Minimum wage 'not enough for daily expenses'

[Beng]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

Agreed. 90 % of all the thais I know, AND THAT IS QUITE A FEW, spend more than they can afford. Even the so called middle class people.

[Cake Monster]

Thai daily expenses

Buy breakfast from a stall for 4 people ( family ) = 120 Baht

Get a bag full of snacks from 7/11 for the day = 100 Baht

Buy lunch ( again at a stall ) for 1 = 40 Baht

Use iphone all day ( top up req,d ) = 100 Baht

Buy food for evening meal for 4 people ( again at a stall ) = 120 Baht

Total = 480 Baht, without the need to pay Rent, Electric, Water, or money for any means of transport.

The pattern here is to be lazy, and to allow other people to take all your money for being so.

Just deserts me thinks

[Mr Somtam]

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Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

Yeah, just ask your parents to lend you some money so you can go to university and become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer or start a business (note: sarcasm).

Seriously, do you have any idea at all what life is like for the poor?

You are right but

Why do all the people in this village have iPads and smartphones but have to borrow money EVERY month to pay for water and electricity? Or drive a NEW Vigo but their salary is less than the monthly installments? 300 baht would go a long way if they would spend it on basic needs instead of "show off" material...

[Don Mega]

Thai daily expenses

Buy breakfast from a stall for 4 people ( family ) = 120 Baht

Get a bag full of snacks from 7/11 for the day = 100 Baht

Buy lunch ( again at a stall ) for 1 = 40 Baht

Use iphone all day ( top up req,d ) = 100 Baht

Buy food for evening meal for 4 people ( again at a stall ) = 120 Baht

Total = 480 Baht, without the need to pay Rent, Electric, Water, or money for any means of transport.

The pattern here is to be lazy, and to allow other people to take all your money for being so.

Just deserts me thinks

Really, just desserts you say.... not everyone has the same circumstances as yourself.

I work here fulltime, for me to get to and from work that alone costs me Bt.690 per day for my car, Bt.340 for fuel per day and Bt120 per day for insurance/tyres/services on my car.

Food wise I average out Bt.500, expensive I guess but I do not eat Thai food,

[English_M_in_Bkk]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

Where to even start with this utter drivel. How about that there is no social support in this country.

How about in neo-liberal economies, wages are driven down, just look at the UK - with zero hour contracts etc. It doesn't matter if you 'acquire more knowledge' if there are no decent paying jobs around. Every economy needs semi-skilled labour, but why not give them a decent wage.

Basically, this is what they are saying, just pay us decent living wages - what is so wrong with that? Oh wait, if we pay decent living wages then some rich idiot can't buy another Merc. There is plenty of money in this country, it is just all at the top.

[trogers]

To those saying 'If you cant earn more than 300 baht a day, you cant afford a family', fine - in terms of the numbers I absolutely agree, but how does that work in a society where family is everything ? One thing for an old foreigner to live alone but I'm not sure that's a fate most Thais are willing to contemplate - always willing to hear otherwise from those who've been here longer. Arent your kids considered the 'aged pension' in Thailand ?

This last question has no assumed answer. Let those who have eyes, see. Let those who have ears, hear.

Is your kid raised by you able to support himself when he grows up? Would he be able to support his family?

Now, ask that final question about aged pension.

[trogers]

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Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

Yeah, just ask your parents to lend you some money so you can go to university and become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer or start a business (note: sarcasm).

Seriously, do you have any idea at all what life is like for the poor?

You are right but

Why do all the people in this village have iPads and smartphones but have to borrow money EVERY month to pay for water and electricity? Or drive a NEW Vigo but their salary is less than the monthly installments? 300 baht would go a long way if they would spend it on basic needs instead of "show off" material...

Borrowing is not the foolish act. It is the consumption, to buy that smartphone, or motorbike, or pickup truck.

If only they had borrowed to obtain that trade certificate or diploma.

[impulse]

In USA you can drive for uber and pull in $15-20 hour after expenses.

So you don't necessarily have to live on $3 do you?

If you own a car. But that can't happen on $3 a day.

So it's a self perpetuating cycle that's very tough to dig out of. Not impossible, but tough.

[charmonman]

So 300 baht/day for maybe 25 days per month (1 day off per week) makes 7500 baht/month. As others have mentioned, this is probably more than an 8 hour day, more like 12. Somehow there are people on this forum who think people can have spare cash and time left over from this to educate themselves so they can rise up the pay scale. Like to see them start from nothing and try it themselves, with no external help.

[charmonman]

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Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

Yeah, just ask your parents to lend you some money so you can go to university and become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer or start a business (note: sarcasm).

Seriously, do you have any idea at all what life is like for the poor?

You are right but

Why do all the people in this village have iPads and smartphones but have to borrow money EVERY month to pay for water and electricity? Or drive a NEW Vigo but their salary is less than the monthly installments? 300 baht would go a long way if they would spend it on basic needs instead of "show off" material...

Borrowing is not the foolish act. It is the consumption, to buy that smartphone, or motorbike, or pickup truck.

If only they had borrowed to obtain that trade certificate or diploma.

Problem is, even after they get the trade diploma they might not make much more than minimum wage anyway.

[Water Buffalo]

To be fair, I don't think 300 baht per day is enough either.

In a 5 day week, that's only 6k a month. Virtually nothing, even for a single person.

Even 10k is not enough for anyone to live here, in my opinion.

I think, it should be not less than double what it is now: 600 baht per day, working 5 days week - so that's 12k per month. Fair for minimum wage in Thailand's economy.

I mean, 600 a day is only 75 per hour (in an 8 hour working day). Would it be so hard to pay workers a minimum wage of 75 baht per hour? Really?

[impulse]

When wages rise there is an inevitable raise in the cost of merchandise due to the cost of producing the product.

A common fallacy. Inflation happens because there is more money available pursuing the same goods, not because the cost of labor going into the product increases.

(Edit: Company profits increase when the cost of labor is reduced, which is the core of a lot of the problems today, and not exclusive to Thailand)

Edited May 3, 2015 by impulse

[Thaddeus]

I mean, 600 a day is only 75 per hour (in an 8 hour working day). Would it be so hard to pay workers a minimum wage of 75 baht per hour? Really?

The ones that fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,

Probably not that hard.

Show me some.

[impulse]

I mean, 600 a day is only 75 per hour (in an 8 hour working day). Would it be so hard to pay workers a minimum wage of 75 baht per hour? Really?

The ones that fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,

Probably not that hard.

Show me some.

Come by my office any day of the week and I'll show you hard working, intelligent and dedicated Thais that have been with us for many years.

[wwest5829]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

"Are there no workhouses, are there no prisons". Have we not progressed in our thing since the days of Dickens?

[trogers]

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Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

Yeah, just ask your parents to lend you some money so you can go to university and become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer or start a business (note: sarcasm).

Seriously, do you have any idea at all what life is like for the poor?

You are right but

Why do all the people in this village have iPads and smartphones but have to borrow money EVERY month to pay for water and electricity? Or drive a NEW Vigo but their salary is less than the monthly installments? 300 baht would go a long way if they would spend it on basic needs instead of "show off" material...

Borrowing is not the foolish act. It is the consumption, to buy that smartphone, or motorbike, or pickup truck.

If only they had borrowed to obtain that trade certificate or diploma.

Problem is, even after they get the trade diploma they might not make much more than minimum wage anyway.

Not true. A tradesman earns two to three times the minimum wage, provided he works.

[robblok]

The whole point is that without extra productivity we get the same thing we got when foolish YL increased the minimum wage by 100%. The result is known to those who lived here at the time. All prices shot up and the people with minimum wage still could not cover their daily expenses. So just increasing the salary won't work, because everything will become more expensive right away.

The point about people having cars and bikes is a good one I have seen the same quite often here in Thailand. No money to drive the car but owning a car and getting killed by the monthly payments.

[impulse]

well if he is struggling on 15000 baht a month i cant see the 60 baht increase they are asking for will work

The $2 daily ($40-60 monthly) increase they are seeking isn't aimed at the guys making $500 a month. It's aimed at the folks making $200-300 per month.

I use USD rather than baht to put it into numbers I can relate to. I can't imagine making ends meet at $500 per month.

My prescriptions cost more than that. (Covered under insurance, which also costs more than that) But I guess a functional heart is considered a luxury to a lot of guys on the forum here.

Edited May 3, 2015 by impulse

[robblok]

well if he is struggling on 15000 baht a month i cant see the 60 baht increase they are asking for will work

The $2 daily ($40-60 monthly) increase they are seeking isn't aimed at the guys making $500 a month. It's aimed at the folks making $200-300 per month.

I use USD rather than baht to put it into numbers I can relate to. I can't imagine making ends meet at $500 per month.

My prescriptions cost more than that. (Covered under insurance, which also costs more than that) But I guess a functional heart is considered a luxury to a lot of guys on the forum here.

You have been here a while.. when the last time they increased the minimum wage with 100% it went up for everyone because those that were making more wanted more too. So in the end it all got more expensive and they did not win a thing.

No raise without more productivity its just not doable.

[impulse]

You have been here a while.. when the last time they increased the minimum wage with 100% it went up for everyone because those that were making more wanted more too. So in the end it all got more expensive and they did not win a thing.

No raise without more productivity its just not doable.

Foolish like a fox. Minimum wage was raised, placating the masses (Win).

But the real benefit accrued to the elite who could then raise their prices (and increase their profits) with impunity (Post #222). And since the cost of labor is only a small portion of the cost of a product, the elite saw massive increases in their profits (double win).

Of course, small business owners took it on the chin, but what country in the world has policies meant to benefit them?

Edited May 3, 2015 by impulse

[robblok]

You have been here a while.. when the last time they increased the minimum wage with 100% it went up for everyone because those that were making more wanted more too. So in the end it all got more expensive and they did not win a thing.

No raise without more productivity its just not doable.

Foolish like a fox. Minimum wage was raised, placating the masses (Win).

But the real benefit accrued to the elite who could then raise their prices (and increase their profits) with impunity (Post #222). And since the cost of labor is only a small portion of the cost of a product, the elite saw massive increases in their profits (double win).

The elite had nothing to do with it mate.

The lady selling eggs suddenly wanted more (she did not get a wage but when others got more she wanted more too). It went the same for everyone so prices went up. Only thing the elite did was raise the minimum wage all the other stuff was done by people.

Remember this was a 100% raise so labor is not a small part of it. The raise came from down to up.. It was not the elite making things more expensive. I guess you never had economics at school.

[trogers]

well if he is struggling on 15000 baht a month i cant see the 60 baht increase they are asking for will work

The $2 daily ($40-60 monthly) increase they are seeking isn't aimed at the guys making $500 a month. It's aimed at the folks making $200-300 per month.

I use USD rather than baht to put it into numbers I can relate to. I can't imagine making ends meet at $500 per month.

My prescriptions cost more than that. (Covered under insurance, which also costs more than that) But I guess a functional heart is considered a luxury to a lot of guys on the forum here.

That is why my sis bought a year's supply of prescription drugs here to bring back to Texas.

[losworld]

Been there done that it is hard yes so what I did was take on a second job and went to college part time for a few years My reward was after those few years was down to one job at three times I was making before. So living standard went up again and so did expenses So ended again a second job and saved every penny till enough to go on my own. Well back to one job but the hours it took to run it were long vacation Not a day for 20 years reward retired and well off now. It is about choices plain and simple.

Sorry but your points are not really valid here. How can Thais save when 50 percent or more of their take home pay is for food? It's a totally different ball game when you are above the food/shelter threshold and can put money away. No way they can do what you did when they make 20000 baht per month at most.

[impulse]

The elite had nothing to do with it mate.

The lady selling eggs suddenly wanted more (she did not get a wage but when others got more she wanted more too). It went the same for everyone so prices went up. Only thing the elite did was raise the minimum wage all the other stuff was done by people.

Remember this was a 100% raise so labor is not a small part of it. The raise came from down to up.. It was not the elite making things more expensive. I guess you never had economics at school.

Give you a hint...

The economics that they taught you in school... wasn't very valid then, and is even less valid today in the age of microsecond trading.

[impulse]

That is why my sis bought a year's supply of prescription drugs here to bring back to Texas.

As an aside, totally off topic.. I pay 3x the price for my imported drugs here than the Walmart website lists them in Texas. It's different for OTC and local made meds in local pharmacies, but that's not what the doctor prescribes and the hospital dispenses.

[trogers]

The elite had nothing to do with it mate.

The lady selling eggs suddenly wanted more (she did not get a wage but when others got more she wanted more too). It went the same for everyone so prices went up. Only thing the elite did was raise the minimum wage all the other stuff was done by people.

Remember this was a 100% raise so labor is not a small part of it. The raise came from down to up.. It was not the elite making things more expensive. I guess you never had economics at school.

Give you a hint...

The economics that they taught you in school... wasn't very valid then, and is even less valid today in the age of microsecond trading.

And should all sit at a desk doing microsecond trading, there would be no toilet paper supplied when needed.

[konying]

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Mr. Konying,

and bag of rice is not stealing?

Do you posses any common sense at all?

You should ask yourself if you do you posses a sort of common sense at all? My parents in law are rice farmers and they're not thieves.

Once the rice harvest is over, the majority pick chilies for others, if they don't have land to grow them. They earn 2- 3 baht for one kg.

Do you have an idea how long that takes to do that in the boiling sun?

Their life's really miserable. So the guy's really asking you a sincere question: "How much do you now about farming in Thailand?"

Were they or are they forced to be farmers?

What an insane question. They're both nearly 70 and just continued what their parents did.

Would you even have an idea about the quality of the schools in Isaan villages nowadays and consider how schools and life were more than 50

years ago, when they became farmers, then you wouldn't ask such a question.

Right , so once again its everyone else's fault.

SO seeing as their parents were poor they decided to follow the same path?

So when they were poor at 25 they did not think to do something else?

How about at 40?

But its everyone else's fault for their choices in life,

Speaking of insane alt=rolleyes.gif> alt=thumbsup.gif>

Do you even understand that there are many people in this world who don't HAVE choices in life? Jeez, are you Mitt Romney or something?

Yeah , the old " I have no choice" excuse for the lazy ones.

Hookers also claim to have no choice, only they must have latest smart phone, make hair in saloon on daily basis and go out drinking with friends.

Everybody has a choice . Yes becoming a doctor may not be a possibility for someone from poor family, but with hard work and persistence their kids have a chance of becoming one.

[impulse]

And should all sit at a desk doing microsecond trading, there would be no toilet paper supplied when needed.

True. But my point is that there is more money changing hands in a month of microsecond trading than in a year of nuts and bolts and eggs and oil changing hands in the real world.

Anyone who believes that the market price of eggs (or oil) is tied to the production cost of eggs (or oil), is ignoring current market realities.

The price of oil doesn't go up and down based on the production cost of that oil. The other market forces dwarf the labor cost in the effect on market price.

And that isn't what they taught me in economics 101.

(I use oil as an example, because the production cost of oil has certainly not gone down 50% in the last year or so. The market price has. It's a glaring, and current example of the disconnect between the cost of production and the price at the market level.)

Edited May 3, 2015 by impulse

[trogers]

And should all sit at a desk doing microsecond trading, there would be no toilet paper supplied when needed.

True. But my point is that there is more money changing hands in a month of microsecond trading than in a year of nuts and bolts and eggs and oil changing hands in the real world.

Anyone who believes that the market price of eggs (or oil) is tied to the production cost of eggs (or oil), is ignoring current market realities.

The price of oil doesn't go up and down based on the production cost of that oil. The other market forces dwarf the labor cost in the effect on market price.

And that isn't what they taught me in economics 101.

(I use oil as an example, because the production cost of oil has certainly not gone down 50% in the last year or so. The market price has. It's a glaring, and current example of the disconnect between the cost of production and the price at the market level.)

Only when there is minimal barrier to trade. Problem with Thailand is the numerous barriers raised on food and agricultural produce that can be imported. That is why cheese cost twice here.

[chrisinth]

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Been there done that it is hard yes so what I did was take on a second job and went to college part time for a few years My reward was after those few years was down to one job at three times I was making before. So living standard went up again and so did expenses So ended again a second job and saved every penny till enough to go on my own. Well back to one job but the hours it took to run it were long vacation Not a day for 20 years reward retired and well off now. It is about choices plain and simple.

And you are actually recommending others that they follow this miserable life (insofar as I understand this account)???

Nah...they should not strife to improve their own lives. Just sit and yell and protest for free handouts.

Perhaps it would be easier to get your point across trogers to advise on how, say a farm worker, can improve themselves.

Easiest way I suppose is to ignore the farm work and look for a job elsewhere. But to improve themselves, and not just move to another minimum wage job, in a country that is anally retentive about the requirement for degrees in even the lowest of positions where promotion is available, perhaps you could advise how a farm worker could achieve the necessary qualifications?

That would make your position and comments much clearer.

Edit: We often underestimate the education systems in our home countries, most specifically that everyone gets an education to some sort of level. IMHO, forget your home countries if you are going to comment on people 'improving' themselves. It is not reality in this country for the majority of minimum wage workers............

Edited May 3, 2015 by chrisinth