How Thailand Perceives the Massive Influx of Digital Nomads

[BuaBS]

Why all this talk about taxes ? You're in Thailand , if you shut up about what you do , no need to pay taxes here or in your home country. ( and get payed in a Hong Kong account )

[Soutpeel]

but it if spurs changes that allow digital nomads to pay taxes and stay in Thailand legitimately, then wonderful.

They can do all that now if they want...so don't see your point

[Soutpeel]

Why all this talk about taxes ? You're in Thailand , if you shut up about what you do , no need to pay taxes here or in your home country. ( and get payed in a Hong Kong account )

Yeah why not...just keep on working illegally, that's the spirit, blag your ed Visa or your visa runs, keep eating your mamma noodles an living in a "room"

[sfokevin]

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

I'm from the US and the IRS allows one a credit for any taxes paid to a foreign country... I assume most countries are the same - so no double taxation...

As for the rate being too low... You may be right... It is more of a token that shows they are contributing to Thai society in general...

And for the Drivers license - I added that at the last minute as most people in this group will most likely get/rent a motorbike and it's a good idea to understand and comply with Thai law as a good citizen... (Even though the Thais don't)

[flyingdoc]

What is the logic for suggesting D.N's have a different tax rate if working in Thailand?

[sfokevin]

Why all this talk about taxes ? You're in Thailand , if you shut up about what you do , no need to pay taxes here or in your home country. ( and get payed in a Hong Kong account )

Yeah why not...just keep on working illegally, that's the spirit, blag your ed Visa or your visa runs, keep eating your mamma noodles an living in a "room"

Yeah... And while your at it you can buy a few unemployed Burmese slaves and teach them coding to give you more Leo time!...

[rwdrwdrwd]

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

I'm from the US and the IRS allows one a credit for any taxes paid to a foreign country... I assume most countries are the same - so no double taxation...

Assumption is wrong - many countries do not tax offshore income (ie not sourced from country of origin) of non resident citizens whatsoever - also no reporting requirements.

Edited June 23, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[robblok]

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

I'm from the US and the IRS allows one a credit for any taxes paid to a foreign country... I assume most countries are the same - so no double taxation...

As for the rate being too low... You may be right... It is more of a token that shows they are contributing to Thai society in general...

And for the Drivers license - I added that at the last minute as most people in this group will most likely get/rent a motorbike and it's a good idea to understand and comply with Thai law as a good citizen... (Even though the Thais don't)

Mea culpa on the taxes as I looked how it was done in my country not the USA.

The license, is a bit strange one but I got 2 do i get a discount now. I don't understand people who drive here on their countries license (illegal after a certain amount of time) or don't even have one.

I don't see digital nomads being worse with that as others just stupid people drive without a valid license.

[Soutpeel]

I'm from the US and the IRS allows one a credit for any taxes paid to a foreign country... I assume most countries are the same - so no double taxation...

And what happens once your beyond your oversea's allowance, and the tax you paid (tax rate) is lower, than what you would have paid in the US on the same money ?, given you have to submit a tax return every year do they want the difference off you ?

So if you were working here and you paid say 15% to the Thai tax man, and on the same money it would have been 25%, does the IRS coming looking for the additional 10% off you ? (above and beyond your overseas allowance of course)

I am asking because I don't know in the case of the US

[Soutpeel]

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

I'm from the US and the IRS allows one a credit for any taxes paid to a foreign country... I assume most countries are the same - so no double taxation...

Assumption is wrong - most countries do not tax offshore income (ie not sourced from country of origin) of non resident citizens whatsoever - also no reporting requirements.

and there's the kicker...being declared Non-resident for tax purposes, if one hasn't been declared or maintains a presence in your home country, they can come after you

[Soutpeel]

I don't see digital nomads being worse with that as others just stupid people drive without a valid license.

How many farang's are demanding a long term visa or "special" privillages to reside in Thailand just because they have a Thai DL ?

[robblok]

I don't see digital nomads being worse with that as others just stupid people drive without a valid license.

How many farang's are demanding a long term visa or "special" privillages to reside in Thailand just because they have a Thai DL ?

No idea did you do a headcount if so let me know the result.

I just think that people who operate cars / motorbikes without a valid license are idiots. That includes the ones that are too lazy and keep using their old country license.

[rwdrwdrwd]

You obviously have no idea bout taxation. Because if it taxed here and you live here your home country has nothing to do with it. That would mean double taxation.

The other requirements seem all nice.

I'm from the US and the IRS allows one a credit for any taxes paid to a foreign country... I assume most countries are the same - so no double taxation...

Assumption is wrong - most countries do not tax offshore income (ie not sourced from country of origin) of non resident citizens whatsoever - also no reporting requirements.

and there's the kicker...being declared Non-resident for tax purposes, if one hasn't been declared or maintains a presence in your home country, they can come after you

I did personally, via P85, but it's not absolutely necessarily - it's quite easy to qualify regardless of anything else under the 'automatic overseas test' - simply staying out for an entire tax year does it.

http://taxaid.org.uk/guides/information/special-groups-carers-students-migrant-workers-and-moving-abroad/migrant-workernew-to-the-uk/the-statutory-residence-test-the-rules-from-6-april-2013/the-automatic-overseas-test

Doing absolutely nothing but staying out for 365 (349 in fact) days in a a tax year means non tax resident for that tax year, regardless of what ties to the UK, or lack of ties to anywhere else, exist.

Edited June 23, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[ggt]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

If you are 20 or more lbs over weight...you are still a sex-pat...

[WorkingTourist]

The documentary equates digital nomads with entrepreneurs. IMHO many are just digital snake oil salesmen.

They will push their ebooks, do affiliate marketing for whatever they can make a buck on, like questionable drugs, they won’t hesitate to send out massive amounts of spam, and the guy behind the “live in Thailand” clip shown in the video has even admitted to scamming tourists.

Chiang Mai do not need these people!

[jagfx]

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't CM Immigration round up a few digital nomads earlier this year or late last year from one of their co-working spaces (Punspace?) and released them without charge, and later followed up with a statement allowing them to continue working like this. I think the Thai authorities just can't quite wrap their heads around the whole concept...

[robblok]

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't CM Immigration round up a few digital nomads earlier this year or late last year from one of their co-working spaces (Punspace?) and released them without charge, and later followed up with a statement allowing them to continue working like this. I think the Thai authorities just can't quite wrap their heads around the whole concept...

I did read about them getting arrested, however I did not read that they were released and allowed to work again.

The people here on this forum often use that example to show the government is looking for digital nomads.

Love to see the extra information you have as that would be interesting.

It would be in line with what many people say about not competing with Thais then there is no problem.

Anyway all I read was they got arrested.. never the follow-up.

[rwdrwdrwd]

They were all released without charge the same day, couple were fined for not having passports on them. No follow up news on the matter.

@WorkingTourist There are plenty of people doing perfectly normal activities remotely, marketers, programmers and designers etc. Can't paint everyone with the same brush because of a few bad apples.

Edited June 23, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[robblok]

They were all released without charge the same day, couple were fined for not having passports on them. No follow up news on the matter.

Seriously ? Wow did not expect that.

So seems the government does not care about digital nomads that much, at least a lot less as some Thavisa members.

It was either too much trouble to go after them or the fact that there was no competition with Thais made them decide not to do it.

Seems they did not care enough to make an example out of it and deport them.

[squarethecircle]

The whole video is mostly irrelevant. So-called sexpats IME make their cash abroad, either on oil rigs or as a career worker. Really not a bad way to spend retirement either, in a tropical paradise surrounded by fine young babes.

But the so-called "digital nomads/laptop army" I've come across aren't like this. They want to build some online business so they take advantage of the convenient living in Thailand or other countries. They're probably doing more to contribute to people's lives than their classmates who work in an office cubicle. I suggest you can listen to Tropical MBA, a podcast by some successful "digital nomads", that gives a better idea of the positive side of it.

[timmyp]

but it if spurs changes that allow digital nomads to pay taxes and stay in Thailand legitimately, then wonderful.

They can do all that now if they want...so don't see your point

They mentioned this in the video like it was possible. I'm sorry, but I don't know about this change?

Of course it wouldn't apply to me, because I would never dream of freelancing without the proper visa, but I think my friend would very much like to know.

There's a visa now that digital nomads can apply for? And that visa will require them to pay taxes?

[squarethecircle]

They were all released without charge the same day, couple were fined for not having passports on them. No follow up news on the matter.

Seriously ? Wow did not expect that.

So seems the government does not care about digital nomads that much, at least a lot less as some Thavisa members.

It was either too much trouble to go after them or the fact that there was no competition with Thais made them decide not to do it.

Seems they did not care enough to make an example out of it and deport them.

Those were an extreme case. They were getting paid inside of Thailand and teaching English to Chinese students. They were getting paid Baht.. Ie: they were working for a Thai entity. Majority of digital nomads are working for home country entities and simply bringing cash. Thai authorities do not care about the majority of them, at the end of the day. Thai authorities are mostly practical IME.

[rwdrwdrwd]

The teachers you mention are not the same people I or jagfx are referring to - the question and my response to it was about the people who were arrested at a coworking space (it was indeed Punspace).

The teachers one is a different story (and as you mention, a different scenario), in that instance they were being recruited in Thailand and paid in Thailand, in baht, by a third party, and were working from an office in Thailand provided by that third party. That the end customers happened to be in China and they worked using the internet does not make them 'digital nomads'. Not sure what happened with them.

Edited June 23, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[Soutpeel]

but it if spurs changes that allow digital nomads to pay taxes and stay in Thailand legitimately, then wonderful.

They can do all that now if they want...so don't see your point

They mentioned this in the video like it was possible. I'm sorry, but I don't know about this change?

Of course it wouldn't apply to me, because I would never dream of freelancing without the proper visa, but I think my friend would very much like to know.

There's a visa now that digital nomads can apply for? And that visa will require them to pay taxes?

Yes...it involves registering with the government a thing called a Ltd company and investing a small amount of money, employing a few people, and getting a WP and paying income Tax and you will get a visa every year for the rest of your life if you want it

[DrTuner]

So now it's so widespread they're making videos. Rub it in their face and a crackdown is guaranteed. If they figure out a way to make some tea money out of it, those crackdowns will become regular issue.

[EnglishJohn]

but it if spurs changes that allow digital nomads to pay taxes and stay in Thailand legitimately, then wonderful.

They can do all that now if they want...so don't see your point

They mentioned this in the video like it was possible. I'm sorry, but I don't know about this change?

Of course it wouldn't apply to me, because I would never dream of freelancing without the proper visa, but I think my friend would very much like to know.

There's a visa now that digital nomads can apply for? And that visa will require them to pay taxes?

Yes...it involves registering with the government a thing called a Ltd company and investing a small amount of money, employing a few people, and getting a WP and paying income Tax and you will get a visa every year for the rest of your life if you want it

Yes: get your friend to pay to form a limited company, rent an office and pay every month to employ 4 Thai people he doesn't need to sit in it. Then he must get to work earning enough to cover that overhead plus make his own minimum salary every month otherwise he won't have a work permit. The government know about him now, so he had better be careful if he can't afford to keep doing it this way.

Or your friend could pay an agency to pretend he works for them then they will pay his own earnings back to him as salary minus their own fees of course. Completely fake and some skimmer outfit taking advantage which I hate.

Or your friend could keep his head down and make sure nobody outside his house knows he is working.

I wonder which one he will choose.

[Lukecan]

There is only one succesfull digital nomad I know, the rest are counting pennies. That successful guy just got himself hooked up with a 5 year Thai Elite visa. So if you really make big bucks, then you shouldn't have any problems forking over 500k baht for a 5 year old visa.

[Soutpeel]

There is only one succesfull digital nomad I know, the rest are counting pennies. That successful guy just got himself hooked up with a 5 year Thai Elite visa. So if you really make big bucks, then you shouldn't have any problems forking over 500k baht for a 5 year old visa.

I very rarely agree with any of your posts...but this occasion your remarks are spot on, if they are as successful as many claim then having USD 15k sitting around shouldn't be a problem and over the course of the visa it works out to around THB 260/day

I think we should differentiate here between a DM and someone setting up an on line business, as typically by the name DM's are that nomadic, ie they stay in one place/country for a while and move on somewhere else or a period, people setting up an on line business have typically set themselves up in one place an operate a business

one suspects many who claim to be DM's are not in fact DM's as they have set themselves up in Thailand, never go anywhere else and have purposely set up an on line business to finance their lives in Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

So now it's so widespread they're making videos. Rub it in their face and a crackdown is guaranteed. If they figure out a way to make some tea money out of it, those crackdowns will become regular issue.

Seems to me, if people keep their mouths shut and get on with things, that's one thing....but advertising like this head job is doing will only make it end badly as he is drawing attention to it and there will be a reaction eventually

Very difficult to crackdown directly on these sorts of things, so all they will do is hit the visa's, as most of these DM's are on visa wavier's/ Ed visa's etc, so that's the easiest way to get at them

[Ace of Pop]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

. Why a Thai driving license.?..Do you have to have a Pilots Licence cause. You came by Plane..