More details from developer about 20 year Thai visa/condo deal

[eddie61]

So they have problems selliing property again..Uh!...same 97...The farangs to the rescue,again.

And I thought I had seen everything.

In the case they could not sell, my humble opinion would be that it is because farangs in that area tend to be a bit on the cheap side.

Even more so since the baht has appreciated. It seems that many farangs cannot even afford cheap condos anymore.

I agree it really smacks the notion right out that the Thai Elite Card is actually for elite people when some tiny low-so dump studio qualifies for a free giveaway one.

What is astonishing is that some on this forum still consider the super low price of such a minuscule condo - together with the Thailand Elite Card promotion - horrendous.

I wonder if they would still be against the Thailand Elite program if the price was dropped from 3 miĺlion to 2 million.

Or maybe 1,5... ?

1?

Would 0.5 be still too expensive?

0.2?

How about if you simply don't like being dumped in the Thai definition of Elite, which is basically crooks with a large amount of smelly money....but some people like that, and the fawning respect that it brings.

Edited June 17, 2015 by eddie61

[ezzra]

The devil is in the details, what's in the fine print? what if the buyer decide to sell and move on?

what guarantee that this company or the elite card will be active in 5 or 10 years. etc. etc ?

[KIWIBATCH]

Land of scams....and this one of them........

[technologybytes]

What is interesting is that if this happens it will open the door to other developers doing similar deals. If you were looking to buy a condo anyway, it's a nice sweetener for the deal.

However, no developer can actually offer any visa, that's always at the whim of the Thai government and is subject to change with little or no notice.

[Soutpeel]

Land of scams....and this one of them........

I wouldn't be too quick to call it a scam, dubious marketing certainly, out and out scam No

[Soutpeel]

The devil is in the details, what's in the fine print? what if the buyer decide to sell and move on?

what guarantee that this company or the elite card will be active in 5 or 10 years. etc. etc ?

Well this is the key, what do the "legal" T&C's say and i dont mean the marketing BS, I mean the contract that's signed, those T&C's

As regards guarantees, there are no guarantees in life, there is no guarantee I will walk out side next week and not get hit by a bus

for the TE portion, all one can say is, its been in place more than 10 years, seen a few coups/changes of government and yes they have clipped some of the "benefits" but they have never reneged on the visa portion

so that counts for something as much as the TE naysayers like to piss on the program

[phantomfiddler]

I think I will go with the regular retirement visas, which for 20 years would cost one a meagre 38,000 Baht

[Soutpeel]

I think I will go with the regular retirement visas, which for 20 years would cost one a meagre 38,000 Baht

plus the 800k or 65k in the bank or pension in the bank of course...

so 16000000 for the 800k option or 15600000 for the monthly pension route

so it seems to me the condo/TE option is actually cheaper even for those retired, will leave them more money for Leo and their favourite Isaan teeraks to con out of them

[JOC]

I think I will go with the regular retirement visas, which for 20 years would cost one a meagre 38,000 Baht

plus the 800k or 65k in the bank or pension in the bank of course...

so 16000000 for the 800k option or 15600000 for the monthly pension route

so it seems to me the condo/TE option is actually cheaper even for those retired, will leave them more money for Leo and their favourite Isaan teeraks to con out of them

Come on Soutpeel, you are not that naive??

It might come as a surprise to you, but with the 800k option, it is not compulsory to spend all the money each year!! And even if it was, at least you would be the benefactor, whereas with the TE card the money goes straight into the corruption trough.

As for the last part of your post:

Edited June 17, 2015 by JOC

[stgrhe]

Unless the Police Order is updated with such a paragraph it cannot be regarded as legal.

[Mot Dang]

Wouldn't touch it with the proverbial barge pole.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

However some johnny-come-lately will probably fall for it. The "T" in Thailand does not stand for trust.

[kovaltech]

Thailand Elite still hasn't responded to my email asking for clarification on what they consider to be "property" (with regards to the Thailand Individual Membership for Property Co-Project - http://www.thailandelite.com/factsheet/Property%20Co-Project_Factsheet_English.pdf program option).

Somehow I don't think I'll ever actually get an answer any ways.

So according to this article, it looks like they are selling 2 million baht condos (their cheapest units) for 3 million and including the TE card (with it's 1 million baht membership fee) in the price. It also sounds like they have either agreed to pay the 20,000 baht annual fee or have made a deal with TE to have it waived (most likely it will be recouped through the condo maintenance fees).

(Remember - the "Thailand Individual Membership for Property Co-Project" option is only a 1 million baht membership fee.)

2 million baht for a 30 sqm studio condo plus 1 mil more for the TE card. (Add in whatever the monthly/yearly condo maintenance fees will be.)

Hmmmm, 2 bedroom house (128 sqm) on the Darkside - 1.5 mil. Throw in another 500k for the "Easy Access" TE card. Put the extra mil in the bank - should be able to earn enough interest to easily cover the 20k annual fee.

(Of course the difference is you probably can get the condo in your name, unlike the house, as long as the 49% rule hasn't been reached yet.)

full 20 year membership is 2mil, not 1. The easy access is only 1 5 year visa, and no annual fee.

Edit

The co project thing seems to only exist as a pdf on the website. It'll be interesting to know if someone has ever got one.

The full membership TE in the Co project ( 20 years ) is 1 million only.

The Project program works with more then 1 developer, its a select group, where as the developer we are talking about, is one off them.

And he is making big commercial with it...

[Soutpeel]

I think I will go with the regular retirement visas, which for 20 years would cost one a meagre 38,000 Baht

plus the 800k or 65k in the bank or pension in the bank of course...

so 16000000 for the 800k option or 15600000 for the monthly pension route

so it seems to me the condo/TE option is actually cheaper even for those retired, will leave them more money for Leo and their favourite Isaan teeraks to con out of them

Come on Soutpeel, you are not that naive??

It might come as a surprise to you, but with the 800k option, it is not compulsory to spend all the money each year!! And even if it was, at least you would be the benefactor, whereas with the TE card the money goes straight into the corruption trough.

As for the last part of your post:

oh dear and I always took you for someone with a sense of humour...

but lets assume you dont spend the 800k/yr your still have to "lock up" 800k in the bank therefore "phantom fiddlers' comment it only costs 38k is still wrong

but of course your asserting the TE money goes into the corruption trough, one supposes you can shows or prove it as I am sure the PM of Thailand would be very interested, considering he has given the undertaking to clamp down on corruption, and I am sure if you can show him the corrupt practices, sure there would be some gratuity in it for you...like a free TE card, which I sure you will refuse on moral grounds...

[little mary sunshine]

Anyone that gets suckered into this deserves to lose their money.

Immigration game plan can change at any time . The same is true

With attempting to circumvent the law by the legal loophole buying

In a company name. Loophole can be "plugged" Anytime by new

Government

[Kerryd]

The devil is in the details, what's in the fine print? what if the buyer decide to sell and move on?

what guarantee that this company or the elite card will be active in 5 or 10 years. etc. etc ?

Fine print indeed ! Buyer beware !

If the buyer decides to "move on" - "The visa will come as part of the purchase of a unit at Southpoint and owners can sell the unit and the visa together if they wish." (http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/06/16/more-information-developer-about-condo-visa-deal)

(Note however, that the Thai Elite website has a condition on the transfer of their "Thailand Individual Membership for Property Co-Project" option - "Membership transfer - One (1)-time transferable only to immediate family*** (***Immediate family refers to member’s legitimate parents, spouse and children.)" (http://www.thailandelite.com/factsheet/Property%20Co-Project_Factsheet_English.pdf)

It is possible that the developer has made an arrangement with Thai Elite to waive that condition, though I can't find a reference anywhere.

It is also a bit confusing as one of the conditions of the "Thailand Individual Membership for Property Co-Project" is that "The Applicant must purchase property". So if you "purchase property" and get the card, then sell the property, are you even allowed to keep the card ? According to the article I linked above (owners can sell the unit and the visa together if they wish) it sounds like you can sell the condo separately from the card.

As for the Thai Elite program itself, as others have noted it has been "on the chopping block" for 13 years now and despite never living up to it's projections doesn't seem to be any closer to being cancelled now or in the near future than it ever has. There is a guarantee though (of sorts). If the program is cancelled by the government:

1. In case of the termination pursuant to Clause2.5 (3) above, the Membership hereunder shall immediately become invalid and the Company shall refund the remaining Membership Fee (if any) to the Member, within thirty (30) days after the Card has been returned to the Company, less the following balances (if any) and costs:
   1. The Penalty Charge and/or outstanding fees; and
   2. The costs of Privileges which has been used by the Member during the validity of Membership.

This does appear to be a viable option for some people. I myself would have possibly interested in this 10 years ago, when I was working offshore and didn't qualify (due to age) for the Non-O(A) visa. I was tired of living out of my suitcase in hotel rooms every trip, and facing 2-3 days of overstay, 3-4 times a year because of my work/holiday schedule. I ended up renting a cheap apartment for convenience sake, and then later on a small house (still had the overstay issues though). A cheap condo that I could resell later on (and maybe even make a profit on) along with the (renewable) 5 year, multi-entry Visa ? Yeah, I would have seriously considered that (as long as it was below the 7th floor of the building as well).

[Soutpeel]

Anyone that gets suckered into this deserves to lose their money.

Immigration game plan can change at any time . The same is true

With attempting to circumvent the law by the legal loophole buying

In a company name. Loophole can be "plugged" Anytime by new

Government

of course they can, but why single out this aspect ?....immigration could just as easy change the retirement requirements to having THB 2.0 million the bank instead of the 800k, or do away with retirement all together, they could limit the number of visa Waivers in a year or cap the number of days a "tourist" can spend in country, restrict Ed visa's to only those who study at a government accredited institution

There are some many things they can change in the blink of eye

[Time Traveller]

Unless the Police Order is updated with such a paragraph it cannot be regarded as legal.

Of course it's not legal. But the developer has got to sell their tiny jail cell like apartments and foreign criminals need somewhere that will let them hide out for a couple of decades. It's a match made in Thailand.

[VINCENT2012]

yeah money , money....

company has negotiated the package with Thailand Elite, which is fully owned by the Tourism Authority of Thailand

do i understand well ? read again...!

the other way round would be : TAT ownes the elite... .forget it...

[IamNoone88]

I have an annual Business visa cost and mutiple entries of $190 x 4 = $760. For 20 years, in todays money, 20 x $760.00 = $15,200 or THB 511,000.

No difference really and besides, paying in full for something for 20 years, when I may not even be around or Thailand Elite may not be around ..... and over time visa rules may have changed for the better ..........

Makes no sense and not much of an incentive. Marketing hype as always.

[Christie Paul]

The Thai property market, in particular condos, is beginning to wheeze as it struggles uphill against a world wide economic downturn and uninspired and poorly skilled economic leadership.

The program being discussed here, far from being attractive to smart money, will only serve to confirm that both the property market and the Immigration and retirement business model is on the verge of collapse.

It's announcement serves as a clarion call, more like the sound of a starters gun.....to run away.

[JimSiam]

It seems the 500k easy pass isn't transferable compared to the top level full membership http://www.thailandelite.com/glimpse.php

[newnative]

Unless you are under 50 or super-duper rich I don't see any compelling reason to use this Elite visa. I just did my 1 year retirement renewal at Jomtien and it was easy. I don't mind doing it once a year.

[Guest]

I have an annual Business visa cost and mutiple entries of $190 x 4 = $760. For 20 years, in todays money, 20 x $760.00 = $15,200 or THB 511,000.

No difference really and besides, paying in full for something for 20 years, when I may not even be around or Thailand Elite may not be around ..... and over time visa rules may have changed for the better ..........

Makes no sense and not much of an incentive. Marketing hype as always.

Sir, kudos to you on your solution .. just so you understand how smart you really are... (4 times smarter)

This card requires ... "initial down payment fee of two million Baht followed by a 20,000 Baht annual fee over a 20-year validity period."

[Soutpeel]

Unless you are under 50 or super-duper rich I don't see any compelling reason to use this Elite visa. I just did my 1 year retirement renewal at Jomtien and it was easy. I don't mind doing it once a year.

3.5 million to get into this scheme is hardly super duper rich ......if they had said you had to buy a condo costing 20 million then may agree with you, but still not super duper rich....

[JonnyF]

This seems like a great deal for people who trust the various Thai governments/Juntas to honor each others promises for the next 20 years. Given the current situation, what could possibly go wrong?

Some predict the end of the Thailand Elite program... since 13 years.

Some others enjoy the super convenient Thailand Elite long term visa... since 13 years.

Trust or not trust...

Some don't trust the government and still hesitate to become Thailand Elite members.

Some others may not fully trust the government, but became members a long time ago... and they enjoy trouble free long stays in Thailand since over a decade.

Up to you to worry or not

(Me, a happy Thailand Elite member since 12 years).

(Guys, stop worrying so much and go for it!).

(If you have the money, of course).

Not really difficult to get a visa for most people. I have a trouble free (and free of charge) stay thanks to my work permit and visa. Others get married, others are over 50.

I don't predict the end of the Thailand Elite scheme, but the benefits have been greatly reduced already. Yes, they kept the visa part (which I don't need anyway) so I would have been pretty annoyed had I shelled out the money. What benefits do you get other than the visa now?

Just the annual interest on the money spent on an Elite card would pay for an annual visa for most people. And if things get messy in the future that unspent capital can be spent on relocating somewhere a bit more stable. A bit of hedging if you like...

Nobody can predict the future and I'm certainly not going to try, but it's prudent to accept the possibility that there could be some fairly serious instability in Thailand in the next decade or two given the current factors. So for me, it wouldn't be the ideal time to invest 3 million baht or whatever in an overpriced shoebox condo in Pattaya and a 20 year promise of a visa. But each to their own.

[Anthony5]

It's hard to imagine how people would consider retirement to LOS and living the rest of their lives in a 30 square metre walk in cupboard as a great retirement.

I wonder how high the balcony rails are on this development ...

living in 30 square meters, one suspects they don't need a swimming pool but lots of safety nets to catch the punters , but then again considering the location it would be a fall with a view

Maybe no rails at all...

At that price one can't expect much more than a few thin walls

Hopefully it comes with a Thailand Elite card, a 5 years (3x) renewable visa, and 1 year extendable entry stamps... I guess all the good value is in the card.

Really?

In my country in Europe, where build materials, build quality and labor costs are a multiple from Thailand, I can buy a 30m² apartment for that price. So these condos are WAY overpriced.

[Guest]

The Thai property market, in particular condos, is beginning to wheeze as it struggles uphill against a world wide economic downturn and uninspired and poorly skilled economic leadership.

The program being discussed here, far from being attractive to smart money, will only serve to confirm that both the property market and the Immigration and retirement business model is on the verge of collapse.

It's announcement serves as a clarion call, more like the sound of a starters gun.....to run away.

Yes, let's see if we understand this ... here is your chance to contribute funds today., to an off plan development, and receive a "benefit" that you could simply go out and buy today ... no strings attached.

The reason i am writing this reply is to agree .. it smells like "We are running out of money and may not complete this project"

Anyone interested in "getting something for nothing" in this deal, please meet me at my (temporary) office at the "Free Lunch Cafe") and for a nominal fee, i will explain help you sober up, and pry those rose colored glasses off your face.

It is simply economic reality, if you know first hand, as i do .. that Thailand Elite (Privilege) does ... not... discount ... or allow financing of its product.

Therefore it leaves two ugly scenarios.

(1) The devleoper is so close to rolling over, he actually IS giving you the right to a very small condo in exchange for some much needed operating capital.

(2) Some people can not solve this equation: (Cost of Condo) + (Cost of Card) = Sale Price

See you at the Free Lunch Cafe .. but PLEASE bring folding money .... There is no free lunch.

[Guest]

It's hard to imagine how people would consider retirement to LOS and living the rest of their lives in a 30 square metre walk in cupboard as a great retirement.

I wonder how high the balcony rails are on this development ...

living in 30 square meters, one suspects they don't need a swimming pool but lots of safety nets to catch the punters , but then again considering the location it would be a fall with a view

Maybe no rails at all...

At that price one can't expect much more than a few thin walls

Hopefully it comes with a Thailand Elite card, a 5 years (3x) renewable visa, and 1 year extendable entry stamps... I guess all the good value is in the card.

Really?

In my country in Europe, where build materials, build quality and labor costs are a multiple from Thailand, I can buy a 30m² apartment for that price. So these condos are WAY overpriced.

I so tire of these "in my country" comparisons without any details. What are we comparing to?

here is one for you, so you get the idea...

For the same money I can buy 50 square kilometers of Dearth Valley in the USA.

See how silly this is?

Euope is a big place .. now tell us you can get the same condo on the Mediterranean, walking distance to beach ... for that .. and you have our full attention.

[Anthony5]

I think I will go with the regular retirement visas, which for 20 years would cost one a meagre 38,000 Baht

plus the 800k or 65k in the bank or pension in the bank of course...

so 16000000 for the 800k option or 15600000 for the monthly pension route

so it seems to me the condo/TE option is actually cheaper even for those retired, will leave them more money for Leo and their favourite Isaan teeraks to con out of them

Come on Soutpeel, you are not that naive??

It might come as a surprise to you, but with the 800k option, it is not compulsory to spend all the money each year!! And even if it was, at least you would be the benefactor, whereas with the TE card the money goes straight into the corruption trough.

As for the last part of your post:

oh dear and I always took you for someone with a sense of humour...

but lets assume you dont spend the 800k/yr your still have to "lock up" 800k in the bank therefore "phantom fiddlers' comment it only costs 38k is still wrong

but of course your asserting the TE money goes into the corruption trough, one supposes you can shows or prove it as I am sure the PM of Thailand would be very interested, considering he has given the undertaking to clamp down on corruption, and I am sure if you can show him the corrupt practices, sure there would be some gratuity in it for you...like a free TE card, which I sure you will refuse on moral grounds...

So a Elite visa comes with all living expenses paid for?

800K isn't locked up, you only need to keep your account balanced 3 months before renewal, but you are free to use it as you like.

[gerry1011]

It may disturb a bit the feelings of the Thailand Elite haters, who call Thailand Elite a scam, and like to constantly repeat that the program may be cancelled any day...

But, as a Thailand Elite member, I can tell you that the visa attached to the membership is... just a dream.

And the program is already 13 years old.

And it is a fact that a few thousand members enjoy easy long term visas, some since 13 years. Happily.

And, for the worried ones, the program did already survived 2 coups.

And there are more and more members joining each day...

So, if you need a condo, and that the purchase of that condo comes together with a full 20 years Thailand Elite membership... It's a great promotion

Edited June 17, 2015 by gerry1011