Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[bamukloy]

I don't believe that any crucial evidence, including dna, was lost. I believe that any evidence which contradicts the case of the powers that be was simply thrown away. I feel that it's kind of kind of missing the point to criticize the authorities for their carelessness, when the real problem is much worse.

Buried deep in the thread a poster states that the samples of blonde hair that Hanna was clutching is also missing.

I cant believe this crucial evidence has'nt been followed up. If they can say the sperm samples are Asian, then certainly hair can tell them the same.

Seeing how there arent to many blonde Asians around

whos hairs are they?????

If the Thai police were after a way out they could have easily said the perp was an unknown blonde haired caucasian who has most probably left the country.

It doesnt make sense why they would loose such important evidence and certainly makes no sense why they have not investigated that line of evidence to the full

[webfact]

Court may order retesting of DNA in Koh Tao double murder case
The Nation



KOH SAMUI: -- A court looks set to commission the Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) to retest the DNA of two Myanmar nationals who are facing charges of killing two British backpackers in Thailand last year, an informed source disclosed yesterday.

The order is expected to be issued today, according to the source.

The move, if made, promises to clear doubts as to whether migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun, both 22, were made scapegoats. Both suspects have pleaded not guilty in court, saying that they initially confessed under pressure from police.

So far, police and public prosecutors have cited DNA results as incriminating evidence against them, prompting their defence team to request fresh DNA tests.

CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries. So far, she said the retesting was quite rare in Thailand and hence she was not sure about the evidence storage process.

"We will have to see the conditions of the evidence first," she said.

The two Myanmar nationals are standing trial for the murder of 24 yearold David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Koh Tao in September.

Much of the defence's case revolves around a bid to retest key forensic evidence, including the DNA on cigarettes and a condom found near the crime scene as well as DNA swabs taken from the victims' bodies.

"The DNA samples taken from the bodies are not my responsibility. They are in Bangkok," Police LtColonel Somsak Nurod added.

The opening day of the trial on Wednesday saw the defence attack the police for failing to cordon off the crime scene quickly enough.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Court-may-order-retesting-of-DNA-in-Koh-Tao-double-30264137.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-10

[jdinasia]

Thistle article clears up some of the testimony from yesterday

[fareastguy]

(BBC) Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists, Thai police have told the BBC.

This whole case is a farce !!!

If the DNA evidence was the only evidence that was used by the police to convict these two boys then surely based on it's absence in court and the defense team being un-able to submit it for re-testing to prove that it really was that of the defendants (or that it really existed) then this case in front of judge & jury surely must be thrown out !!

[IslandLover]

Do you mean with also the Alibi of Nomsod, in which he is captured on CCTV in his Bangkok Residence at the University on both the day before and the day of the murders?

Or does your Grand Conspiracy Theory also include the Security at the University Campus, plus all the University Students who say Nomsod was in class at the Bangkok University and writing an exam on the morning of September 15th, and day of the murders?

DNA Testing is expensive and also very time consuming. I am sure they are backlogged in Thailand for other crimes, and just like they are where you live. So you can add me to the list that would say No, as with an Alibi like this, you are just wasting time and tax payers money. Especially when you already have a match from the 2 accused.

My friend you do speak some serious pap, in many posts you make to do with this case it seems. Not sure what your agenda is?

There are reports that Nomsod was on KT that night, along with some of his privileged pals, hanging out in his uncles bar. There were students in his class that said he was missing. The Uni cctv 'snapshot' that shows him on uni property the NEXT day had a lot of doubts about its authenticity, and even if authentic it in no way proves that he was not on KT the previous night. (Out of interest is this cctv snapshot from the next day the 'iron clad alibi' that you refer to? If so can you explain how that is 'iron clad'?)

The confrontation between Hannah / David and some locals in the AC bar seems to be neatly forgotten. No cctv has ever been forthcoming from the AC bar I believe? That's pretty handy if our chum was there. Also jokes (or maybe not jokes?) the next day or two between Nomsod and one or two of his chums about the killings on Facebook (in Thai). One of these people was a girl who, like Nomsod, regularly visits KT (another very privileged offspring) and these 2 in particular chatted and joked about the killings. I must dig up her name. The way they talked made me wonder if she might have been on KT that weekend too. In fact to be honest it made me wonder if they were both involved. I'd also be interested to know more about the AC bar DJs and the large fella who posed with a ho as he cropped up in some facebook friends lists also.

Despite numerous cameras on the wee strip there seemed to be a total lack of cctv available/provided of the night in question apart from a few seconds of edited stuff from a single camera. Surely just a few hours of uninterrupted cctv from a few of the best positioned cameras would have helped this case possibly, rather than the tiny bit released that, surprise surprise, just served to confuse and muddy waters even more. Now who can control all this stuff on the ground?

1. Village headman (or relatives)

2. RTP

3. No-one else

Why was Mon and his dodgy copper pal threatening to pin it on and hang Sean McCanna to tidy up if they had nothing on him?

I'll grant you one point for your observation about the condom a few pages back, but, if correct, that to me just backs up the fact that there was a very personal motive behind this attack IMO. The B2 just do not fit. Some others fit much better. I'm not saying Mon was the main perp (or even involved in the initial crimes) but his alleged 'dna test' was apparently done and dusted in 8 hours seemingly without anything even leaving the island yet days later the Bangkok lab themselves said it takes an absolute minimum of 24 hours to do the tests. So I call BS on that particular 'test'. Was Mon hiding something, or maybe his dna might have been uncomfortably close to one of the guilty parties?

I think the only thing that is guaranteed is that the real perps will never get done for this. I do think that there is a lot more knowledge on the island than is being shared, so possibly the truth will out in the long run but will never be 'cast iron'. If people living there think that is paradise then so be it. Funny idea of paradise though - being shit scared of your life if you don't toe the killer mafia line. You can keep that thanks.

@bunglebag - I'm clean outta 'likes' but I like this post - a lot

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

Edited July 9, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[bunglebag]

Court may order retesting of DNA in Koh Tao double murder case

The Nation

KOH SAMUI: -- A court looks set to commission the Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) to retest the DNA of two Myanmar nationals who are facing charges of killing two British backpackers in Thailand last year, an informed source disclosed yesterday.

The order is expected to be issued today, according to the source.

The move, if made, promises to clear doubts as to whether migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun, both 22, were made scapegoats. Both suspects have pleaded not guilty in court, saying that they initially confessed under pressure from police.

So far, police and public prosecutors have cited DNA results as incriminating evidence against them, prompting their defence team to request fresh DNA tests.

CIFS chief Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said a retesting of DNA was not common in foreign countries. So far, she said the retesting was quite rare in Thailand and hence she was not sure about the evidence storage process.

"We will have to see the conditions of the evidence first," she said.

The two Myanmar nationals are standing trial for the murder of 24 yearold David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Koh Tao in September.

Much of the defence's case revolves around a bid to retest key forensic evidence, including the DNA on cigarettes and a condom found near the crime scene as well as DNA swabs taken from the victims' bodies.

"The DNA samples taken from the bodies are not my responsibility. They are in Bangkok," Police LtColonel Somsak Nurod added.

The opening day of the trial on Wednesday saw the defence attack the police for failing to cordon off the crime scene quickly enough.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Court-may-order-retesting-of-DNA-in-Koh-Tao-double-30264137.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-10

Needs INDEPENDENT retesting

[smokie36]

The only certainty in this case so far is that the prosecution have failed to prove anything and the witnesses they have called so far have been utterly useless in every respect.

The circus rolls on....

[rufanuf]

27 Pages of commentary and a lot of arguments. But some really basic questions not being debated. Call me old fashion, but just look at these young lads faces, do they look like the faces of a couple of cold blooded murderers to you?

Why are they being defended by an international defence team? Of course it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense these guys are be fitted up to save Thailand's face. They are completely innocent and outside parties know it, and are trying to save them and justice process.

Its so sad this side of Thailand's culture. When are they going to wake up to themselves and start educating their children differently, so we have decent respectable upstanding Thai Adults? It borders on insanity the way this culture behaves sometimes.

[bunglebag]

Too late to edit my INDEPENDENT testing post above now but what I meant was the problem if CIFS do it is that that is not very independent, and what will be tested?

The question mark for me in this scenario is the 'original' dna evidence retrieved and the fact that, in a country where corruption, power and influence is common, it could have been tampered with / substituted at any point over the last 9 months to point in a convenient direction etc?

Because the bodies were returned to the UK before the B2 were picked up (I believe?) testing against dna evidence retrieved from the bodies after they returned to UK would be the only tests I would fully trust myself.

One other thing is that even a positive dna match does not prove they committed the murders.


Have to hope truth prevails, whatever that may be.

Edited July 10, 2015 by bunglebag

[jaidam]

The silence from "perfect case" Prayuth and "richly rewarded" Somyot is absolutely deafening. Behind the scenes these 2 will be having a meltdown/hissy fit - the media blackout bears testament to this fact. Just for the record, the generals idea of a perfect case and mine are somewhat different.

[minikev]

The handwriting and ink looks the same to me. The language is standard Burmese. I don't think the signatures are the same. It looks like someone took statements from the two accused and then had them append their respective signatures. What all this means in the legal process - I have no idea.

The statements can be given verbally and written down by say a police officer and then signed to verify. The writing being the same is irrelevant.

[hobz]

Another BS headline from the media to get peoples backs up. There's a huge difference between being used up and being lost.

The guy said it was used up and for that reason it was lost.

The media grab the word LOST and jam it down people throats and get everyone crying frame up again......They have no interest in justice their only interest is selling papers

I agree and I disagree. Yes, the proper headline would have been LOST and USED UP.

If you read the article carefully you will notice that a piece of hair was actually LOST. While the rest of the evidence was "USED UP" .. Either way, the case is a farce.

Now justice in this case is at great danger, two innocent people could get a long jail sentence. Or two guilty people could go free. I don't know. But seems like the police in this case was incompetent about how they handled evidence, since the start, just look at how they let "random" islanders on the crime scene from the start.

Edited July 10, 2015 by hobz

[IslandLover]

Hmmmm

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

Yet another prejudicial statement from the Witheridge family. They mean of course, the B2.

[balo]

27 Pages of commentary and a lot of arguments. But some really basic questions not being debated. Call me old fashion, but just look at these young lads faces, do they look like the faces of a couple of cold blooded murderers to you?

Why are they being defended by an international defence team? Of course it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense these guys are be fitted up to save Thailand's face. They are completely innocent and outside parties know it, and are trying to save them and justice process.

Its so sad this side of Thailand's culture. When are they going to wake up to themselves and start educating their children differently, so we have decent respectable upstanding Thai Adults? It borders on insanity the way this culture behaves sometimes.

So you know how a killer looks like ? Even a person with the most innocent face can be a murderer. They are 23 years old and adults.

[Nigeone]

Hmmmm

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

Yet another prejudicial statement from the Witheridge family. They mean of course, the B2.

As I've said before I can't imagine how the family's will be feeling in court listening to all that's gone on..

But they also must see that the prosecution case up to now is completely flawed..I so feel for them however

[Emster23]

The (Not) Hang Over Part 3: Bangkok's lost him

[harrycallahan]

They could have done it and are being framed, quite possible in my mind. Force of habit is hard to break. OJ knows about that.

[thailandchilli]

So current state of play is that there maybe DNA evidence in Bangkok and if there is it needs to be checked to see if it can be retested.

• The hair found in Hannah's hand has been lost so no DNA possible there.
• Clear evidence that the supposed chain of command that keeps DNA and other evidence secure was compromised.
• The DNA on the cigarette butts is used up! So not possible according to the RTP to get DNA there. (I still don't understand that one, at what point did it get used up? Was it after the 250th test or the 300th test or just happens to be used up now because they say so?)
• The shopping trolley that they wheeled into the court on the first days hearing is missing items, the lead investigator said he was going to go back to Koh Tao to see if there was anymore there and then call the defense to let them know
• Threats made against a Sky News translator
• Andy Hall and the defense team being severely criticized outside the courtroom by senior RTP
• Senior RTP telling Andy Hall the strong defense team is disrespectful to the victims families

There's more but thats enough for now and this was just in the first 2 days.

Lets see what todays farce brings

[Manbing]

27 Pages of commentary and a lot of arguments. But some really basic questions not being debated. Call me old fashion, but just look at these young lads faces, do they look like the faces of a couple of cold blooded murderers to you?

Why are they being defended by an international defence team? Of course it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense these guys are be fitted up to save Thailand's face. They are completely innocent and outside parties know it, and are trying to save them and justice process.

Its so sad this side of Thailand's culture. When are they going to wake up to themselves and start educating their children differently, so we have decent respectable upstanding Thai Adults? It borders on insanity the way this culture behaves sometimes.

Excellent argument.

Screw science lets get back to Physiognomy.

Assessing character by appearance

The point is the science. And its shameful Thailand is going to operate by 'losing' crucial evidence.

Given the record to date. There is nothing stopping the police tainting to original crime scene evidence to ensure it matches the defendants profile.

After all they hold the evidence and in seems to be a game of winning against all odds, not ensuring a fair trail.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Manbing

[oneday]

This is all so very confusing. So they are making a decision about retesting DNA evidence...which evidence? The evidence that has been used up and/or the evidence that has been lost. Or are they talking about taking new samples from the defendants and comparing that against the used up or lost evidence?

It sure would be nice to see a list of all the evidence, especially the DNA evidence and each piece's exact status, but of course the prosecution or is it mafia doesn't want this trial to be open or reporting on.

All very confusing. In any Western country this ridiculous trial would have been dismissed. These poor parents will never know who killed their children.

[jaidam]

So current state of play is that there maybe DNA evidence in Bangkok and if there is it needs to be checked to see if it can be retested.

• The hair found in Hannah's hand has been lost so no DNA possible there.
• Clear evidence that the supposed chain of command that keeps DNA and other evidence secure was compromised.
• The DNA on the cigarette butts is used up! So not possible according to the RTP to get DNA there. (I still don't understand that one, at what point did it get used up? Was it after the 250th test or the 300th test or just happens to be used up now because they say so?)
• The shopping trolley that they wheeled into the court on the first days hearing is missing items, the lead investigator said he was going to go back to Koh Tao to see if there was anymore there and then call the defense to let them know
• Threats made against a Sky News translator
• Andy Hall and the defense team being severely criticized outside the courtroom by senior RTP
• Senior RTP telling Andy Hall the strong defense team is disrespectful to the victims families

There's more but thats enough for now and this was just in the first 2 days.

Lets see what todays farce brings

IIRC the significance of the hair found in Hannah's hand was that it was not black. The 2 Burmese on that evening both had black hair. You can see this on CCTV, so hardly surprising that this is "lost" at this stage is it?

[empireboy]

How does DNA in a murder trial get lost?

[bongoz]

Isn't it strange how there is a deafening silence from certain RTP apologists now that their beloved police "farce" has theoretically "blown it" by losing, yes LOSING, key evidence in an incredibly important case?

At the risk of being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" by you know who, I tend to agree with a previous poster who made the quite feasible suggestion that the prosecution have found out or suspect that the UK police have evidence that contradicts their version of the results of the DNA tests. The said evidence mysteriously becomes "lost", a lowly cop will take the can and get moved to an inactive post, and the judge(s) will have to take the written statements of the forensic specialists that the DNA tested matched that of the accused.But without the evidence, does that become "hearsay"?

Wouldn't it be ironic if the defense were just 'bluffing' about the UK inconsistencies.

After all they haven't stated any specific details about what they have - fight fire with fire...

[mmh8]

apparently it got mixed up with the shopping, the wife put in the fridge with the dairy products, but no one has seen it since. also possibility that somjai will not be getting his birhtday gift this year, one guitar apparently lost in transit