Thai govt seeks to extradite lese majeste suspect from New Zealand

[baboon]

OK, it is just getting boring now !

To the poster who has written every comment on this topic, and perhaps a few others as well, flaming Robby and condemning the government for the LM laws, enough is enough !

Well at least it seems like all the flames and monotonous condemnations of the LM laws were penned by the one person or came out of the one book.

If so, you must be as busy as a Beirut bricklayer, posting that many comments.

Cannot see the point myself, bagging the present government for a law that has stood since 1908, as if they had created it.

Enough is not enough by a long way, given the abuse of this law by the current administration to cow their opponents into silence. The more people raise their voices against this travesty, the better.

[brucec64]

Assuming this document is still up-to-date, the OAG may want to read it carefully.

It starts with

"New Zealand extradition law allows New Zealand to extradite wanted persons to any country, regardless of whether a formal extradition treaty exits or not. New Zealand extradition law is, however, complex and New Zealand judges are strict in ensuring that it is precisely followed.

This means that while New Zealand can, in principle, extradite to any country, the process is complicated and foreign governments should liaise with the New Zealand authorities before filing a request for extradition. Current contact details are included at the end of this paper."

http://www.mfat.govt.nz/downloads/treaties-and-international-law/Extradition-Act-summary.pdf

More info here:

http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/06-International-Courts-and-Tribunals/6-Extradition.php

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1999/0055/latest/whole.html#DLM25681

The relavant section of the New Zealand Extradition Act is:

(2) The condition referred to in subsection (1)(a) is that if the conduct of the person constituting the offence in relation to the extradition country, or equivalent conduct, had occurred within the jurisdiction of New Zealand at the relevant time it would, if proved, have constituted an offence punishable under the law of New Zealand for which the maximum penalty is imprisonment for not less than 12 months or any more severe penalty.

Since LM is not an offence under New Zealand law, extraditon would most likely not be successful. This applies to most western countries, and is why other charges, such as weapon charges, are bundled in the extradition request, so that there an applicable Western law.

This is for domestic consumption only.

[tajtom]

Oh MR Attorney General Sir

Where is your lippy and have you had your manicure old son....

Please give us a rest with your monarchy laws. What you should do is ask the dear majesty for some currency to improve the starving Thais and children of the country. You should also maybe arrest the police in place of a young boy who had expressed his anger in a time of confusion and kaos.

In democracy people have the right to express there views

Anyway they will not deport him and you are only presenting a immature and laughable proposition.

There is a high heel sale in NANA, wheres the Thainess LOL

[dageurreotype]

Los still in its own little world where they are so relevant and the world jumps when they speak.

Remember after the coup when it was announced they would contact various countries to have a couple of dozen LM suspects sent back to face charges ?

Nothing more was heard so either it was decided locally it was a non starter or the countries concerned made it clear they weren't interested. Of course that failure could never be reported.

I'm going with the 'for domestic consumption only' argument. If you heard some of the crap coming out of General P's mouth and passed on to me by my credulous Thai neighbour, the junta are presuming their Thai audience will lap this up. Given the blanket of silence over the country now, it's difficult to guess as to what extent. But there are critics, they whisper out of the sides of their mouths ..

Edited June 17, 2015 by dageurreotype

[soalbundy]

Should be extradited to face charges of wearing a cap like a retard.

and for having a wimpy moustache.

[soalbundy]

Assuming this document is still up-to-date, the OAG may want to read it carefully.

It starts with

"New Zealand extradition law allows New Zealand to extradite wanted persons to any country, regardless of whether a formal extradition treaty exits or not. New Zealand extradition law is, however, complex and New Zealand judges are strict in ensuring that it is precisely followed.

This means that while New Zealand can, in principle, extradite to any country, the process is complicated and foreign governments should liaise with the New Zealand authorities before filing a request for extradition. Current contact details are included at the end of this paper."

http://www.mfat.govt.nz/downloads/treaties-and-international-law/Extradition-Act-summary.pdf

More info here:

http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/06-International-Courts-and-Tribunals/6-Extradition.php

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1999/0055/latest/whole.html#DLM25681

The relavant section of the New Zealand Extradition Act is:

(2) The condition referred to in subsection (1)(a) is that if the conduct of the person constituting the offence in relation to the extradition country, or equivalent conduct, had occurred within the jurisdiction of New Zealand at the relevant time it would, if proved, have constituted an offence punishable under the law of New Zealand for which the maximum penalty is imprisonment for not less than 12 months or any more severe penalty.

Since LM is not an offence under New Zealand law, extraditon would most likely not be successful. This applies to most western countries, and is why other charges, such as weapon charges, are bundled in the extradition request, so that there an applicable Western law.

This is for domestic consumption only.

Correct, throw in as many charges as possible in the hope that they will be taken seriously but even then, if the weapons charges stuck, he would only be extradited to be tried on that charge and any LM charge would have to be dropped as part of the deal, so no hope there either.

[tx22cb]

You're missing the point.

The Thai Govt's Office of Attorney General are not stupid - they are merely angling for a "fact-finding" junket to NZ ..... a bit like the Bangkok Governor's expense-paid trip to the Netherlands etc

[mikemac]

OK, it is just getting boring now !

To the poster who has written every comment on this topic, and perhaps a few others as well, flaming Robby and condemning the government for the LM laws, enough is enough !

Well at least it seems like all the flames and monotonous condemnations of the LM laws were penned by the one person or came out of the one book.

If so, you must be as busy as a Beirut bricklayer, posting that many comments.

Cannot see the point myself, bagging the present government for a law that has stood since 1908, as if they had created it.

How about getting some new material ? Get original for a change.

Anyway, the whole thing is a waste of time, because the Kiwis will not let go of this idiot if they don't want to.

That's if the Bledisloe Cup is anything to go by.

The reason people are bagging on Prayuths lot are obvious mate, they are pursuing 112 articles and 112 convictions and sentencing has more than doubled since they "seized power"

What agenda do they have about such cases? would their time not be better spent pursuing criminals who murder, rape and steal?

What's to be gained by jailing a person through the military courts for the minimum of 15 years, it's almost like some sort of perversion?

If Thailand and the current lot of constitution writers and enforcers really wanted to win over the people, they'd abolish 112 and down grade the severity of sentencing.

Fatty, you are preaching to the converted. For some reason you missed the whole point of my post.

I know why people are condemning the government, that is not the issue.

It is the fact that every post sounds like it came from the same pen, out of the same book. Don't these posters read the entire topic like I do ?

My argument is not to do with the subject, just the way it is delivered. Read every post in this topic and tell me I am wrong.

And Baboon, you are starting to sound like a broken record. Borrrrrrrrring !

[DM07]

OK, it is just getting boring now !

To the poster who has written every comment on this topic, and perhaps a few others as well, flaming Robby and condemning the government for the LM laws, enough is enough !

Well at least it seems like all the flames and monotonous condemnations of the LM laws were penned by the one person or came out of the one book.

If so, you must be as busy as a Beirut bricklayer, posting that many comments.

Cannot see the point myself, bagging the present government for a law that has stood since 1908, as if they had created it.

How about getting some new material ? Get original for a change.

Anyway, the whole thing is a waste of time, because the Kiwis will not let go of this idiot if they don't want to.

That's if the Bledisloe Cup is anything to go by.

You are such a hoot!

[ttthailand]

If he is a NZ citizen there is little chance they will send him back to Thailand to face these charges. In NZ all men and women are equal and don't have to pay homage to anyone.

[sitti]

Forget about this little nobody. Extradite Thaksin, and make him face justice.

[lostoday]

If he is a NZ citizen there is little chance they will send him back to Thailand to face these charges. In NZ all men and women are equal and don't have to pay homage to anyone.

I'm guessing you have never been married to a NZ woman.

[Mad Dog]

Forget about this little nobody. Extradite Thaksin, and make him face justice.

Problem is he's not a nobody. He's the ex-princess Srirasmi's brother. No-one wonder how he got an NZ passport so quickly?

Edited June 17, 2015 by Mad Dog

[NanLaew]

You're missing the point.

The Thai Govt's Office of Attorney General are not stupid - they are merely angling for a "fact-finding" junket to NZ ..... a bit like the Bangkok Governor's expense-paid trip to the Netherlands etc

Since it is winter time down there and NZ is (more) miserable than it normally is, good luck to them. Maybe they should have paid attention in Geography after all.

[NanLaew]

Forget about this little nobody. Extradite Thaksin, and make him face justice.

Problem is he's not a nobody. He's the ex-princess Srirasmi's brother. No-one wonder how he got an NZ passport so quickly?

He is? I would have thought that would have made him a double-nobody but I guess that all depends on how the 'Thai Government' wants to wield the LM stick in this instance.

Sorry sitti, it does sounds like this one is an axe grind and bugger all else, so your most reviled one in exile in Dubai isn't in this dog fight.

[glenmohr]

If he is a NZ citizen there is little chance they will send him back to Thailand to face these charges. In NZ all men and women are equal and don't have to pay homage to anyone.

I'm guessing you have never been married to a NZ woman.

Brilliant. When I did marry one I was able to sell, for good money, my entire collection of encyclopedias.

[glenmohr]

You're missing the point.

The Thai Govt's Office of Attorney General are not stupid - they are merely angling for a "fact-finding" junket to NZ ..... a bit like the Bangkok Governor's expense-paid trip to the Netherlands etc

Since it is winter time down there and NZ is (more) miserable than it normally is, good luck to them. Maybe they should have paid attention in Geography after all.

With all the extra snow around the skiing will be good in NZ this season

[Artisi]

If he doesn't already have nz citizenship then this case should get it for him as he will now be able to claim asylum in nz.

Citizenship and asylum are two completely different animals with very little connection, plus being given asylum doesn't necessarily lead to citizenship.

[nithisa78]

Pure stupidity to bring this case back in the limelight!!

Trying to prove, that they are faithful pawns??

You are correct.It is myopia of the first order for all the reasons previously rehearsed at length on this forum.

There is an interesting aspect however, namely the motivation (some would say the warped psychology) of those who pressed for action with the NZ Government.They are not presumably unintelligent so already know the request is dead in the water, and will further embarrass the country.So why precisely have they gone down this cul de sac?

I don't think the concern is so much about what these people express. It is more about what it might provoke in a total loose cannon who may be inspired by the speakers unhappiness and inability to find meaning in their lives. It is displeasing to listen to the big mouths who are pretty much just big mouths. Little or nothing else.

A faithful pawn is a good pawn. Faith is good.

Edited June 17, 2015 by nithisa78

[Roadman]

Sometimes justice is served out of court and in the case of Eakapop that is being played out. The Thai government should let it go as the NZ government is not going to extradite him on LM charges which are not recognised in this country when there is no equivalent charges. They should have pursued him on inciting violence charges which they would have had a good chance at with assistant from the NZ thai community but to late now as the LM charges cards have already been played

As soon as he opened his stupid little mouth on Facebook he outcast himself from the main NZ thai community. There have been several petitions and individual letters to the Honorable Michael Woodhouse (then Minister of Immigration) requesting the removal of Eakapop from New Zealand. They have ranged from one of over 10,000 world wide signatures which carries little sway to a sovereign state country, but more importantly one of when I signed it on the inciting violence charge (as much as it grates me that this piece of crap has a free ride into my country; on the LM charge that part I have no beef with him over) over 1200 signatures from the Thai Auckland community requesting his removal on charges of inciting violence and being loyal thai's to His Most Revered Highness also citing LM charges which they can not seem to refrain themselves from, Buddha bless them. Included in that 1200 signatures were most prominent thai's in the Auckland and upper North Island community. I am also aware of individual letters to the Minister from thais with legal backgrounds from within the Auckland community. Short of it is even the Thai community does not want him here and he is not welcome within the greater thai NZ community so sometimes one sucks it up and accepts that justice is being served that he can no longer return to his homeland and he is stuck in the deep south freezing his ass off far removed from his previous but now NZ countrypersons who do not like him. I guess as soon as he pass's the five(?) years stand down then his free ride to Aussie will be appealing.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Roadman

[The Deerhunter]

I mean they act as if it was a real crime with a real victim who actually cared. I do not know what he said but unless it was plausible threats of real violence than it would likely be like water off a duck's back to most of the people concerned. Most but not every Thai loves the institution and individuals concerned and every one knows that. It is time this anachronistic law was put to bed.

Which is something His Majesty has requested in the past, to no avail.

Yes I know. He pardons most of them.

[pacovl46]

But for some reason, they are unable to extradite from Singapore.

Funny that, isn't it.

What's funny about it? Thailand has an extradition treaty with NZ, but not with Singapore. Case closed.

[pacovl46]

If he doesn't already have nz citizenship then this case should get it for him as he will now be able to claim asylum in nz.

Asylum?! On what grounds? The only reason he is "discriminated" against his political view is because he broke the law on purpose, and not because of his political view in general. That doesn't justify political asylum whatsoever. Nonetheless, I don't think the extradition is gonna fly, though, because he's a NZ citizen now and LM probably won't be enough to allow to see him going to jail for up to 30 years or whatever the maximum penalty in Thailand for LM is.

[ggt]

Meanwhile, another motorcycle rider gunned down in Southern Thailand...just another day in paradise...but be very afraid...of what you say...

[Acharn]

Pure stupidity to bring this case back in the limelight!!

Trying to prove, that they are faithful pawns??

You are correct.It is myopia of the first order for all the reasons previously rehearsed at length on this forum.

There is an interesting aspect however, namely the motivation (some would say the warped psychology) of those who pressed for action with the NZ Government.They are not presumably unintelligent so already know the request is dead in the water, and will further embarrass the country.So why precisely have they gone down this cul de sac?

So why precisely have they gone down this cul de sac?

Every chance your opinion is correct Jayboy.

Surely the Thai authorities would be familiar, or made themselves familiar, with the important clause in the New Zealand Extradition Act which specifies "An extraditable offence involves conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand..."

The operative words are "So why precisely have they gone down this cul de sac?" Presumably some member of the Royal Household Office does not know about extradition law and demanded that "something must be done." After all, the prosecutors don't care if they're wasting their time on this. They're getting their salaries just the same.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Acharn

[rubl]

Every chance your opinion is correct Jayboy.

Surely the Thai authorities would be familiar, or made themselves familiar, with the important clause in the New Zealand Extradition Act which specifies "An extraditable offence involves conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand..."

Since we don't know what exactly was said and posting here what was said would be an LM offence in itself (plus a ban of course), it is difficult to say whether or not the 'offence' would be seen as such in NZ. If the offence came close to preaching revolution with a wee bit of red-shirt 'democratic' violence, the charge might stick in NZ.

It doesn't make any difference.The New Zealand government would not recognise the alleged offence anymore than it recognises voodoo or any other primitive behaviour.

Although the topic is a red-shirt I don't think you should go down to voodoo and other primitive behaviour. Neither I nor you (I assume) know the details of what the fugitive has said. A lot would be deemed no reason to extradite, some things would be though. If the red-shirt was threatening with violence and bloodshed the NZ government might consider extraditing a good thing. Keep in mind that after every new terror attack by anyone, even if totally unrelated, governments are under pressure regarding asylum and extradition.

[Jaggg88]

I sincerely hope N.Z. has the necessary balls to tell this regime where they can stick their archaic and repressive law......................

Some of the LM is something that would be highly illegal in every country....not only if it is about the King/President....I let it to your imagination what that might be.

But I have no idea what it was in this case. Other cases are known...

Not in my home country.

In the US, you can insult the head of State (the President) in the most explicit terms, 24 hours a day.

The repercussion will be that your friends may abandon you as a "whack job"; but there is no law against it as long as you do not make threats of violence.

Fortunately there is absolutely no comparison between Barack Obama and the most loved man in this country.

The Thais have their laws and the United States and United Kingdom etc, have theirs. End of.

But there is a comparison with Queen Elizabeth 2 who is head of state for UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other commonwealth countries but whose subjects are free to criticize or say how they feel about her without any fear of legal retribution. In fact they have regular debates about whether she should remain as head of state - this is called democracy and freedom of speech, something I think every world citizen should be entitled.

[jayboy]

Every chance your opinion is correct Jayboy.

Surely the Thai authorities would be familiar, or made themselves familiar, with the important clause in the New Zealand Extradition Act which specifies "An extraditable offence involves conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand..."

Since we don't know what exactly was said and posting here what was said would be an LM offence in itself (plus a ban of course), it is difficult to say whether or not the 'offence' would be seen as such in NZ. If the offence came close to preaching revolution with a wee bit of red-shirt 'democratic' violence, the charge might stick in NZ.

It doesn't make any difference.The New Zealand government would not recognise the alleged offence anymore than it recognises voodoo or any other primitive behaviour.

Although the topic is a red-shirt I don't think you should go down to voodoo and other primitive behaviour. Neither I nor you (I assume) know the details of what the fugitive has said. A lot would be deemed no reason to extradite, some things would be though. If the red-shirt was threatening with violence and bloodshed the NZ government might consider extraditing a good thing. Keep in mind that after every new terror attack by anyone, even if totally unrelated, governments are under pressure regarding asylum and extradition.

At the risk of repeating myself it makes no difference what was said because free speech is respected in NZ.

Because of Thailand's undemocratic, repressive and vengeful government even a properly documented case citing terrorism would run into difficulties.

As to violence and bloodshed, since the Thai army has been the main exponent I agree there is a possible albeit remote risk of international arrest for the senior officers involved.

[Jimbolai]

I sincerely hope N.Z. has the necessary balls to tell this regime where they can stick their archaic and repressive law......................

Some of the LM is something that would be highly illegal in every country....not only if it is about the King/President....I let it to your imagination what that might be.

But I have no idea what it was in this case. Other cases are known...

Not in my home country.

In the US, you can insult the head of State (the President) in the most explicit terms, 24 hours a day.

The repercussion will be that your friends may abandon you as a "whack job"; but there is no law against it as long as you do not make threats of violence.

My friends do not feel that I am a wack job for calling obummer a wackjob. Obummer is the wackjob. Everyone knows that by now.

[lostoday]

Every chance your opinion is correct Jayboy.

Surely the Thai authorities would be familiar, or made themselves familiar, with the important clause in the New Zealand Extradition Act which specifies "An extraditable offence involves conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand..."

Since we don't know what exactly was said and posting here what was said would be an LM offence in itself (plus a ban of course), it is difficult to say whether or not the 'offence' would be seen as such in NZ. If the offence came close to preaching revolution with a wee bit of red-shirt 'democratic' violence, the charge might stick in NZ.

It doesn't make any difference.The New Zealand government would not recognise the alleged offence anymore than it recognises voodoo or any other primitive behaviour.

Although the topic is a red-shirt I don't think you should go down to voodoo and other primitive behaviour. Neither I nor you (I assume) know the details of what the fugitive has said. A lot would be deemed no reason to extradite, some things would be though. If the red-shirt was threatening with violence and bloodshed the NZ government might consider extraditing a good thing. Keep in mind that after every new terror attack by anyone, even if totally unrelated, governments are under pressure regarding asylum and extradition.

Your post is one sided and opinionated with no evidence. Ya I know you said we don't know the details and then proceeded to write, "If the red-shirt was threatening with violence and bloodshed the NZ government might consider extraditing a good thing. Keep in mind that after every new terror attack by anyone, even if totally unrelated, governments are under pressure regarding asylum and extradition."

No accusations there eh?