Does Melatonin really work for you as a sleep aid?

[ryanhull]

Hey All,

Ive been having insomnia again recently, and I am struggling to get any sleep at all... I have been through xanax, clonazepam & valium which all clearly work to get me to sleep but as with any benzo they only delay the problem and in fact make it worse when you come off the drugs. I am fully aware of the bad sides to benzo`s and how dangerous they can be taking them willy nilly, but when you haven't slept for 4 days straight and you NEED to sleep sometimes it is the only thing that short term can help.

I have done all the usual steps like massage, reading with a dim light blah blah trying to get to the root of the problem etc but nothing works at all so I always have to slip back to a benzo of some kind to get a good nights sleep. With the benzo`s comes funny moods, change in personality etc and I really want to get away from them full stop.

I am sat here now having not slept for some 38 hours (wide awake) thinking what am I going to do about this, I have been reading alot on the internet as you do and I am hearing good things about Melatonin, yet I am also reading it is a placebo affect and 50% negatives people saying it simply does not work, question is do any of you guys take Melatonin and does it help you sleep?

I am half tempted to go to the hospital and get a top up of Clonazepam or to give Melatonin a try... I really have had enough of doctors etc telling me to get to the cause of the problem, stress, work, excersize etc as I fully understand why I am being told that but really in my case I have nothing really to stress me out I just simply cannot sleep.

Any advise or replies appreciated from anyone else suffering with insomnia

Cheers

[Dr Robert]

Go and see a health care professional who atually knows how to advise you properly-dont expect good, free counsel in here.

Old proverb:

If you want something good, for nothing, that is exactly what you will get

[ryanhull]

Go and see a health care professional who atually knows how to advise you properly-dont expect good, free counsel in here.

Old proverb:

If you want something good, for nothing, that is exactly what you will get

Hello, I have already seen 2 doctors and a psychiatrist at 2 different hospitals in Thailand, both have just armed me up with benzo`s and given me the usual 'what is the root of your problem' which whilst I understand what they are getting at really does not help. I gave my doctor in the UK a call and he was simular except was giving me greif about taking any benzo`s which is obviously standard for him to say, he has been my doc since I was a young lad.

I don't expect any free professional advise here but I would like to know peoples opinions on Melatonin as a sleep aid, also from what I can read Melatonin is not readily available over the counter, or isit?

Thanks

[NeverSure]

Just two things. Are you sure that you are going to bed at a reasonable time and the same time, consistently? Are you instead going to bed only when you feel sleepy? I need a schedule and am sometimes actually surprised that I fall asleep after going to bed because I didn't feel sleepy.

Next, are you sure you're allowing your mind to turn off? Those meds help by shutting your mind down from thinking too much. I don't get sleepy if sitting at a computer or watching TV. For some reason I do if I read a good book or simply go to bed.

When I've had episodes like yours it's because my mind doesn't stop working, not my body. I have to shut everything off, go to bed and let it happen. It might not work in your case at all...

Good luck.

[bkkbudddy]

YES, just remember that melatonin is a hormone not a sleeping pill! I've been taking 3mg of melatonin for 10 years without side effects. Also, don't take more than 3mg because you'll get nightmares!

[ryanhull]

Just two things. Are you sure that you are going to bed at a reasonable time and the same time, consistently? Are you instead going to bed only when you feel sleepy? I need a schedule and am sometimes actually surprised that I fall asleep after going to bed because I didn't feel sleepy.

Next, are you sure you're allowing your mind to turn off? Those meds help by shutting your mind down from thinking too much. I don't get sleepy if sitting at a computer or watching TV. For some reason I do if I read a good book or simply go to bed.

When I've had episodes like yours it's because my mind doesn't stop working, not my body. I have to shut everything off, go to bed and let it happen. It might not work in your case at all...

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply and advise appreciated, I think my sleeping pattern is a bit messed up yes as I have a 6 month old son to look after, however I do not think that is the cause of my issue. Also I am bad for being infront of my laptop too long but again its strange I do not think that is the cause of it all..... with regards to reading, my UK doctor said exactly the same thing on the phone (try reading with a dim light on) but really I hate reading and plus when I say I cannot sleep I mean I am wide awake. Its strange I do not feel tired mentally but I can tell I am.

The only thing that has worked for me so far are the benzo`s and I hate taking them as I know the consequences of abusing them and what they can do to people when you 'cold turkey'. This is why this time I am seeking out views on Melatonin as a sleep aid as I really do not want to go get any more benzo`s as its just a circle of doom.

I will go to the pharmacy soon and ask about Melatonin, I might also slip by the hospital and try and some Clonazepams as a back up in-case they do not work tonight, my doctor also said I should try going to the gym early evening and have a nice big meal afterwoods which might help but its one of those things very hard to explain when your brain is wired awake, a bit like you've necked 5 red bulls in a row. I really hate asking for benzo`s in the hospital as you get that dreaded look off the doctor, and the usual grilling about getting to the root ofit, yet what I have tried to do recently is 'taper' myself off the benzo`s for example taking as little as 0.25mg of xanax... now I am 100% off them for the last few days its seems I am back to square one and wide awake.

Anyway thanks for your reply, and agreed on the mind closing off thats what I need, but unfortunately I dont think reading etc will work for me I have tried all that.

Cheers

[KVJ]

I have tried melatonin and didn't do anything for me.

I have used benzos from time to time just to break out of a bad run but have avoided using them regularly for the same reasons you outline.

My sleep "hygene" (annoying word!) is fine and I'm not particularly stressed so it is pretty frustrating to read the same old trite advice all the time when you've got it all covered. It's possible there's a physical cause but searching for it leads you down endless fruitless dead ends.

The thing that has helped me more than anything was letting go - shrugging my shoulders, aceepting that, for whatever reason, I don't sleep well, and appreciating whatever sleep I may get. It's ironic with sleep that the harder you try to sort it out the worse the problem seems to get. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is all the go with sleep disorders now, which is, from what I gather, based on similar modes of thought. Anyway, for what it's worth I sleep better now than I used too when I was "fighting it", although it's still not ideal, I just try not to let it get on top of me and at least I'm not popping pills regularly.

Sorry I can't be of more help than that. Wish there was an easy solution but seems there isn't one.

[ryanhull]

YES, just remember that melatonin is a hormone not a sleeping pill! I've been taking 3mg of melatonin for 10 years without side effects. Also, don't take more than 3mg because you'll get nightmares!

Thanks for the reply, sounds positive, I am literally going to get down to the pharmacy now, sounds like they will be able to sell me it over the counter?

[KVJ]

ps. the melatonin I tried was over the counter at Morya pharmacy. They were slow release ones and quite expensive too.

[ryanhull]

I have tried melatonin and didn't do anything for me.

I have used benzos from time to time just to break out of a bad run but have avoided using them regularly for the same reasons you outline.

My sleep "hygene" (annoying word!) is fine and I'm not particularly stressed so it is pretty frustrating to read the same old trite advice all the time when you've got it all covered. It's possible there's a physical cause but searching for it leads you down endless fruitless dead ends.

The thing that has helped me more than anything was letting go - shrugging my shoulders, aceepting that, for whatever reason, I don't sleep well, and appreciating whatever sleep I may get. It's ironic with sleep that the harder you try to sort it out the worse the problem seems to get. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is all the go with sleep disorders now, which is, from what I gather, based on similar modes of thought. Anyway, for what it's worth I sleep better now than I used too when I was "fighting it", although it's still not ideal, I just try not to let it get on top of me and at least I'm not popping pills regularly.

Sorry I can't be of more help than that. Wish there was an easy solution but seems there isn't one.

Cheers mate, your exactly the reason I am already against trying Melatonin, because 50% of people say it works great and 50% are like you say no affect, I guess I just have to give it a go and see if it helps or not... I hear you about fighting the sleep as-well, even when I take a tiny tiny 0.25 of xanax my mind sometimes tells me 'your not sleeping you haven't had enough, im not going to let you' type thing so I get up and take more! bad news. Anyway thanks all really appreciated the replies as its starting to really get on my nerves. Thnx

[NeverSure]

"as its starting to really get on my nerves." That will keep you awake, LOL. All the benzos will do is help shut your mind off so you can get the sleep you already need. They aren't a sleeping pill per se. I'd get away from the TV and computer at least an hour before bed to perhaps let the brain shut off. I say this only because benzos help.

BTW a few days might not be enough to get away from the benzos. That might take a week or two while you remind yourself that your mind and body will sleep naturally if you approach it naturally. Maybe you're trying too hard. Maybe you have performance anxiety about sleeping, LOL.

Unless there's something physically wrong with you, you'll sleep when you're tired enough as a bodily defense if you can just let it happen instead of waiting for it to happen. I wouldn't touch another benzo for sleeping much less take it regularly.

Good luck.

[KVJ]

You've got nothing to lose by trying it. You never know.

Yes, that's one of the problems with sleeping aids - you start playing mind games, I haven't taken enough, when's it going to kick in?, they aren't working any more, I'm devleoping tolerance etc etc etc.

Again, for me, once I gave up the struggle, things got better. Not great but better. And even though I'm not sleeping so great it's somewhat of a consolation to know that I've been able to muddle through without sleeping aids.

[Assurancetourix]

Another drug I use nearly every day ..

100 or more kilometers on my MTB ( Mountain Bike ) ;

when it's time to sleep between 9 and 10 pm, no problem to do it...

I don't smoke, I don't drink alcool and I'm living in the countryside, far from noisy towns...since eight years , in Thailand, of course

[happynthailand]

try "Dormirax 25" , works good,been takeing it for years,you can buy it OTC

[ryanhull]

Another drug I use nearly every day ..

100 or more kilometers on my MTB ( Mountain Bike ) ;

when it's time to sleep between 9 and 10 pm, no problem to do it...

I don't smoke, I don't drink alcool and I'm living in the countryside, far from noisy towns...since eight years , in Thailand, of course

100km on your bike? in this heat? hah no thanks! but I appreciate your advice I am hoping to get my weights out at some point! but lifting 80kg over my head after not sleeping for a while is not a good idea!

try "Dormirax 25" , works good,been takeing it for years,you can buy it OTC

Dormirax 25 sounds pretty hardcore (the name), I will have a read up about that thanks

I ended up getting refilled with clonazepam from the hospital, the doctor seems to want to give me it for some reason, we agreed I should use this fill up to taper down off benzo`s full stop and try out Melatonin next... today I just couldn't be bothered trapsing round pharmacies given I feel like a walking corpse and I think the doc noticed that too.

Its amazing how much having no sleep can beat you down quickly and affect your appetite, motivation etc, I never thought insomnia was even possible until it started to affect me.

Anyway thanks all I will give an update on the Melatonin when I try it.

[Assurancetourix]

100km on your bike? in this heat? hah no thanks! but I appreciate your advice I am hoping to get my weights out at some point! but lifting 80kg over my head after not sleeping for a while is not a good idea!

Yesterday, beginning at 5 am; it was still a little bit dark;

I did only 76 km and drank about 5 liters of Coke and water ;

coming back home at 11 am ; you can have a look at some photos I shot on my route if u go in the lign

" Photography and the Arts " on TVF forum .

a good fresh shower and a rest..

In the evening a few hours on my computer;

watching a good TV serie :

Person of Interest ;

was in bed at 10 pm

Wake up at 5.30 am this morning ...

Never take/took a drug for sleeping

Today no bicycle but to morrow again on it;

What I did the last three months on my MTB ; I'm living in Sakon Nakhon province ; last raining day, maybe one month ago ; everyday between 38 and 40* C in the shadow .

April 2015 = 1113 km

May 2015 = 1337 km

June 2015 = 1140 km

[brewsterbudgen]

Boots sell Melatonin. Not particularly cheap though.

[KVJ]

"Its amazing how much having no sleep can beat you down quickly and affect your appetite, motivation etc"

People always say that psychological problems cause insomnia but to me the reverse is true: insomnia causes psychological problems.

[ryanhull]

Posted 21 minutes ago

ryanhull, on 03 Jul 2015 - 05:10, said:

100km on your bike? in this heat? hah no thanks! but I appreciate your advice I am hoping to get my weights out at some point! but lifting 80kg over my head after not sleeping for a while is not a good idea!

Yesterday, beginning at 5 am; it was still a little bit dark;

I did only 76 km and drank about 5 liters of Coke and water ;

coming back home at 11 am ; you can have a look at some photos I shot on my route if u go in the lign

" Photography and the Arts " on TVF forum .

a good fresh shower and a rest..

In the evening a few hours on my computer;

watching a good TV serie :

Person of Interest ;

was in bed at 10 pm

Wake up at 5.30 am this morning ...

Never take/took a drug for sleeping

Today no bicycle but to morrow again on it;

What I did the last three months on my MTB ; I'm living in Sakon Nakhon province ; last raining day, maybe one month ago ; everyday between 38 and 40* C in the shadow .

April 2015 = 1113 km

May 2015 = 1337 km

June 2015 = 1140 km

Fair play to you! where are you out of interest, I notice you said your way out... I am living in Sarakham so not too busy here either, I may invest in a decent bike but I am more of a gym go`er to be honest, but maximum fair play to you I dont think I could do it in this heat

Its amazing how much having no sleep can beat you down quickly and affect your appetite, motivation etc"

People always say that psychological problems cause insomnia but to me the reverse is true: insomnia causes psychological problems.

True true, however when you've got a baby to look after, you cant afford to not sleep when the baby does! haha, its a circle of doom to be honest, I need to get my sleep so I am alive to take care of my boy and my two dogs etc but your right I think. What I find is what I haven't slept for over 24 hours I then cannot eat properly, because I haven't eaten properly I start feeling really rough combined with the no sleep... man its just a never ending spiral, hence why I sometimes have to resort to the meds to knock me out so I can at-least get some winks! Cheers

[Sheryl]

Melatonin is helpful for sleep problems that are related to low melatonin levels, like jet lag and early morning awakening in the elderly. Beyond that, it may induce a light sleepiness but that is of little use for people who are already sleepy but unable to sleep due to anxiety, which sounds like your situation. It definitely doesn't knock you out the way benzos will and this I think explains the mixed reports.

Atarax in doses from 50 - 100mg is non-addictive and will put most people to sleep, even those who are anxious. Should not be taken every single night but may help for catching up on sleep once every few days. May leave you groggy the next day and with dry mouth. Don't take it the night before you have to drive in the morning or get up early for an appountment, at least not until you get to know how it affects you.

Beyond that you really do need to address underlying factors. Besides anxiety, caffeine and alcohol are common culprits. There is often a vicious cycle of not enough sleep --> caffeine --> more insomnia. Adding to that people may try to use alcohol to help them sleep which worsens the problem in the long run.

[muskoka]

I used to take melatonin a few years back, to relax and get proper sleep. I frequently had extremely weird dreams, somewhat beautiful dreams but totally "out there", not freaky. I do not remember how many mg tho. I have read there are quality differences between different brands, so best not to be cheap charlie at first.

I now take 1mg of Ativan occasionally when I need a good nights sleep, works really well, but addictive I am told so only take one every few days as needed, 30 tabs last me 5-6 months. My problem is waking up after 5-6 hours sleep and not being able to go back to sleep, yet still feeling tired.

I may get some melatonin and alternate between the two to see what works best.

YES, proper restful sleep is critically important IMO, so keep trying and experimenting.

Doug

[muskoka]

forgot to mention I am 67 years old which may play a factor with my sleep issues. I now find evenings boring, but love the early morning (6-7am) sitting outside with my coffee watching the world go by.

[Sheryl]

I find melatonin excellent for the too-early waking (which is directly caused by declining melatonin levels as one ages). However, have it take it when you wake up as taking iot before bed --> it wears off before needed. This means lying awake for a little while before it kicks in, but it does and then gives a sound sleep.

[tfc]

Chlorpheniramine maleate which is in Tiffy knocks me out pretty quick when I need to change sleep patterns from travel so I don't use it that much. I bought from a pharmacy in Chiang Mai that stocked just Chlorpheniramine maleate without the paracetamol and phenylephrine(that is also in Tiffy) for about 15 baht for 100 tablets. I think the pharmacy was Peera near Thapae gate but it was a long time ago so could have been the other one.

[h90]

Another drug I use nearly every day ..

100 or more kilometers on my MTB ( Mountain Bike ) ;

when it's time to sleep between 9 and 10 pm, no problem to do it...

I don't smoke, I don't drink alcool and I'm living in the countryside, far from noisy towns...since eight years , in Thailand, of course

100km on your bike? in this heat? hah no thanks! but I appreciate your advice I am hoping to get my weights out at some point! but lifting 80kg over my head after not sleeping for a while is not a good idea!

try "Dormirax 25" , works good,been takeing it for years,you can buy it OTC

Dormirax 25 sounds pretty hardcore (the name), I will have a read up about that thanks

I ended up getting refilled with clonazepam from the hospital, the doctor seems to want to give me it for some reason, we agreed I should use this fill up to taper down off benzo`s full stop and try out Melatonin next... today I just couldn't be bothered trapsing round pharmacies given I feel like a walking corpse and I think the doc noticed that too.

Its amazing how much having no sleep can beat you down quickly and affect your appetite, motivation etc, I never thought insomnia was even possible until it started to affect me.

Anyway thanks all I will give an update on the Melatonin when I try it.

I do the same on the road bike (when I have time, but usually somewhen between 11 AM and 3 PM. Needs lots of water but the heat is no problem. You get used to it. In the evening some rehydration beer and you have a different kind of sleep problem.......Long distance biking really makes you sleep better.

[skippybangkok]

Yes, but it makes me a sleepy as shit the next day

[jimmym40]

Ryan, I've had the same problem as you for many, many years. Been thru all the specialists, including a physciatrist., bottom line ciratrist said, just keep taking your ambien. Thanks doc.

Anyway, to answer your question about melatonin. I've tried it, first 3mg, then 6mg and up to 9mg and has never done anything for me. My big problem is "getting" to sleep. If and when I do, it only last 2-2 1/2 hours. I have been getting melatonin from the states, Puritan Pride, very cheap. Others have said it's expensive here in Thailand. Try it for 10 days and see what happens.

[xylophone]

Yes, but it makes me a sleepy as shit the next day

Melatonin did seem to work for me, however had a similar effect although probably not as severe by the sound of it – – just felt a little lethargic the next day.

Boots sell it and it goes by the name of "Circadin 2mg" and would be worth a try IMO.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, however what has come through in a few of your posts is the attitude that "I know what I should do, but can't be bothered/too hot/don't like it/whatever".

The best sleep I have ever had was when I was actively playing a sport, so perhaps some exercise would be good for you in an air-conditioned gym or similar, or even at home. Being on the computer or similar device before retiring is a "no-no" for many people and as others have said, cutting back on alcohol, coffee, chocolate and the like can also help.

I was once in the situation like you and tried transcendental meditation, and it worked to a certain extent, in clearing my mind and helped me to relax. There was another technique I learned and it was most useful in as much as when one is laying in bed (on one's back), one focuses the thoughts on relaxing the muscles on top of the head and subconsciously repeats the word "relax", then move to the forehead and do the same, then the cheeks, then the chin, then the chest and all the way down to the bottom of your body and before you have reached your feet, you could well be asleep. Spend about 20 seconds on each part of the body.

I have also heard good things about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy which will actually help you get to the reason why sleep is/has become so difficult so that you can deal with it.

I had a friend in the same situation as you and he was working as executive chef on luxury launches for many famous people and he continued with his habit of taking benzodiazepines to help him sleep and did it for over five years. When he came back to normal life, he couldn't stop and became an absolute mess and had to go through a detox type program to wean him off of the things, and he said it was most distressing.

Good luck and keep trying the suggestions that folks are giving you without having to resort to benzo's or similar.

[skippybangkok]

Yes, but it makes me a sleepy as shit the next day

Melatonin did seem to work for me, however had a similar effect although probably not as severe by the sound of it – – just felt a little lethargic the next day.

Boots sell it and it goes by the name of "Circadin 2mg" and would be worth a try IMO.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, however what has come through in a few of your posts is the attitude that "I know what I should do, but can't be bothered/too hot/don't like it/whatever".

.

Me ?

[xylophone]

Yes, but it makes me a sleepy as shit the next day

Melatonin did seem to work for me, however had a similar effect although probably not as severe by the sound of it – – just felt a little lethargic the next day.

Boots sell it and it goes by the name of "Circadin 2mg" and would be worth a try IMO.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, however what has come through in a few of your posts is the attitude that "I know what I should do, but can't be bothered/too hot/don't like it/whatever".

.

Me ?

No, sorry Skippy...........I was meaning the impression I got from some of the OP's posts.