Bangkok Bank BeWorst Card

[jipsen]

Same me.... DONT work all atm.only BKK bank. Went too the bank 7 times over a period off 14 days... Not species friendly staff in Jomtien.

At last get a new card it works in store...they say 1 oktober it came be use in all arm boxes.

[Argus Tuft]

I tend to agree, I have the same card and it is a complicated card to use ... I tried to buy lotto tickets on line .. always declined, however I have purchased Air Asia tickets with it & no problem. I can use it at any ATM in Thailand.

I use to have a Kasikorn Visa card ... that was a wasted effort, could not buy anything on line and just kept getting a bill for card keeping fees. Cut that one up ...

What happen to having a Visa / Debit card that can be used anywhere ? any ATM worldwide ? any on line purchase ?

is it possible .. ?

Just noticing your lotto remark - my thai cc won't do lotto purchases in my home country, no foreign card allowed, not sure if this is what you experienced

[sikishrory]

You need to activate the online purchases. I would suggest calling them. I thought I activated it on an ATM years ago with my first card but the one with the chip I couldn't but I was in a hurry and didn't have a good look through the options... call them.

I was using my regular be1st card for years to purchase all kinds of stuff online with no problems except you do have to confirm a security code via sms. I would suggest calling them to make sure it is activated and then ordering maccas or pizza and try paying online to test it.

[chilli42]

Can't say anything about the BB debit card. In general, I dislike debit cards as I feel they are not as secure as credit cards. If your credit card is hacked, as mine have been, I find the Thai banks excellent in covering the bogus charges. If your debit card is hacked it comes straught out of your account. Finally, if you want to pay online PayPal is very good - though not used by all online retailers. My view would be cut the debit card in half and use cash and credit card.

[Saan]

Can't say anything about the BB debit card. In general, I dislike debit cards as I feel they are not as secure as credit cards. If your credit card is hacked, as mine have been, I find the Thai banks excellent in covering the bogus charges. If your debit card is hacked it comes straught out of your account. Finally, if you want to pay online PayPal is very good - though not used by all online retailers. My view would be cut the debit card in half and use cash and credit card.

It's a pain in the arse to do it this way, but I have two Bangkok Bank cards. One I've never used in an ATM. I transfer money from that account when I need to to my other account and only a small amount is sitting there, for a short time, in the danger zone.

[boonchu]

I also use this card and have had no problems other than when using it at Home Pro you cannot get the extra discount as you do when using a credit card.

[lucifer666]

I've had one for over 7 years and I have never been able to use it for a online purchase.

[dageurreotype]

You need to activate the online purchases. I would suggest calling them. I thought I activated it on an ATM years ago with my first card but the one with the chip I couldn't but I was in a hurry and didn't have a good look through the options... call them.

I was using my regular be1st card for years to purchase all kinds of stuff online with no problems except you do have to confirm a security code via sms. I would suggest calling them to make sure it is activated and then ordering maccas or pizza and try paying online to test it.

I'd thought about the 'activation' process when buying online. They'd made a big palaver over a simple registration (at least four attempts and as many SMS), so am assuming this may be the problem. Call them? Haha. No, will call in on Monday. This branch (main one) all went to shit when the only member of staff with a brain cell was transferred to a branch up the island nearer her home in Thalang.

I remember having this Be1st card many years ago with no problems, so I'm guessing it's the 'chipped' thing that is doing their little noodles in. Thailand and technology

Edited May 30, 2015 by dageurreotype

[Farang99]

Bangkok Bank issues two kinds of Be1st cards; one can be used in any ATM, the other only in BKK ATMs. I was asked which I wanted and chose the unrestricted one. I have never tried to use it as a credit card.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Farang99

[mikebell]

I have used my BKK Bank debit card to buy online from many different country's.

I have never had a problem and I think its the best debit card in Thailand.

Made a reservation at a hotel in LA using my UK debit card. Next morning reception told me there was a problem with my card. (UK bank need informing you will be using it in another country.) In desperation I gave them my BKK card. No problem.

In Cambodia, ran out of cash so used my BKK card & withdrew $200.

[sandyf]

I tend to agree, I have the same card and it is a complicated card to use ... I tried to buy lotto tickets on line .. always declined, however I have purchased Air Asia tickets with it & no problem. I can use it at any ATM in Thailand.

I use to have a Kasikorn Visa card ... that was a wasted effort, could not buy anything on line and just kept getting a bill for card keeping fees. Cut that one up ...

What happen to having a Visa / Debit card that can be used anywhere ? any ATM worldwide ? any on line purchase ?

is it possible .. ?

Not until they all get their act together.

15 years ago I could use any of my UK credit or debit card in Thailand without a problem, then the UK screwed it up when they introduced 'Chip & Pin'. As Thailand had not implemented the technology UK banks tended to block the transaction, so until we are all on a level playing field there will be problems.

I believe the US is also reluctant to accept this type of card so it is unlikely the problem will be resolved in the short term.

[wooloomooloo]

^ Eh? I use UK debit and credit cards in LOS twice a year and never been declined.

[sandyf]

^ Eh? I use UK debit and credit cards in LOS twice a year and never been declined.

It is about 10 years now since 'Chip & Pin' was introduced in the UK. If you had been here at that time you would have had problems unless you had made previous arrangements with your bank.

One would hope that things have improved since then.

[sandyf]

Chip and PIN systems can cause problems for travellers from countries that do not issue chip and PIN cards (most notably, the USA) as some retailers may refuse to accept their chipless cards. While most terminals still accept a magnetic strip card, and the major credit card brands require vendors to accept them, some staff may refuse to take the card, under the belief that they are held liable for any fraud if the card cannot verify a PIN. Non-chip-and-PIN cards may also not work in some unattended vending machines at, for example, train stations, or self-service check-out tills at supermarkets.

In 2010, a number of companies began issuing pre-paid debit cards that incorporate Chip & PIN and allow Americans to load cash as Euros or British Pounds. United Nations Federal Credit Union was the first US issuer to offer Chip and PIN credit cards. As of June 17, 2011, Chase began offering the JP Morgan Select Visa credit card, which also offers a Chip & Signature, but not Chip & PIN capability, to US cardholders. Since December 2013, the Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature credit card is issued with Chip & Signature as well.

[IMA_FARANG]

As I said before on this forum I have a Bangkok Bank Be1st card.

I do not use it for on-line purchases.

I use it for cash in Bangkok Bank ATMs in Thailand.

Also I have used it for cash from non Bangkok Bank ATMs in Malaysia and Vietnam successfully while on holiday in those countries.

Of course there is a small fee for using it in another Bank ATM in Malaysia or Vietnam.

I have never tried using it for Cash in Cambodia so I have no idea if that would work there or not.

But as I said I can verify it worked for small amounts of cash both in Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam and Penang and KL in Malaysia.

Edited May 30, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[wooloomooloo]

^ Eh? I use UK debit and credit cards in LOS twice a year and never been declined.

It is about 10 years now since 'Chip & Pin' was introduced in the UK. If you had been here at that time you would have had problems unless you had made previous arrangements with your bank.

One would hope that things have improved since then.

You stated that there are still problems with chip and pin and now you say that you hope they're resolved. What is it?

I've already informed that I experience no problems in LOS with UK cards.

I fear you're waffling for the sake of it.

[sandyf]

^ Eh? I use UK debit and credit cards in LOS twice a year and never been declined.

It is about 10 years now since 'Chip & Pin' was introduced in the UK. If you had been here at that time you would have had problems unless you had made previous arrangements with your bank.

One would hope that things have improved since then.

You stated that there are still problems with chip and pin and now you say that you hope they're resolved. What is it?

I've already informed that I experience no problems in LOS with UK cards.

I fear you're waffling for the sake of it.

You are making an issue out of nothing and taking words out of context. The introduction of C&P caused problems and I have not used my UK cards in Thailand since.

There are still 2 systems in use, Chip & Pin and Swipe, which are not entirely compatible. If you use a card that does not have a chip in a system that expects a chip to be used, then there is every chance of a problem. Until this situation is resolved there will always be people complaining about cards not working properly, or working at one machine and not at another.

My Thai bank card does not have a chip and I would not think about using it with a standard payment processor.

[Pib]

Chip and PIN systems can cause problems for travellers from countries that do not issue chip and PIN cards (most notably, the USA) as some retailers may refuse to accept their chipless cards. While most terminals still accept a magnetic strip card, and the major credit card brands require vendors to accept them, some staff may refuse to take the card, under the belief that they are held liable for any fraud if the card cannot verify a PIN. Non-chip-and-PIN cards may also not work in some unattended vending machines at, for example, train stations, or self-service check-out tills at supermarkets.

In 2010, a number of companies began issuing pre-paid debit cards that incorporate Chip & PIN and allow Americans to load cash as Euros or British Pounds. United Nations Federal Credit Union was the first US issuer to offer Chip and PIN credit cards. As of June 17, 2011, Chase began offering the JP Morgan Select Visa credit card, which also offers a Chip & Signature, but not Chip & PIN capability, to US cardholders. Since December 2013, the Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa Signature credit card is issued with Chip & Signature as well.

To add to above just because a card has Chip & Signature mode does not mean it does not have Chip & PIN mode. Most U.S. cards coming out with chips allow Chip & Signature and Chip & PIN....the card will work in either mode depending on the mode the Point of Service/ATM machine requires or prefers. And they still come with magnetic stripe along with the chip. For example, a chipped card is inserted into a POS machine for purchase, the card and POS machine first communicate with each other regarding what mode is acceptable to each. If the "card-issuing" bank has set the card to only work in Chip & PIN mode well that's fine as long as the POS machine is willing to accept Chip & PIN mode. Some to many merchant POS machines in certain countries/parts of the world may not want to deal with Chip & PIN mode because of extra time require to complete the transaction and the need to have the POS machine easily acceptable to the customer....and of course those cases where the customer forgot the PIN. The merchant still prefers making a sale over which mode (Chip & Signature or Chip & PIN) to require for a sale...Chip & Signature is just faster with no PIN related issues.

The merchant and his local processing bank (i.e., the local bank providing the POS service/machines) determine how their POS machines are setup. Apparently in some countries like Europe the POS machines are geared to Chip & PIN from what I have read..so if the card does not have Chip & PIN capability or the card owner forgot his PIN well he is just SOL. Basically both the card and the POS machine must agree on what modes are acceptable to each party.

In Thailand, the check POS machines tend to be located behind the counter very close to the cashier machine and "can't" be moved to where the customer could enter a PIN without going behind the counter. You must hand them your card for them to insert into the POS and accomplished the transaction to get a receipt for signature to print out.

In Thailand, as in the U.S. and other countries, they are opting for Chip & Signature as the preferred mode for at least now. I can count on one finger the number of times standing in checkout here in Thailand where someone using a credit card apparently had to enter a PIN to complete the purchase....and I'm talking about chipped cards...almost every Thai credit card is chipped wheresas only Bangkok Bank has chipped debit cards. I use my U.S. credit cards almost daily in Bangkok and the surrounding area. I have around 6 credit cards (too many really), and 4 already come with chips...the other two will come with chips when the expire over the coming year. I have never been required in Thailand to enter a PIN with my chipped credit cards...even for a cash advance at the bank....the card is inserted, usually the checkout clerk does not push even one button...sometimes one button...and within around two seconds the receipt for signature prints out...I sign it...transaction done. Heck, within the last hour I filled-up my SUV at a PTT service station, used one of my chipped cards, the fuel attendant inserts the card, no buttons are pushed, and in about two seconds the receipt of signature prints out...I sign it...transaction done.

So if a local Thai store checkout won't accept your chipped card in could be because your card-issuing bank only allows Chip & PIN (no Chip & Signature mode also setup on the card), the clerk inserts the card, the clerk gets a POS machines response of PIN Entry Required, the clerk seeing this has already been trained not to do PIN entries because of how the checkout is setup (i.e., the POS machine on a very short cable hooked to the cashier machine), and then they just tell you the card is not working on the machine. Well, it's working, but the merchant is just not doing Chip & PIN entries so you are told the card is not working and asked if you got another card...or maybe have cash.

There are other factors related to whether chipped card will operate in a POS machine, like whether the card or machine will allow offline transactions also or just online transactions. That is, whether an immediate authorization must be obtained online before finalizing the translation like in how an ATM communicates with your card issuing bank to get the authorization to spit out cash to you.

No doubt Chip & PIN will eventually become the norm and the only way to complete a transaction, but for now at least due to various reasons Chip & Signature is still widely used for chipped cards depending on what part of the world you are doing the transaction in.

[Pib]

I think this is a good article on briefly covering card fraud liability shift in the U.S. And since approx half of all worldwide card transactions occur in the U.S. according to another article I read, I expect below liability shift timeline may be a timeline used in other countries which haven't fully transitioned to chipped card transactions. Article quoted below with link also provided.

http://www.bematechus.com/your-emv-liability-shift-questions-answered/

****************************************

Your EMV Liability Shift Questions Answered

With the impending October 2015 liability shift approaching in the United States, it’s time to talk about EMV and what the U.S. EMV migration means for businesses that accept credit and debit cards.

First things first, EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard, and Visa, which is a global standard for credit and debit cards equipped with computer chips and the technology used to authenticate chip-card transactions. EMV uses better data security, which is important to help protect consumers against large-scale data breaches and counterfeit card fraud.

The EMV liability shift can seem confusing, but it’s important for business owners to understand the implications of the liability shift in order to make the decisions necessary to ensure EMV compliance.

We’ve answered some of the top questions surrounding EMV and the EMV liability shift:

How is EMV safer than traditional magnetic -stripe cards?

Both magnetic-stripe cards and EMV cards are processed in two steps: card reading and transaction verification. The difference between magnetic-stripe cards and EMV cards, though, is that unlike a magnetic stripe which stores unchanging data, the chip in an EMV card generates a unique transaction code for each transaction that cannot be used again.

This is safer than traditional magnetic stripe technology because if a store or restaurant has its payment information system hacked, the information generated by EMV cannot be used to make additional purchases.

What kind of card reader will my business need?

For EMV technology to work, your point-of-sale system must be equipped with the technology to read and communicate with the EMV microchip. Chip cards are read differently than magnetic-stripe cards in that they are either “dipped” or “tapped” instead of “swiped”. EMV cards can be inserted in a terminal slot where data then flows between the card chip and issuing financial institution. EMV cards can also support near field communication (NFC) that allows for the card to be tapped against a terminal scanner that picks up card data. Right now, in the United States, most financial institutions are issuing contact cards, meaning cards will be “dipped” into a terminal slot.

When deciding to upgrade to an EMV system, it’s important to research potential vendors to ensure they have a proven track record and can offer ongoing support. If your business currently runs on a software-based POS system, you’ll want to discuss EMV with your provider.

What does a “shift in liability” mean?

Currently, major U.S. credit card issuers can be held liable in the event of an in-store transaction conducted using a counterfeit, stolen, or compromised card. After October 1, 2015, the liability for card-present fraud will shift to whichever party is the least EMV-compliant. MasterCard defines the liability shift in the following way: “The party, either the issuer or merchant, who does not support EMV, assumes liability for counterfeit card transactions.” In this definition, the word “issuer” refers to banks, credit unions, or any other financial institution issuing credit or debit cards, not the credit card companies themselves.

As per Visa, “With this liability shift, the party that is the cause of a chip transaction not occurring (i.e., either the issuer or the merchant’s acquirer processor) will be held financially liable for any resulting card present counterfeit”

What is the EMV liability shift timeline?

• April 19, 2013 – Maestro shifted liability for international chip cards used in the US.
• October 1, 2015 – Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover liability shift for POS terminals.
• October 1, 2016 – MasterCard liability shift for ATMs.
• October 1, 2017 – Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover liability shift for pay-at-pump gas stations, as well as for Visa and AmEx at ATMs.

If you haven’t considered making the upgrade to EMV, now is the time to start thinking about making the change. Discuss the upcoming liability shift with your POS provider to ensure you’re ahead of the game. Although upgrading to an EMV system may seem costly now, the cost of a security breach will be much, much higher.

[sandyf]

To add to above just because a card has Chip & Signature mode does not mean it does not have Chip & PIN mode. Most U.S. cards coming out with chips allow Chip & Signature and Chip & PIN....

That sentence surprised me as the last I heard they were set against it. Looked it up and found this from October. A standard system may well be on its way.

US President Barack Obama has signed an executive order demanding that US government bodies make the move to chip and pin credit cards and terminals by January, replacing magnetic strip based technology. The move is designed to enhance transaction security.

The US is more than a decade behind many other countries in adopting chip and pin systems, which are standard in much of Europe and other developed countries around the world. Only two per cent of Americans have chip and pin enabled cards, according to the Smart Card Alliance.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leoking/2014/10/21/is-the-us-finally-accelerating-a-move-to-chip-and-pin/

[Pib]

Yea...I read that also...but that memo signed by the prez is just directed towards govt agencies that use credit cards and award contracts related to credit cards issued to govt agencies. Plus it's just pointing out what is already happening in the civilian world.

In Foodland right now at their restaurant...just finished using my chipped card in Chip and Signature mode to pay for groceries like always.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The main issue about BKKB is that they have two different technology versions of their debit cards:

1. one with the original magnetic strip technology, which can be used in ATMs anywhere.

2. the newer version with the chip technology, which only can be used in BKKB ATMs.

That some people are posting here saying they have no problems, and others posting that they can't use other ATMs, is because those posters obviously have different versions of the BKKB ATM/debit cards. All the older cards out there are the magnetic only versions, while more recently, BKKB has been trying to issue new cards that are chipped as much as they can.

Separate from that, though, is the making online purchases issue. I think part of the problem there comes with trying to use their card for online purchases when your name isn't listed on the card, but you're being asked to enter a name online as part of the purchase. But I'm not entirely sure about that.

I have my BKKB card set to disable (not allow) POS (point of sale) purchases, including online ones. Because Thailand has very weak, almost non-existent consumer legal protections against debit card fraud, especially compared to the U.S., where as long as you report any fraud promptly, you're basically protected in full or very close to it.

The last thing I want to do is to be using a BKKB debit card number online here in Thailand where who knows who is going to potentially have access to my card info, and I'm basically at the mercy of the bank if anything goes wrong.

I don't think anyone here has ever been able to get a debit card customer liability policy out of BKK that spells out their practice on this. But quite a few of the Thai banks have policies that state the cardholder is responsible for all charges up until 5 minutes after having reported the card lost, stolen or compromised -- which is little help in an online fraud situation.

[Pib]

I think below couple of paragraphs from the PenFed Credit Union website sum up pretty well the shift to "chipped" cards for U.S. cards that account for over 40% of worldwide card purchase transactions like shown in below chart. And keep in mind the key security enhancement is not so much whether you must enter a PIN or Sign to to finalize the transaction, the key point is the card has a "chip" in comparison to a magnetic stripe. The term Chip & PIN does not necessarily mean the card must be used with a PIN...it could very well be used only with a Signature...your card-issuing bank and/or merchant is the determinant as to which or both modes can be used....the Chip & PIN phrase really just means a card with a chip; not that a PIN must be used. But in some parts of the world use of the PIN is required....from what I read Europe is heavy in PIN use for purchases.

And when I really got interested in trying to under the different modes a "chipped" card can operate in like PIN, Signature, Online, Offline, Card Not Present etc., numerous articles said that at least in the U.S. the majority of card-issuing bank/companies were providing cards that worked in Chip & PIN and Chip & Signature mode...either mode...basically whatever mode the merchant, ATM, unattended machine required.

And of course for online purchases a card having a chip provides no additional security over a magnetic stripe card because the neither the chip or magnetic stripe is being used for an online purchase as its a "Card Not Present" purchase...only info being used is the card number and security code you have manually entered at some point. If a hacker intercepts your entry of your card data...or hacks into the database of a company where you have stored the card info then you are possibly screwed unless your country has strong consumer protection laws.

Chip and Signature versus Chip and PIN cards:

Chip cards can be chip and signature, chip and PIN, or a combination of both.

Some merchants may request a signature, while some merchants may request that you enter a PIN at the time of purchase. For example, purchasing a train ticket at an unattended electronic kiosk will require the use of a PIN, whereas at other merchant locations, a signature may be required for verification.

PenFed chip enabled credit cards are a smart choice because they include both signature and PIN verification.

How come the U.S. is not already using chip and PIN technology?

Switching to chip technology is a sizable expense for financial institutions who issue the cards as well as the merchants who process the cards. Chip cards are more expensive to produce than the traditional magnetic strip card. In addition, merchants will need to invest in chip compatible card readers at the point of sale.
The cost has left businesses dragging their feet, but with increasing rates of credit card fraud, chip cards are starting to look a lot more appealing.

Visa and MasterCard are aiming for nationwide adoption of chip cards by October 2015; after which point liability for fraudulent transactions will fall upon the financial institutions or the retailers who have not updated their systems to be compatible with new chip cards.

2015 Nilson Report of Card Purchase Transaction Worldwide by Area 2013 vs 2023

[sandyf]

I think below couple of paragraphs from the PenFed Credit Union website sum up pretty well the shift to "chipped" cards for U.S. cards that account for over 40% of worldwide card purchase transactions like shown in below chart. And keep in mind the key security enhancement is not so much whether you must enter a PIN or Sign to to finalize the transaction, the key point is the card has a "chip" in comparison to a magnetic stripe. The term Chip & PIN does not necessarily mean the card must be used with a PIN...it could very well be used only with a Signature...your card-issuing bank and/or merchant is the determinant as to which or both modes can be used....the Chip & PIN phrase really just means a card with a chip; not that a PIN must be used. But in some parts of the world use of the PIN is required....from what I read Europe is heavy in PIN use for purchases.

And when I really got interested in trying to under the different modes a "chipped" card can operate in like PIN, Signature, Online, Offline, Card Not Present etc., numerous articles said that at least in the U.S. the majority of card-issuing bank/companies were providing cards that worked in Chip & PIN and Chip & Signature mode...either mode...basically whatever mode the merchant, ATM, unattended machine required.

And of course for online purchases a card having a chip provides no additional security over a magnetic stripe card because the neither the chip or magnetic stripe is being used for an online purchase as its a "Card Not Present" purchase...only info being used is the card number and security code you have manually entered at some point. If a hacker intercepts your entry of your card data...or hacks into the database of a company where you have stored the card info then you are possibly screwed unless your country has strong consumer protection laws.

You are quite right in what you say and the previous post was quite informative. There is a wide range of usage scenarios that can contribute to the general mix.

When the technology was first introduced by the UK it looks like the default was C&P, I think I had 4 cards at the time and everyone of them failed in an ATM. I had to phone the bank to allow a transaction, would only work one time after a phone call.

The UK was the front runner with C&P and the term was pushed to differentiate from the old voucher arrangement. You have always needed a PIN to use a credit card in an ATM so in fact the PIN was nothing new. In the UK PIN is required at all physical POS.

For well over 5 years now I have only ever used my credit card for online payments and that also requires a PIN but that is under the Verified by Visa arrangement.

[JimGant]

Interesting the varied routes being taken by US credit card issuers. Bank of America is chip and signature only:

From B of A website:

When traveling internationally, on rare occasions, you may be asked to provide a PIN. Just communicate to the merchant that the credit card requires a signature only. Bank of America doesn't currently offer consumer credit cards that include PIN authorization for purchases.

Yeah, just say, "Sir, this card is only a chip and signature model. Its PIN only works for ATM operations, not POS transactions." At which he'll say: "Take a flying leap. I'm set up for PIN mode due to my appreciation of the added security of a PIN."

Now, I just got my new chipped Capital One Quicksilver Visa credit card (unexpectedly, as expiration date was many months away. Fortunately, I wasn't traveling, as presumably the card it replaced would now expire sooner than advertised). Anyway, it too is only chip and signature. And here's their lame excuse:

From Capital One website:

Both Chip and PIN and Chip and Signature cards offer better fraud protection than traditional magnetic stripe cards. The only difference is that the Chip and PIN card requires you to enter a PIN at checkout while the Chip and Signature card only requires your signature. Good news! Capital One chip cards will be Chip and Signature cards, so there’s no additional PIN to remember.

Wow, great news indeed! -- as there's no additional PIN to remember, which comes in handy with Alzheimer's.. However, I really really wanted that purchase in Europe, but the merchant refused my card, mumbling something about bloody Yanks don't understand the added security of requiring a PIN.

But, I would not be out of luck after all -- 'cause my new USAA MasterCard, replacing the expiring non-chip card, has both chip and signature and chip and PIN modes. (And presumably same will happen when my USAA Visa card expires.) And, easy to go on-line with USAA and establish a PIN.

Now, my Quicksilver card is my card of chose, with its no foreign transaction fee and 1.5% cash back. So I called Capital One to verify the no chip and PIN option. Yep. But the nice lady said they were getting lots of complaints about this, and may change this policy (probably requiring a new chipped card to be issued). I pointed out that my USAA card could be used in situations where the Quicksilver card couldn't. Upon which she said, "Yes, but it has a 1% foreign transaction fee -- but we'll refund that, and any other costs associated with their lack of chip and PIN functionality." Obviously, I wasn't her first phone call on this subject.

Anyway, interesting the different avenues US bank issuers of plastic are taking. Just wonder if issuers have a higher liability if their cards are chip and signature only....? Hmmmmm.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For the U.S. rules once the chipped bank cards come into full status, I thought I read in one of the posts here that if a fraud issue arises, the responsible party between the bank vs. the merchant will be whichever once has the lower/lesser level of security in their system.

Edited June 2, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

For the U.S. rules once the chipped bank cards come into full status, I thought I read in one of the posts here that if a fraud issue arises, the responsible party between the bank vs. the merchant will be whichever once has the lower/lesser level of security in their system.

Yes and no with fine print....go to this webpage which talks Understanding The 2015 U.S. Fraud Liability Shifts and download the EMV Migration Forum White Paper....it's only 5 pages long but it's enough to hurt your head in understanding the fine points of under what circumstances liability shifts to who. Liability will vary by card network....things like PIN Bypass come into play...and this paper applies to the U.S. which implies to me liability shifts may vary a little from country to country. The paper has a few short paragraphs on "cross-border" transactions which I think said would vary slightly depending on the network...mentioned those "participating countries in liability shift"...does that mean liability shift will vary from country to country...I don't know...I'm unsure after reading the paper.

Just came back from the store here in Bangkok that I buy a lot of my dog food/stuff at...as long as I've been here they have always had a surcharge of 1.5% for a regular debit/credit card....and 2.5% for a gold/platinum type card...applied to Thai or foreign cards....since they had this surcharge I would always pay cash. But they have just changed to no surcharge but any card purchase must be for at least Bt1,000. Cool...I was buying about Bt1,100 of dog stuff, handed them my PenFed chipped credit card which gives me 1.5% cashback reward, the clerk isserts the card into the POS machine which was easily movable to the customer, I thought for a second the clerk was then going to hand me the POS machine so I could enter my PIN, but no, it was processed as Chip and Signature, the receipt printed out for signature (not a DCC transaction either which I would have refused), I signed it...transaction done. Now I can mark one more place off my list of stores that do DCC by default and/or charge a card surcharge....I don't do business with these stores unless I have to "or" they have very good prices which this particular store does & I then pay in cash.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Pib

[sandyf]

It is fairly common now in the UK for people to buy drinks with a credit/debit card. Many of the pubs/restaurants now use wireless card readers, a whole new way of life is developing.

I wonder how long before the bar girls will have smartphones with built in POS.

[Pib]

It is fairly common now in the UK for people to buy drinks with a credit/debit card. Many of the pubs/restaurants now use wireless card readers, a whole new way of life is developing.

I wonder how long before the bar girls will have smartphones with built in POS.

I think the girls will stay in cash only mode just to avoid tax issues.

[NanLaew]

The first ATM card I got from BB was the 'use anywhere', mag stripe Be1st. It split and when I went for a replacement, they were out of those so they had me try the newly minted Be1st with chip & pin; no extra charge. The added security was somewhat lessened by the discovery that there are fewer BB ATM's than most others, especially when it's raining or your outta cash or your barfine (and her twin sister) are hot to trot. Anyway, it started to de-laminate so when I went to get it replaced, they only had the 'old' ones and I was happy for that.