that categorized as asian which doesn't mean anything to them at all because a burmese and a chinese are quite different from one another not to mention a chinese from one region of china to the next.

Yet the OP was really clueless and even annoyed when some asian guy ( japanese) announced hey i'm not just asian i'm japanese and i am different from the other asians like chinese and korean and the OP was even more annoyed because as you know chinese, japanese and koreans are all just simply asian and the smaller sub groups like thai, tibetians, mongolians well they can be simply called chinese too for simplicity's sake.

Yet the funny thing is the OP was very annoyed when he got called a flaung just a nameless faceless flaung from any western nation while in his own home country of the US while they did just group all flaungs as white people they were actually considerate enough to group them into special groups like scottish, irish, armenian etc but of course the japanese, chinese, mongolians, koreans etc were all just asian and it didn't matter.

[rijit]

no catergorising by region isnt offensive. catorgorising by skin colour is.

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[Gecko123]

One of the most attractive aspects of Thai culture are its strong values of social inclusion, cohesion, and harmony. This is as opposed to the social exclusion, alienation and disharmony all too prevalent in the West. Thais are held in high esteem all over the world for their friendliness, approachability, warmth, welcomeness, playfulness, and easygoingness. Almost all visitors - from first time to long-term residents -- comment favorably on these qualities.

Those who take offense at a harmless descriptive word like 'farang,' and try and turn it into something ugly, exclusionary, xenophobic, or racist ignore this mountain of counter evidence that Thais value social inclusion and cohesion greatly. And those values don't just extend to other Thais either, as some would have you believe. I can't tell you how many times, for example, that Thais have said to me, "You're Thai already!" after they find out I've been here over 10 years and can speak the language.

Those who argue that we should be taking offense with the word 'farang', often seem to be the same ones arguing that returning a wai makes foreigners look stupid, or that efforts to understand and respect the culture are pointless. Anyone expressing appreciation or admiration for the culture is mocked as trying to be 'Thai-er than Thai' or a 'Thai apologist.' We've all heard it before. These arguments all share the same line of thinking: 'Thais need to change to accomodate me, not the other way around.' Put simply, embracing this type of thinking, which sadly is all too often encouraged on this forum, is a recipe for becoming a bitter and permanently maladjusted malcontent who ultimately misses out on much of what Thailand has to offer.

In my opinion, this is a completely contrived grievance which deserves absolutely no further consideration or discussion.

Oh yes. Everywhere in the world there are idiots who stereotype an entire country's people as being friendly, cold, independent, drunken idiots or whatever.

Absolute nonsense. In the vast majority of the world noone has any idea or cares what Thais are like.

If someone back home asked we what Thai people are like, expecting me to be able to describe an entry country of people in a sentence or two I would back away slowly, wave them goodbye and be glad to never speak to them again.

I'm not stereotyping.

I'm expressing opinions and observations based on 30 years of visiting Thailand, 20 years of studying the language, and 12 years of living here.

[SoiBiker]

no catergorising by region isnt offensive. catorgorising by skin colour is.

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Categorising by skin colour is not offensive.

Treating one category differently or regarding them as inferior is, though. An important definition that many here seem to struggle with.

[Oceanbat]

no catergorising by region isnt offensive. catorgorising by skin colour is.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Categorising by skin colour is not offensive.

Treating one category differently or regarding them as inferior is, though. An important definition that many here seem to struggle with.

I don't think it's the word itself, but the use of the word.

OB

[SoiBiker]

no catergorising by region isnt offensive. catorgorising by skin colour is.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Categorising by skin colour is not offensive.

Treating one category differently or regarding them as inferior is, though. An important definition that many here seem to struggle with.

I don't think it's the word itself, but the use of the word.

OB

Quite.

"Those drinks are for the Farangs at that table over there" - ok.

"All Farangs are fat and stupid" - not ok.

[Oceanbat]

no catergorising by region isnt offensive. catorgorising by skin colour is.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Categorising by skin colour is not offensive.

Treating one category differently or regarding them as inferior is, though. An important definition that many here seem to struggle with.

I don't think it's the word itself, but the use of the word.

OB

Quite.

"Those drinks are for the Farangs at that table over there" - ok.

"All Farangs are fat and stupid" - not ok.

I sometimes wonder if it's the tone. I worked a long time in HK and gwailo never bothered me even though it's essentially the same meaning (if not worse). If one of the guys on my desk called me falang in my presence I'd probably inflict some pain at the end of the year.

OB

[tifino]

it's not just the farang/flaung or variants - but I'm even starting to use words such as appen, pineappen etc too mutt

A thai-english-thai transliteration dictionary has been quite useful of late, to help display a visual breakdown of why things spoken by Thais come out as they do...

(this is the transliteration dictionary version that a native Thai would use, not the one we engrish-spoken would normally use)

[Berkshire]

Once you are happy to be labelled by another,you are no longer an Individual!

Hmmmm....is it ok to be labelled a Brit? Or an American? Or a Democrat? Or a devout Christian? I can go on and on, but your logic is not sound.

[StreetCowboy]

I agree.

But remember, the apologists NEED to believe it's a term of affection.

PS

I refuse to sit with anyone (Thai or foreigner) who uses it.

Until they've had someone call them up on it, and move to another table, they'll carry on.

you won't sit with me? that breaks my heart

Thank heaven for small mercies

[StreetCowboy]

Once you are happy to be labelled by another,you are no longer an Individual!

Hmmmm....is it ok to be labelled a Brit? Or an American? Or a Democrat? Or a devout Christian? I can go on and on, but your logic is not sound.

I'd hate to need individually labelled by everyone I crossed paths with.

[SoiBiker]

I agree.

But remember, the apologists NEED to believe it's a term of affection.

PS

I refuse to sit with anyone (Thai or foreigner) who uses it.

Until they've had someone call them up on it, and move to another table, they'll carry on.

you won't sit with me? that breaks my heart

Thank heaven for small mercies

Weird though that he's happy to post in a forum called the 'Farang Pub'.

[benalibina]

Personally, I have never ever met foreigners who referred to themselves as the f...word in a conversation.

There is one post I read, on here I thought, of a member who refers to an other member as being.....my farang brother.

Amazing Thailand......

[kurtramsbottom]

I had an English guy call me a farang on Sunday morning ,we where at a Thai songkran festival in Runcorn ,UK ,he was dressed in Traditional Thai dress & playing the bongo drums as the ladies danced ...I didn't know whether to laugh or punch him in the face.

[Jingthing]

Personally, I have never ever met foreigners who referred to themselves as the f...word in a conversation.

...

Interesting.

I hear that done frequently.

[benalibina]

Personally, I have never ever met foreigners who referred to themselves as the f...word in a conversation.

...

Interesting.

I hear that done frequently.

Well....have holidayed and lived in Phuket and in province in Cental North Thailand and honestly I never heard it in conversations with foreigners. Maybe only in the way off....ahh we only farangs here. But adressing each others as....farang...like in the sad example as I stated above....never ever. It maybe has to with those people not being influenced by fora like this one. If I would have read, or been a member, from the early 2000's of this forum I would have been gumbsmacked, still am now, by the way foreigners use the word farang so freely. Not my cup of tea.

[Fab5BKK]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Fab5BKK

[Gecko123]

Personally, I have never ever met foreigners who referred to themselves as the f...word in a conversation.

There is one post I read, on here I thought, of a member who refers to an other member as being.....my farang brother.

Amazing Thailand......

Think of it as systematic desensitization therapy, benalibina.

You want to gnash your teeth, get your blood pressure up, wring your hands...mumble to yourself...everytime you hear the word 'farang,' … knock yourself out.

Not just an expat issue…an emotional intelligence issue too. God give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change… or something like that.

Call our anonymous farang hot line.

We're here to help.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Gecko123

[Gecko123]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

Hel-lo???!

Never heard of a Thai being offended by being called 'Asian.'

Talk about Thailand being part of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) is in the news everyday. Don't hear anyone getting upset about that either.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Gecko123

[benalibina]

Personally, I have never ever met foreigners who referred to themselves as the f...word in a conversation.

There is one post I read, on here I thought, of a member who refers to an other member as being.....my farang brother.

Amazing Thailand......

Think of it as systematic desensitization therapy, benalibina.

You want to gnash your teeth, get your blood pressure up, wring your hands...mumble to yourself...everytime you hear the word 'farang,' knock yourself out.

Not just an expat issuean emotional intelligence issue too. God give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change or something like that.

Call our anonymous farang hot line.

We're here to help.

1st of all....being dehuminized is enough already...not farang word related though....

I never liked the use of the farang word after I became a father.....it did not made my blood boil but just did never like the tone at the way it was meant....ahh you have money, you can pay more....farang. This just being 1 example. In all my years living there the word...foreigner has been adressed properly only once.....by a massage lady, no happy end..., she referred in a convo I had with her, in Thai language, to foreigners as....Khon tang chaat....only once, but it is thus there though.

Anyway....my opinion is only relevant for me and if many of you lot keep referring to yourselfs and foreigners as...farang....go ahead.....

Dont bother giving me the toll free number of the expats in despair helpline.....