American gay couple unable to leave Thailand with daughter

[attrayant]

The argument against is that nature didn't intend it.

You're attempting to personify nature. Stop it; it makes no sense. Frame your position using established scientific principles, e.g. natural/artificial selection or whatever you like. But stop trying to tell us that you know what nature 'wants' to do or we'll have to start listing the hundreds and thousands of unnatural things that humans do and yet nobody seems to have a problem with.

Without this conventional exposure, nobody knows how children of gay couples will turn out.

Great. Another one who hasn't bothered to read the thread. I'll post this again: Study Finds No Difference Between Children Raised By Same-Sex and Heterosexual Couples

Of course it won't make them more likely to be gay, but skewed emotional development is likely (as is often seen in children of single parents).

I'm going to need a cite for this. Until then, I think it's safe to assume you just made this up.

Some people here point out that hetero fathers can be quite brutal - well, unfortunately that's part of the system - it's necessary to toughen up. If you start factoring that out, society will end up like the Eloi in H.G. Wells' Time Machine.

Now you're getting positively surreal and it's pretty clear that you're posting psychotic statements like this purely for the shock value.

[djayz]

I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out.

I couldn't disagree with you more. "Unusual" in the sense in which you mean it is in the eye of the beholder, and your viewpoint has rapidly become the minority opinion, at least in North America and most of Europe. Any child is much better off in a loving household with same-sex parents than in a tension-filled household with a forever squabbling heterosexual couple. From a child's perspective, a home environment is "unusual" and harmful if it is unstable, brittle, violent -- and all human couples, whether heterosexual, gay, or lesbian, are equally capable of creating such an environment, or of creating the opposite.

"your viewpoint has rapidly become the minority opinion, at least in North America and most of Europe" - do you have any proof of this? What statistics/research are you referring to?

Am intrigued to know when this viewpoint, which I share, became a minotrity opinion. Please do clarify.

[berybert]

Raising children in same sex households will surely have a detrimental effect on them in decades to come.

So are you against all boy and all girl schools ? Just imagine if you son goes to an all boys school. Got to turn out gay. If you have a girl and she goes to an all girl school shes got to end up a lesbian. Can only hope theres a few pervy old teachers that can show them right from wrong, huh ?

[lildragon]

Another thing that gets me. People say that nature 'intends' for us to be heterosexual. When there is recorded cases of wild animals being homosexual and they are more in tune with nature than us!

you're just bigots, at least admit that.

[Fairynuff]

Possibly the two most used words in this debate have been NORMAL and UNATURAL. Ironically normal in expat Thailand tends to be a western man of pensionable age with a local female partner a half or a third his age. The child of the relationship will probably have lost the father figure way before he or she graduates from school. Then of course there may be other kids he's taking care of that aren't his own. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing or judging, we all know these are facts of life here. If these relationships work, the older man gets his companion/cook/ housekeeper and the wife gets her financial security then there's no reason to judge. My point is that most people "back home" would never consider this normal. Many people here, possibly in this kind of relationship seem to find same sex marriages and particularly same sex parenting unatural, back home things have moved on to such a degree that tolerance, understanding and acceptance have now become normal. Look at Ireland, a deeply Catholic country voted by a huge majority for equal marriage. Same sex adoption in many western countries has been the norm for quite some time.

So for those of us whose minds are still narrow, remember that YOUR concept of normal or unatural might not be the majority view.

[Fairynuff]

I don't know how they (Queers) managed to hijack a beautiful English word just to make their lifestyle look nice !

Now not contented with that, they are trying to hijack the word Marriage. Call the relationship anything but marriage, that is the description of a "Religious union between WOMAN and MAN"

Marriage is not a religious Union. It is a legal union. If it were only a religious Union then everyone would have to marry in a church, they don't. Religion has actually hijacked the definition of marriage. They (the christians) think they own marriage, they don't.

[SoiBiker]

Hardly anybody I know grew up with one parent of each sex - largely because of the previous generation's propensity to piss off and abandon their family at the first sniff of some younger pussy. So it's a bit rich for them to start lecturing us about decent parenting.

[Jingthing]

I don't know how they (Queers) managed to hijack a beautiful English word just to make their lifestyle look nice !

Now not contented with that, they are trying to hijack the word Marriage. Call the relationship anything but marriage, that is the description of a "Religious union between WOMAN and MAN"

Marriage is not a religious Union. It is a legal union. If it were only a religious Union then everyone would have to marry in a church, they don't. Religion has actually hijacked the definition of marriage. They (the christians) think they own marriage, they don't.

It really depends on the country.

In some countries religious involvement is mandated.

You're right about the USA though.

[AZBill]

I guess the U.S. Supreme Court decision yesterday didn't have much impact on her.

[evadgib]

Raising children in same sex households will surely have a detrimental effect on them in decades to come.

So are you against all boy and all girl schools ? Just imagine if you son goes to an all boys school. Got to turn out gay. If you have a girl and she goes to an all girl school shes got to end up a lesbian. Can only hope theres a few pervy old teachers that can show them right from wrong, huh ?

The only same sex environments that give cause for concern are Scouts and the Catholic church:) Edited June 28, 2015 by evadgib

[thaibeachlovers]

My exact sentiments.... , just last week, I saw this old guy, about 80 walking or should I say scuffling along with a very small baby in his arms, and I thought it was a bit bizarre, then I saw this Thai Bird, about 20 years old with loads of Tatoos.... (Tramp stamp), come up to him and hold his arm ??? Fine if they are happy there lives, but he looked as though he was about to pop his clogs any minute.....

I don't agree with either, an old guy is going to have some time with his kid, and he only has that 30 year younger wife because he has plenty of money, but two men bringing up a kid together????? that is just cruel to the kid, he/she is going to spend the rest of his/her life wondering "will I call them both dad or what?

His/her mind is going to go all sort of ways, he /she is going to wonder why his pals (that's if he/ she ever has any) have a female mum and a male dad,

and he/she is going to resent the fact that he/she is different from normal people. It is just cruel to bring up a kid in that unnatural way.

You present your imagination as facts. One of my friends at school was brought up in a same sex household, she did not suffer any of the problems you envision.

As far as you know.

Quite right. Dig deep enough with everyone I know and there are problems. That is why psychologists make a good living.

Quote deleted to allow posting

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't know how they (Queers) managed to hijack a beautiful English word just to make their lifestyle look nice !

Now not contented with that, they are trying to hijack the word Marriage. Call the relationship anything but marriage, that is the description of a "Religious union between WOMAN and MAN"

Marriage is not a religious Union. It is a legal union. If it were only a religious Union then everyone would have to marry in a church, they don't. Religion has actually hijacked the definition of marriage. They (the christians) think they own marriage, they don't.

Are you for real????????

Marriage was started as religious institution and only when secular society started did it become available as a non religious option. Not just Christians either- ALL religions have marriage as part of their belief system.

[Yunla]

Let's face facts here, a child needs a mother and father to bring them up and not 2 people call Bert and Joe.

God designed man and woman differently for a purpose, if people fail to understand this then they have the problem and not the sane members of society.

Having 2 males as parents is as ridiculous as these same sex marriages that these weirdos are calling for.

Bloody pathetic.

I am a devoted Christian, and a believer in human free will, and progress through science technology.

God designed me too, and in His wisdom He gave me brittle bones, epilepsy and cerebral palsy, all at birth.

I grow so weary of people saying "God made it this way, therefor this is the only way." God made a reality of challenges and tests, for us all to overcome with dignity and grace. For some people this means coping with disability, for some people it means overcoming problems created by society, such as illogical laws restricting who you are allowed to fall in love with. For some people, the greatest challenge God gave them, is to overcome their own prejudice or ignorance. These are all tests, of this I am sure.

A child needs love, shelter, kindness and wisdom. These things are human qualities, not related to the parent's gender or lovelife.

[Bluespunk]

Let's face facts here, a child needs a mother and father to bring them up and not 2 people call Bert and Joe.

God designed man and woman differently for a purpose, if people fail to understand this then they have the problem and not the sane members of society.

Having 2 males as parents is as ridiculous as these same sex marriages that these weirdos are calling for.

Bloody pathetic.

Your last two words nicely sum up your post.

God designed? Do people really still believe that?

[thaibeachlovers]

Let's face facts here, a child needs a mother and father to bring them up and not 2 people call Bert and Joe.

God designed man and woman differently for a purpose, if people fail to understand this then they have the problem and not the sane members of society.

Having 2 males as parents is as ridiculous as these same sex marriages that these weirdos are calling for.

Bloody pathetic.

I am a devoted Christian, and a believer in human free will, and progress through science technology.

God designed me too, and in His wisdom He gave me brittle bones, epilepsy and cerebral palsy, all at birth.

I grow so weary of people saying "God made it this way, therefor this is the only way." God made a reality of challenges and tests, for us all to overcome with dignity and grace. For some people this means coping with disability, for some people it means overcoming problems created by society, such as illogical laws restricting who you are allowed to fall in love with. For some people, the greatest challenge God gave them, is to overcome their own prejudice or ignorance. These are all tests, of this I am sure.

A child needs love, shelter, kindness and wisdom. These things are human qualities, not related to the parent's gender or lovelife.

No disagreement from me re your last paragraph. However this thread is about people buying children like they would a pet, not about the child per se.

[Yunla]

No disagreement from me re your last paragraph. However this thread is about people buying children like they would a pet, not about the child per se.

I agree, and I covered the surrogacy / adoption issue in my earlier posts. I just felt I had to respond on the "God made it this way" because that is a phrase being used a lot at the moment, without ever been substantiated or even considered in its implications.

[arfurcrown]

Marmaduke to Clarence..

Dearetht Clarenth, why can't we have a baby?

Clarence. You know there's no woom here.

Marmnaduke .Well should we went a womb, then we can have a baby?

Clarence. Only ifth the womb has a no weturn clause.

I wonder why bulls do not have tits and why in the greater part of the creatures that are on earth the female tends to be the one who either lays the eggs or carries her babies and cares for them?

Men are not natural mothers and the forcing of the ideals of same sex parenting on others is reprehensible.

What would these people say if they were to have say a political belief forced upon them or the compulsory acceptance of the consumption of alcohol or nicotine.

Edited June 28, 2015 by arfurcrown

[lostinisaan]

Can anyone spot something terribly wrong in this sentence? or is it just me.

"A Florida man claims he and his husband ...."

The damn world has gone quite mad.

How else could they explain in one sentence that Florida man will have to breast feed the baby?

[thaibeachlovers]

Can anyone spot something terribly wrong in this sentence? or is it just me.

"A Florida man claims he and his husband ...."

The damn world has gone quite mad.

How else could they explain in one sentence that Florida man will have to breast feed the baby?

No problem. Did you see Robert De Niro in that revolting Focker movie where he uses a plastic titty to breast feed his child?

[Ace of Pop]

Seems to me many Homosexuals are not content to live quietly , they jump about the Streets acting like Pro Cycle Activists and Religious Nutters pissing Folks off the majority of quiet folk regardless of their cause. Dont they realize many of their persuasion dont like them ether. I never dissliked or noticed them till some Lefty Nurd told Me i Should.

[Fairynuff]

350 posts and almost nothing of value. If I've learned anything from this, it's that this forum has way too many bigots

[Fairynuff]

Seems to me many Homosexuals are not content to live quietly , they jump about the Streets acting like Pro Cycle Activists and Religious Nutters pissing Folks off the majority of quiet folk regardless of their cause. Dont they realize many of their persuasion dont like them ether. I never dissliked or noticed them till some Lefty Nurd told Me i Should.

.

Perfect example confirming my previous post. Homosexuals should be seen and not heard? Or preferably not even seen? A certain Mr H had a similar view

[thaibeachlovers]

Seems to me many Homosexuals are not content to live quietly , they jump about the Streets acting like Pro Cycle Activists and Religious Nutters pissing Folks off the majority of quiet folk regardless of their cause. Dont they realize many of their persuasion dont like them ether. I never dissliked or noticed them till some Lefty Nurd told Me i Should.

.

Perfect example confirming my previous post. Homosexuals should be seen and not heard? Or preferably not even seen? A certain Mr H had a similar view

IMO you are deliberately misconstruing what he said for your own ends.

He is saying that homosexuals are always confronting straight people, instead of just getting on with their lives.

Can you imagine the uproar if there was a parade every year for non homosexuality?

[Peterbkk7]

Nowadays whenever somebody dares to say somehting negative about gay people it is discrimination, it is homophobia, etc... it never ends.

In this politically correct society you are only allowed to say good things about them.

[attrayant]

Nowadays whenever somebody dares to say somehting negative about gay people it is discrimination, it is homophobia, etc... it never ends.

You've just added the word 'bigotry' to your vocabulary today? Congrats.

Edited June 28, 2015 by attrayant

[Jingthing]

I guess the U.S. Supreme Court decision yesterday didn't have much impact on her.

Why would it? The couple was already legally married under US federal law. But they're in Thailand.

[Baerboxer]

If God want any Couple to have baby one them should get pregnant. If one can not get pregnant that is God saying no babies.

He did say steal kill for one or buy one

God doesn't exist though. He's a figure in people head

Of course you can prove that for a fact?

You absolutely know there is no such thing, however mankind may chose to misrepresent it?

All those billions of people who worship God, in some form, through whatever religion they choose are wrong are they, as only you and those who think like you can be right? I don't personally believe in the virgin birth of Christ - but I know many Catholics who do.

I'm not a religious person - but I respect the rights of others to be. I don't dismiss people with different views, attempt to ridicule them or profess only my view can be right.

But I'm not a PC liberal bigot either whose views must be trendy and fashionable.

[Baerboxer]

Nowadays whenever somebody dares to say somehting negative about gay people it is discrimination, it is homophobia, etc... it never ends.

You've just added the word 'bigotry' to your vocabulary today? Congrats.

No he hasn't. You are trying to pin that tag on a view that is expressing a common behavior trait. Claiming any who make a comment you don't like to be bigotry.

Do you see the irony in your post - probably not.

One section of society likes to portray their views, and only their views, as being reasonable and just. Any different view is vilified as bigoted, racist, homophobic, politically motivated - nothing to do with the validity of the comment. It's easier to dismiss and attack the poster.

I have homosexual friends and acquaintances, male and female, and just like hetrosexual people the are all unique individuals, of differing intelligence, values and emotions.

But you carry on stereotyping and being fashionable with the word bigotry if it make you happy.

[Rimmer]

Two empty posts and a reply removed

[Baerboxer]

A mythical man in the sky 'created' man and a woman from 'magic'. He also created the earth by 'magic'.

I'll take gays over fools that believe in a 2000 year old book of fairy tales thanks.

Ironically enough before that book was written being gay/bi/what ever the hell you wanted in ancient Greece/Rome was never an issue. Seems we have been going in reverse with those attitudes for 2000 years.

Another one who knows more that everyone else. Whoopee do you you.

So much in science is now confirming some of the things that the bible wrote. Was it more than an historical account of events, a ripping good yarn at the time, an attempt to move away from debauched multi-god worship and lewd practices of the times? Who knows. But, billions have believed in it over thousands of years, even after man's corruptions twisted it. Of course they didn't know as much as you; but only a fool thinks everyone else a fool.

I know many homosexual people who are very religious, some of whom are ministers in their faith, and many who try hard to live as they believe not just turn up on a Sunday morning.

You'd fit right in with the societies of ancient Rome and Greece. Slavery, sexual abuse, gang rape as a punishment, criminals used as "gladiators", and invasion, pillage and dictatorship of neighboring countries. Very civilized. And yes, we do seem to be going in reverse.