Vatican recognizes state of Palestine in new treaty

[Thorgal]

The idea of the "genocidal intention of Hamas" has long ago been discredited as out-of-date...

Nonsense. The Hamas Charter calls the destruction of Israel and the genocide of Jews and Hamas has never renounced it. Please quit posting false information.

The Hamas charter is alive and kicking – and Israeli civilians are dying

On Monday, we awoke to news that four worshipping Jews, one of them a British national, were murdered by Palestinian terrorists as they prayed in their Jerusalem synagogue. Hamas praised this atrocity, as it praises every terror attack in which the victim is an Israeli Jew. There should be absolutely no doubt: Hamas’s recent statements celebrating terror attacks are entirely consistent with its charter, which calls for the murder of Jews.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/20/hamas-charter-israeli-civilians-dying-ahmed-yousef

Hamas' targeting of Jewish civilians is part and parcel of its mission — as set out in its governing Covenant or Charter — to "fight the Jews and kill them" and to replace Israel with an Islamic state. According to the Charter, any type of peace negotiation and diplomatic end to the conflict "stand in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=56&x_miscitem=20

Always the same terror charter rhetoric from Hamas...

What about other sovereign democratic countries their national hymns with the same revolutionary language.

Nobody claims the hard sentences for real or to demonise the whole nation with its citizens...

http://www.cracked.com/article_16735_6-national-anthems-that-will-make-you-tremble-with-fear_p2.html

[Ulysses G.]

The idea of the "genocidal intention of Hamas" has long ago been discredited as out-of-date...

Nonsense. The Hamas Charter calls the destruction of Israel and the genocide of Jews and Hamas has never renounced it. Please quit posting false information.

The Hamas charter is alive and kicking and Israeli civilians are dying

On Monday, we awoke to news that four worshipping Jews, one of them a British national, were murdered by Palestinian terrorists as they prayed in their Jerusalem synagogue. Hamas praised this atrocity, as it praises every terror attack in which the victim is an Israeli Jew. There should be absolutely no doubt: Hamass recent statements celebrating terror attacks are entirely consistent with its charter, which calls for the murder of Jews.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/20/hamas-charter-israeli-civilians-dying-ahmed-yousef

Hamas' targeting of Jewish civilians is part and parcel of its mission as set out in its governing Covenant or Charter to "fight the Jews and kill them" and to replace Israel with an Islamic state. According to the Charter, any type of peace negotiation and diplomatic end to the conflict "stand in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=56&x_miscitem=20

Always the same terror charter rhetoric from Hamas...

Huh? Try to make sense for a change. What do songs - none of which call for genocide - have to do with a terrorist organization's Charter? They have nothing in common. The Hamas Charter outlines the movement's identity, stand, and aims. Hamas draws their ideas, ways of thinking and understanding from the Hamas Charter and this hateful document calls for Jihad, murder and genocide.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Linky]

Israel never states its intention.

Never says it has nuclear weapons but even blind freddy knows it has. It wont even allow inspections.

Israel never states it wants to wipe out the Palestinians but it continues to do so.

Israel never says it wants more land but continues to take anything it can whilst against UN resolutions and against the views of even the US, its greatest defender.

Israel just does not say anything, it just does things. Actions speak louder than words.

The world knows this, except for very few ostrichs.

[konying]

Israel never states its intention.

Never says it has nuclear weapons but even blind freddy knows it has. It wont even allow inspections.

Israel never states it wants to wipe out the Palestinians but it continues to do so.

Israel never says it wants more land but continues to take anything it can whilst against UN resolutions and against the views of even the US, its greatest defender.

Israel just does not say anything, it just does things. Actions speak louder than words.

The world knows this, except for very few ostrichs.

So in your fantasy world where logic is not required, Israel with all the nukes and super weapons wanting to wipe out Palestinians, has not done so because?

[Thorgal]

Israel never states its intention.

Never says it has nuclear weapons but even blind freddy knows it has. It wont even allow inspections.

Israel never states it wants to wipe out the Palestinians but it continues to do so.

Israel never says it wants more land but continues to take anything it can whilst against UN resolutions and against the views of even the US, its greatest defender.

Israel just does not say anything, it just does things. Actions speak louder than words.

The world knows this, except for very few ostrichs.

So in your fantasy world where logic is not required, Israel with all the nukes and super weapons wanting to wipe out Palestinians, has not done so because?

Would be an enormous historical mistake for Jewish people.

The region is only made for 1 country with 3 religions...

Edited May 16, 2015 by Thorgal

[konying]

Israel never states its intention.

Never says it has nuclear weapons but even blind freddy knows it has. It wont even allow inspections.

Israel never states it wants to wipe out the Palestinians but it continues to do so.

Israel never says it wants more land but continues to take anything it can whilst against UN resolutions and against the views of even the US, its greatest defender.

Israel just does not say anything, it just does things. Actions speak louder than words.

The world knows this, except for very few ostrichs.

So in your fantasy world where logic is not required, Israel with all the nukes and super weapons wanting to wipe out Palestinians, has not done so because?

Would be an enormous historical mistake for Jewish people.

The region is only made for 1 country with 3 religions...

Really? But according to your Israel bashing buddy this is what Israel is doing. Funny that huh?!

Let's put aside Jordan slaughtering more Palis in 11 days than Israel killed in 66 odd years during armed conflict.

I guess when there is nothing logical to post, just resort to nonsense .

Edited May 16, 2015 by konying

[Thorgal]

Israel never states its intention.

Never says it has nuclear weapons but even blind freddy knows it has. It wont even allow inspections.

Israel never states it wants to wipe out the Palestinians but it continues to do so.

Israel never says it wants more land but continues to take anything it can whilst against UN resolutions and against the views of even the US, its greatest defender.

Israel just does not say anything, it just does things. Actions speak louder than words.

The world knows this, except for very few ostrichs.

So in your fantasy world where logic is not required, Israel with all the nukes and super weapons wanting to wipe out Palestinians, has not done so because?

Would be an enormous historical mistake for Jewish people.

The region is only made for 1 country with 3 religions...

Really? But according to your Israel bashing buddy this is what Israel is doing. Funny that huh?!

Let's put aside Jordan slaughtering more Palis in 11 days than Israel killed in 66 odd years during armed conflict.

I guess when there is nothing logical to post, just resort to nonsense .

Israel knew economical difficulties in times of peace since the beginning.

It turned to welfare in times of war with its neighbours due to foreign payments and sponsorship and delivery of weapons.

Turning point in history was the 7th of January 1952...

Edited May 16, 2015 by Thorgal

[konying]

Israel knew economical difficulties in times of peace since the beginning.

It turned to welfare in times of war with its neighbours due to foreign payments and sponsorship and delivery of weapons.

Turning point in history was the 7th of January 1952...

Good try, let's try again , shall we.

Jordan murdered 20 000 in 11 days just for fun.

Go ahead , comment

Edited May 16, 2015 by konying

[Jay Sata]

I don't waste my time on threads like this anymore because they just descend into the usual old arguments dating back to the year dot.

The bottom line is Palestine will end up being recognised by the whole world and the issues regarding Israeli control over these people will not go away.

There is either a two state solution or assimilation.

[konying]

I don't waste my time on threads like this anymore because they just descend into the usual old arguments dating back to the year dot.

The bottom line is Palestine will end up being recognised by the whole world and the issues regarding Israeli control over these people will not go away.

There is either a two state solution or assimilation.

You can call a dog a pig , it does not make it a pig until it starts to behave like one.

Palis Have no economy , no functional government and have no interest in having any.

They will continue to leech off the rest of the world and continue to be used as pawns by the Arabs and Iran just to undermine Israel .

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional or does not have any understanding of the region

Edited May 16, 2015 by konying

[Jingthing]

I actually think Obama is talking sense here.

Sorry to those that hate Obama.

Though I'm not sure I share his long term optimism. While I agree a real two state solution is the only not-horrible answer to this mess, building the trust between the two sides to actually make that possible seems so far away in the future.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Obama-Deal-with-Palestinians-not-possible-in-coming-year-due-to-make-up-of-Netanyahu-govt-403244

“We worked very hard, but frankly, the politics inside of Israel and the politics among the Palestinians as well made it very difficult for each side to trust each other enough to make that leap.”

Obama said he has told Israel that it could not remain a state that is both democratic and Jewish if it continues to have the conflict unresolved and that he has told the Palestinians that they need to recognize Israel if they are to have a state.

On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the politics of fear has been stronger than the politics of hope, he said.

[Jay Sata]

I actually think Obama is talking sense here.

Sorry to those that hate Obama.

Though I'm not sure I share his long term optimism. While I agree a real two state solution is the only not-horrible answer to this mess, building the trust between the two sides to actually make that possible seems so far away in the future.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Obama-Deal-with-Palestinians-not-possible-in-coming-year-due-to-make-up-of-Netanyahu-govt-403244

We worked very hard, but frankly, the politics inside of Israel and the politics among the Palestinians as well made it very difficult for each side to trust each other enough to make that leap.

Obama said he has told Israel that it could not remain a state that is both democratic and Jewish if it continues to have the conflict unresolved and that he has told the Palestinians that they need to recognize Israel if they are to have a state.

On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the politics of fear has been stronger than the politics of hope, he said.

At last you are recognising sense.

What Is the option?

Exterminate the Palestinians or try and move elsewhere?

Diaspora will always create problems.

Or create a dialogue where both nations live in harmony

This will of course require Israel to reign in the fundamentalists who demand Jordan to the sea.

The same right wingers will have to withdraw from the occupied territories of the West Bank.

[Jay Sata]

I don't waste my time on threads like this anymore because they just descend into the usual old arguments dating back to the year dot.

The bottom line is Palestine will end up being recognised by the whole world and the issues regarding Israeli control over these people will not go away.

There is either a two state solution or assimilation.

You can call a dog a pig , it does not make it a pig until it starts to behave like one.

Palis Have no economy , no functional government and have no interest in having any.

They will continue to leech off the rest of the world and continue to be used as pawns by the Arabs and Iran just to undermine Israel .

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional or does not have any understanding of the region

I am not sure what you mean by leach of the rest of the world but Israel certainly leaches of the United States tax payer.

For an independant nuclear equiped power I would ask why take the US tax dollar while not signing up to the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty?

Of course the answer is Israel will never play the game in much the same way as North Korea.

As for a functional goverment and independence Palestine is just an area of the West Bank and Gaza controlled by Israeli military forces.

The majority of the countries represented in the United Nations want to resolve this issue by granting the same rights to an independant Palestine that were granted to the so called freedom terrorist Ben Gurion in 1948.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Jay Sata

[konying]

I don't waste my time on threads like this anymore because they just descend into the usual old arguments dating back to the year dot.

The bottom line is Palestine will end up being recognised by the whole world and the issues regarding Israeli control over these people will not go away.

There is either a two state solution or assimilation.

You can call a dog a pig , it does not make it a pig until it starts to behave like one.

Palis Have no economy , no functional government and have no interest in having any.

They will continue to leech off the rest of the world and continue to be used as pawns by the Arabs and Iran just to undermine Israel .

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional or does not have any understanding of the region

I am not sure what you mean by leach of the rest of the world but Israel certainly leaches of the United States tax payer.

For an independant nuclear equiped power I would ask why take the US tax dollar while not signing up to the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty?

Of course the answer is Israel will never play the game in much the same way as North Korea.

As for a functional goverment and independence Palestine is just an area of the West Bank and Gaza controlled by Israeli military forces.

The majority of the countries represented in the United Nations want to resolve this issue by granting the same rights to an independant Palestine that were granted to the so called freedom terrorist Ben Gurion in 1948.

Gee what a surprise to read yet another drivel.

So do tell how much Israel gets from US? How much it gives back to US?

Then tells how much Palis get from the same U.S. And how much they give back in any shape or form ?

Now tell me amounts given by EU to Palis ? Plus by Iran and the rest Arab & Co?

Ohh wait, you actually thought they were self sufficient? Lol

[Jay Sata]

Israel is on a par with North Korea in that it has a semi secret nuclear weapon stockpile.

The whole world mocks Israel for having the Dimona nuclear site while trying to deny any form of civil nuclear electricity

in Iran.

I agree the UN inspectors should check out global nuclear research and weapon proliferation but why is it Israel cannot sign the treaty?

Using the Israeli model the next stage will be a Middle East country buying the whole nuclear package from Russia or China.

The world will not stand by and let a tiny country like Israel call the shots forever. If they were serious about threats then ISIS is the major one on the horizon.

[konying]

Israel is on a par with North Korea in that it has a semi secret nuclear weapon stockpile.

The whole world mocks Israel for having the Dimona nuclear site while trying to deny any form of civil nuclear electricity

in Iran.

I agree the UN inspectors should check out global nuclear research and weapon proliferation but why is it Israel cannot sign the treaty?

Using the Israeli model the next stage will be a Middle East country buying the whole nuclear package from Russia or China.

The world will not stand by and let a tiny country like Israel call the shots forever. If they were serious about threats then ISIS is the major one on the horizon.

Lol, you just do not know when to stop the stupidity. Too ridiculous to even comment

[Linky]

The majority of the world, the ever increasing majority recognises Palestine.

Have fun with your decreasing minority one eyed view as it wont last long and no amount of hissy fits and but but but will stop it.

[Ulysses G.]

The majority of the world recognizes Iran and North Korea too. They will probably be recognizing the Islamic State before long. It means very little realistically. Palestine has no borders, security or water rights and will not get them without negotiating with Israel as they committed to in the Oslo Accords.

[boomerangutang]

How about Gaza get absorbed by Egypt as an added province? There are no easy solutions, but they're (mostly ) all Islamists. Would Israel have a problem with that? It would be better than having roving bands of punks lobbing home-made bombs over fences.

The West Bank is a bit different, as there are already Jewish settlements there. If I were King of the world, I'd have Israel absorb the West Bank, and trust that its gov't would treat resident Palestinians as citizens - except for individual Palestinians who break the law and need to be tossed in jail or exiled.

Already, there are some Palestinians residing in Israel as citizens, and they seem to be doing OK.

Then there are the Saudis, who refuse to allow a Jew to even visit the Kingdom - but that's a side issue.

[Jingthing]

I don't think the Gaza people want to be absorbed by Egypt and does Egypt even want that?

Maybe Gaza should be it's own small country, like Singapore, because the "alliance" with the west bank isn't working.

Most of the Palestinians in the West Bank would not want to be Israeli citizens and Israel wouldn't want them to be either because then Israel would no longer be a majority Jewish nation.

That was the idea of Israel ... a homeland for the Jewish people.

That said, most of the Arab Israeli citizens do not go to live in the west bank or Gaza and probably wouldn't if/when Palestine becomes a legit separate state.

Also most Palestinians actually want a greater "Palestine" including the current Israel with the Jews gone.

But guess what, the Jews ain't going.

Thus, this conflict isn't going anywhere soon.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Posting error. Delete.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

Israel knew economical difficulties in times of peace since the beginning.

It turned to welfare in times of war with its neighbours due to foreign payments and sponsorship and delivery of weapons.

Turning point in history was the 7th of January 1952...

Good try, let's try again , shall we.

Jordan murdered 20 000 in 11 days just for fun.

Go ahead , comment

I'm afraid dead Palis have no currency of themselves, a bit like the mythical Palestinian nation. To be redeemable for propaganda value Israel has to be suspected of causing the death, though by proxy will also suffice as was the case when the Druze killed a few hundred once.

[Steely Dan]

I don't think the Gaza people want to be absorbed by Egypt and does Egypt even want that?

Maybe Gaza should be it's own small country, like Singapore, because the "alliance" with the west bank isn't working.

Most of the Palestinians in the West Bank would not want to be Israeli citizens and Israel wouldn't want them to be either because then Israel would no longer be a majority Jewish nation.

That was the idea of Israel ... a homeland for the Jewish people.

That said, most of the Arab Israeli citizens do not go to live in the west bank or Gaza and probably wouldn't if/when Palestine becomes a legit separate state.

Also most Palestinians actually want a greater "Palestine" including the current Israel with the Jews gone.

But guess what, the Jews ain't going.

Thus, this conflict isn't going anywhere soon.

Quite so, in a recent poll 78% of Israeli arabs stated they preferred to be governed by Israel than the Palestinian 'authority' (sic).

[boomerangutang]

I don't think the Gaza people want to be absorbed by Egypt and does Egypt even want that?

Maybe Gaza should be it's own small country, like Singapore, because the "alliance" with the west bank isn't working.

Most of the Palestinians in the West Bank would not want to be Israeli citizens and Israel wouldn't want them to be either because then Israel would no longer be a majority Jewish nation.

That was the idea of Israel ... a homeland for the Jewish people.

That said, most of the Arab Israeli citizens do not go to live in the west bank or Gaza and probably wouldn't if/when Palestine becomes a legit separate state.

Also most Palestinians actually want a greater "Palestine" including the current Israel with the Jews gone.

But guess what, the Jews ain't going.

Thus, this conflict isn't going anywhere soon.

Yes, it's acknowledged there are no good options. Only options that are least awful. ....or, biz as usual, which is rowdies acting up every several months, IDF responding strongly, more Palestinian building ground to rubble, and Palestinians crying to the world community for added tens of millions of dollars to try and patch things up. Then a few months go by, and deja vu all over again.

Perhaps Israel will have to somehow accept their country having an Arab majority, similar to Californians accepting their state becoming Latin majority, or Belgium accepting their country becoming Islamist majority (estimated to be the 1st European country where that happens). People generally acclimate and blend-in. Most Italian Americans aren't mafia. Most Jamaican-born Brits aren't spliff-toking rastafarians - or maybe they are .

[Thorgal]

Israel knew economical difficulties in times of peace since the beginning.

It turned to welfare in times of war with its neighbours due to foreign payments and sponsorship and delivery of weapons.

Turning point in history was the 7th of January 1952...

Good try, let's try again , shall we.

Jordan murdered 20 000 in 11 days just for fun.

Go ahead , comment

There have been 3500 to 5000 Palestinian killings during Black September operation.

PLO wanted to take over power of King Hussein in 1970 and the Jordan army fought back. So far what people want to hear.

On the other hand, one should consider that these people lived peacefully for centuries until Israel came into the region.

The same period was characterised with intens terroristic attacks between PLO and Mossad.

It has also been suggested that the entire operation had been a Mossad covert action, led by one of its key operatives, Sylvia Roxburgh, or with her real name Sylvia Rafael.

She had an affair with King Hussein in the same period of Black September.

[Ulysses G.]

It has also been suggested that the entire operation had been a Mossad covert action

Suggested by conspiracy theory nutjobs.

[konying]

Israel knew economical difficulties in times of peace since the beginning.

It turned to welfare in times of war with its neighbours due to foreign payments and sponsorship and delivery of weapons.

Turning point in history was the 7th of January 1952...

Good try, let's try again , shall we.

Jordan murdered 20 000 in 11 days just for fun.

Go ahead , comment

There have been 3500 to 5000 Palestinian killings during Black September operation.

PLO wanted to take over power of King Hussein in 1970 and the Jordan army fought back. So far what people want to hear.

On the other hand, one should consider that these people lived peacefully for centuries until Israel came into the region.

The same period was characterised with intens terroristic attacks between PLO and Mossad.

It has also been suggested that the entire operation had been a Mossad covert action, led by one of its key operatives, Sylvia Roxburgh, or with her real name Sylvia Rafael.

She had an affair with King Hussein in the same period of Black September.

I love your selective choice of what is reliable .

When it comes to Israel, Arab figures are always correct but when it comes to your agenda then story changes.

Jordan claimed 3500 were killed while Palis , Arafat claimed 20000 were killed .

So now that you are aware of the facts and agree Palis would never lie or exaggerate, please comment on 20 000 killed , for no other reason than a sport.

[Thorgal]

Israel knew economical difficulties in times of peace since the beginning.

It turned to welfare in times of war with its neighbours due to foreign payments and sponsorship and delivery of weapons.

Turning point in history was the 7th of January 1952...

Good try, let's try again , shall we.

Jordan murdered 20 000 in 11 days just for fun.

Go ahead , comment

There have been 3500 to 5000 Palestinian killings during Black September operation.

PLO wanted to take over power of King Hussein in 1970 and the Jordan army fought back. So far what people want to hear.

On the other hand, one should consider that these people lived peacefully for centuries until Israel came into the region.

The same period was characterised with intens terroristic attacks between PLO and Mossad.

It has also been suggested that the entire operation had been a Mossad covert action, led by one of its key operatives, Sylvia Roxburgh, or with her real name Sylvia Rafael.

She had an affair with King Hussein in the same period of Black September.

I love your selective choice of what is reliable .

When it comes to Israel, Arab figures are always correct but when it comes to your agenda then story changes.

Jordan claimed 3500 were killed while Palis , Arafat claimed 20000 were killed .

So now that you are aware of the facts and agree Palis would never lie or exaggerate, please comment on 20 000 killed , for no other reason than a sport.

Around 950 Palestinian Fedayeen militia have been killed and estimated 3 to 4000 'non-combatant' Palestinian civilians too.

Only Arafat claimed 20.000 Palestinian casualities and his quote has never been confirmed as correct.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Thorgal

[chuckd]

I actually think Obama is talking sense here.

Sorry to those that hate Obama.

Though I'm not sure I share his long term optimism. While I agree a real two state solution is the only not-horrible answer to this mess, building the trust between the two sides to actually make that possible seems so far away in the future.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Obama-Deal-with-Palestinians-not-possible-in-coming-year-due-to-make-up-of-Netanyahu-govt-403244

“We worked very hard, but frankly, the politics inside of Israel and the politics among the Palestinians as well made it very difficult for each side to trust each other enough to make that leap.”

Obama said he has told Israel that it could not remain a state that is both democratic and Jewish if it continues to have the conflict unresolved and that he has told the Palestinians that they need to recognize Israel if they are to have a state.

On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the politics of fear has been stronger than the politics of hope, he said.

As usual, Obama throws some Catch-22 logic into the ether and hopes it sticks.

How can the conflict become resolved when a requirement for peace is that the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist, yet the Palestinians refuse to do so and claim they never will?

The Palestinians are the ones holding up any attempt at a peace process and it has always been so.

More of Obama's..."If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

[Thorgal]

Israel never states its intention.

Never says it has nuclear weapons but even blind freddy knows it has. It wont even allow inspections.

Israel never states it wants to wipe out the Palestinians but it continues to do so.

Israel never says it wants more land but continues to take anything it can whilst against UN resolutions and against the views of even the US, its greatest defender.

Israel just does not say anything, it just does things. Actions speak louder than words.

The world knows this, except for very few ostrichs.

So in your fantasy world where logic is not required, Israel with all the nukes and super weapons wanting to wipe out Palestinians, has not done so because?

Would be an enormous historical mistake for Jewish people.

The region is only made for 1 country with 3 religions...

Really? But according to your Israel bashing buddy this is what Israel is doing. Funny that huh?!

Let's put aside Jordan slaughtering more Palis in 11 days than Israel killed in 66 odd years during armed conflict.

I guess when there is nothing logical to post, just resort to nonsense .

From link :

Estimated 91.000 Palestinians died during ALL Israeli-armed conflicts. Jordanian estimated Palestinian casualities were estimated to 5.000. Referring to your own wrong quote : Israel instead still has in its history of 66 years occupation a majority of Palestinian casualities.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html

The rest of your post is correct...

Edited May 17, 2015 by Thorgal